## Problem in the Lofting

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• I recently receive the plans for the Maid of Endor that I order, when I started studying the plans I faced my first problem, the table of offsets has some
Message 1 of 25 , Jan 31, 2008
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I recently receive the plans for the Maid of Endor that I order, when
I started studying the plans I faced my first problem, the table of
offsets has some numbers with the signal of addiction(+) and some
with the signal of subtraction (-) for example 2.10¹/²- or 3.10³/²+,
if somebody can tell me what the signals means, I would really
appreciate the help.
I bought the Greg Rössel book "Building Small Boats" but there
is no example of numbers like these using the signal of addition or
subtraction, although the book is very good in the part of lofting.
I think is obviously that is my first lofting and if there is any tip
of you folks, who have already pass by these problems I would really
appreciate the help. Thanks !
• 3.2.1+ would be three feet, two inches, 1 eighth plus one sixteenth, or 3 2 -3/16. 0.2.3- is two inches three eighths minus a sixteenth, or 2 -5/16. At
Message 2 of 25 , Jan 31, 2008
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3.2.1+ would be three feet, two inches, 1 eighth plus one sixteenth, or 3' 2"-3/16. 0.2.3- is two inches three eighths minus a sixteenth, or 2"-5/16. At least that's what I have done, and found it to work.

David

----- Original Message -----
From: gordocutter_1
To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 4:35 PM
Subject: [AtkinBoats] Problem in the Lofting

I recently receive the plans for the Maid of Endor that I order, when
I started studying the plans I faced my first problem, the table of
offsets has some numbers with the signal of addiction(+) and some
with the signal of subtraction (-) for example 2.10¹/²- or 3.10³/²+,
if somebody can tell me what the signals means, I would really
appreciate the help.
I bought the Greg Rössel book "Building Small Boats" but there
is no example of numbers like these using the signal of addition or
subtraction, although the book is very good in the part of lofting.
I think is obviously that is my first lofting and if there is any tip
of you folks, who have already pass by these problems I would really
appreciate the help. Thanks !

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
• Lofting Problem: + or - , add or subtract !/16 usualy. but go for a fair curve, no bumps or kinks. Try your public libray Reuel Parker --- The New
Message 3 of 25 , Jan 31, 2008
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Lofting Problem: + or - , add or subtract !/16" usualy. but go for a fair curve, no bumps or kinks.
Try your public libray Reuel Parker --- "The New Cold-Molded Boatbuilding or
Buehlers Backyard Boat Building.

gordocutter_1 <gordocutter_1@...> wrote:
I recently receive the plans for the Maid of Endor that I order, when
I started studying the plans I faced my first problem, the table of
offsets has some numbers with the signal of addiction(+) and some
with the signal of subtraction (-) for example 2.10¹/²- or 3.10³/²+,
if somebody can tell me what the signals means, I would really
appreciate the help.
I bought the Greg Rössel book "Building Small Boats" but there
is no example of numbers like these using the signal of addition or
subtraction, although the book is very good in the part of lofting.
I think is obviously that is my first lofting and if there is any tip
of you folks, who have already pass by these problems I would really
appreciate the help. Thanks !

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
• The + sign means the actual measurement is a little over the stated dimension and the - means it is a little less. So if the measurement was 2 10 1/2+ then
Message 4 of 25 , Jan 31, 2008
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The + sign means the actual measurement is a little over the stated dimension and the - means it is a little less. So if the measurement was 2 10 1/2+ then the actual measurement is a little over 1/2". This would be easier to pick up if you gave us the smallest fraction used. Let's say everything is in 1/4" increments, then the +/- would take you to the +1/8 or -1/8" from the stated point.

