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Re: [AtkinBoats] How To Build A Wooden Boat

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  • Giuliano Girometta
    Congratulations, Very nice work.   Hi, I am Giuliano, I am following this group for a couple of months and this is my first post. I am planning to start
    Message 1 of 22 , Jun 30, 2008
      Congratulations,
      Very nice work.
       
      Hi, I am Giuliano, I am following this group for a couple of months and this is my first post.
      I am planning to start building the "Little Hughey" shortly.
      I am located in Nederland TX and will be glad to meet with other wooden boat amateurs in S.E. Texas.
       
      Giuliano Girometta 

      --- On Mon, 6/30/08, John Kohnen <jkohnen@...> wrote:

      From: John Kohnen <jkohnen@...>
      Subject: [AtkinBoats] How To Build A Wooden Boat
      To: "Atkin Boats" <AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com>
      Date: Monday, June 30, 2008, 4:46 AM

      David Clemmer has created an excellent photo essay of the building of a
      Vintage:

      http://tinyurl.com/6y8hee

      They're doing it Right!

      --
      John <jkohnen@...>
      School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole span of
      human existence . They are full of dull, unintelligible tasks,
      new and unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of common sense
      and common decency. <H. L. Mencken>

      ------------------------------------

      No flaming, cursing, politics, religion or public mopery. Please be polite.

      If you set out to build an Atkin boat, please do not modify the plans. If you
      stray from the plans you do so at your own risk and Atkin & Co. will take
      no responsibility for the performance of the resulting boat.

      The current Atkin boat plans catalog is online at
      <http://www.atkinboatplans.com/>

      Yahoo! Groups Links






      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • javadave2
      Thanks John! We plan to have her in the water for rowing within a week, hopefully making the tail end of the Lake Union Wooden Boat Festival. We should have
      Message 2 of 22 , Jul 1, 2008
        Thanks John! We plan to have her in the water for rowing within a
        week, hopefully making the tail end of the Lake Union Wooden Boat
        Festival. We should have the hand sewn Egyptian Cotton sprits'l ready
        sometime in August, so she'll be in the Port Townsend Wooden Boat
        Festival with the full rig.

        Dave

        --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jkohnen@...> wrote:
        >
        > David Clemmer has created an excellent photo essay of the building of
        a
        > Vintage:
        >
        > http://tinyurl.com/6y8hee
        >
        > They're doing it Right!
        >
        > --
        > John <jkohnen@...>
        > School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole span of
        > human existence . They are full of dull, unintelligible tasks,
        > new and unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of common sense
        > and common decency. <H. L. Mencken>
        >
      • hotwizard44
        ... body plan ? ... a
        Message 3 of 22 , Jul 3, 2008
          --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jkohnen@...> wrote:
          >There are many things I don't know about lofting. What's a 'deducted
          body plan'?
          > David Clemmer has created an excellent photo essay of the building of
          a
          > Vintage:
          >
          > http://tinyurl.com/6y8hee
          >
          > They're doing it Right!
          >
          > --
          > John <jkohnen@...>
          > School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole span of
          > human existence . They are full of dull, unintelligible tasks,
          > new and unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of common sense
          > and common decency. <H. L. Mencken>
          >
        • John Kohnen
          What s your name hotwizard? Welcome aboard! The deducted body plan is what you ve got after you deduct the thickness of the planking. It s used to make the
          Message 4 of 22 , Jul 3, 2008
            What's your name hotwizard? Welcome aboard!

            The "deducted body plan" is what you've got after you deduct the thickness
            of the planking. It's used to make the molds, or the frames if you're
            using sawn frames.

            On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 21:19:23 -0700, hotwizard44 wrote:

            > There are many things I don't know about lofting. What's a 'deducted
            > body plan'?
            >> David Clemmer has created an excellent photo essay of the building of
            > a
            >> Vintage:
            >>
            >> http://tinyurl.com/6y8hee
            >> ...

            --
            John <jkohnen@...>
            It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty
            gods or no God. <Thomas Jefferson>
          • John Kohnen
            I m looking forward to seeing Dave s Vintage at Port Townsend! Is it going to be on display, or are you just going to visit, Dave? We won t be having an Atkin
            Message 5 of 22 , Jul 3, 2008
              I'm looking forward to seeing Dave's Vintage at Port Townsend! Is it going
              to be on display, or are you just going to visit, Dave? We won't be having
              an Atkin booth at the festival, but I'll have my little, non-Atkin, camp
              cruiser on display down on the dock. All of you are invited to stop by and
              say, "hi."

              http://tinyurl.com/67z4cj

              On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 12:33:09 -0700, Dave C wrote:

              > Thanks John! We plan to have her in the water for rowing within a
              > week, hopefully making the tail end of the Lake Union Wooden Boat
              > Festival. We should have the hand sewn Egyptian Cotton sprits'l ready
              > sometime in August, so she'll be in the Port Townsend Wooden Boat
              > Festival with the full rig.

              --
              John <jkohnen@...>
              If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the
              guise of fighting a foreign enemy. <James Madison>
            • javadave2
              The body plan in the design plans for Vintage (as with most design plans) are drawn to the outside of the planking. On the loft, the deducted body plan are
              Message 6 of 22 , Jul 7, 2008
                The body plan in the design plans for Vintage (as with most design
                plans) are drawn to the outside of the planking. On the loft,
                the 'deducted body plan' are the additional lines drawn to the inside
                of the planking. The moulds are patterned from these lines. Are
                there other terms for 'deducted body plan'?
                Dave

                --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "hotwizard44" <hotwizard44@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jkohnen@> wrote:
                > >There are many things I don't know about lofting. What's
                a 'deducted
                > body plan'?
                > > David Clemmer has created an excellent photo essay of the
                building of
                > a
                > > Vintage:
                > >
                > > http://tinyurl.com/6y8hee
                > >
                > > They're doing it Right!
                > >
                > > --
                > > John <jkohnen@>
                > > School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole span of
                > > human existence . They are full of dull, unintelligible tasks,
                > > new and unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of common sense
                > > and common decency. <H. L. Mencken>
                > >
                >
              • javadave2
                That s the plan, to have the boat on display at Port Townsend! I ll also bring the mylar lofts (and other calculations and stability curves), and some old
                Message 7 of 22 , Jul 7, 2008
                  That's the plan, to have the boat on display at Port Townsend! I'll
                  also bring the mylar lofts (and other calculations and stability
                  curves), and some old related books. Hope to see you there!

                  We launched the Vintage yesterday morning and rowed her over for the
                  last day of the Lake Union Wooden Boat Festival. I also asked my gal
                  Marie to marry me on our maiden voyage. She said yes!

                  I'll have new pics posted late tonight.
                  Dave

                  --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jkohnen@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I'm looking forward to seeing Dave's Vintage at Port Townsend! Is
                  it going
                  > to be on display, or are you just going to visit, Dave? We won't be
                  having
                  > an Atkin booth at the festival, but I'll have my little, non-Atkin,
                  camp
                  > cruiser on display down on the dock. All of you are invited to stop
                  by and
                  > say, "hi."
                  >
                  > http://tinyurl.com/67z4cj
                  >
                  > On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 12:33:09 -0700, Dave C wrote:
                  >
                  > > Thanks John! We plan to have her in the water for rowing within a
                  > > week, hopefully making the tail end of the Lake Union Wooden Boat
                  > > Festival. We should have the hand sewn Egyptian Cotton sprits'l
                  ready
                  > > sometime in August, so she'll be in the Port Townsend Wooden Boat
                  > > Festival with the full rig.
                  >
                  > --
                  > John <jkohnen@...>
                  > If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the
                  > guise of fighting a foreign enemy. <James Madison>
                  >
                • Gordon
                  How much does it matter if you allow for the planking from the layout offset lines? I am building a small 9 6 Josh Slocum Spray and laying out my frames I
                  Message 8 of 22 , Jul 7, 2008
                    How much does it matter if you allow for the planking from the layout offset lines? I am building a small 9' 6" Josh Slocum Spray and laying out my frames I really don't care if the extra 1/2" planking or what ever I use makes my boat a little fatter.

                    Gordon


                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: javadave2
                    To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:38 AM
                    Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat


                    The body plan in the design plans for Vintage (as with most design
                    plans) are drawn to the outside of the planking. On the loft,
                    the 'deducted body plan' are the additional lines drawn to the inside
                    of the planking. The moulds are patterned from these lines. Are
                    there other terms for 'deducted body plan'?
                    Dave

                    --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "hotwizard44" <hotwizard44@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jkohnen@> wrote:
                    > >There are many things I don't know about lofting. What's
                    a 'deducted
                    > body plan'?
                    > > David Clemmer has created an excellent photo essay of the
                    building of
                    > a
                    > > Vintage:
                    > >
                    > > http://tinyurl.com/6y8hee
                    > >
                    > > They're doing it Right!
                    > >
                    > > --
                    > > John <jkohnen@>
                    > > School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole span of
                    > > human existence . They are full of dull, unintelligible tasks,
                    > > new and unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of common sense
                    > > and common decency. <H. L. Mencken>
                    > >
                    >





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Gordon
                    Well good luck on the getting married thing. I would rather have a new boat myself but I been married 40 yrs now and my wife has always let me get a new boat
                    Message 9 of 22 , Jul 7, 2008
                      Well good luck on the getting married thing. I would rather have a new boat myself but I been married 40 yrs now and my wife has always let me get a new boat when I wanted one. Hope your Marie is the same way.

