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Re: [AtkinBoats] Problem in the Lofting

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  • David Calloway
    3.2.1+ would be three feet, two inches, 1 eighth plus one sixteenth, or 3 2 -3/16. 0.2.3- is two inches three eighths minus a sixteenth, or 2 -5/16. At
    Message 1 of 25 , Jan 31, 2008
      3.2.1+ would be three feet, two inches, 1 eighth plus one sixteenth, or 3' 2"-3/16. 0.2.3- is two inches three eighths minus a sixteenth, or 2"-5/16. At least that's what I have done, and found it to work.

      David


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: gordocutter_1
      To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 4:35 PM
      Subject: [AtkinBoats] Problem in the Lofting


      I recently receive the plans for the Maid of Endor that I order, when
      I started studying the plans I faced my first problem, the table of
      offsets has some numbers with the signal of addiction(+) and some
      with the signal of subtraction (-) for example 2.10¹/²- or 3.10³/²+,
      if somebody can tell me what the signals means, I would really
      appreciate the help.
      I bought the Greg Rössel book "Building Small Boats" but there
      is no example of numbers like these using the signal of addition or
      subtraction, although the book is very good in the part of lofting.
      I think is obviously that is my first lofting and if there is any tip
      of you folks, who have already pass by these problems I would really
      appreciate the help. Thanks !





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • EUGENE DIXON
      Lofting Problem: + or - , add or subtract !/16 usualy. but go for a fair curve, no bumps or kinks. Try your public libray Reuel Parker --- The New
      Message 2 of 25 , Jan 31, 2008
        Lofting Problem: + or - , add or subtract !/16" usualy. but go for a fair curve, no bumps or kinks.
        Try your public libray Reuel Parker --- "The New Cold-Molded Boatbuilding or
        Buehlers Backyard Boat Building.

        gordocutter_1 <gordocutter_1@...> wrote:
        I recently receive the plans for the Maid of Endor that I order, when
        I started studying the plans I faced my first problem, the table of
        offsets has some numbers with the signal of addiction(+) and some
        with the signal of subtraction (-) for example 2.10¹/²- or 3.10³/²+,
        if somebody can tell me what the signals means, I would really
        appreciate the help.
        I bought the Greg Rössel book "Building Small Boats" but there
        is no example of numbers like these using the signal of addition or
        subtraction, although the book is very good in the part of lofting.
        I think is obviously that is my first lofting and if there is any tip
        of you folks, who have already pass by these problems I would really
        appreciate the help. Thanks !






        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Don Douglas
        The + sign means the actual measurement is a little over the stated dimension and the - means it is a little less. So if the measurement was 2 10 1/2+ then
        Message 3 of 25 , Jan 31, 2008
          The + sign means the actual measurement is a little over the stated dimension and the - means it is a little less. So if the measurement was 2 10 1/2+ then the actual measurement is a little over 1/2". This would be easier to pick up if you gave us the smallest fraction used. Let's say everything is in 1/4" increments, then the +/- would take you to the +1/8 or -1/8" from the stated point.

          Hope that helps
          Don Douglas
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: gordocutter_1
          To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 5:35 PM
          Subject: [AtkinBoats] Problem in the Lofting


          I recently receive the plans for the Maid of Endor that I order, when
          I started studying the plans I faced my first problem, the table of
          offsets has some numbers with the signal of addiction(+) and some
          with the signal of subtraction (-) for example 2.10¹/²- or 3.10³/²+,
          if somebody can tell me what the signals means, I would really
          appreciate the help.
          I bought the Greg Rössel book "Building Small Boats" but there
          is no example of numbers like these using the signal of addition or
          subtraction, although the book is very good in the part of lofting.
          I think is obviously that is my first lofting and if there is any tip
          of you folks, who have already pass by these problems I would really
          appreciate the help. Thanks !





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Ron Butterfield
          Finally, one I can answer. The plus (+) and minus (-) are sixteenth s (1/16 ) either added to or subtracted from the rest of the number. They use both so the
          Message 4 of 25 , Jan 31, 2008
            Finally, one I can answer. The plus (+) and minus (-) are sixteenth's
            (1/16") either added to or subtracted from the rest of the number.
            They use both so the adjacent fraction can be simpler (ie "1/2+"
            instead of "5/8-")

            On Jan 31, 2008 7:35 PM, gordocutter_1 <gordocutter_1@...> wrote:
            > the table of
            > offsets has some numbers with the signal of addition(+) and some
            > with the signal of subtraction (-) for example 2.10¹/²- or 3.10³/²+,
            > if somebody can tell me what the signals means, I would really
            > appreciate the help.