Hope that helps
Don Douglas
----- Original Message -----
From: gordocutter_1
To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 5:35 PM
Subject: [AtkinBoats] Problem in the Lofting

I recently receive the plans for the Maid of Endor that I order, when
I started studying the plans I faced my first problem, the table of
offsets has some numbers with the signal of addiction(+) and some
with the signal of subtraction (-) for example 2.10¹/²- or 3.10³/²+,
if somebody can tell me what the signals means, I would really
appreciate the help.
I bought the Greg Rössel book "Building Small Boats" but there
is no example of numbers like these using the signal of addition or
subtraction, although the book is very good in the part of lofting.
I think is obviously that is my first lofting and if there is any tip
of you folks, who have already pass by these problems I would really
appreciate the help. Thanks !

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
• Finally, one I can answer. The plus (+) and minus (-) are sixteenth s (1/16 ) either added to or subtracted from the rest of the number. They use both so the
Message 5 of 25 , Jan 31, 2008
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Finally, one I can answer. The plus (+) and minus (-) are sixteenth's
(1/16") either added to or subtracted from the rest of the number.
They use both so the adjacent fraction can be simpler (ie "1/2+"

On Jan 31, 2008 7:35 PM, gordocutter_1 <gordocutter_1@...> wrote:
> the table of
> offsets has some numbers with the signal of addition(+) and some
> with the signal of subtraction (-) for example 2.10¹/²- or 3.10³/²+,
> if somebody can tell me what the signals means, I would really
> appreciate the help.

--
Regards,
RonB
• ... If your not using Howard Chappell s (sp?) book Boatbuilding , don t build the boat. It has an excellent discussion on lofting not to mention
Message 6 of 25 , Feb 1, 2008
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--- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "gordocutter_1" <gordocutter_1@...>
wrote:
>
> I recently receive the plans for the Maid of Endor that I order, when
> I started studying the plans I faced my first problem, the table of

If your not using Howard Chappell's (sp?) book 'Boatbuilding', don't
build the boat. It has an excellent discussion on lofting not to
mention boatbuilding. You can probably get it on loan from your local
library.

Bob
• ... I m a little lost in this stage so any kind of help will be very useful. Here in Brazil we don t have much people to record and ask for help. Is a
Message 7 of 25 , Feb 1, 2008
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--- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Ron Butterfield"
<ron.butterfield@...> wrote:
>Thanks very much for help me friend, it was very handful for me,
I'm a little lost in this stage so any kind of help will be very
useful. Here in Brazil we don't have much people to record and ask
for help. Is a controversy, we have beautiful shores, bays and
beaches, warm waters and a huge coast but we don't have a big
community of sailors and amateur boat builders that you have there
in the EUA, what a shame.

Best regards,

> Finally, one I can answer. The plus (+) and minus (-) are
sixteenth's
> (1/16") either added to or subtracted from the rest of the number.
> They use both so the adjacent fraction can be simpler (ie "1/2+"
>
> On Jan 31, 2008 7:35 PM, gordocutter_1 <gordocutter_1@...> wrote:
> > the table of
> > offsets has some numbers with the signal of addition(+) and some
> > with the signal of subtraction (-) for example 2.10¹/²- or
3.10³/²+,
> > if somebody can tell me what the signals means, I would really
> > appreciate the help.
>
> --
> Regards,
> RonB
>
• ... the 3/2 seems odd, wouldn t that show up as 3.11 1/2+ ??? Chris Kottaridis (chriskot@quietwind.net)
Message 8 of 25 , Feb 1, 2008
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On Thu, 2008-01-31 at 21:38 -0500, Ron Butterfield wrote:

> > with the signal of subtraction (-) for example 2.10¹/²- or 3.10³/²+,

the 3/2 seems odd, wouldn't that show up as 3.11 1/2+ ???

Chris Kottaridis (chriskot@...)
• All boat plans that I have ever seen or worked with are dimensioned in: Feet, Inches, and Eights. That s The Rule ! The last number is ALWAYS in eights of an
Message 9 of 25 , Feb 2, 2008
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All boat plans that I have ever seen or worked with are dimensioned
in: Feet, Inches, and Eights. That's The Rule !

The last number is ALWAYS in eights of an inch (a 6 would really mean
3/4")

A dimension on the plan such as 8-7-4 would mean the dimension is 8
feet, 7 inches, and 4 eights of an inch long (or 8 feet 7 1/2")

An indication of + after the dimension indicates that the dimension
is 1/16 of an inch longer than indicated. An indication of - after
the dimension indicates that the actual dimension is 1/16 shorter
than indicated.

