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RE: [AtkinBoats] Alternative Building Methods

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  • Randy Bennell
    How about stitch and glue with a mig welder and some steel panels? Randy ... From: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
    Message 1 of 16 , Mar 31 8:36 PM
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      How about stitch and glue with a mig welder and some steel panels?

      Randy


      -----Original Message-----
      From: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com]On
      Behalf Of Alan Boman
      Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 10:20 PM
      To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [AtkinBoats] Alternative Building Methods


      I am about to build a River Belle and have been persuaded to use "Stitch
      and
      Glue" method with plywood instead of sawn frames & planks.

      Has anyone any thoughts or better still experience ?

      Alan

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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    • lon wells
      Frame less stitch and glue works well with smaller boats. Once a boat reaches the size of River Belle the hull loads and forces require the frames for the
      Message 2 of 16 , Apr 1, 2008
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        Frame less stitch and glue works well with smaller
        boats. Once a boat reaches the size of River Belle the
        hull loads and forces require the frames for the
        structural integrity. Your plywood sections need to be
        supported.

        The other problem is the twist and distortion of the
        plywood required on the mold lines of a Seabright
        skiffs hull would be hard if not impossible to hold
        with stitch and glue.
        Lon

        --- Alan Boman <alan@...> wrote:

        > I am about to build a River Belle and have been
        > persuaded to use "Stitch and
        > Glue" method with plywood instead of sawn frames &
        > planks.
        >
        >
        >
        > Has anyone any thoughts or better still experience ?
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Alan
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been
        > removed]
        >
        >




        ____________________________________________________________________________________
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      • George C
        Alan, Taking a design like the River Belle and converting to stitch and glue will require a sizeable amount of engineering, especially a 35 boat with a
        Message 3 of 16 , Apr 1, 2008
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          Alan,

          Taking a design like the River Belle and converting to stitch and glue will require a sizeable amount of engineering, especially a 35' boat with a Seabright Skiff type hull. What type of hull planking does the plans specify: material, thickness?

          George


          ----- Original Message ----
          From: Alan Boman <alan@...>
          To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 8:20:23 PM
          Subject: [AtkinBoats] Alternative Building Methods

          I am about to build a River Belle and have been persuaded to use "Stitch and
          Glue" method with plywood instead of sawn frames & planks.

          Has anyone any thoughts or better still experience ?

          Alan

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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        • Alan Boman
          George, The original planking specs are Double Diagonal White Cedar, inside 3/8 and outside 7/16 . We are proposing double diagonal 12mm marine ply. The
          Message 4 of 16 , Apr 1, 2008
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            George,



            The original planking specs are Double Diagonal White Cedar, inside 3/8" and
            outside 7/16". We are proposing double diagonal 12mm marine ply.



            The bottom is specified as 1 3/4" White Oak, we are proposing double 19mm
            marine ply.



            The lower Skiff part of the hull will be made separately on moulds, with the
            fore and aft sections cold moulded as appropriate, then "stitched & glassed"
            into the remainder of the hull.



            The hull will be made on chipboard moulds the same shape and spacing as the
            original frames and, once turned over, internal plywood bulkheads lifted
            from the lofting and installed to suit the interior layout, (which is yet to
            be determined).



            Well, that's the plan at least... What do you think ?





            Alan



            -----Original Message-----
            From: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com] On
            Behalf Of George C
            Sent: Wednesday, 2 April 2008 8:44 AM
            To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [AtkinBoats] Alternative Building Methods



            Alan,

            Taking a design like the River Belle and converting to stitch and glue will
            require a sizeable amount of engineering, especially a 35' boat with a
            Seabright Skiff type hull. What type of hull planking does the plans
            specify: material, thickness?

            George

            ----- Original Message ----
            From: Alan Boman <alan@... <mailto:alan%40boman.com> >
            To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com> ups.com
            Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 8:20:23 PM
            Subject: [AtkinBoats] Alternative Building Methods

            I am about to build a River Belle and have been persuaded to use "Stitch and
            Glue" method with plywood instead of sawn frames & planks.

            Has anyone any thoughts or better still experience ?

            Alan

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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          • Mike Dolph
            I would say the important thing would be to see if you can build a model with thin cardboard to see if large pieces of plywood would take that twist in the
            Message 5 of 16 , Apr 1, 2008
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              I would say the important thing would be to see if you can build a
              model with thin cardboard to see if large pieces of plywood would take
              that twist in the bottom. Plywood planked on battens seems like it
              would be better; it's not like those chines would be hard to bend.