            --
            Regards,
            RonB
          • rdtsang1953
            ... If your not using Howard Chappell s (sp?) book Boatbuilding , don t build the boat. It has an excellent discussion on lofting not to mention
            Message 5 of 25 , Feb 1, 2008
              --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "gordocutter_1" <gordocutter_1@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > I recently receive the plans for the Maid of Endor that I order, when
              > I started studying the plans I faced my first problem, the table of


              If your not using Howard Chappell's (sp?) book 'Boatbuilding', don't
              build the boat. It has an excellent discussion on lofting not to
              mention boatbuilding. You can probably get it on loan from your local
              library.

              Bob
            • gordocutter_1
              ... I m a little lost in this stage so any kind of help will be very useful. Here in Brazil we don t have much people to record and ask for help. Is a
              Message 6 of 25 , Feb 1, 2008
                --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Ron Butterfield"
                <ron.butterfield@...> wrote:
                >Thanks very much for help me friend, it was very handful for me,
                I'm a little lost in this stage so any kind of help will be very
                useful. Here in Brazil we don't have much people to record and ask
                for help. Is a controversy, we have beautiful shores, bays and
                beaches, warm waters and a huge coast but we don't have a big
                community of sailors and amateur boat builders that you have there
                in the EUA, what a shame.

                Best regards,
                Adaucto Mello

                > Finally, one I can answer. The plus (+) and minus (-) are
                sixteenth's
                > (1/16") either added to or subtracted from the rest of the number.
                > They use both so the adjacent fraction can be simpler (ie "1/2+"
                > instead of "5/8-")
                >
                > On Jan 31, 2008 7:35 PM, gordocutter_1 <gordocutter_1@...> wrote:
                > > the table of
                > > offsets has some numbers with the signal of addition(+) and some
                > > with the signal of subtraction (-) for example 2.10¹/²- or
                3.10³/²+,
                > > if somebody can tell me what the signals means, I would really
                > > appreciate the help.
                >
                > --
                > Regards,
                > RonB
                >
              • Chris Kottaridis
                ... the 3/2 seems odd, wouldn t that show up as 3.11 1/2+ ??? Chris Kottaridis (chriskot@quietwind.net)
                Message 7 of 25 , Feb 1, 2008
                  On Thu, 2008-01-31 at 21:38 -0500, Ron Butterfield wrote:

                  > > with the signal of subtraction (-) for example 2.10¹/²- or 3.10³/²+,

                  the 3/2 seems odd, wouldn't that show up as 3.11 1/2+ ???

                  Chris Kottaridis (chriskot@...)
                • RF Wellington
                  All boat plans that I have ever seen or worked with are dimensioned in: Feet, Inches, and Eights. That s The Rule ! The last number is ALWAYS in eights of an
                  Message 8 of 25 , Feb 2, 2008
                    All boat plans that I have ever seen or worked with are dimensioned
                    in: Feet, Inches, and Eights. That's The Rule !

                    The last number is ALWAYS in eights of an inch (a 6 would really mean
                    3/4")

                    A dimension on the plan such as 8-7-4 would mean the dimension is 8
                    feet, 7 inches, and 4 eights of an inch long (or 8 feet 7 1/2")

                    An indication of + after the dimension indicates that the dimension
                    is 1/16 of an inch longer than indicated. An indication of - after
                    the dimension indicates that the actual dimension is 1/16 shorter
                    than indicated.

                    A dimension on the plan of 8-7-4+ would mean that the actual
                    dimension is 8 feet, 7 and 9/16 inches long. Conversely a dimension
                    of 8-7-4- would indicate that the actual dimension is 8 feet, 7 and
                    7/16 inches long.

                    I have never seen a boat plan dimensioned in tenths of an inch such
                    as 3.10 I do not know how much of an addition or a subtration the +
                    or the - would make in this case.

                    The builder always has to use a little leeway, common sense, and his
                    eye. Make everything fair, fit properly, look correct and you should
                    have a fine craft. The most valuable tool, equipment, or commodity
                    any boat builder can have at his disposal is experience. That is why
                    most people recommend that your first building project should be
                    something small where you can gain both experience and confidence,
                    such as a dinghy.

                    I hope this helps.