A dimension on the plan of 8-7-4+ would mean that the actual
dimension is 8 feet, 7 and 9/16 inches long. Conversely a dimension
of 8-7-4- would indicate that the actual dimension is 8 feet, 7 and
7/16 inches long.

I have never seen a boat plan dimensioned in tenths of an inch such
as 3.10 I do not know how much of an addition or a subtration the +
or the - would make in this case.

The builder always has to use a little leeway, common sense, and his
eye. Make everything fair, fit properly, look correct and you should
have a fine craft. The most valuable tool, equipment, or commodity
any boat builder can have at his disposal is experience. That is why
most people recommend that your first building project should be
something small where you can gain both experience and confidence,
such as a dinghy.

I hope this helps.

Duke Wellington

--- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, Chris Kottaridis <chriskot@...>
wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, 2008-01-31 at 21:38 -0500, Ron Butterfield wrote:
>
> > > with the signal of subtraction (-) for example 2.10Â¹/Â²- or
3.10Â³/Â²+,
>
> the 3/2 seems odd, wouldn't that show up as 3.11 1/2+ ???
>
> Chris Kottaridis (chriskot@...)
>
• ... An other important boock only about lofting is Lofting from Allan H. Vaitses, published by WoodenBoat Publications, www.woodenboat.com Happy lofting
Message 10 of 25 , Feb 2, 2008
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Am Freitag, den 01.02.2008, 16:08 -0700 schrieb Chris Kottaridis:
>
> On Thu, 2008-01-31 at 21:38 -0500, Ron Butterfield wrote:
>
> > > with the signal of subtraction (-) for example 2.10¹/²- or 3.10³/²
> +,
>
> the 3/2 seems odd, wouldn't that show up as 3.11 1/2+ ???
>
> Chris Kottaridis (chriskot@...)

An other important boock only about lofting is "Lofting" from Allan H.
Happy lofting
Aquiles from Germany
>
>
>
>
• I would have to agree on the ft.-inches-eighths in most cases. If you read the classics, Chappelle or Herreshof. I had read these and consumed the type and
Message 11 of 25 , Feb 2, 2008
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I would have to agree on the ft.-inches-eighths in most cases. If you
consumed the type and bought all the right measuring tools before my
plans arrived from New Zealand. They were metric!!!

There are no absolutes in life!

bob

--- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "RF Wellington" <dukenali@...> wrote:
>
>
> All boat plans that I have ever seen or worked with are dimensioned
> in: Feet, Inches, and Eights. That's The Rule !
>
> The last number is ALWAYS in eights of an inch (a 6 would really mean
> 3/4")
>
> A dimension on the plan such as 8-7-4 would mean the dimension is 8
> feet, 7 inches, and 4 eights of an inch long (or 8 feet 7 1/2")
>
> An indication of + after the dimension indicates that the dimension
> is 1/16 of an inch longer than indicated. An indication of - after
> the dimension indicates that the actual dimension is 1/16 shorter
> than indicated.
>
> A dimension on the plan of 8-7-4+ would mean that the actual
> dimension is 8 feet, 7 and 9/16 inches long. Conversely a dimension
> of 8-7-4- would indicate that the actual dimension is 8 feet, 7 and
> 7/16 inches long.
>
> I have never seen a boat plan dimensioned in tenths of an inch such
> as 3.10 I do not know how much of an addition or a subtration the +
> or the - would make in this case.
>
> The builder always has to use a little leeway, common sense, and his
> eye. Make everything fair, fit properly, look correct and you should
> have a fine craft. The most valuable tool, equipment, or commodity
> any boat builder can have at his disposal is experience. That is why
> most people recommend that your first building project should be
> something small where you can gain both experience and confidence,
> such as a dinghy.
>
> I hope this helps.
>
> Duke Wellington
>
>
> --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, Chris Kottaridis <chriskot@>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Thu, 2008-01-31 at 21:38 -0500, Ron Butterfield wrote:
> >
> > > > with the signal of subtraction (-) for example 2.10Â¹/Â²- or
> 3.10Â³/Â²+,
> >
> > the 3/2 seems odd, wouldn't that show up as 3.11 1/2+ ???
> >
> > Chris Kottaridis (chriskot@)
> >
>
• The gentlman that asked this question had several typos in the dimensions he listed. The example he gave 3.10 3/2+, is really 3-10 3/4 +. The Maiden of Endor
Message 12 of 25 , Feb 2, 2008
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The gentlman that asked this question had several typos in the dimensions he listed. The example he gave 3.10 3/2+, is really 3-10 3/4 +. The Maiden of Endor offsets are in feet, inches, fraction of an inch down to an eights with the +/- indicator for sixteenths.