                      Gordon


                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: javadave2
                      To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:45 AM
                      Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat


                      That's the plan, to have the boat on display at Port Townsend! I'll
                      also bring the mylar lofts (and other calculations and stability
                      curves), and some old related books. Hope to see you there!

                      We launched the Vintage yesterday morning and rowed her over for the
                      last day of the Lake Union Wooden Boat Festival. I also asked my gal
                      Marie to marry me on our maiden voyage. She said yes!

                      I'll have new pics posted late tonight.
                      Dave

                      --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jkohnen@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I'm looking forward to seeing Dave's Vintage at Port Townsend! Is
                      it going
                      > to be on display, or are you just going to visit, Dave? We won't be
                      having
                      > an Atkin booth at the festival, but I'll have my little, non-Atkin,
                      camp
                      > cruiser on display down on the dock. All of you are invited to stop
                      by and
                      > say, "hi."
                      >
                      > http://tinyurl.com/67z4cj
                      >
                      > On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 12:33:09 -0700, Dave C wrote:
                      >
                      > > Thanks John! We plan to have her in the water for rowing within a
                      > > week, hopefully making the tail end of the Lake Union Wooden Boat
                      > > Festival. We should have the hand sewn Egyptian Cotton sprits'l
                      ready
                      > > sometime in August, so she'll be in the Port Townsend Wooden Boat
                      > > Festival with the full rig.
                      >
                      > --
                      > John <jkohnen@...>
                      > If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the
                      > guise of fighting a foreign enemy. <James Madison>
                      >





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • javadave2
                      Well, it may not matter too much if you added an inch of beam, but you could run into a number of other issues without doing the deducted body plan. For
                      Message 10 of 22 , Jul 7, 2008
                        Well, it may not matter too much if you added an inch of beam, but
                        you could run into a number of other issues without doing the
                        deducted body plan. For example, if you built your moulds off of the
                        outside of the planking on the body plan, that would change your stem
                        and keel in profile, and the corresponding rabbet and bearding
                        lines. I don't know how much this would affect the Spray design. It
                        probably would be much easier to pattern the moulds off of the inside
                        of the planking than trying to make a bunch of adjustments to the
                        keel and stem, veering from the design. Or, if you've already built
                        your moulds, you could draw the inner plank lines on them and recut
                        to those lines.

                        Good luck, hope this helps!
                        Dave

                        --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > How much does it matter if you allow for the planking from the
                        layout offset lines? I am building a small 9' 6" Josh Slocum Spray
                        and laying out my frames I really don't care if the extra 1/2"
                        planking or what ever I use makes my boat a little fatter.
                        >
                        > Gordon
                        >
                        >
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: javadave2
                        > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:38 AM
                        > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                        >
                        >
                        > The body plan in the design plans for Vintage (as with most
                        design
                        > plans) are drawn to the outside of the planking. On the loft,
                        > the 'deducted body plan' are the additional lines drawn to the
                        inside
                        > of the planking. The moulds are patterned from these lines. Are
                        > there other terms for 'deducted body plan'?
                        > Dave
                        >
                        > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "hotwizard44" <hotwizard44@>
                        > wrote:
                        > >
                        > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jkohnen@>
                        wrote:
                        > > >There are many things I don't know about lofting. What's
                        > a 'deducted
                        > > body plan'?
                        > > > David Clemmer has created an excellent photo essay of the
                        > building of
                        > > a
                        > > > Vintage:
                        > > >
                        > > > http://tinyurl.com/6y8hee
                        > > >
                        > > > They're doing it Right!
                        > > >
                        > > > --
                        > > > John <jkohnen@>
                        > > > School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole span
                        of
                        > > > human existence . They are full of dull, unintelligible tasks,
                        > > > new and unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of common
                        sense
                        > > > and common decency. <H. L. Mencken>
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                      • Gordon
                        Not building a mold and all I have are lines in 1 = 1 ft scale that I am coming up with the lofting numbers from. Building it the old way plank on frame multi
                        Message 11 of 22 , Jul 7, 2008
                          Not building a mold and all I have are lines in 1" = 1 ft scale that I am coming up with the lofting numbers from. Building it the old way plank on frame multi chine. I could lay the frames out deducting for the plank thickness but my question was does it make a difference? To me it does not.

                          This is a one of a kind boat anyway and if you think real hard you can say it is a Mini Spray and I got the lines from Bruce Roberts Gratus, lines only and nothing else. Building to George Buehlers methods. You can see the project at www.aroundinten.org

                          Thanks for your comments

                          Gordon


                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: javadave2
                          To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 2:50 PM
                          Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat


                          Well, it may not matter too much if you added an inch of beam, but
                          you could run into a number of other issues without doing the
                          deducted body plan. For example, if you built your moulds off of the
                          outside of the planking on the body plan, that would change your stem
                          and keel in profile, and the corresponding rabbet and bearding
                          lines. I don't know how much this would affect the Spray design. It
                          probably would be much easier to pattern the moulds off of the inside
                          of the planking than trying to make a bunch of adjustments to the
                          keel and stem, veering from the design. Or, if you've already built
                          your moulds, you could draw the inner plank lines on them and recut
                          to those lines.

                          Good luck, hope this helps!
                          Dave

                          --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > How much does it matter if you allow for the planking from the
                          layout offset lines? I am building a small 9' 6" Josh Slocum Spray
                          and laying out my frames I really don't care if the extra 1/2"
                          planking or what ever I use makes my boat a little fatter.
                          >
                          > Gordon
                          >
                          >
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: javadave2
                          > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:38 AM
                          > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                          >
                          >
                          > The body plan in the design plans for Vintage (as with most
                          design
                          > plans) are drawn to the outside of the planking. On the loft,
                          > the 'deducted body plan' are the additional lines drawn to the
                          inside
                          > of the planking. The moulds are patterned from these lines. Are
                          > there other terms for 'deducted body plan'?
                          > Dave
                          >
                          > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "hotwizard44" <hotwizard44@>
                          > wrote:
                          > >
                          > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jkohnen@>
                          wrote:
                          > > >There are many things I don't know about lofting. What's
                          > a 'deducted
                          > > body plan'?
                          > > > David Clemmer has created an excellent photo essay of the
                          > building of
                          > > a
                          > > > Vintage:
                          > > >
                          > > > http://tinyurl.com/6y8hee
                          > > >
                          > > > They're doing it Right!
                          > > >
                          > > > --
                          > > > John <jkohnen@>
                          > > > School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole span
                          of
                          > > > human existence . They are full of dull, unintelligible tasks,
                          > > > new and unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of common
                          sense
                          > > > and common decency. <H. L. Mencken>
                          > > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >





                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • javadave2
                          Sounds like an interesting project on the famous boat, I ll keep an eye at the site, good luck! Dave ... that I am coming up with the lofting numbers from.
                          Message 12 of 22 , Jul 7, 2008
                            Sounds like an interesting project on the famous boat, I'll keep an
                            eye at the site, good luck!