                    Duke Wellington


                    --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, Chris Kottaridis <chriskot@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > On Thu, 2008-01-31 at 21:38 -0500, Ron Butterfield wrote:
                    >
                    > > > with the signal of subtraction (-) for example 2.10¹/²- or
                    3.10³/²+,
                    >
                    > the 3/2 seems odd, wouldn't that show up as 3.11 1/2+ ???
                    >
                    > Chris Kottaridis (chriskot@...)
                    >
                  • Aquiles Rösner
                    ... An other important boock only about lofting is Lofting from Allan H. Vaitses, published by WoodenBoat Publications, www.woodenboat.com Happy lofting
                    Message 9 of 25 , Feb 2, 2008
                      Am Freitag, den 01.02.2008, 16:08 -0700 schrieb Chris Kottaridis:
                      >
                      > On Thu, 2008-01-31 at 21:38 -0500, Ron Butterfield wrote:
                      >
                      > > > with the signal of subtraction (-) for example 2.10¹/²- or 3.10³/²
                      > +,
                      >
                      > the 3/2 seems odd, wouldn't that show up as 3.11 1/2+ ???
                      >
                      > Chris Kottaridis (chriskot@...)

                      An other important boock only about lofting is "Lofting" from Allan H.
                      Vaitses, published by WoodenBoat Publications, www.woodenboat.com
                      Happy lofting
                      Aquiles from Germany
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • rdtsang1953
                      I would have to agree on the ft.-inches-eighths in most cases. If you read the classics, Chappelle or Herreshof. I had read these and consumed the type and
                      Message 10 of 25 , Feb 2, 2008
                        I would have to agree on the ft.-inches-eighths in most cases. If you
                        read the classics, Chappelle or Herreshof. I had read these and
                        consumed the type and bought all the right measuring tools before my
                        plans arrived from New Zealand. They were metric!!!

                        There are no absolutes in life!

                        bob

                        --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "RF Wellington" <dukenali@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > All boat plans that I have ever seen or worked with are dimensioned
                        > in: Feet, Inches, and Eights. That's The Rule !
                        >
                        > The last number is ALWAYS in eights of an inch (a 6 would really mean
                        > 3/4")
                        >
                        > A dimension on the plan such as 8-7-4 would mean the dimension is 8
                        > feet, 7 inches, and 4 eights of an inch long (or 8 feet 7 1/2")
                        >
                        > An indication of + after the dimension indicates that the dimension
                        > is 1/16 of an inch longer than indicated. An indication of - after
                        > the dimension indicates that the actual dimension is 1/16 shorter
                        > than indicated.
                        >
                        > A dimension on the plan of 8-7-4+ would mean that the actual
                        > dimension is 8 feet, 7 and 9/16 inches long. Conversely a dimension
                        > of 8-7-4- would indicate that the actual dimension is 8 feet, 7 and
                        > 7/16 inches long.
                        >
                        > I have never seen a boat plan dimensioned in tenths of an inch such
                        > as 3.10 I do not know how much of an addition or a subtration the +
                        > or the - would make in this case.
                        >
                        > The builder always has to use a little leeway, common sense, and his
                        > eye. Make everything fair, fit properly, look correct and you should
                        > have a fine craft. The most valuable tool, equipment, or commodity
                        > any boat builder can have at his disposal is experience. That is why
                        > most people recommend that your first building project should be
                        > something small where you can gain both experience and confidence,
                        > such as a dinghy.
                        >
                        > I hope this helps.
                        >
                        > Duke Wellington
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, Chris Kottaridis <chriskot@>
                        > wrote:
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > On Thu, 2008-01-31 at 21:38 -0500, Ron Butterfield wrote:
                        > >
                        > > > > with the signal of subtraction (-) for example 2.10¹/²- or
                        > 3.10³/²+,
                        > >
                        > > the 3/2 seems odd, wouldn't that show up as 3.11 1/2+ ???
                        > >
                        > > Chris Kottaridis (chriskot@)
                        > >
                        >
                      • George C
                        The gentlman that asked this question had several typos in the dimensions he listed. The example he gave 3.10 3/2+, is really 3-10 3/4 +. The Maiden of Endor
                        Message 11 of 25 , Feb 2, 2008
                          The gentlman that asked this question had several typos in the dimensions he listed. The example he gave 3.10 3/2+, is really 3-10 3/4 +. The Maiden of Endor offsets are in feet, inches, fraction of an inch down to an eights with the +/- indicator for sixteenths.