----- Original Message ----
From: RF Wellington <dukenali@...>
To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, February 2, 2008 9:13:17 AM
Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: Problem in the Lofting

All boat plans that I have ever seen or worked with are dimensioned

in: Feet, Inches, and Eights. That's The Rule !

The last number is ALWAYS in eights of an inch (a 6 would really mean

3/4")

A dimension on the plan such as 8-7-4 would mean the dimension is 8

feet, 7 inches, and 4 eights of an inch long (or 8 feet 7 1/2")

An indication of + after the dimension indicates that the dimension

is 1/16 of an inch longer than indicated. An indication of - after

the dimension indicates that the actual dimension is 1/16 shorter

than indicated.

A dimension on the plan of 8-7-4+ would mean that the actual

dimension is 8 feet, 7 and 9/16 inches long. Conversely a dimension

of 8-7-4- would indicate that the actual dimension is 8 feet, 7 and

7/16 inches long.

I have never seen a boat plan dimensioned in tenths of an inch such

as 3.10 I do not know how much of an addition or a subtration the +

or the - would make in this case.

The builder always has to use a little leeway, common sense, and his

eye. Make everything fair, fit properly, look correct and you should

have a fine craft. The most valuable tool, equipment, or commodity

any boat builder can have at his disposal is experience. That is why

most people recommend that your first building project should be

something small where you can gain both experience and confidence,

such as a dinghy.

I hope this helps.

Duke Wellington

--- In AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com, Chris Kottaridis <chriskot@.. .>

wrote:

>

>

> On Thu, 2008-01-31 at 21:38 -0500, Ron Butterfield wrote:

>

> > > with the signal of subtraction (-) for example 2.10Â¹/Â²- or

3.10Â³/Â²+,

>

> the 3/2 seems odd, wouldn't that show up as 3.11 1/2+ ???

>

> Chris Kottaridis (chriskot@.. .)

>

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____________________________________________________________________________________
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
• ... Ahhh, That makes more sense. Thanks Chris Kottaridis (chriskot@quietwind.net)
Message 13 of 25 , Feb 4, 2008
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On Sat, 2008-02-02 at 18:59 -0800, George C wrote:
> The example he gave 3.10 3/2+, is really 3-10 3/4 +.

Ahhh, That makes more sense.

Thanks
Chris Kottaridis (chriskot@...)
• ... store. They suggest the Greg Rossel s Book Building Small Boats , its seems good but I didn t read any other book. Here in Brazil, different from the EUA,
Message 14 of 25 , Feb 4, 2008
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--- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "rdtsang1953" <rdtsang@...> wrote:
>Hi Bob thanks for the tip, I order the plans from the wooden boat
store.
They suggest the Greg Rossel's Book "Building Small Boats", its
seems good but I didn't read any other book. Here in Brazil,
different from the EUA, we don't have much literature from this
subject, I had to bought in the Amazon. I will search for the
Chapell's book now . Thanks .

