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Newbie with questions on Hope

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  • gress.gag54
    Hi all, Long time lurker, just joined the group. I recenly recieved my plans for the cruiser Hope, and am having a problem with the table of offets. William
    Message 1 of 7 , Mar 18, 2008
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      Hi all,
      Long time lurker, just joined the group. I recenly recieved
      my plans for the cruiser Hope, and am having a problem with
      the table of offets. William states that the keel is to be
      w. oak 7/8" x 6" with a 1/2" x 8" batten. The offsets show the
      rabbet to be 1" higher than the bottom of the keel, this puts
      it 1/8" above the top of the keel and through the keel batten.
      Example: heights above base at sta. 5 keel 0-9-3/8", rabbet
      0-10-3/8". Am I misunderstanding this, or is something wrong?

      Greg Gress
    • Tom Hesselink
      Greg, my first thought is that 7/8 is way too thin for a keel on 26 cruiser. Are you sure that is correct? I am not familar with Atkin s scantlings on this
      Message 2 of 7 , Apr 13 1:56 PM
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        Greg, my first thought is that 7/8" is way too thin for a keel on 26'
        cruiser. Are you sure that is correct? I am not familar with
        Atkin's scantlings on this size of boat but I would guess somthing
        much more substainal would be in order. Nice boat by the way. Good
        luck.


        --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "gress.gag54" <gress.gag54@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Hi all,
        > Long time lurker, just joined the group. I recenly recieved
        > my plans for the cruiser Hope, and am having a problem with
        > the table of offets. William states that the keel is to be
        > w. oak 7/8" x 6" with a 1/2" x 8" batten. The offsets show the
        > rabbet to be 1" higher than the bottom of the keel, this puts
        > it 1/8" above the top of the keel and through the keel batten.
        > Example: heights above base at sta. 5 keel 0-9-3/8", rabbet
        > 0-10-3/8". Am I misunderstanding this, or is something wrong?
        >
        > Greg Gress
        >
      • Michael Walther
        Hi Greg & Group, First thing go to the web sight @ http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Cruisers/Hope.html and look at the drawings near bottom of the page.
        Message 3 of 7 , Apr 13 3:07 PM
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          Hi Greg & Group, First thing go to the web sight @ http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Cruisers/Hope.html and look at the drawings near bottom of the page. Notice there is almost no keel visable. Most keels are taller than they are wide, this keel is almost square. Also your description describes what is call a false keel. This means you attach the batten atop the keel and the edges of the planks, covering both. I remember when I was a kid that my parents production boat been built this way. I have seen this in drawn diagrams & demo pix it is legitimate form of construction commonly used. My only other idea is go to a boat yard that does wood construction with this detail for a better explanation.
          I think you'll do fine, Mike

          --- On Sun, 4/13/08, Tom Hesselink <quietboats@...> wrote:

          > From: Tom Hesselink <quietboats@...>
          > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: Newbie with questions on Hope
          > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
          > Date: Sunday, April 13, 2008, 8:56 PM
          > Greg, my first thought is that 7/8" is way too thin for
          > a keel on 26'
          > cruiser. Are you sure that is correct? I am not familar
          > with
          > Atkin's scantlings on this size of boat but I would
          > guess somthing
          > much more substainal would be in order. Nice boat by the
          > way. Good
          > luck.
          >
          >
          > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "gress.gag54"
          > <gress.gag54@...>
          > wrote:
          > >
          > > Hi all,
          > > Long time lurker, just joined the group. I recenly
          > recieved
          > > my plans for the cruiser Hope, and am having a problem
          > with
          > > the table of offets. William states that the keel is
          > to be
          > > w. oak 7/8" x 6" with a 1/2" x 8"
          > batten. The offsets show the
          > > rabbet to be 1" higher than the bottom of the
          > keel, this puts
          > > it 1/8" above the top of the keel and through the
          > keel batten.
          > > Example: heights above base at sta. 5 keel
          > 0-9-3/8", rabbet
          > > 0-10-3/8". Am I misunderstanding this, or is
          > something wrong?
          > >
          > > Greg Gress
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > No flaming, cursing, politics, religion or public mopery.
          > Please be polite.
          >
          > If you set out to build an Atkin boat, please do not modify
          > the plans. If you stray from the plans you do so at your own
          > risk and Atkin & Co. will take no responsibility for the
          > performance of the resulting boat.
          >
          > The current Atkin boat plans catalog is online at
          > <http://www.atkinboatplans.com/>
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
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        • gress.gag54
          ... 26 ... Good ... Thanks for the responses. Some of the scantlings are on the prints, and some are in the Rudder how-to article. In the article Billy
          Message 4 of 7 , Apr 16 1:41 PM
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            --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Hesselink" <quietboats@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Greg, my first thought is that 7/8" is way too thin for a keel on
            26'
            > cruiser. Are you sure that is correct? I am not familar with
            > Atkin's scantlings on this size of boat but I would guess somthing
            > much more substainal would be in order. Nice boat by the way.
            Good
            > luck.
            >
            >
            > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "gress.gag54" <gress.gag54@>
            > wrote:
            > >
            > > Hi all,
            > > Long time lurker, just joined the group. I recenly recieved
            > > my plans for the cruiser Hope, and am having a problem with
            > > the table of offets. William states that the keel is to be
            > > w. oak 7/8" x 6" with a 1/2" x 8" batten. The offsets show the
            > > rabbet to be 1" higher than the bottom of the keel, this puts
            > > it 1/8" above the top of the keel and through the keel batten.
            > > Example: heights above base at sta. 5 keel 0-9-3/8", rabbet
            > > 0-10-3/8". Am I misunderstanding this, or is something wrong?
            > >
            > > Greg Gress
            > >
            > Michael, Tom,

            Thanks for the responses. Some of the scantlings are on the prints,
            and some are in the Rudder how-to article. In the article Billy
            writes, "The keel will be made of white oak 7/8-inch thick by 6
            inches wide. There is an apron piece 1/2" thick by 8" wide white
            oak". I understand all this and that the apron forms the rabbet. The
            keel standing proud of the planking 1" though, is not possible. My
            thoughts are to use a keel 1 5/8" thick with an apron as he calls it
            3/4" thick, as not much material is left to screw to after beveling
            the areas with more deadrise. The thicker material certainly can't
            hurt anything other than adding a few pounds.

            Thanks, Greg Gress
          • Tom Hesselink
            Greg, I think your given dimensions are certainly more realistic and workable--I would use as thick of keel and apron as can be bent over the station molds.
            Message 5 of 7 , Apr 16 3:41 PM
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              Greg, I think your given dimensions are certainly more realistic and
              workable--I would use as thick of keel and apron as can be bent over
              the station molds. Even a 3/4" oak apron would have a tendency to
              split from the planking screws. Do the plans call for an additional
              false keel or worm shoe on the bottom of the hull? I would think
              that 1.5" below the planking would not be too much--you will want
              something there to help with tracking in a cross wind. I do like
              this design. Where do you plan to use the boat? Are you planing to
              use carvel planking or cold mold/strip planking? Best, Tom