                          ----- Original Message ----
                          From: RF Wellington <dukenali@...>
                          To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Saturday, February 2, 2008 9:13:17 AM
                          Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: Problem in the Lofting
















                          All boat plans that I have ever seen or worked with are dimensioned

                          in: Feet, Inches, and Eights. That's The Rule !



                          The last number is ALWAYS in eights of an inch (a 6 would really mean

                          3/4")



                          A dimension on the plan such as 8-7-4 would mean the dimension is 8

                          feet, 7 inches, and 4 eights of an inch long (or 8 feet 7 1/2")



                          An indication of + after the dimension indicates that the dimension

                          is 1/16 of an inch longer than indicated. An indication of - after

                          the dimension indicates that the actual dimension is 1/16 shorter

                          than indicated.



                          A dimension on the plan of 8-7-4+ would mean that the actual

                          dimension is 8 feet, 7 and 9/16 inches long. Conversely a dimension

                          of 8-7-4- would indicate that the actual dimension is 8 feet, 7 and

                          7/16 inches long.



                          I have never seen a boat plan dimensioned in tenths of an inch such

                          as 3.10 I do not know how much of an addition or a subtration the +

                          or the - would make in this case.



                          The builder always has to use a little leeway, common sense, and his

                          eye. Make everything fair, fit properly, look correct and you should

                          have a fine craft. The most valuable tool, equipment, or commodity

                          any boat builder can have at his disposal is experience. That is why

                          most people recommend that your first building project should be

                          something small where you can gain both experience and confidence,

                          such as a dinghy.



                          I hope this helps.



                          Duke Wellington



                          --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com, Chris Kottaridis <chriskot@.. .>

                          wrote:

                          >

                          >

                          > On Thu, 2008-01-31 at 21:38 -0500, Ron Butterfield wrote:

                          >

                          > > > with the signal of subtraction (-) for example 2.10¹/²- or

                          3.10³/²+,

                          >

                          > the 3/2 seems odd, wouldn't that show up as 3.11 1/2+ ???

                          >

                          > Chris Kottaridis (chriskot@.. .)

                          >














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                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Chris Kottaridis
                          ... Ahhh, That makes more sense. Thanks Chris Kottaridis (chriskot@quietwind.net)
                          Message 12 of 25 , Feb 4, 2008
                            On Sat, 2008-02-02 at 18:59 -0800, George C wrote:
                            > The example he gave 3.10 3/2+, is really 3-10 3/4 +.

                            Ahhh, That makes more sense.

                            Thanks
                            Chris Kottaridis (chriskot@...)
                          • gordocutter_1
                            ... store. They suggest the Greg Rossel s Book Building Small Boats , its seems good but I didn t read any other book. Here in Brazil, different from the EUA,
                            Message 13 of 25 , Feb 4, 2008
                              --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "rdtsang1953" <rdtsang@...> wrote:
                              >Hi Bob thanks for the tip, I order the plans from the wooden boat
                              store.
                              They suggest the Greg Rossel's Book "Building Small Boats", its
                              seems good but I didn't read any other book. Here in Brazil,
                              different from the EUA, we don't have much literature from this
                              subject, I had to bought in the Amazon. I will search for the
                              Chapell's book now . Thanks .

                              Adaucto
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "gordocutter_1" <gordocutter_1@>
                              > wrote:
                              > >
                              > > I recently receive the plans for the Maid of Endor that I order,
                              when
                              > > I started studying the plans I faced my first problem, the
                              table of
                              >
                              >
                              > If your not using Howard Chappell's (sp?) book 'Boatbuilding',
                              don't
                              > build the boat. It has an excellent discussion on lofting not to
                              > mention boatbuilding. You can probably get it on loan from your
                              local
                              > library.
                              >
                              > Bob
                              >
                            • gordocutter_1
                              ... It s sure helps Wellington, thank you very much for your tips friend. I think I ve been a little ambitious in build such a boat like the Maid of Endor. But
                              Message 14 of 25 , Feb 4, 2008
                                --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "RF Wellington" <dukenali@...>
                                wrote:
                                >
                                It's sure helps Wellington, thank you very much for your tips
                                friend. I think I've been a little ambitious in build such a boat
                                like the Maid of Endor. But I'm fascinate with the lines of her and
                                the more I think about the idea in building her the more a like. I
                                will sure appreciate helps like this you provide in the process.
                                Thanks .