>
>
> --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "gordocutter_1" <gordocutter_1@>
> wrote:
> >
> > I recently receive the plans for the Maid of Endor that I order,
when
> > I started studying the plans I faced my first problem, the
table of
>
>
> If your not using Howard Chappell's (sp?) book 'Boatbuilding',
don't
> build the boat. It has an excellent discussion on lofting not to
> mention boatbuilding. You can probably get it on loan from your
local
> library.
>
> Bob
>
• ... It s sure helps Wellington, thank you very much for your tips friend. I think I ve been a little ambitious in build such a boat like the Maid of Endor. But
Message 15 of 25 , Feb 4, 2008
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--- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "RF Wellington" <dukenali@...>
wrote:
>
It's sure helps Wellington, thank you very much for your tips
friend. I think I've been a little ambitious in build such a boat
like the Maid of Endor. But I'm fascinate with the lines of her and
the more I think about the idea in building her the more a like. I
will sure appreciate helps like this you provide in the process.
Thanks .

>
> All boat plans that I have ever seen or worked with are
dimensioned
> in: Feet, Inches, and Eights. That's The Rule !
>
> The last number is ALWAYS in eights of an inch (a 6 would really
mean
> 3/4")
>
> A dimension on the plan such as 8-7-4 would mean the dimension is
8
> feet, 7 inches, and 4 eights of an inch long (or 8 feet 7 1/2")
>
> An indication of + after the dimension indicates that the
dimension
> is 1/16 of an inch longer than indicated. An indication of -
after
> the dimension indicates that the actual dimension is 1/16 shorter
> than indicated.
>
> A dimension on the plan of 8-7-4+ would mean that the actual
> dimension is 8 feet, 7 and 9/16 inches long. Conversely a
dimension
> of 8-7-4- would indicate that the actual dimension is 8 feet, 7
and
> 7/16 inches long.
>
> I have never seen a boat plan dimensioned in tenths of an inch
such
> as 3.10 I do not know how much of an addition or a subtration the
+
> or the - would make in this case.
>
> The builder always has to use a little leeway, common sense, and
his
> eye. Make everything fair, fit properly, look correct and you
should
> have a fine craft. The most valuable tool, equipment, or
commodity
> any boat builder can have at his disposal is experience. That is
why
> most people recommend that your first building project should be
> something small where you can gain both experience and confidence,
> such as a dinghy.
>
> I hope this helps.
>
> Duke Wellington
>
>
> --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, Chris Kottaridis <chriskot@>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Thu, 2008-01-31 at 21:38 -0500, Ron Butterfield wrote:
> >
> > > > with the signal of subtraction (-) for example 2.10Â¹/Â²- or
> 3.10Â³/Â²+,
> >
> > the 3/2 seems odd, wouldn't that show up as 3.11 1/2+ ???
> >
> > Chris Kottaridis (chriskot@)
> >
>
• ... go for a fair curve, no bumps or kinks. ... Molded Boatbuilding or ... I order, when ... of ... 3.10³/²+, ... or ... lofting. ... tip ... really
Message 16 of 25 , Feb 4, 2008
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--- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, EUGENE DIXON
<edalmatiandixon@...> wrote:
> Thanks for the tip Eugene! I will search the books!

> Lofting Problem: + or - , add or subtract !/16" usualy. but
go for a fair curve, no bumps or kinks.
> Try your public libray Reuel Parker --- "The New Cold-
Molded Boatbuilding or
> Buehlers Backyard Boat Building.
>
> gordocutter_1 <gordocutter_1@...> wrote:
> I recently receive the plans for the Maid of Endor that
I order, when
> I started studying the plans I faced my first problem, the table
of
> offsets has some numbers with the signal of addiction(+) and some
> with the signal of subtraction (-) for example 2.10¹/²- or
3.10³/²+,
> if somebody can tell me what the signals means, I would really
> appreciate the help.
> I bought the Greg Rössel book "Building Small Boats" but there
> is no example of numbers like these using the signal of addition
or
> subtraction, although the book is very good in the part of
lofting.
> I think is obviously that is my first lofting and if there is any
tip
> of you folks, who have already pass by these problems I would
really
> appreciate the help. Thanks !
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
• ... example are 2.11¹/²+ that s exactly how is written.Somebody sad that the plus and the minus are sixteenths, an others sad that those are eights, but the
Message 17 of 25 , Feb 4, 2008
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--- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Don Douglas" <douglashome@...>
wrote:
> Thanks for the help Douglas, one of the numbers of the table for
example are 2.11¹/²+ that's exactly how is written.Somebody sad that
the plus and the minus are sixteenths, an others sad that those are
eights, but the plans that Ihave specified the dimensions in feet's
and inches, so at the end I just don't now were to go at all.