                            Dave

                            --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Not building a mold and all I have are lines in 1" = 1 ft scale
                            that I am coming up with the lofting numbers from. Building it the
                            old way plank on frame multi chine. I could lay the frames out
                            deducting for the plank thickness but my question was does it make a
                            difference? To me it does not.
                            >
                            > This is a one of a kind boat anyway and if you think real hard you
                            can say it is a Mini Spray and I got the lines from Bruce Roberts
                            Gratus, lines only and nothing else. Building to George Buehlers
                            methods. You can see the project at www.aroundinten.org
                            >
                            > Thanks for your comments
                            >
                            > Gordon
                            >
                            >
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > From: javadave2
                            > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                            > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 2:50 PM
                            > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                            >
                            >
                            > Well, it may not matter too much if you added an inch of beam,
                            but
                            > you could run into a number of other issues without doing the
                            > deducted body plan. For example, if you built your moulds off of
                            the
                            > outside of the planking on the body plan, that would change your
                            stem
                            > and keel in profile, and the corresponding rabbet and bearding
                            > lines. I don't know how much this would affect the Spray design.
                            It
                            > probably would be much easier to pattern the moulds off of the
                            inside
                            > of the planking than trying to make a bunch of adjustments to the
                            > keel and stem, veering from the design. Or, if you've already
                            built
                            > your moulds, you could draw the inner plank lines on them and
                            recut
                            > to those lines.
                            >
                            > Good luck, hope this helps!
                            > Dave
                            >
                            > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > How much does it matter if you allow for the planking from the
                            > layout offset lines? I am building a small 9' 6" Josh Slocum
                            Spray
                            > and laying out my frames I really don't care if the extra 1/2"
                            > planking or what ever I use makes my boat a little fatter.
                            > >
                            > > Gordon
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > ----- Original Message -----
                            > > From: javadave2
                            > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                            > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:38 AM
                            > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > The body plan in the design plans for Vintage (as with most
                            > design
                            > > plans) are drawn to the outside of the planking. On the loft,
                            > > the 'deducted body plan' are the additional lines drawn to the
                            > inside
                            > > of the planking. The moulds are patterned from these lines. Are
                            > > there other terms for 'deducted body plan'?
                            > > Dave
                            > >
                            > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "hotwizard44" <hotwizard44@>
                            > > wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jkohnen@>
                            > wrote:
                            > > > >There are many things I don't know about lofting. What's
                            > > a 'deducted
                            > > > body plan'?
                            > > > > David Clemmer has created an excellent photo essay of the
                            > > building of
                            > > > a
                            > > > > Vintage:
                            > > > >
                            > > > > http://tinyurl.com/6y8hee
                            > > > >
                            > > > > They're doing it Right!
                            > > > >
                            > > > > --
                            > > > > John <jkohnen@>
                            > > > > School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole
                            span
                            > of
                            > > > > human existence . They are full of dull, unintelligible
                            tasks,
                            > > > > new and unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of common
                            > sense
                            > > > > and common decency. <H. L. Mencken>
                            > > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                          • gordocutter_1
                            What a tremendous challenge you re going into! I saw the page! I was always interested in the history of Slocum, and also about his boat, after all lots of
                            Message 13 of 22 , Jul 10, 2008
                              What a tremendous challenge you're going into! I saw the page! I was
                              always interested in the history of Slocum, and also about his boat,
                              after all lots of people like the Joshua lines, but I read something
                              disturbing about her, its seems that in strong conditions of weather
                              a boat of her lines and dimensions became unstable and can capsize
                              and not get right side up again, that was one of the explanation
                              about the disappear of Slocum in his last journey. This was a study
                              made by an naval arquitet I read in a article in the web, don't know
                              if it's true.

                              --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Not building a mold and all I have are lines in 1" = 1 ft scale
                              that I am coming up with the lofting numbers from. Building it the
                              old way plank on frame multi chine. I could lay the frames out
                              deducting for the plank thickness but my question was does it make a
                              difference? To me it does not.
                              >
                              > This is a one of a kind boat anyway and if you think real hard you
                              can say it is a Mini Spray and I got the lines from Bruce Roberts
                              Gratus, lines only and nothing else. Building to George Buehlers
                              methods. You can see the project at www.aroundinten.org
                              >
                              > Thanks for your comments
                              >
                              > Gordon
                              >
                              >
                              > ----- Original Message -----
                              > From: javadave2
                              > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                              > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 2:50 PM
                              > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                              >
                              >
                              > Well, it may not matter too much if you added an inch of beam,
                              but
                              > you could run into a number of other issues without doing the
                              > deducted body plan. For example, if you built your moulds off of
                              the
                              > outside of the planking on the body plan, that would change your
                              stem
                              > and keel in profile, and the corresponding rabbet and bearding
                              > lines. I don't know how much this would affect the Spray design.
                              It
                              > probably would be much easier to pattern the moulds off of the
                              inside
                              > of the planking than trying to make a bunch of adjustments to
                              the
                              > keel and stem, veering from the design. Or, if you've already
                              built
                              > your moulds, you could draw the inner plank lines on them and
                              recut
                              > to those lines.
                              >
                              > Good luck, hope this helps!
                              > Dave
                              >
                              > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > How much does it matter if you allow for the planking from the
                              > layout offset lines? I am building a small 9' 6" Josh Slocum
                              Spray
                              > and laying out my frames I really don't care if the extra 1/2"
                              > planking or what ever I use makes my boat a little fatter.
                              > >
                              > > Gordon
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > ----- Original Message -----
                              > > From: javadave2
                              > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                              > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:38 AM
                              > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > The body plan in the design plans for Vintage (as with most
                              > design
                              > > plans) are drawn to the outside of the planking. On the loft,
                              > > the 'deducted body plan' are the additional lines drawn to the
                              > inside
                              > > of the planking. The moulds are patterned from these lines.
                              Are
                              > > there other terms for 'deducted body plan'?
                              > > Dave
                              > >
                              > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "hotwizard44"
                              <hotwizard44@>
                              > > wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jkohnen@>
                              > wrote:
                              > > > >There are many things I don't know about lofting. What's
                              > > a 'deducted
                              > > > body plan'?
                              > > > > David Clemmer has created an excellent photo essay of the
                              > > building of
                              > > > a
                              > > > > Vintage:
                              > > > >
                              > > > > http://tinyurl.com/6y8hee
                              > > > >
                              > > > > They're doing it Right!
                              > > > >
                              > > > > --
                              > > > > John <jkohnen@>
                              > > > > School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole
                              span
                              > of
                              > > > > human existence . They are full of dull, unintelligible
                              tasks,
                              > > > > new and unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of common
                              > sense
                              > > > > and common decency. <H. L. Mencken>
                              > > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                            • Gordon
                              Always somebody like you around. Got to remember mine is only 9 ft long so it has 1/4th the same chances to capsize But it also has positive flotation and will
                              Message 14 of 22 , Jul 10, 2008
                                Always somebody like you around.
                                Got to remember mine is only 9 ft long so it
                                has 1/4th the same chances to capsize
                                But it also has positive flotation and will not sink

                                smile

                                So tell me what have you done in your life challanging?

                                I know it would be safer to just sit and watch TV or spend my time on forums
                                telling other people their boat is going to sink

                                Gordon



                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: gordocutter_1
                                To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 9:16 AM
                                Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat


                                What a tremendous challenge you're going into! I saw the page! I was
                                always interested in the history of Slocum, and also about his boat,
                                after all lots of people like the Joshua lines, but I read something
                                disturbing about her, its seems that in strong conditions of weather
                                a boat of her lines and dimensions became unstable and can capsize
                                and not get right side up again, that was one of the explanation
                                about the disappear of Slocum in his last journey. This was a study
                                made by an naval arquitet I read in a article in the web, don't know
                                if it's true.

                                --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Not building a mold and all I have are lines in 1" = 1 ft scale
                                that I am coming up with the lofting numbers from. Building it the
                                old way plank on frame multi chine. I could lay the frames out
                                deducting for the plank thickness but my question was does it make a
                                difference? To me it does not.
                                >
                                > This is a one of a kind boat anyway and if you think real hard you
                                can say it is a Mini Spray and I got the lines from Bruce Roberts
                                Gratus, lines only and nothing else. Building to George Buehlers
                                methods. You can see the project at www.aroundinten.org
                                >
                                > Thanks for your comments
                                >
                                > Gordon
                                >
                                >
                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                > From: javadave2
                                > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                                > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 2:50 PM
                                > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                                >
                                >
                                > Well, it may not matter too much if you added an inch of beam,
                                but
                                > you could run into a number of other issues without doing the
                                > deducted body plan. For example, if you built your moulds off of
                                the
                                > outside of the planking on the body plan, that would change your
                                stem
                                > and keel in profile, and the corresponding rabbet and bearding
                                > lines. I don't know how much this would affect the Spray design.
                                It
                                > probably would be much easier to pattern the moulds off of the
                                inside
                                > of the planking than trying to make a bunch of adjustments to
                                the
                                > keel and stem, veering from the design. Or, if you've already
                                built
                                > your moulds, you could draw the inner plank lines on them and
                                recut
                                > to those lines.
                                >
                                > Good luck, hope this helps!
                                > Dave
                                >
                                > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > How much does it matter if you allow for the planking from the
                                > layout offset lines? I am building a small 9' 6" Josh Slocum
                                Spray
                                > and laying out my frames I really don't care if the extra 1/2"
                                > planking or what ever I use makes my boat a little fatter.
                                > >
                                > > Gordon
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > ----- Original Message -----
                                > > From: javadave2
                                > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                                > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:38 AM
                                > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > The body plan in the design plans for Vintage (as with most
                                > design
                                > > plans) are drawn to the outside of the planking. On the loft,
                                > > the 'deducted body plan' are the additional lines drawn to the
                                > inside
                                > > of the planking. The moulds are patterned from these lines.
                                Are
                                > > there other terms for 'deducted body plan'?
                                > > Dave
                                > >
                                > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "hotwizard44"
                                <hotwizard44@>
                                > > wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jkohnen@>
                                > wrote:
                                > > > >There are many things I don't know about lofting. What's
                                > > a 'deducted
                                > > > body plan'?
                                > > > > David Clemmer has created an excellent photo essay of the
                                > > building of
                                > > > a
                                > > > > Vintage:
                                > > > >
                                > > > > http://tinyurl.com/6y8hee
                                > > > >
                                > > > > They're doing it Right!
                                > > > >
                                > > > > --
                                > > > > John <jkohnen@>
                                > > > > School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole
                                span
                                > of
                                > > > > human existence . They are full of dull, unintelligible
                                tasks,
                                > > > > new and unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of common
                                > sense
                                > > > > and common decency. <H. L. Mencken>
                                > > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >





                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • gordocutter_1
                                You understand everything wrong buddy! I m not criticizing you, or telling that your beautiful little boat will sink or capsize. You don t need to be
                                Message 15 of 22 , Jul 10, 2008
                                  You understand everything wrong buddy! I'm not criticizing you, or
                                  telling that your beautiful little boat will sink or capsize. You
                                  don't need to be sentimental, or rude. All I did was a comment about
                                  an article that I read about the boat of Slocum. In fact I was
                                  trying to demonstrate my respect for such a great challenge like
                                  yours. I'll not get into an discursion about what I do or not with
                                  my life, but I do have some years of sea and one thing I can tell
                                  you, you should keep that arrogance a little lower cause THAT can
                                  kill you or sink any boat. God luck with your project.