                                Adaucto

                                >
                                > All boat plans that I have ever seen or worked with are
                                dimensioned
                                > in: Feet, Inches, and Eights. That's The Rule !
                                >
                                > The last number is ALWAYS in eights of an inch (a 6 would really
                                mean
                                > 3/4")
                                >
                                > A dimension on the plan such as 8-7-4 would mean the dimension is
                                8
                                > feet, 7 inches, and 4 eights of an inch long (or 8 feet 7 1/2")
                                >
                                > An indication of + after the dimension indicates that the
                                dimension
                                > is 1/16 of an inch longer than indicated. An indication of -
                                after
                                > the dimension indicates that the actual dimension is 1/16 shorter
                                > than indicated.
                                >
                                > A dimension on the plan of 8-7-4+ would mean that the actual
                                > dimension is 8 feet, 7 and 9/16 inches long. Conversely a
                                dimension
                                > of 8-7-4- would indicate that the actual dimension is 8 feet, 7
                                and
                                > 7/16 inches long.
                                >
                                > I have never seen a boat plan dimensioned in tenths of an inch
                                such
                                > as 3.10 I do not know how much of an addition or a subtration the
                                +
                                > or the - would make in this case.
                                >
                                > The builder always has to use a little leeway, common sense, and
                                his
                                > eye. Make everything fair, fit properly, look correct and you
                                should
                                > have a fine craft. The most valuable tool, equipment, or
                                commodity
                                > any boat builder can have at his disposal is experience. That is
                                why
                                > most people recommend that your first building project should be
                                > something small where you can gain both experience and confidence,
                                > such as a dinghy.
                                >
                                > I hope this helps.
                                >
                                > Duke Wellington
                                >
                                >
                                > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, Chris Kottaridis <chriskot@>
                                > wrote:
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > On Thu, 2008-01-31 at 21:38 -0500, Ron Butterfield wrote:
                                > >
                                > > > > with the signal of subtraction (-) for example 2.10¹/²- or
                                > 3.10³/²+,
                                > >
                                > > the 3/2 seems odd, wouldn't that show up as 3.11 1/2+ ???
                                > >
                                > > Chris Kottaridis (chriskot@)
                                > >
                                >
                              • gordocutter_1
                                ... go for a fair curve, no bumps or kinks. ... Molded Boatbuilding or ... I order, when ... of ... 3.10³/²+, ... or ... lofting. ... tip ... really
                                Message 15 of 25 , Feb 4, 2008
                                  --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, EUGENE DIXON
                                  <edalmatiandixon@...> wrote:
                                  > Thanks for the tip Eugene! I will search the books!

                                  > Lofting Problem: + or - , add or subtract !/16" usualy. but
                                  go for a fair curve, no bumps or kinks.
                                  > Try your public libray Reuel Parker --- "The New Cold-
                                  Molded Boatbuilding or
                                  > Buehlers Backyard Boat Building.
                                  >
                                  > gordocutter_1 <gordocutter_1@...> wrote:
                                  > I recently receive the plans for the Maid of Endor that
                                  I order, when
                                  > I started studying the plans I faced my first problem, the table
                                  of
                                  > offsets has some numbers with the signal of addiction(+) and some
                                  > with the signal of subtraction (-) for example 2.10¹/²- or
                                  3.10³/²+,
                                  > if somebody can tell me what the signals means, I would really
                                  > appreciate the help.
                                  > I bought the Greg Rössel book "Building Small Boats" but there
                                  > is no example of numbers like these using the signal of addition
                                  or
                                  > subtraction, although the book is very good in the part of
                                  lofting.
                                  > I think is obviously that is my first lofting and if there is any
                                  tip
                                  > of you folks, who have already pass by these problems I would
                                  really
                                  > appreciate the help. Thanks !
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                • gordocutter_1
                                  ... example are 2.11¹/²+ that s exactly how is written.Somebody sad that the plus and the minus are sixteenths, an others sad that those are eights, but the
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Feb 4, 2008
                                    --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Don Douglas" <douglashome@...>
                                    wrote:
                                    > Thanks for the help Douglas, one of the numbers of the table for
                                    example are 2.11¹/²+ that's exactly how is written.Somebody sad that
                                    the plus and the minus are sixteenths, an others sad that those are
                                    eights, but the plans that Ihave specified the dimensions in feet's
                                    and inches, so at the end I just don't now were to go at all.