> The + sign means the actual measurement is a little over the
stated dimension and the - means it is a little less. So if the
measurement was 2 10 1/2+ then the actual measurement is a little
over 1/2". This would be easier to pick up if you gave us the
smallest fraction used. Let's say everything is in 1/4" increments,
then the +/- would take you to the +1/8 or -1/8" from the stated
point.
>
> Hope that helps
> Don Douglas
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: gordocutter_1
> To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 5:35 PM
> Subject: [AtkinBoats] Problem in the Lofting
>
>
> I recently receive the plans for the Maid of Endor that I order,
when
> I started studying the plans I faced my first problem, the table
of
> offsets has some numbers with the signal of addiction(+) and
some
> with the signal of subtraction (-) for example 2.10¹/²- or
3.10³/²+,
> if somebody can tell me what the signals means, I would really
> appreciate the help.
> I bought the Greg Rössel book "Building Small Boats" but there
> is no example of numbers like these using the signal of addition
or
> subtraction, although the book is very good in the part of
lofting.
> I think is obviously that is my first lofting and if there is
any tip
> of you folks, who have already pass by these problems I would
really
> appreciate the help. Thanks !
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
• ... info about that, some say that these are sixteenths, others says what you are saying, I m standing in the middle try to discovery what it is. Thanks for
Message 18 of 25 , Feb 4, 2008
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--- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, Aquiles Rösner
<aquiles.roesner@...> wrote:
>Thanks for the help Aquiles, it looks like we have controversial
info about that, some say that these are sixteenths, others says
what you are saying, I'm standing in the middle try to discovery
what it is. Thanks for the tip of the book I will search for it.
>
>
>
> Am Freitag, den 01.02.2008, 16:08 -0700 schrieb Chris Kottaridis:
> >
> > On Thu, 2008-01-31 at 21:38 -0500, Ron Butterfield wrote:
> >
> > > > with the signal of subtraction (-) for example 2.10¹/²- or
3.10³/²
> > +,
> >
> > the 3/2 seems odd, wouldn't that show up as 3.11 1/2+ ???
> >
> > Chris Kottaridis (chriskot@...)
>
> An other important boock only about lofting is "Lofting" from
Allan H.
> Happy lofting
> Aquiles from Germany
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
• I have Rossel s book Building Small Boats plus The Boatbuilder s Apprentice and find a lot of good information from those two. But if you are going to
Message 19 of 25 , Feb 4, 2008
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I have Rossel's book "Building Small Boats" plus "The Boatbuilder's Apprentice" and find a lot of good information from those two. But if you are going to build the Maid of Endor design, I suggest that you get (or steal) Chapelle's book since it is a benchmark of boat building and information that you will need. Also of good reference for the type of boat you are going to build are these two books: "How To Build A Wooden Boat" by David C. "Bud" McIntosh and "Details of Classic Boat Construction" by Larry Pardey. These two books along with Chapelle's "Boatbuilding" are the most reread books in my library. Also you might pick up these two for more details on lofting: "Lofting" by Allan H. Vaitses and "Mystic Seaport Boatshop Lofting Manual" by Barry Thomas and Chris Rawlings. They give some additional perspective on lofting but you can learn more than needed from Chapelle's chapter on Lofting in "Boatbuilding".

You and I are in the same boat so to speak with our choices of builds. I am going after Atkin's Perigee which is similar to Maid of Endor but about 3' shorter. And these are our first "real" boats!

Have fun building and don't worry about making mistakes and starting some part over. It is just a part of building.