              --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "gress.gag54" <gress.gag54@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Hesselink" <quietboats@>
              > wrote:
              > >
              > > Greg, my first thought is that 7/8" is way too thin for a keel on
              > 26'
              > > cruiser. Are you sure that is correct? I am not familar with
              > > Atkin's scantlings on this size of boat but I would guess
              somthing
              > > much more substainal would be in order. Nice boat by the way.
              > Good
              > > luck.
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "gress.gag54" <gress.gag54@>
              > > wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Hi all,
              > > > Long time lurker, just joined the group. I recenly recieved
              > > > my plans for the cruiser Hope, and am having a problem with
              > > > the table of offets. William states that the keel is to be
              > > > w. oak 7/8" x 6" with a 1/2" x 8" batten. The offsets show the
              > > > rabbet to be 1" higher than the bottom of the keel, this puts
              > > > it 1/8" above the top of the keel and through the keel batten.
              > > > Example: heights above base at sta. 5 keel 0-9-3/8", rabbet
              > > > 0-10-3/8". Am I misunderstanding this, or is something wrong?
              > > >
              > > > Greg Gress
              > > >
              > > Michael, Tom,
              >
              > Thanks for the responses. Some of the scantlings are on the prints,
              > and some are in the Rudder how-to article. In the article Billy
              > writes, "The keel will be made of white oak 7/8-inch thick by 6
              > inches wide. There is an apron piece 1/2" thick by 8" wide white
              > oak". I understand all this and that the apron forms the rabbet.
              The
              > keel standing proud of the planking 1" though, is not possible. My
              > thoughts are to use a keel 1 5/8" thick with an apron as he calls
              it
              > 3/4" thick, as not much material is left to screw to after beveling
              > the areas with more deadrise. The thicker material certainly can't
              > hurt anything other than adding a few pounds.
              >
              > Thanks, Greg Gress
              >
            • gress.gag54
              Tom, Plans do not call for anything more as far as worm shoe or false keel. If I do build it, it ll be a few more years when I retire. Plans call for batten
              Message 6 of 7 , Apr 16 6:24 PM
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                Tom, Plans do not call for anything more as far as worm shoe or false
                keel. If I do build it, it'll be a few more years when I retire. Plans
                call for batten seam construction and that's how I would build it, I
                can't stand working with epoxy, so I would never finish it cold molded.
                I have thought about a skeg, but am undecided. It would be used mostly
                on the upper Mississippi from Minneapolis south. Greg
                --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Hesselink" <quietboats@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > Greg, I think your given dimensions are certainly more realistic and
                > workable--I would use as thick of keel and apron as can be bent over
                > the station molds. Even a 3/4" oak apron would have a tendency to
                > split from the planking screws. Do the plans call for an additional
                > false keel or worm shoe on the bottom of the hull? I would think
                > that 1.5" below the planking would not be too much--you will want
                > something there to help with tracking in a cross wind. I do like
                > this design. Where do you plan to use the boat? Are you planing to
                > use carvel planking or cold mold/strip planking? Best, Tom
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "gress.gag54" gress.gag54@
                > wrote:
                > >
                > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Hesselink" <quietboats@>
                > > wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Greg, my first thought is that 7/8" is way too thin for a keel on
                > > 26'
                > > > cruiser. Are you sure that is correct? I am not familar with
                > > > Atkin's scantlings on this size of boat but I would guess
                > somthing
                > > > much more substainal would be in order. Nice boat by the way.
                > > Good
                > > > luck.
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "gress.gag54" <gress.gag54@>
                > > > wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > Hi all,
                > > > > Long time lurker, just joined the group. I recenly recieved
                > > > > my plans for the cruiser Hope, and am having a problem with
                > > > > the table of offets. William states that the keel is to be
                > > > > w. oak 7/8" x 6" with a 1/2" x 8" batten. The offsets show the
                > > > > rabbet to be 1" higher than the bottom of the keel, this puts
                > > > > it 1/8" above the top of the keel and through the keel batten.
                > > > > Example: heights above base at sta. 5 keel 0-9-3/8", rabbet
                > > > > 0-10-3/8". Am I misunderstanding this, or is something wrong?
                > > > >
                > > > > Greg Gress
                > > > >
                > > > Michael, Tom,
                > >
                > > Thanks for the responses. Some of the scantlings are on the prints,
                > > and some are in the Rudder how-to article. In the article Billy
                > > writes, "The keel will be made of white oak 7/8-inch thick by 6
                > > inches wide. There is an apron piece 1/2" thick by 8" wide white
                > > oak". I understand all this and that the apron forms the rabbet.
                > The
                > > keel standing proud of the planking 1" though, is not possible. My
                > > thoughts are to use a keel 1 5/8" thick with an apron as he calls
                > it
                > > 3/4" thick, as not much material is left to screw to after beveling
                > > the areas with more deadrise. The thicker material certainly can't
                > > hurt anything other than adding a few pounds.
                > >
                > > Thanks, Greg Gress
                > >
                >
              • Steve
                I have recently built a Hope . I put a small keelson on, starting at Frame 5 and ending just past Frame 10. The bottom of the keelson was parallel with the
                Message 7 of 7 , Jun 2, 2008
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                  I have recently built a "Hope". I put a small keelson on, starting at
                  Frame 5 and ending just past Frame 10. The bottom of the keelson was
                  parallel with the DWL, so the boat would sit level on it.It was 1 1/2"
                  wide hardwood. In retrospect, it was probably too small as the boat
                  was very skittish in a cross breeze, and one had to be very assertive
                  when docking. Could have had something to do with the extra windage of
                  the larger cabin, but still think this keelson would be a minimum.