                                  Adaucto Mello



                                  --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Always somebody like you around.
                                  > Got to remember mine is only 9 ft long so it
                                  > has 1/4th the same chances to capsize
                                  > But it also has positive flotation and will not sink
                                  >
                                  > smile
                                  >
                                  > So tell me what have you done in your life challanging?
                                  >
                                  > I know it would be safer to just sit and watch TV or spend my time
                                  on forums
                                  > telling other people their boat is going to sink
                                  >
                                  > Gordon
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > From: gordocutter_1
                                  > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 9:16 AM
                                  > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > What a tremendous challenge you're going into! I saw the page! I
                                  was
                                  > always interested in the history of Slocum, and also about his
                                  boat,
                                  > after all lots of people like the Joshua lines, but I read
                                  something
                                  > disturbing about her, its seems that in strong conditions of
                                  weather
                                  > a boat of her lines and dimensions became unstable and can
                                  capsize
                                  > and not get right side up again, that was one of the explanation
                                  > about the disappear of Slocum in his last journey. This was a
                                  study
                                  > made by an naval arquitet I read in a article in the web, don't
                                  know
                                  > if it's true.
                                  >
                                  > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > Not building a mold and all I have are lines in 1" = 1 ft
                                  scale
                                  > that I am coming up with the lofting numbers from. Building it
                                  the
                                  > old way plank on frame multi chine. I could lay the frames out
                                  > deducting for the plank thickness but my question was does it
                                  make a
                                  > difference? To me it does not.
                                  > >
                                  > > This is a one of a kind boat anyway and if you think real hard
                                  you
                                  > can say it is a Mini Spray and I got the lines from Bruce
                                  Roberts
                                  > Gratus, lines only and nothing else. Building to George Buehlers
                                  > methods. You can see the project at www.aroundinten.org
                                  > >
                                  > > Thanks for your comments
                                  > >
                                  > > Gordon
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > > From: javadave2
                                  > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 2:50 PM
                                  > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Well, it may not matter too much if you added an inch of beam,
                                  > but
                                  > > you could run into a number of other issues without doing the
                                  > > deducted body plan. For example, if you built your moulds off
                                  of
                                  > the
                                  > > outside of the planking on the body plan, that would change
                                  your
                                  > stem
                                  > > and keel in profile, and the corresponding rabbet and bearding
                                  > > lines. I don't know how much this would affect the Spray
                                  design.
                                  > It
                                  > > probably would be much easier to pattern the moulds off of the
                                  > inside
                                  > > of the planking than trying to make a bunch of adjustments to
                                  > the
                                  > > keel and stem, veering from the design. Or, if you've already
                                  > built
                                  > > your moulds, you could draw the inner plank lines on them and
                                  > recut
                                  > > to those lines.
                                  > >
                                  > > Good luck, hope this helps!
                                  > > Dave
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > How much does it matter if you allow for the planking from
                                  the
                                  > > layout offset lines? I am building a small 9' 6" Josh Slocum
                                  > Spray
                                  > > and laying out my frames I really don't care if the extra 1/2"
                                  > > planking or what ever I use makes my boat a little fatter.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Gordon
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > > > From: javadave2
                                  > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:38 AM
                                  > > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > The body plan in the design plans for Vintage (as with most
                                  > > design
                                  > > > plans) are drawn to the outside of the planking. On the
                                  loft,
                                  > > > the 'deducted body plan' are the additional lines drawn to
                                  the
                                  > > inside
                                  > > > of the planking. The moulds are patterned from these lines.
                                  > Are
                                  > > > there other terms for 'deducted body plan'?
                                  > > > Dave
                                  > > >
                                  > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "hotwizard44"
                                  > <hotwizard44@>
                                  > > > wrote:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen"
                                  <jkohnen@>
                                  > > wrote:
                                  > > > > >There are many things I don't know about lofting. What's
                                  > > > a 'deducted
                                  > > > > body plan'?
                                  > > > > > David Clemmer has created an excellent photo essay of
                                  the
                                  > > > building of
                                  > > > > a
                                  > > > > > Vintage:
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/6y8hee
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > They're doing it Right!
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > --
                                  > > > > > John <jkohnen@>
                                  > > > > > School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole
                                  > span
                                  > > of
                                  > > > > > human existence . They are full of dull, unintelligible
                                  > tasks,
                                  > > > > > new and unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of
                                  common
                                  > > sense
                                  > > > > > and common decency. <H. L. Mencken>
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                • Gordon
                                  Arrogant I don t know, probably am. I was called a Prima Donna way back when I was Model Maker, Designer, and shop supervisor for Riggen MFG (Slot Cars). That
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Jul 10, 2008
                                    Arrogant

                                    I don't know, probably am.
                                    I was called a Prima Donna way back when I was Model Maker, Designer, and shop supervisor for Riggen MFG
                                    (Slot Cars). That was 30 yrs before they put me in the Slot Car Hall Of fame http://www.slotcars.org/hallofame/
                                    Less than 100 people made it. Have been sailing for over 23 yrs and owned 4 sailboats but learn each time I go out, Just like my Golf game.

                                    You have a nice day. It is raining cats and dogs now, Moonson Weather and my building table and Spray backbone are going through it's first storm right now.

                                    Gordon Brimhall


                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: gordocutter_1
                                    To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 6:11 PM
                                    Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat


                                    You understand everything wrong buddy! I'm not criticizing you, or
                                    telling that your beautiful little boat will sink or capsize. You
                                    don't need to be sentimental, or rude. All I did was a comment about
                                    an article that I read about the boat of Slocum. In fact I was
                                    trying to demonstrate my respect for such a great challenge like
                                    yours. I'll not get into an discursion about what I do or not with
                                    my life, but I do have some years of sea and one thing I can tell
                                    you, you should keep that arrogance a little lower cause THAT can
                                    kill you or sink any boat. God luck with your project.