Don Douglas

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
• ... now looking for the Chapelle s book (if I can t find it I ll be glad to stele it ) and all of the others books that you listed, in special the Lofting
Message 20 of 25 , Feb 4, 2008
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--- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Don Douglas" <douglashome@...>
wrote:
>Thank you very much, Douglas for your help and attention, I'm right
now looking for the Chapelle's book (if I can't find it I'll be glad
to stele it ) and all of the others books that you listed, in
special the "Lofting" by Allan H. Vaitses.
It is great to hear that I not the only one getting in these
adventure in building a boat that requires so much knowledge for
building it. I will be glad in see and hearing any progress in your
boat.Good Luck !
By the way I saw the plans of Perigee in the Atkin's page and her
lines are very beautiful nice choice.

> I have Rossel's book "Building Small Boats" plus "The
Boatbuilder's Apprentice" and find a lot of good information from
those two. But if you are going to build the Maid of Endor design,
I suggest that you get (or steal) Chapelle's book since it is a
benchmark of boat building and information that you will need. Also
of good reference for the type of boat you are going to build are
these two books: "How To Build A Wooden Boat" by David C. "Bud"
McIntosh and "Details of Classic Boat Construction" by Larry
Pardey. These two books along with Chapelle's "Boatbuilding" are
the most reread books in my library. Also you might pick up these
two for more details on lofting: "Lofting" by Allan H. Vaitses
and "Mystic Seaport Boatshop Lofting Manual" by Barry Thomas and
Chris Rawlings. They give some additional perspective on lofting
Lofting in "Boatbuilding".
>
> You and I are in the same boat so to speak with our choices of
builds. I am going after Atkin's Perigee which is similar to Maid
of Endor but about 3' shorter. And these are our first "real" boats!
>
> Have fun building and don't worry about making mistakes and
starting some part over. It is just a part of building.
>
> Don Douglas
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
• Yep, that should solve Adaucto s problem. While feet, inches and eighths are the rule for offsets, some of the Atkin plans use feet and fractional inches. In
Message 21 of 25 , Feb 4, 2008
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Yep, that should solve Adaucto's problem. While feet, inches and eighths
are the "rule" for offsets, some of the Atkin plans use feet and
fractional inches. In either case, + means add 1/16" and - means
substract 1/16". Thanks for looking at the plans and providing an

It can't be stated often enough that all of the Atkin plans, except for a
few of the very simplest little boats, require complete lofting! That
doesn't mean just drawing the sections full-size; o, that way madness
lies, my friends! All three views: profile, plan and sections have to be
laid down and faired until they agree with each other. Anything less will
result in extra work later, at best, or mishapen atrocity, at worst.
<harumph>

If you don't have room to lay down the lines full size, then where are you
gonna find room to build the boat? But there are sometimes special
circumstances where there isn't room to loft full size. Don't use that as
an excuse to skip lofting altogether! Loft at 1/2 size, or what ever
convenient fraction will, fit -- as big as you can. But try as hard as you
can to do a proper lofting at full size. It's more accurate, and you can
make patterns directly from your lofting.

You'll thank yourself many times as you're building that you did a proper
job of lofting at the start.

On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 18:59:31 -0800, George C wrote:

> The gentlman that asked this question had several typos in the
> dimensions he listed. The example he gave 3.10 3/2+, is really 3-10 3/4
> +. The Maiden of Endor offsets are in feet, inches, fraction of an inch
> down to an eights with the +/- indicator for sixteenths.

--
John <jkohnen@...>
Many a man has fallen in love with a girl in light so dim he
would not have chosen a suit by it. <Maurice Chevalier>
• One reason you have to loft hand-drawn plans is that the dimensions on the table of offsets are scaled from the lines plan. The lines plan for a 20 boat
Message 22 of 25 , Feb 5, 2008
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One reason you have to loft hand-drawn plans is that the dimensions on
the table of offsets are scaled from the lines plan. The lines plan
for a 20' boat might be at the scale 1"=1'; for a larger boat the scale
could be smaller. The smallest division on a 1"=1' architect's scale
is 1/4", and designers figure that they can read to 1/2 of the smallest
division, or 1/8". 1/16" is less than the thickness of the pencil
line, so there's no point in writing 16ths. Anything that is not quite
on an even 1/8" is designated with a + or -, but the exact value is not
quantified.