              Mike Dolph


              --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Alan Boman" <alan@...> wrote:
              >
              > I am about to build a River Belle and have been persuaded to use
              "Stitch and
              > Glue" method with plywood instead of sawn frames & planks.
              >
              >
              >
              > Has anyone any thoughts or better still experience ?
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Alan
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • Sal's Dad
              Have you talked with Alex Hadden? Dave Gerr? You should probably also track down the owner of Noble Cab, pick her brain, and try to bum a ride. This is a
              Message 6 of 16 , Apr 2, 2008
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                Have you talked with Alex Hadden? Dave Gerr? You should probably also track down the owner of Noble Cab, pick her brain, and try to bum a ride.

                This is a HUGE project - ask Alex. He won't tell you man-hours or dollars, but I will tell you Noble Cab was in his shop for a couple years, with 2-3 pros spending almost all of their time on her...

                Are you CERTAIN that the hull is "developable"? Don't take anybody's word for this, do some serious lofting/CAD, and build a large-scale model (say 50%) before you start. I had (am still having!) a helluva time with Rescue Minor.

                Check the archives here, on the WoodenBoat forum, and boatdesign.net.

                --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Alan Boman" <alan@...> wrote:
                >
                > I am about to build a River Belle and have been persuaded to use
                "Stitch and
                > Glue" method with plywood instead of sawn frames & planks.
                >
                >
                >
                > Has anyone any thoughts or better still experience ?
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Len Schmitt
                I am building a Spermacetti ( another Atkins Sea Bright skiff) using Reuel Parker s Cold molded Boatbuilding. I have nt yet figured out how to marry the hull
                Message 7 of 16 , Apr 4, 2008
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                  I am building a Spermacetti ( another Atkins Sea Bright skiff) using Reuel Parker's Cold molded Boatbuilding. I have'nt yet figured out how to marry the hull to the box keel yet, but with the warmer weather coming I hope to come up with something soon.

                  Len Schmitt

                  Alan Boman <alan@...> wrote:
                  I am about to build a River Belle and have been persuaded to use "Stitch and
                  Glue" method with plywood instead of sawn frames & planks.

                  Has anyone any thoughts or better still experience ?

                  Alan

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                  ---------------------------------
                  You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Kenneth Grome
                  If you re building them separately I might suggest 2-3 layers of biaxial tape embedded in epoxy ... a stitch and glue joint. This is how the tunnel stern
                  Message 8 of 16 , Apr 4, 2008
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                    If you're building them separately I might suggest 2-3 layers of biaxial
                    tape embedded in epoxy ... a stitch and glue joint. This is how the
                    tunnel stern panels are held together on my Tolman Seabright skiff.

                    Sincerely,
                    Ken Grome
                    Bagacay Boatworks
                    www.bagacayboatworks.com


                    > I am building a Spermacetti ( another Atkins Sea Bright skiff) using
                    > Reuel Parker's Cold molded Boatbuilding. I have'nt yet figured out
                    > how to marry the hull to the box keel yet, but with the warmer
                    > weather coming I hope to come up with something soon.
                  • Michael Walther
                    Hi Alan, Researching something else, I just now came across this @ Devlin s Boatbuilding: How to Build Any Boat the Stitch-and-Glue Way or @
                    Message 9 of 16 , Apr 13, 2008
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                      Hi Alan, Researching something else, I just now came across this @ Devlin's Boatbuilding: How to Build Any Boat the Stitch-and-Glue Way or @ http://www.devlinboat.com/ wish I'd thought of & found it sooner for you. You might say he the "King of Stitch and Glue". Good luck & don't forget to post progress reports with pix (I like pix:)) Thanks, Mike

                      --- On Tue, 4/1/08, Alan Boman <alan@...> wrote:
                      From: Alan Boman <alan@...>
                      Subject: [AtkinBoats] Alternative Building Methods
                      To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Tuesday, April 1, 2008, 3:20 AM











                      I am about to build a River Belle and have been persuaded to use "Stitch and

                      Glue" method with plywood instead of sawn frames & planks.



                      Has anyone any thoughts or better still experience ?



                      Alan



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


























                      __________________________________________________
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                    • Alan Boman
                      Hi Mike, Have located How to Build Any Boat the Stitch & Glue Way at Amazon and have ordered a copy - thanks for the info. Will let you (& group) know what
                      Message 10 of 16 , Apr 16, 2008
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                        Hi Mike,



                        Have located "How to Build Any Boat the Stitch & Glue Way" at Amazon and
                        have ordered a copy - thanks for the info.



                        Will let you (& group) know what it's like when I've had a read.