                                    Adaucto Mello

                                    --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Always somebody like you around.
                                    > Got to remember mine is only 9 ft long so it
                                    > has 1/4th the same chances to capsize
                                    > But it also has positive flotation and will not sink
                                    >
                                    > smile
                                    >
                                    > So tell me what have you done in your life challanging?
                                    >
                                    > I know it would be safer to just sit and watch TV or spend my time
                                    on forums
                                    > telling other people their boat is going to sink
                                    >
                                    > Gordon
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > From: gordocutter_1
                                    > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 9:16 AM
                                    > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > What a tremendous challenge you're going into! I saw the page! I
                                    was
                                    > always interested in the history of Slocum, and also about his
                                    boat,
                                    > after all lots of people like the Joshua lines, but I read
                                    something
                                    > disturbing about her, its seems that in strong conditions of
                                    weather
                                    > a boat of her lines and dimensions became unstable and can
                                    capsize
                                    > and not get right side up again, that was one of the explanation
                                    > about the disappear of Slocum in his last journey. This was a
                                    study
                                    > made by an naval arquitet I read in a article in the web, don't
                                    know
                                    > if it's true.
                                    >
                                    > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > Not building a mold and all I have are lines in 1" = 1 ft
                                    scale
                                    > that I am coming up with the lofting numbers from. Building it
                                    the
                                    > old way plank on frame multi chine. I could lay the frames out
                                    > deducting for the plank thickness but my question was does it
                                    make a
                                    > difference? To me it does not.
                                    > >
                                    > > This is a one of a kind boat anyway and if you think real hard
                                    you
                                    > can say it is a Mini Spray and I got the lines from Bruce
                                    Roberts
                                    > Gratus, lines only and nothing else. Building to George Buehlers
                                    > methods. You can see the project at www.aroundinten.org
                                    > >
                                    > > Thanks for your comments
                                    > >
                                    > > Gordon
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > > From: javadave2
                                    > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 2:50 PM
                                    > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Well, it may not matter too much if you added an inch of beam,
                                    > but
                                    > > you could run into a number of other issues without doing the
                                    > > deducted body plan. For example, if you built your moulds off
                                    of
                                    > the
                                    > > outside of the planking on the body plan, that would change
                                    your
                                    > stem
                                    > > and keel in profile, and the corresponding rabbet and bearding
                                    > > lines. I don't know how much this would affect the Spray
                                    design.
                                    > It
                                    > > probably would be much easier to pattern the moulds off of the
                                    > inside
                                    > > of the planking than trying to make a bunch of adjustments to
                                    > the
                                    > > keel and stem, veering from the design. Or, if you've already
                                    > built
                                    > > your moulds, you could draw the inner plank lines on them and
                                    > recut
                                    > > to those lines.
                                    > >
                                    > > Good luck, hope this helps!
                                    > > Dave
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > How much does it matter if you allow for the planking from
                                    the
                                    > > layout offset lines? I am building a small 9' 6" Josh Slocum
                                    > Spray
                                    > > and laying out my frames I really don't care if the extra 1/2"
                                    > > planking or what ever I use makes my boat a little fatter.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Gordon
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > > > From: javadave2
                                    > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:38 AM
                                    > > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > The body plan in the design plans for Vintage (as with most
                                    > > design
                                    > > > plans) are drawn to the outside of the planking. On the
                                    loft,
                                    > > > the 'deducted body plan' are the additional lines drawn to
                                    the
                                    > > inside
                                    > > > of the planking. The moulds are patterned from these lines.
                                    > Are
                                    > > > there other terms for 'deducted body plan'?
                                    > > > Dave
                                    > > >
                                    > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "hotwizard44"
                                    > <hotwizard44@>
                                    > > > wrote:
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen"
                                    <jkohnen@>
                                    > > wrote:
                                    > > > > >There are many things I don't know about lofting. What's
                                    > > > a 'deducted
                                    > > > > body plan'?
                                    > > > > > David Clemmer has created an excellent photo essay of
                                    the
                                    > > > building of
                                    > > > > a
                                    > > > > > Vintage:
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/6y8hee
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > They're doing it Right!
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > --
                                    > > > > > John <jkohnen@>
                                    > > > > > School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole
                                    > span
                                    > > of
                                    > > > > > human existence . They are full of dull, unintelligible
                                    > tasks,
                                    > > > > > new and unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of
                                    common
                                    > > sense
                                    > > > > > and common decency. <H. L. Mencken>
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >





                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Mike Dolph
                                    I would discount arrogance as a cause of friction here Gordon; it really has a significantly different meaning and measure for Gordo. He s a Brazilian who s
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Jul 11, 2008
                                      I would discount arrogance as a cause of friction here Gordon; it
                                      really has a significantly different meaning and measure for Gordo.
                                      He's a Brazilian who's native language is Portuguese. There is plenty
                                      of arrogance here and there but there it's meaning makes his advice
                                      more like a fatherly admonition than a cutdown.

                                      Gordo is in the planning stages of building a traditional Atkin's
                                      sloop; like translating white oak into a locally obtainable wood
                                      useful for steam bending or to balance that strip planking over
                                      laminated frames in locally obtainable woods.

                                      I give him extra credit for reaching over thousands of miles and a
                                      whole culture to glean what he needs from forums like this. He's just
                                      trying to be friendly and learn, he's not trying to make trouble.
                                      He's also here for on topic reasons since his project is an Atkins design.

                                      Mike Dolph

                                      --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Arrogant
                                      >
                                      > I don't know, probably am.
                                      > I was called a Prima Donna way back when I was Model Maker,
                                      Designer, and shop supervisor for Riggen MFG
                                      > (Slot Cars). That was 30 yrs before they put me in the Slot Car Hall
                                      Of fame http://www.slotcars.org/hallofame/
                                      > Less than 100 people made it. Have been sailing for over 23 yrs and
                                      owned 4 sailboats but learn each time I go out, Just like my Golf game.
                                      >
                                      > You have a nice day. It is raining cats and dogs now, Moonson
                                      Weather and my building table and Spray backbone are going through
                                      it's first storm right now.
                                      >
                                      > Gordon Brimhall
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > ----- Original Message -----
                                      > From: gordocutter_1
                                      > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 6:11 PM
                                      > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > You understand everything wrong buddy! I'm not criticizing you, or
                                      > telling that your beautiful little boat will sink or capsize. You
                                      > don't need to be sentimental, or rude. All I did was a comment about
                                      > an article that I read about the boat of Slocum. In fact I was
                                      > trying to demonstrate my respect for such a great challenge like
                                      > yours. I'll not get into an discursion about what I do or not with
                                      > my life, but I do have some years of sea and one thing I can tell
                                      > you, you should keep that arrogance a little lower cause THAT can
                                      > kill you or sink any boat. God luck with your project.
                                      >
                                      > Adaucto Mello
                                      >
                                      > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > Always somebody like you around.
                                      > > Got to remember mine is only 9 ft long so it
                                      > > has 1/4th the same chances to capsize
                                      > > But it also has positive flotation and will not sink
                                      > >
                                      > > smile
                                      > >
                                      > > So tell me what have you done in your life challanging?
                                      > >
                                      > > I know it would be safer to just sit and watch TV or spend my time
                                      > on forums
                                      > > telling other people their boat is going to sink
                                      > >
                                      > > Gordon
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > ----- Original Message -----
                                      > > From: gordocutter_1
                                      > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 9:16 AM
                                      > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > What a tremendous challenge you're going into! I saw the page! I
                                      > was
                                      > > always interested in the history of Slocum, and also about his
                                      > boat,
                                      > > after all lots of people like the Joshua lines, but I read
                                      > something
                                      > > disturbing about her, its seems that in strong conditions of
                                      > weather
                                      > > a boat of her lines and dimensions became unstable and can
                                      > capsize
                                      > > and not get right side up again, that was one of the explanation
                                      > > about the disappear of Slocum in his last journey. This was a
                                      > study
                                      > > made by an naval arquitet I read in a article in the web, don't
                                      > know
                                      > > if it's true.
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Not building a mold and all I have are lines in 1" = 1 ft
                                      > scale
                                      > > that I am coming up with the lofting numbers from. Building it
                                      > the
                                      > > old way plank on frame multi chine. I could lay the frames out
                                      > > deducting for the plank thickness but my question was does it
                                      > make a
                                      > > difference? To me it does not.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > This is a one of a kind boat anyway and if you think real hard
                                      > you
                                      > > can say it is a Mini Spray and I got the lines from Bruce
                                      > Roberts
                                      > > Gratus, lines only and nothing else. Building to George Buehlers
                                      > > methods. You can see the project at www.aroundinten.org
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Thanks for your comments
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Gordon
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                      > > > From: javadave2
                                      > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 2:50 PM
                                      > > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Well, it may not matter too much if you added an inch of beam,
                                      > > but
                                      > > > you could run into a number of other issues without doing the
                                      > > > deducted body plan. For example, if you built your moulds off
                                      > of
                                      > > the
                                      > > > outside of the planking on the body plan, that would change
                                      > your
                                      > > stem
                                      > > > and keel in profile, and the corresponding rabbet and bearding
                                      > > > lines. I don't know how much this would affect the Spray
                                      > design.
                                      > > It
                                      > > > probably would be much easier to pattern the moulds off of the
                                      > > inside
                                      > > > of the planking than trying to make a bunch of adjustments to
                                      > > the
                                      > > > keel and stem, veering from the design. Or, if you've already
                                      > > built
                                      > > > your moulds, you could draw the inner plank lines on them and
                                      > > recut
                                      > > > to those lines.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Good luck, hope this helps!
                                      > > > Dave
                                      > > >
                                      > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > How much does it matter if you allow for the planking from
                                      > the
                                      > > > layout offset lines? I am building a small 9' 6" Josh Slocum
                                      > > Spray
                                      > > > and laying out my frames I really don't care if the extra 1/2"
                                      > > > planking or what ever I use makes my boat a little fatter.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Gordon
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                      > > > > From: javadave2
                                      > > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:38 AM
                                      > > > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > The body plan in the design plans for Vintage (as with most
                                      > > > design
                                      > > > > plans) are drawn to the outside of the planking. On the
                                      > loft,
                                      > > > > the 'deducted body plan' are the additional lines drawn to
                                      > the
                                      > > > inside
                                      > > > > of the planking. The moulds are patterned from these lines.
                                      > > Are
                                      > > > > there other terms for 'deducted body plan'?
                                      > > > > Dave
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "hotwizard44"
                                      > > <hotwizard44@>
                                      > > > > wrote:
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen"
                                      > <jkohnen@>
                                      > > > wrote:
                                      > > > > > >There are many things I don't know about lofting. What's
                                      > > > > a 'deducted
                                      > > > > > body plan'?
                                      > > > > > > David Clemmer has created an excellent photo essay of
                                      > the
                                      > > > > building of
                                      > > > > > a
                                      > > > > > > Vintage:
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/6y8hee
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > They're doing it Right!
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > --
                                      > > > > > > John <jkohnen@>
                                      > > > > > > School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole
                                      > > span
                                      > > > of
                                      > > > > > > human existence . They are full of dull, unintelligible
                                      > > tasks,
                                      > > > > > > new and unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of
                                      > common
                                      > > > sense
                                      > > > > > > and common decency. <H. L. Mencken>
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      > > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >
                                    • Gordon
                                      That is OK I am here for the next build of either a Geroge Buehlers heavy 29 to 33 ft or a Atkins design same thing for when I try for the Oldest ATW record if
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Jul 11, 2008
                                        That is OK
                                        I am here for the next build of either a Geroge Buehlers heavy 29 to 33 ft or a Atkins design same thing for when I try for the Oldest ATW record if I even live to be 81 yrs old. But that gives me 14 years in planning and building. Some will say that is a pipe dream but my who life has been one Dream after another. I have worked hard all my life making my dreams come true like many others I think. Even going to college later after I was married with 3 kids and holding down a full time job as a machinist at McDonald Douglas Aircraft and only getting a few hrs sleep was not easy but it had to be done or my future would have not been as good as it has.