                                    > The + sign means the actual measurement is a little over the
                                    stated dimension and the - means it is a little less. So if the
                                    measurement was 2 10 1/2+ then the actual measurement is a little
                                    over 1/2". This would be easier to pick up if you gave us the
                                    smallest fraction used. Let's say everything is in 1/4" increments,
                                    then the +/- would take you to the +1/8 or -1/8" from the stated
                                    point.
                                    >
                                    > Hope that helps
                                    > Don Douglas
                                    > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > From: gordocutter_1
                                    > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 5:35 PM
                                    > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Problem in the Lofting
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > I recently receive the plans for the Maid of Endor that I order,
                                    when
                                    > I started studying the plans I faced my first problem, the table
                                    of
                                    > offsets has some numbers with the signal of addiction(+) and
                                    some
                                    > with the signal of subtraction (-) for example 2.10¹/²- or
                                    3.10³/²+,
                                    > if somebody can tell me what the signals means, I would really
                                    > appreciate the help.
                                    > I bought the Greg Rössel book "Building Small Boats" but there
                                    > is no example of numbers like these using the signal of addition
                                    or
                                    > subtraction, although the book is very good in the part of
                                    lofting.
                                    > I think is obviously that is my first lofting and if there is
                                    any tip
                                    > of you folks, who have already pass by these problems I would
                                    really
                                    > appreciate the help. Thanks !
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
                                  • gordocutter_1
                                    ... info about that, some say that these are sixteenths, others says what you are saying, I m standing in the middle try to discovery what it is. Thanks for
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Feb 4, 2008
                                      --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, Aquiles Rösner
                                      <aquiles.roesner@...> wrote:
                                      >Thanks for the help Aquiles, it looks like we have controversial
                                      info about that, some say that these are sixteenths, others says
                                      what you are saying, I'm standing in the middle try to discovery
                                      what it is. Thanks for the tip of the book I will search for it.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Am Freitag, den 01.02.2008, 16:08 -0700 schrieb Chris Kottaridis:
                                      > >
                                      > > On Thu, 2008-01-31 at 21:38 -0500, Ron Butterfield wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > > > with the signal of subtraction (-) for example 2.10¹/²- or
                                      3.10³/²
                                      > > +,
                                      > >
                                      > > the 3/2 seems odd, wouldn't that show up as 3.11 1/2+ ???
                                      > >
                                      > > Chris Kottaridis (chriskot@...)
                                      >
                                      > An other important boock only about lofting is "Lofting" from
                                      Allan H.
                                      > Vaitses, published by WoodenBoat Publications, www.woodenboat.com
                                      > Happy lofting
                                      > Aquiles from Germany
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                    • Don Douglas
                                      I have Rossel s book Building Small Boats plus The Boatbuilder s Apprentice and find a lot of good information from those two. But if you are going to
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Feb 4, 2008
                                        I have Rossel's book "Building Small Boats" plus "The Boatbuilder's Apprentice" and find a lot of good information from those two. But if you are going to build the Maid of Endor design, I suggest that you get (or steal) Chapelle's book since it is a benchmark of boat building and information that you will need. Also of good reference for the type of boat you are going to build are these two books: "How To Build A Wooden Boat" by David C. "Bud" McIntosh and "Details of Classic Boat Construction" by Larry Pardey. These two books along with Chapelle's "Boatbuilding" are the most reread books in my library. Also you might pick up these two for more details on lofting: "Lofting" by Allan H. Vaitses and "Mystic Seaport Boatshop Lofting Manual" by Barry Thomas and Chris Rawlings. They give some additional perspective on lofting but you can learn more than needed from Chapelle's chapter on Lofting in "Boatbuilding".

                                        You and I are in the same boat so to speak with our choices of builds. I am going after Atkin's Perigee which is similar to Maid of Endor but about 3' shorter. And these are our first "real" boats!

                                        Have fun building and don't worry about making mistakes and starting some part over. It is just a part of building.

                                        Don Douglas

                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • gordocutter_1
                                        ... now looking for the Chapelle s book (if I can t find it I ll be glad to stele it ) and all of the others books that you listed, in special the Lofting
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Feb 4, 2008
                                          --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Don Douglas" <douglashome@...>
                                          wrote:
                                          >Thank you very much, Douglas for your help and attention, I'm right
                                          now looking for the Chapelle's book (if I can't find it I'll be glad
                                          to stele it ) and all of the others books that you listed, in
                                          special the "Lofting" by Allan H. Vaitses.
                                          It is great to hear that I not the only one getting in these
                                          adventure in building a boat that requires so much knowledge for
                                          building it. I will be glad in see and hearing any progress in your
                                          boat.Good Luck !
                                          By the way I saw the plans of Perigee in the Atkin's page and her
                                          lines are very beautiful nice choice.