                        Cheers





                        Alan







                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com] On
                        Behalf Of Michael Walther
                        Sent: Sunday, 13 April 2008 7:15 PM
                        To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [AtkinBoats] Alternative Building Methods



                        Hi Alan, Researching something else, I just now came across this @ Devlin's
                        Boatbuilding: How to Build Any Boat the Stitch-and-Glue Way or @
                        http://www.devlinbo <http://www.devlinboat.com/> at.com/ wish I'd thought of
                        & found it sooner for you. You might say he the "King of Stitch and Glue".
                        Good luck & don't forget to post progress reports with pix (I like pix:))
                        Thanks, Mike

                        --- On Tue, 4/1/08, Alan Boman <alan@... <mailto:alan%40boman.com> >
                        wrote:
                        From: Alan Boman <alan@... <mailto:alan%40boman.com> >
                        Subject: [AtkinBoats] Alternative Building Methods
                        To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com> ups.com
                        Date: Tuesday, April 1, 2008, 3:20 AM

                        I am about to build a River Belle and have been persuaded to use "Stitch and

                        Glue" method with plywood instead of sawn frames & planks.

                        Has anyone any thoughts or better still experience ?

                        Alan

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











                        __________________________________________________
                        Do You Yahoo!?
                        Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                        http://mail. <http://mail.yahoo.com> yahoo.com





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Michael Walther
                        Hey Alan, Just found your message, glad it (info) might be helpful, hope so. Thanks for your response and hoping it s a good read & you enjoy it. I am looking
                        Message 11 of 16 , Apr 16, 2008
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                          Hey Alan, Just found your message, glad it (info) might be helpful, hope so. Thanks for your response and hoping it's a good read & you enjoy it. I am looking forward to your critique as well. Enjoy, Mike
                          Ps. This is my third attempt due to Yahoo screw ups. If this ends up as repeat, I apologize. And again, Enjoy, Mike

                          --- On Wed, 4/16/08, Alan Boman <alan@...> wrote:

                          > From: Alan Boman <alan@...>
                          > Subject: RE: [AtkinBoats] Alternative Building Methods
                          > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                          > Date: Wednesday, April 16, 2008, 8:49 AM
                          > Hi Mike,
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Have located "How to Build Any Boat the Stitch &
                          > Glue Way" at Amazon and
                          > have ordered a copy - thanks for the info.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Will let you (& group) know what it's like when
                          > I've had a read.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Cheers
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Alan
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > From: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                          > [mailto:AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com] On
                          > Behalf Of Michael Walther
                          > Sent: Sunday, 13 April 2008 7:15 PM
                          > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: Re: [AtkinBoats] Alternative Building Methods
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Hi Alan, Researching something else, I just now came across
                          > this @ Devlin's
                          > Boatbuilding: How to Build Any Boat the Stitch-and-Glue Way
                          > or @
                          > http://www.devlinbo <http://www.devlinboat.com/>
                          > at.com/ wish I'd thought of
                          > & found it sooner for you. You might say he the
                          > "King of Stitch and Glue".
                          > Good luck & don't forget to post progress reports
                          > with pix (I like pix:))
                          > Thanks, Mike
                          >
                          > --- On Tue, 4/1/08, Alan Boman <alan@...
                          > <mailto:alan%40boman.com> >
                          > wrote:
                          > From: Alan Boman <alan@...
                          > <mailto:alan%40boman.com> >
                          > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Alternative Building Methods
                          > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro
                          > <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com> ups.com
                          > Date: Tuesday, April 1, 2008, 3:20 AM
                          >
                          > I am about to build a River Belle and have been persuaded
                          > to use "Stitch and
                          >
                          > Glue" method with plywood instead of sawn frames &
                          > planks.
                          >
                          > Has anyone any thoughts or better still experience ?
                          >
                          > Alan
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
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                          > ------------------------------------
                          >
                          > No flaming, cursing, politics, religion or public mopery.
                          > Please be polite.
                          >
                          > If you set out to build an Atkin boat, please do not modify
                          > the plans. If you stray from the plans you do so at your own
                          > risk and Atkin & Co. will take no responsibility for the
                          > performance of the resulting boat.
                          >
                          > The current Atkin boat plans catalog is online at
                          > <http://www.atkinboatplans.com/>
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >

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                        • Alan Boman
                          Hi Guys, I m building a River Belle 36 Tunnel Stern river boat, and I just put the last piece of the bottom in place and thought you might like a photo.
                          Message 12 of 16 , Mar 20 12:41 AM
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Hi Guys,



                            I'm building a "River Belle" 36' Tunnel Stern river boat, and I just put the
                            last piece of the bottom in place and thought you might like a photo.