                                        If I had room I would quote some of tristan Jones writings about having dreams, I saved all his books for last and they are good. "Ice" especially. I have read probably every cruising book available over the past 25 yrs, many before I ever bought my first sailboat. My insperation was Tania Aebi and now I share emails with her 20 yrs after she sailed around the world as a young 18 yrs old.

                                        Gordon

                                        Always a Dream


                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: Mike Dolph
                                        To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 8:42 AM
                                        Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat


                                        I would discount arrogance as a cause of friction here Gordon; it
                                        really has a significantly different meaning and measure for Gordo.
                                        He's a Brazilian who's native language is Portuguese. There is plenty
                                        of arrogance here and there but there it's meaning makes his advice
                                        more like a fatherly admonition than a cutdown.

                                        Gordo is in the planning stages of building a traditional Atkin's
                                        sloop; like translating white oak into a locally obtainable wood
                                        useful for steam bending or to balance that strip planking over
                                        laminated frames in locally obtainable woods.

                                        I give him extra credit for reaching over thousands of miles and a
                                        whole culture to glean what he needs from forums like this. He's just
                                        trying to be friendly and learn, he's not trying to make trouble.
                                        He's also here for on topic reasons since his project is an Atkins design.

                                        Mike Dolph

                                        --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Arrogant
                                        >
                                        > I don't know, probably am.
                                        > I was called a Prima Donna way back when I was Model Maker,
                                        Designer, and shop supervisor for Riggen MFG
                                        > (Slot Cars). That was 30 yrs before they put me in the Slot Car Hall
                                        Of fame http://www.slotcars.org/hallofame/
                                        > Less than 100 people made it. Have been sailing for over 23 yrs and
                                        owned 4 sailboats but learn each time I go out, Just like my Golf game.
                                        >
                                        > You have a nice day. It is raining cats and dogs now, Moonson
                                        Weather and my building table and Spray backbone are going through
                                        it's first storm right now.
                                        >
                                        > Gordon Brimhall
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > ----- Original Message -----
                                        > From: gordocutter_1
                                        > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 6:11 PM
                                        > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > You understand everything wrong buddy! I'm not criticizing you, or
                                        > telling that your beautiful little boat will sink or capsize. You
                                        > don't need to be sentimental, or rude. All I did was a comment about
                                        > an article that I read about the boat of Slocum. In fact I was
                                        > trying to demonstrate my respect for such a great challenge like
                                        > yours. I'll not get into an discursion about what I do or not with
                                        > my life, but I do have some years of sea and one thing I can tell
                                        > you, you should keep that arrogance a little lower cause THAT can
                                        > kill you or sink any boat. God luck with your project.
                                        >
                                        > Adaucto Mello
                                        >
                                        > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > Always somebody like you around.
                                        > > Got to remember mine is only 9 ft long so it
                                        > > has 1/4th the same chances to capsize
                                        > > But it also has positive flotation and will not sink
                                        > >
                                        > > smile
                                        > >
                                        > > So tell me what have you done in your life challanging?
                                        > >
                                        > > I know it would be safer to just sit and watch TV or spend my time
                                        > on forums
                                        > > telling other people their boat is going to sink
                                        > >
                                        > > Gordon
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > ----- Original Message -----
                                        > > From: gordocutter_1
                                        > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                                        > > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 9:16 AM
                                        > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > What a tremendous challenge you're going into! I saw the page! I
                                        > was
                                        > > always interested in the history of Slocum, and also about his
                                        > boat,
                                        > > after all lots of people like the Joshua lines, but I read
                                        > something
                                        > > disturbing about her, its seems that in strong conditions of
                                        > weather
                                        > > a boat of her lines and dimensions became unstable and can
                                        > capsize
                                        > > and not get right side up again, that was one of the explanation
                                        > > about the disappear of Slocum in his last journey. This was a
                                        > study
                                        > > made by an naval arquitet I read in a article in the web, don't
                                        > know
                                        > > if it's true.
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Not building a mold and all I have are lines in 1" = 1 ft
                                        > scale
                                        > > that I am coming up with the lofting numbers from. Building it
                                        > the
                                        > > old way plank on frame multi chine. I could lay the frames out
                                        > > deducting for the plank thickness but my question was does it
                                        > make a
                                        > > difference? To me it does not.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > This is a one of a kind boat anyway and if you think real hard
                                        > you
                                        > > can say it is a Mini Spray and I got the lines from Bruce
                                        > Roberts
                                        > > Gratus, lines only and nothing else. Building to George Buehlers
                                        > > methods. You can see the project at www.aroundinten.org
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Thanks for your comments
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Gordon
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                        > > > From: javadave2
                                        > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                                        > > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 2:50 PM
                                        > > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Well, it may not matter too much if you added an inch of beam,
                                        > > but
                                        > > > you could run into a number of other issues without doing the
                                        > > > deducted body plan. For example, if you built your moulds off
                                        > of
                                        > > the
                                        > > > outside of the planking on the body plan, that would change
                                        > your
                                        > > stem
                                        > > > and keel in profile, and the corresponding rabbet and bearding
                                        > > > lines. I don't know how much this would affect the Spray
                                        > design.
                                        > > It
                                        > > > probably would be much easier to pattern the moulds off of the
                                        > > inside
                                        > > > of the planking than trying to make a bunch of adjustments to
                                        > > the
                                        > > > keel and stem, veering from the design. Or, if you've already
                                        > > built
                                        > > > your moulds, you could draw the inner plank lines on them and
                                        > > recut
                                        > > > to those lines.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Good luck, hope this helps!
                                        > > > Dave
                                        > > >
                                        > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > How much does it matter if you allow for the planking from
                                        > the
                                        > > > layout offset lines? I am building a small 9' 6" Josh Slocum
                                        > > Spray
                                        > > > and laying out my frames I really don't care if the extra 1/2"
                                        > > > planking or what ever I use makes my boat a little fatter.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Gordon
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                        > > > > From: javadave2
                                        > > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                                        > > > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:38 AM
                                        > > > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > The body plan in the design plans for Vintage (as with most
                                        > > > design
                                        > > > > plans) are drawn to the outside of the planking. On the
                                        > loft,
                                        > > > > the 'deducted body plan' are the additional lines drawn to
                                        > the
                                        > > > inside
                                        > > > > of the planking. The moulds are patterned from these lines.
                                        > > Are
                                        > > > > there other terms for 'deducted body plan'?
                                        > > > > Dave
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "hotwizard44"
                                        > > <hotwizard44@>
                                        > > > > wrote:
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen"
                                        > <jkohnen@>
                                        > > > wrote:
                                        > > > > > >There are many things I don't know about lofting. What's
                                        > > > > a 'deducted
                                        > > > > > body plan'?
                                        > > > > > > David Clemmer has created an excellent photo essay of
                                        > the
                                        > > > > building of
                                        > > > > > a
                                        > > > > > > Vintage:
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/6y8hee
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > They're doing it Right!
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > --
                                        > > > > > > John <jkohnen@>
                                        > > > > > > School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole
                                        > > span
                                        > > > of
                                        > > > > > > human existence . They are full of dull, unintelligible
                                        > > tasks,
                                        > > > > > > new and unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of
                                        > common
                                        > > > sense
                                        > > > > > > and common decency. <H. L. Mencken>
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        > > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >





                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Alan Boman
                                        Remember:- You are not old until your dreams are replaced by regrets.... Alan ... From: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com] On
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Jul 11, 2008
                                          Remember:-



                                          You are not old until your dreams are replaced by regrets....