                                          > I have Rossel's book "Building Small Boats" plus "The
                                          Boatbuilder's Apprentice" and find a lot of good information from
                                          those two. But if you are going to build the Maid of Endor design,
                                          I suggest that you get (or steal) Chapelle's book since it is a
                                          benchmark of boat building and information that you will need. Also
                                          of good reference for the type of boat you are going to build are
                                          these two books: "How To Build A Wooden Boat" by David C. "Bud"
                                          McIntosh and "Details of Classic Boat Construction" by Larry
                                          Pardey. These two books along with Chapelle's "Boatbuilding" are
                                          the most reread books in my library. Also you might pick up these
                                          two for more details on lofting: "Lofting" by Allan H. Vaitses
                                          and "Mystic Seaport Boatshop Lofting Manual" by Barry Thomas and
                                          Chris Rawlings. They give some additional perspective on lofting
                                          but you can learn more than needed from Chapelle's chapter on
                                          Lofting in "Boatbuilding".
                                          >
                                          > You and I are in the same boat so to speak with our choices of
                                          builds. I am going after Atkin's Perigee which is similar to Maid
                                          of Endor but about 3' shorter. And these are our first "real" boats!
                                          >
                                          > Have fun building and don't worry about making mistakes and
                                          starting some part over. It is just a part of building.
                                          >
                                          > Don Douglas
                                          >
                                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          >
                                        • John Kohnen
                                          Yep, that should solve Adaucto s problem. While feet, inches and eighths are the rule for offsets, some of the Atkin plans use feet and fractional inches. In
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Feb 4, 2008
                                            Yep, that should solve Adaucto's problem. While feet, inches and eighths
                                            are the "rule" for offsets, some of the Atkin plans use feet and
                                            fractional inches. In either case, + means add 1/16" and - means
                                            substract 1/16". Thanks for looking at the plans and providing an
                                            authoritative and concise answer, George.

                                            It can't be stated often enough that all of the Atkin plans, except for a
                                            few of the very simplest little boats, require complete lofting! That
                                            doesn't mean just drawing the sections full-size; o, that way madness
                                            lies, my friends! All three views: profile, plan and sections have to be
                                            laid down and faired until they agree with each other. Anything less will
                                            result in extra work later, at best, or mishapen atrocity, at worst.
                                            <harumph>

                                            If you don't have room to lay down the lines full size, then where are you
                                            gonna find room to build the boat? But there are sometimes special
                                            circumstances where there isn't room to loft full size. Don't use that as
                                            an excuse to skip lofting altogether! Loft at 1/2 size, or what ever
                                            convenient fraction will, fit -- as big as you can. But try as hard as you
                                            can to do a proper lofting at full size. It's more accurate, and you can
                                            make patterns directly from your lofting.

                                            You'll thank yourself many times as you're building that you did a proper
                                            job of lofting at the start.

                                            On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 18:59:31 -0800, George C wrote:

                                            > The gentlman that asked this question had several typos in the
                                            > dimensions he listed. The example he gave 3.10 3/2+, is really 3-10 3/4
                                            > +. The Maiden of Endor offsets are in feet, inches, fraction of an inch
                                            > down to an eights with the +/- indicator for sixteenths.

                                            --
                                            John <jkohnen@...>
                                            Many a man has fallen in love with a girl in light so dim he
                                            would not have chosen a suit by it. <Maurice Chevalier>
                                          • alankornhauser
                                            One reason you have to loft hand-drawn plans is that the dimensions on the table of offsets are scaled from the lines plan. The lines plan for a 20 boat
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Feb 5, 2008
                                              One reason you have to loft hand-drawn plans is that the dimensions on
                                              the table of offsets are scaled from the lines plan. The lines plan
                                              for a 20' boat might be at the scale 1"=1'; for a larger boat the scale
                                              could be smaller. The smallest division on a 1"=1' architect's scale
                                              is 1/4", and designers figure that they can read to 1/2 of the smallest
                                              division, or 1/8". 1/16" is less than the thickness of the pencil
                                              line, so there's no point in writing 16ths. Anything that is not quite
                                              on an even 1/8" is designated with a + or -, but the exact value is not
                                              quantified.