                  --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "gress.gag54" <gress.gag54@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Tom, Plans do not call for anything more as far as worm shoe or false
                  > keel. If I do build it, it'll be a few more years when I retire. Plans
                  > call for batten seam construction and that's how I would build it, I
                  > can't stand working with epoxy, so I would never finish it cold molded.
                  > I have thought about a skeg, but am undecided. It would be used mostly
                  > on the upper Mississippi from Minneapolis south. Greg
                  > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Hesselink" <quietboats@>
                  > wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Greg, I think your given dimensions are certainly more realistic and
                  > > workable--I would use as thick of keel and apron as can be bent over
                  > > the station molds. Even a 3/4" oak apron would have a tendency to
                  > > split from the planking screws. Do the plans call for an additional
                  > > false keel or worm shoe on the bottom of the hull? I would think
                  > > that 1.5" below the planking would not be too much--you will want
                  > > something there to help with tracking in a cross wind. I do like
                  > > this design. Where do you plan to use the boat? Are you planing to
                  > > use carvel planking or cold mold/strip planking? Best, Tom
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "gress.gag54" gress.gag54@
                  > > wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Hesselink" <quietboats@>
                  > > > wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Greg, my first thought is that 7/8" is way too thin for a keel on
                  > > > 26'
                  > > > > cruiser. Are you sure that is correct? I am not familar with
                  > > > > Atkin's scantlings on this size of boat but I would guess
                  > > somthing
                  > > > > much more substainal would be in order. Nice boat by the way.
                  > > > Good
                  > > > > luck.
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "gress.gag54" <gress.gag54@>
                  > > > > wrote:
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Hi all,
                  > > > > > Long time lurker, just joined the group. I recenly recieved
                  > > > > > my plans for the cruiser Hope, and am having a problem with
                  > > > > > the table of offets. William states that the keel is to be
                  > > > > > w. oak 7/8" x 6" with a 1/2" x 8" batten. The offsets show the
                  > > > > > rabbet to be 1" higher than the bottom of the keel, this puts
                  > > > > > it 1/8" above the top of the keel and through the keel batten.
                  > > > > > Example: heights above base at sta. 5 keel 0-9-3/8", rabbet
                  > > > > > 0-10-3/8". Am I misunderstanding this, or is something wrong?
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Greg Gress
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > Michael, Tom,
                  > > >
                  > > > Thanks for the responses. Some of the scantlings are on the prints,
                  > > > and some are in the Rudder how-to article. In the article Billy
                  > > > writes, "The keel will be made of white oak 7/8-inch thick by 6
                  > > > inches wide. There is an apron piece 1/2" thick by 8" wide white
                  > > > oak". I understand all this and that the apron forms the rabbet.
                  > > The
                  > > > keel standing proud of the planking 1" though, is not possible. My
                  > > > thoughts are to use a keel 1 5/8" thick with an apron as he calls
                  > > it
                  > > > 3/4" thick, as not much material is left to screw to after beveling
                  > > > the areas with more deadrise. The thicker material certainly can't
                  > > > hurt anything other than adding a few pounds.
                  > > >
                  > > > Thanks, Greg Gress
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
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