                                          Alan



                                          -----Original Message-----
                                          From: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com] On
                                          Behalf Of Gordon
                                          Sent: Saturday, 12 July 2008 1:34 AM
                                          To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: Re: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat



                                          That is OK
                                          I am here for the next build of either a Geroge Buehlers heavy 29 to 33 ft
                                          or a Atkins design same thing for when I try for the Oldest ATW record if I
                                          even live to be 81 yrs old. But that gives me 14 years in planning and
                                          building. Some will say that is a pipe dream but my who life has been one
                                          Dream after another. I have worked hard all my life making my dreams come
                                          true like many others I think. Even going to college later after I was
                                          married with 3 kids and holding down a full time job as a machinist at
                                          McDonald Douglas Aircraft and only getting a few hrs sleep was not easy but
                                          it had to be done or my future would have not been as good as it has.

                                          If I had room I would quote some of tristan Jones writings about having
                                          dreams, I saved all his books for last and they are good. "Ice" especially.
                                          I have read probably every cruising book available over the past 25 yrs,
                                          many before I ever bought my first sailboat. My insperation was Tania Aebi
                                          and now I share emails with her 20 yrs after she sailed around the world as
                                          a young 18 yrs old.

                                          Gordon

                                          Always a Dream

                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          From: Mike Dolph
                                          To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com> ups.com
                                          Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 8:42 AM
                                          Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat

                                          I would discount arrogance as a cause of friction here Gordon; it
                                          really has a significantly different meaning and measure for Gordo.
                                          He's a Brazilian who's native language is Portuguese. There is plenty
                                          of arrogance here and there but there it's meaning makes his advice
                                          more like a fatherly admonition than a cutdown.

                                          Gordo is in the planning stages of building a traditional Atkin's
                                          sloop; like translating white oak into a locally obtainable wood
                                          useful for steam bending or to balance that strip planking over
                                          laminated frames in locally obtainable woods.

                                          I give him extra credit for reaching over thousands of miles and a
                                          whole culture to glean what he needs from forums like this. He's just
                                          trying to be friendly and learn, he's not trying to make trouble.
                                          He's also here for on topic reasons since his project is an Atkins design.

                                          Mike Dolph

                                          --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogro <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com> ups.com,
                                          "Gordon" <gordon@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Arrogant
                                          >
                                          > I don't know, probably am.
                                          > I was called a Prima Donna way back when I was Model Maker,
                                          Designer, and shop supervisor for Riggen MFG
                                          > (Slot Cars). That was 30 yrs before they put me in the Slot Car Hall
                                          Of fame http://www.slotcars <http://www.slotcars.org/hallofame/>
                                          .org/hallofame/
                                          > Less than 100 people made it. Have been sailing for over 23 yrs and
                                          owned 4 sailboats but learn each time I go out, Just like my Golf game.
                                          >
                                          > You have a nice day. It is raining cats and dogs now, Moonson
                                          Weather and my building table and Spray backbone are going through
                                          it's first storm right now.
                                          >
                                          > Gordon Brimhall
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                          > From: gordocutter_1
                                          > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com> ups.com
                                          > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 6:11 PM
                                          > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > You understand everything wrong buddy! I'm not criticizing you, or
                                          > telling that your beautiful little boat will sink or capsize. You
                                          > don't need to be sentimental, or rude. All I did was a comment about
                                          > an article that I read about the boat of Slocum. In fact I was
                                          > trying to demonstrate my respect for such a great challenge like
                                          > yours. I'll not get into an discursion about what I do or not with
                                          > my life, but I do have some years of sea and one thing I can tell
                                          > you, you should keep that arrogance a little lower cause THAT can
                                          > kill you or sink any boat. God luck with your project.
                                          >
                                          > Adaucto Mello
                                          >
                                          > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogro <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com> ups.com,
                                          "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > Always somebody like you around.
                                          > > Got to remember mine is only 9 ft long so it
                                          > > has 1/4th the same chances to capsize
                                          > > But it also has positive flotation and will not sink
                                          > >
                                          > > smile
                                          > >
                                          > > So tell me what have you done in your life challanging?
                                          > >
                                          > > I know it would be safer to just sit and watch TV or spend my time
                                          > on forums
                                          > > telling other people their boat is going to sink
                                          > >
                                          > > Gordon
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > ----- Original Message -----
                                          > > From: gordocutter_1
                                          > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com> ups.com
                                          > > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 9:16 AM
                                          > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > What a tremendous challenge you're going into! I saw the page! I
                                          > was
                                          > > always interested in the history of Slocum, and also about his
                                          > boat,
                                          > > after all lots of people like the Joshua lines, but I read
                                          > something
                                          > > disturbing about her, its seems that in strong conditions of
                                          > weather
                                          > > a boat of her lines and dimensions became unstable and can
                                          > capsize
                                          > > and not get right side up again, that was one of the explanation
                                          > > about the disappear of Slocum in his last journey. This was a
                                          > study
                                          > > made by an naval arquitet I read in a article in the web, don't
                                          > know
                                          > > if it's true.
                                          > >
                                          > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogro <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com>
                                          ups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Not building a mold and all I have are lines in 1" = 1 ft
                                          > scale
                                          > > that I am coming up with the lofting numbers from. Building it
                                          > the
                                          > > old way plank on frame multi chine. I could lay the frames out
                                          > > deducting for the plank thickness but my question was does it
                                          > make a
                                          > > difference? To me it does not.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > This is a one of a kind boat anyway and if you think real hard
                                          > you
                                          > > can say it is a Mini Spray and I got the lines from Bruce
                                          > Roberts
                                          > > Gratus, lines only and nothing else. Building to George Buehlers
                                          > > methods. You can see the project at www.aroundinten.org
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Thanks for your comments
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Gordon
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                          > > > From: javadave2
                                          > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com> ups.com
                                          > > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 2:50 PM
                                          > > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Well, it may not matter too much if you added an inch of beam,
                                          > > but
                                          > > > you could run into a number of other issues without doing the
                                          > > > deducted body plan. For example, if you built your moulds off
                                          > of
                                          > > the
                                          > > > outside of the planking on the body plan, that would change
                                          > your
                                          > > stem
                                          > > > and keel in profile, and the corresponding rabbet and bearding
                                          > > > lines. I don't know how much this would affect the Spray
                                          > design.
                                          > > It
                                          > > > probably would be much easier to pattern the moulds off of the
                                          > > inside
                                          > > > of the planking than trying to make a bunch of adjustments to
                                          > > the
                                          > > > keel and stem, veering from the design. Or, if you've already
                                          > > built
                                          > > > your moulds, you could draw the inner plank lines on them and
                                          > > recut
                                          > > > to those lines.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Good luck, hope this helps!
                                          > > > Dave
                                          > > >
                                          > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogro <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com>
                                          ups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > How much does it matter if you allow for the planking from
                                          > the
                                          > > > layout offset lines? I am building a small 9' 6" Josh Slocum
                                          > > Spray
                                          > > > and laying out my frames I really don't care if the extra 1/2"
                                          > > > planking or what ever I use makes my boat a little fatter.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Gordon
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                          > > > > From: javadave2
                                          > > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com>
                                          ups.com
                                          > > > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:38 AM
                                          > > > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > The body plan in the design plans for Vintage (as with most
                                          > > > design
                                          > > > > plans) are drawn to the outside of the planking. On the
                                          > loft,
                                          > > > > the 'deducted body plan' are the additional lines drawn to
                                          > the
                                          > > > inside
                                          > > > > of the planking. The moulds are patterned from these lines.
                                          > > Are
                                          > > > > there other terms for 'deducted body plan'?
                                          > > > > Dave
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogro <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com>
                                          ups.com, "hotwizard44"
                                          > > <hotwizard44@>
                                          > > > > wrote:
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogro <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com>
                                          ups.com, "John Kohnen"
                                          > <jkohnen@>
                                          > > > wrote:
                                          > > > > > >There are many things I don't know about lofting. What's
                                          > > > > a 'deducted
                                          > > > > > body plan'?
                                          > > > > > > David Clemmer has created an excellent photo essay of
                                          > the
                                          > > > > building of
                                          > > > > > a
                                          > > > > > > Vintage:
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > http://tinyurl. <http://tinyurl.com/6y8hee> com/6y8hee
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > They're doing it Right!
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > --
                                          > > > > > > John <jkohnen@>
                                          > > > > > > School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole
                                          > > span
                                          > > > of
                                          > > > > > > human existence . They are full of dull, unintelligible
                                          > > tasks,
                                          > > > > > > new and unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of
                                          > common
                                          > > > sense
                                          > > > > > > and common decency. <H. L. Mencken>
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          > > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          >

                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • gordocutter_1
                                          Hello Mike!How are you? Thank you for the kindly words, its seems that you reach what I was trying to say, I don t know why I was misinterpreted by Gordon but
                                          Message 20 of 22 , Jul 13, 2008
                                            Hello Mike!How are you? Thank you for the kindly words, its seems
                                            that you reach what I was trying to say, I don't know why I was
                                            misinterpreted by Gordon but I'll sure be more careful for now on
                                            if I make any comment on the group.