I've found that some William Atkin tables of offsets in MotorBoating
articles have one or two gross errors that are clearly the result of
mis-scaling the drawings. I suppose he turned out some of those
designs on a pretty tight deadline and didn't have time for really
careful checking.
• Hi Folks, I m currently lofting a set of River Belle plans and notice that the forward end of the engine centre line is angled laterally off to Port. I
Message 23 of 25 , Mar 11, 2008
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Hi Folks,

I'm currently lofting a set of "River Belle" plans and notice that the
forward end of the engine centre line is angled laterally off to Port. I
assume this has been done to offset "prop walk" effects.

I have just acquired a suitable engine & gearbox which rotates
anti-clockwise when viewed from astern and will therefore require a Left
Hand propeller I think. Whilst no comment is made in the description of the
boat about propeller rotation or the engine offset, I'm assuming that this
will then require the offset of the engine centreline to be changed to
Starboard.

Has anybody any thoughts ?

Alan.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
• Yep, you ve got it figured out right, Alan. With a left-hand propeller angle the front of the engine off to starboard. ... -- John
Message 24 of 25 , Mar 17, 2008
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Yep, you've got it figured out right, Alan. With a left-hand propeller
angle the front of the engine off to starboard.

On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 03:32:18 -0700, Alan B wrote:

> I'm currently lofting a set of "River Belle" plans and notice that the
> forward end of the engine centre line is angled laterally off to Port. I
> assume this has been done to offset "prop walk" effects.
>
> I have just acquired a suitable engine & gearbox which rotates
> anti-clockwise when viewed from astern and will therefore require a Left
> Hand propeller I think. Whilst no comment is made in the description of
> the
> boat about propeller rotation or the engine offset, I'm assuming that
> this
> will then require the offset of the engine centreline to be changed to
> Starboard.

--
John <jkohnen@...>
Never put off until tomorrow what you can do the day after
tomorrow. <Mark Twain>
• Thanks for that John! Another aspect that I am much less sure about is the shaft elevation. The engine I have would allow the shaft to be angled much nearer to
Message 25 of 25 , Mar 17, 2008
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Thanks for that John!

Another aspect that I am much less sure about is the shaft elevation.

The engine I have would allow the shaft to be angled much nearer to the
horizontal than Atkin specified and that would be good for efficiency I
think (in theory at least). However, I wonder if the hull design relies on
an element of lift from the down angled prop to ultimately provide level
operation.

Atkin apparently always said "don't modify anything" and I am very happy
with that, but I am still curious..................

What do people think ??

Alan

-----Original Message-----
From: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of John Kohnen
Sent: Monday, 17 March 2008 6:39 PM
To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AtkinBoats] Engine not aligned with Keel

Yep, you've got it figured out right, Alan. With a left-hand propeller
angle the front of the engine off to starboard.

On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 03:32:18 -0700, Alan B wrote:

> I'm currently lofting a set of "River Belle" plans and notice that the
> forward end of the engine centre line is angled laterally off to Port. I
> assume this has been done to offset "prop walk" effects.
>
> I have just acquired a suitable engine & gearbox which rotates
> anti-clockwise when viewed from astern and will therefore require a Left
> Hand propeller I think. Whilst no comment is made in the description of
> the
> boat about propeller rotation or the engine offset, I'm assuming that
> this
> will then require the offset of the engine centreline to be changed to
> Starboard.

--
John <jkohnen@...>
Never put off until tomorrow what you can do the day after
tomorrow. <Mark Twain>

------------------------------------

No flaming, cursing, politics, religion or public mopery. Please be polite.

If you set out to build an Atkin boat, please do not modify the plans. If
you stray from the plans you do so at your own risk and Atkin & Co. will
take no responsibility for the performance of the resulting boat.

The current Atkin boat plans catalog is online at
<http://www.atkinboatplans.com/>