                                              I've found that some William Atkin tables of offsets in MotorBoating
                                              articles have one or two gross errors that are clearly the result of
                                              mis-scaling the drawings. I suppose he turned out some of those
                                              designs on a pretty tight deadline and didn't have time for really
                                              careful checking.
                                            • Alan Boman
                                              Hi Folks, I m currently lofting a set of River Belle plans and notice that the forward end of the engine centre line is angled laterally off to Port. I
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Mar 11, 2008
                                                Hi Folks,



                                                I'm currently lofting a set of "River Belle" plans and notice that the
                                                forward end of the engine centre line is angled laterally off to Port. I
                                                assume this has been done to offset "prop walk" effects.



                                                I have just acquired a suitable engine & gearbox which rotates
                                                anti-clockwise when viewed from astern and will therefore require a Left
                                                Hand propeller I think. Whilst no comment is made in the description of the
                                                boat about propeller rotation or the engine offset, I'm assuming that this
                                                will then require the offset of the engine centreline to be changed to
                                                Starboard.



                                                Has anybody any thoughts ?



                                                Alan.





                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              • John Kohnen
                                                Yep, you ve got it figured out right, Alan. With a left-hand propeller angle the front of the engine off to starboard. ... -- John
                                                Message 23 of 25 , Mar 17, 2008
                                                  Yep, you've got it figured out right, Alan. With a left-hand propeller
                                                  angle the front of the engine off to starboard.

                                                  On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 03:32:18 -0700, Alan B wrote:

                                                  > I'm currently lofting a set of "River Belle" plans and notice that the
                                                  > forward end of the engine centre line is angled laterally off to Port. I
                                                  > assume this has been done to offset "prop walk" effects.
                                                  >
                                                  > I have just acquired a suitable engine & gearbox which rotates
                                                  > anti-clockwise when viewed from astern and will therefore require a Left
                                                  > Hand propeller I think. Whilst no comment is made in the description of
                                                  > the
                                                  > boat about propeller rotation or the engine offset, I'm assuming that
                                                  > this
                                                  > will then require the offset of the engine centreline to be changed to
                                                  > Starboard.

                                                  --
                                                  John <jkohnen@...>
                                                  Never put off until tomorrow what you can do the day after
                                                  tomorrow. <Mark Twain>
                                                • Alan Boman
                                                  Thanks for that John! Another aspect that I am much less sure about is the shaft elevation. The engine I have would allow the shaft to be angled much nearer to
                                                  Message 24 of 25 , Mar 17, 2008
                                                    Thanks for that John!

                                                    Another aspect that I am much less sure about is the shaft elevation.

                                                    The engine I have would allow the shaft to be angled much nearer to the
                                                    horizontal than Atkin specified and that would be good for efficiency I
                                                    think (in theory at least). However, I wonder if the hull design relies on
                                                    an element of lift from the down angled prop to ultimately provide level
                                                    operation.

                                                    Atkin apparently always said "don't modify anything" and I am very happy
                                                    with that, but I am still curious..................

                                                    What do people think ??


                                                    Alan



                                                    -----Original Message-----
                                                    From: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                    Behalf Of John Kohnen
                                                    Sent: Monday, 17 March 2008 6:39 PM
                                                    To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Subject: Re: [AtkinBoats] Engine not aligned with Keel

                                                    Yep, you've got it figured out right, Alan. With a left-hand propeller
                                                    angle the front of the engine off to starboard.

                                                    On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 03:32:18 -0700, Alan B wrote:

                                                    > I'm currently lofting a set of "River Belle" plans and notice that the
                                                    > forward end of the engine centre line is angled laterally off to Port. I
                                                    > assume this has been done to offset "prop walk" effects.
                                                    >
                                                    > I have just acquired a suitable engine & gearbox which rotates
                                                    > anti-clockwise when viewed from astern and will therefore require a Left
                                                    > Hand propeller I think. Whilst no comment is made in the description of
                                                    > the
                                                    > boat about propeller rotation or the engine offset, I'm assuming that
                                                    > this
                                                    > will then require the offset of the engine centreline to be changed to
                                                    > Starboard.

                                                    --
                                                    John <jkohnen@...>
                                                    Never put off until tomorrow what you can do the day after
                                                    tomorrow. <Mark Twain>

                                                    ------------------------------------

                                                    No flaming, cursing, politics, religion or public mopery. Please be polite.

                                                    If you set out to build an Atkin boat, please do not modify the plans. If
                                                    you stray from the plans you do so at your own risk and Atkin & Co. will
                                                    take no responsibility for the performance of the resulting boat.

                                                    The current Atkin boat plans catalog is online at
                                                    <http://www.atkinboatplans.com/>

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