                                            --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Dolph" <johndolph@...>
                                            wrote:
                                            >
                                            > I would discount arrogance as a cause of friction here Gordon; it
                                            > really has a significantly different meaning and measure for
                                            Gordo.
                                            > He's a Brazilian who's native language is Portuguese. There is
                                            plenty
                                            > of arrogance here and there but there it's meaning makes his advice
                                            > more like a fatherly admonition than a cutdown.
                                            >
                                            > Gordo is in the planning stages of building a traditional Atkin's
                                            > sloop; like translating white oak into a locally obtainable wood
                                            > useful for steam bending or to balance that strip planking over
                                            > laminated frames in locally obtainable woods.
                                            >
                                            > I give him extra credit for reaching over thousands of miles and a
                                            > whole culture to glean what he needs from forums like this. He's
                                            just
                                            > trying to be friendly and learn, he's not trying to make trouble.
                                            > He's also here for on topic reasons since his project is an Atkins
                                            design.
                                            >
                                            > Mike Dolph
                                            >
                                            > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > Arrogant
                                            > >
                                            > > I don't know, probably am.
                                            > > I was called a Prima Donna way back when I was Model Maker,
                                            > Designer, and shop supervisor for Riggen MFG
                                            > > (Slot Cars). That was 30 yrs before they put me in the Slot Car
                                            Hall
                                            > Of fame http://www.slotcars.org/hallofame/
                                            > > Less than 100 people made it. Have been sailing for over 23 yrs
                                            and
                                            > owned 4 sailboats but learn each time I go out, Just like my Golf
                                            game.
                                            > >
                                            > > You have a nice day. It is raining cats and dogs now, Moonson
                                            > Weather and my building table and Spray backbone are going through
                                            > it's first storm right now.
                                            > >
                                            > > Gordon Brimhall
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > ----- Original Message -----
                                            > > From: gordocutter_1
                                            > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                                            > > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 6:11 PM
                                            > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > You understand everything wrong buddy! I'm not criticizing
                                            you, or
                                            > > telling that your beautiful little boat will sink or capsize.
                                            You
                                            > > don't need to be sentimental, or rude. All I did was a comment
                                            about
                                            > > an article that I read about the boat of Slocum. In fact I was
                                            > > trying to demonstrate my respect for such a great challenge
                                            like
                                            > > yours. I'll not get into an discursion about what I do or not
                                            with
                                            > > my life, but I do have some years of sea and one thing I can
                                            tell
                                            > > you, you should keep that arrogance a little lower cause THAT
                                            can
                                            > > kill you or sink any boat. God luck with your project.
                                            > >
                                            > > Adaucto Mello
                                            > >
                                            > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Always somebody like you around.
                                            > > > Got to remember mine is only 9 ft long so it
                                            > > > has 1/4th the same chances to capsize
                                            > > > But it also has positive flotation and will not sink
                                            > > >
                                            > > > smile
                                            > > >
                                            > > > So tell me what have you done in your life challanging?
                                            > > >
                                            > > > I know it would be safer to just sit and watch TV or spend
                                            my time
                                            > > on forums
                                            > > > telling other people their boat is going to sink
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Gordon
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                            > > > From: gordocutter_1
                                            > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                                            > > > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 9:16 AM
                                            > > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > What a tremendous challenge you're going into! I saw the
                                            page! I
                                            > > was
                                            > > > always interested in the history of Slocum, and also about
                                            his
                                            > > boat,
                                            > > > after all lots of people like the Joshua lines, but I read
                                            > > something
                                            > > > disturbing about her, its seems that in strong conditions of
                                            > > weather
                                            > > > a boat of her lines and dimensions became unstable and can
                                            > > capsize
                                            > > > and not get right side up again, that was one of the
                                            explanation
                                            > > > about the disappear of Slocum in his last journey. This was
                                            a
                                            > > study
                                            > > > made by an naval arquitet I read in a article in the web,
                                            don't
                                            > > know
                                            > > > if it's true.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Not building a mold and all I have are lines in 1" = 1 ft
                                            > > scale
                                            > > > that I am coming up with the lofting numbers from. Building
                                            it
                                            > > the
                                            > > > old way plank on frame multi chine. I could lay the frames
                                            out
                                            > > > deducting for the plank thickness but my question was does
                                            it
                                            > > make a
                                            > > > difference? To me it does not.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > This is a one of a kind boat anyway and if you think real
                                            hard
                                            > > you
                                            > > > can say it is a Mini Spray and I got the lines from Bruce
                                            > > Roberts
                                            > > > Gratus, lines only and nothing else. Building to George
                                            Buehlers
                                            > > > methods. You can see the project at www.aroundinten.org
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Thanks for your comments
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Gordon
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                            > > > > From: javadave2
                                            > > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                                            > > > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 2:50 PM
                                            > > > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Well, it may not matter too much if you added an inch of
                                            beam,
                                            > > > but
                                            > > > > you could run into a number of other issues without doing
                                            the
                                            > > > > deducted body plan. For example, if you built your moulds
                                            off
                                            > > of
                                            > > > the
                                            > > > > outside of the planking on the body plan, that would
                                            change
                                            > > your
                                            > > > stem
                                            > > > > and keel in profile, and the corresponding rabbet and
                                            bearding
                                            > > > > lines. I don't know how much this would affect the Spray
                                            > > design.
                                            > > > It
                                            > > > > probably would be much easier to pattern the moulds off of
                                            the
                                            > > > inside
                                            > > > > of the planking than trying to make a bunch of adjustments
                                            to
                                            > > > the
                                            > > > > keel and stem, veering from the design. Or, if you've
                                            already
                                            > > > built
                                            > > > > your moulds, you could draw the inner plank lines on them
                                            and
                                            > > > recut
                                            > > > > to those lines.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Good luck, hope this helps!
                                            > > > > Dave
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@>
                                            wrote:
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > How much does it matter if you allow for the planking
                                            from
                                            > > the
                                            > > > > layout offset lines? I am building a small 9' 6" Josh
                                            Slocum
                                            > > > Spray
                                            > > > > and laying out my frames I really don't care if the extra
                                            1/2"
                                            > > > > planking or what ever I use makes my boat a little fatter.
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > Gordon
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                            > > > > > From: javadave2
                                            > > > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                                            > > > > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:38 AM
                                            > > > > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > The body plan in the design plans for Vintage (as with
                                            most
                                            > > > > design
                                            > > > > > plans) are drawn to the outside of the planking. On the
                                            > > loft,
                                            > > > > > the 'deducted body plan' are the additional lines drawn
                                            to
                                            > > the
                                            > > > > inside
                                            > > > > > of the planking. The moulds are patterned from these
                                            lines.
                                            > > > Are
                                            > > > > > there other terms for 'deducted body plan'?
                                            > > > > > Dave
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "hotwizard44"
                                            > > > <hotwizard44@>
                                            > > > > > wrote:
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen"
                                            > > <jkohnen@>
                                            > > > > wrote:
                                            > > > > > > >There are many things I don't know about lofting.
                                            What's
                                            > > > > > a 'deducted
                                            > > > > > > body plan'?
                                            > > > > > > > David Clemmer has created an excellent photo essay
                                            of
                                            > > the
                                            > > > > > building of
                                            > > > > > > a
                                            > > > > > > > Vintage:
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/6y8hee
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > They're doing it Right!
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > --
                                            > > > > > > > John <jkohnen@>
                                            > > > > > > > School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the
                                            whole
                                            > > > span
                                            > > > > of
                                            > > > > > > > human existence . They are full of dull,
                                            unintelligible
                                            > > > tasks,
                                            > > > > > > > new and unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of
                                            > > common
                                            > > > > sense
                                            > > > > > > > and common decency. <H. L. Mencken>
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            > > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            > > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            > >
                                            >
                                          • javadave2
                                            Hope to see you at the Port Townsend Wooden Boat festival! We just got the sail fitted yesterday and should have the Magic Wing there Friday morning:
                                            Message 21 of 22 , Sep 1, 2008
                                              Hope to see you at the Port Townsend Wooden Boat festival! We just
                                              got the sail fitted yesterday and should have the Magic Wing there
                                              Friday morning:

                                              http://www.woodenboat.org/boats/Boat_Detail.aspx?processID=561

                                              Pictures will be posted to the site next week.

                                              Dave

                                              --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jkohnen@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > David Clemmer has created an excellent photo essay of the building
                                              of a
                                              > Vintage:
                                              >
                                              > http://tinyurl.com/6y8hee
                                              >
                                              > They're doing it Right!
                                              >
                                              > --
                                              > John <jkohnen@...>
                                              > School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole span of
                                              > human existence . They are full of dull, unintelligible tasks,
                                              > new and unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of common sense
                                              > and common decency. <H. L. Mencken>
                                              >
                                            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.