                            There is still a looooong way to go but it's nice to see a 65 year old
                            design coming into being; it's like a piece of history being resurrected
                            out of the mist. Mr William never intended this design for plywood & epoxy
                            (obviously), but the panels sit on the curves very nicely. A complement to
                            a lovely design.



                            There are more pictures and a log of construction to date at
                            "riverbelle.boman.biz" if you are interested in more detail.



                            Alan

                            South Australia



                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Sgt Sak
                            Outstanding!!!, that is the design I am interested in building. I am currently building the garage that I will build the boat in. I am really grateful for the
                            Message 13 of 16 , Mar 21 6:31 AM
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Outstanding!!!, that is the design I am interested in building. I am currently building the garage that I will build the boat in. I am really grateful for the pictures. I gives me an idea of the scale of the project.
                              Regards
                              Phil
                            • John Kohnen
                              Looks good Alan! I m pleased to see that on your Web page you mention that your boat was inspired by Wm. Atkin s design. I suppose this is a good time to
                              Message 14 of 16 , Mar 26 5:54 PM
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Looks good Alan! I'm pleased to see that on your Web page you mention that
                                your boat was "inspired by" Wm. Atkin's design. I suppose this is a good
                                time to remind people that when they alter an Atkin design, it becomes
                                their design, not an Atkin boat, and the Atkins can't be blamed for any
                                peculiarities in the performance. But your boat looks good so far, Alan,
                                and I hope it works out well for you.

                                On Fri, 20 Mar 2009 00:41:52 -0700, Alan B wrote:

                                > ...
                                > I'm building a "River Belle" 36' Tunnel Stern river boat, and I just put
                                > the
                                > last piece of the bottom in place and thought you might like a photo.
                                > ...
                                > There are more pictures and a log of construction to date at
                                > "riverbelle.boman.biz" if you are interested in more detail.

                                --
                                John <jkohnen@...>
                                The denunciation of the young is a necessary part of the hygiene
                                of older people, and greatly assists the circulation of the
                                blood. <Logan Pearsall Smith>
                              • Alan Boman
                                Hi John, Your absolutely right. Although the changes I have made to Mr William s design are very minor, they have been very carefully thought about and are my
                                Message 15 of 16 , Mar 26 6:56 PM
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Hi John,

                                  Your absolutely right. Although the changes I have made to Mr William's
                                  design are very minor, they have been very carefully thought about and are
                                  my responsibility.

                                  Below the waterline, the prop shaft angle is flattened a bit because I have
                                  moved the engine forward and I have also offset the engine to Starboard
                                  instead on Port because of its direction of rotation, and that's it.

                                  Above the chine, I have changed the flat planked sides to curved clinker
                                  with a raised sheer because it better suits frameless plywood construction.

                                  We'll see how it works out.

                                  Cheers

                                  Alan

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com] On
                                  Behalf Of John Kohnen
                                  Sent: Friday, 27 March 2009 11:25 AM
                                  To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [AtkinBoats] A "River Belle" starts to appear

                                  Looks good Alan! I'm pleased to see that on your Web page you mention that
                                  your boat was "inspired by" Wm. Atkin's design. I suppose this is a good
                                  time to remind people that when they alter an Atkin design, it becomes
                                  their design, not an Atkin boat, and the Atkins can't be blamed for any
                                  peculiarities in the performance. But your boat looks good so far, Alan,
                                  and I hope it works out well for you.

                                  On Fri, 20 Mar 2009 00:41:52 -0700, Alan B wrote:

                                  > ...
                                  > I'm building a "River Belle" 36' Tunnel Stern river boat, and I just put
                                  > the
                                  > last piece of the bottom in place and thought you might like a photo.
                                  > ...
                                  > There are more pictures and a log of construction to date at
                                  > "riverbelle.boman.biz" if you are interested in more detail.

                                  --
                                  John <jkohnen@...>
                                  The denunciation of the young is a necessary part of the hygiene
                                  of older people, and greatly assists the circulation of the
                                  blood. <Logan Pearsall Smith>


                                  ------------------------------------

                                  No flaming, cursing, politics, religion or public mopery. Please be polite.

                                  If you set out to build an Atkin boat, please do not modify the plans. If
                                  you stray from the plans you do so at your own risk and Atkin & Co. will
                                  take no responsibility for the performance of the resulting boat.

                                  The current Atkin boat plans catalog is online at
                                  <http://www.atkinboatplans.com/>

                                  Yahoo! Groups Links
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