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Little Effort modifications

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  • adharvey2
    I m still kicking around the possibility of building Little Effort to use for a combination fishing/day cruising boat on a large lake. To recap: I started
    Message 1 of 6 , Nov 23, 2007
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      I'm still kicking around the possibility of building Little Effort to
      use for a combination fishing/day cruising boat on a large lake. To
      recap: I started looking at this boat a couple of years ago because I
      liked the idea of solving the problem of the steep 2-3 ft chop one
      encounters on large lakes by using a long and narrow hull rather than
      a heavy and deep displacement hull or a deep V hull. Then, after I got
      the study plans, I shelved idea when I realized just how small the
      cabin on this boat really was, but since then I have been
      contemplating some solutions to that problem so I'll toss them out here.
      I'd like to have at least 51" of room at the centerline from
      cabin sole to the deck house beams so that I can step, rather than
      crawl, into the cabin and be able to sit upright on the low seats
      without hitting my head. As drawn the plans provide 45", so I need to
      pickup at least 6" somehow.
      Whatever amount I can't get some other way I'll have to gain by
      raising the cabin roof, but I'd like to do as little of that as
      possible. Maybe 2 - 3 inches at most. I don't want to spoil the
      charactor, or performance, of the boat.
      I have two additional ideas. One is ommitting 3 floors under the
      cabin foot well. Like Russell R, Little Effort has a crossed planked
      bottom with side frames but no bottom frames. Unlike the outboard
      version, however, L.E. has floors and floor boards. This extra
      structure certainly makes for a stiffer bottom which may be neccessary
      because of the inboard installation. But the floors do not attach to
      the sides of the boat in any way, they just act as beams to hold up
      the floor boards. I think, if neccessry, I could regain some of the
      lost stiffness by putting a cabin sole directly on the keelsons by
      either cross planking or with plywood. Also I am counting on the added
      srenghth of the sheet plywood bottom I'll be using to add rigidity to
      the structure, as opposed to the original cross planking. In anycase I
      would gain 1 to 1 1/2 in.
      My second idea is to use a laminated veneer cabin roof, rather
      than the beams and planking specified. Somewhere I read of sombody
      doing this. 3 or 4 layers of 1/8 plywood epoxy laminated in the crown
      specified, perhaps fiberglassed both sides, ought to make a fairly
      rigid panel, which could save another 1 1/2".
      That would leave 3" or so to be made up by raising the cabin top.
      I have played around with this in autocad and it looks fine to me.
      I think this could be a really easy to live with trailerable
      daycruiser, as long as you don't invite 10 people aboard! It's bound
      to be about the lightest and easiest to launch 24 footer around! I
      would build it lapstrake, like Russell R., using playwood planks, so
      it could spend the winter on it's trailer at 10% humidity without a
      problem.
      Of course already having what I think is an ideal engine for this
      boat is and incentive also.

      Andrew Harvey
    • cliff wilson
      ... both of those ideas you mentioned came across my table while redesigning my 18 ft redwing, my solution,... in combination with a laminated roof is to hinge
      Message 2 of 6 , Nov 23, 2007
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        --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "adharvey2" <adharvey@...> wrote:
        >
        > I'm still kicking around the possibility of building Little Effort to
        > use for a combination fishing/day cruising boat on a large lake. To
        > recap: I started looking at this boat a couple of years ago because I
        > liked the idea of solving the problem of the steep 2-3 ft chop one
        > encounters on large lakes by using a long and narrow hull rather than
        > a heavy and deep displacement hull or a deep V hull. Then, after I got
        > the study plans, I shelved idea when I realized just how small the
        > cabin on this boat really was, but since then I have been
        > contemplating some solutions to that problem so I'll toss them out here.
        > I'd like to have at least 51" of room at the centerline from
        > cabin sole to the deck house beams so that I can step, rather than
        > crawl, into the cabin and be able to sit upright on the low seats
        > without hitting my head. As drawn the plans provide 45", so I need to
        > pickup at least 6" somehow.
        > Whatever amount I can't get some other way I'll have to gain by
        > raising the cabin roof, but I'd like to do as little of that as
        > possible. Maybe 2 - 3 inches at most. I don't want to spoil the
        > charactor, or performance, of the boat.
        > I have two additional ideas. One is ommitting 3 floors under the
        > cabin foot well. Like Russell R, Little Effort has a crossed planked
        > bottom with side frames but no bottom frames. Unlike the outboard
        > version, however, L.E. has floors and floor boards. This extra
        > structure certainly makes for a stiffer bottom which may be neccessary
        > because of the inboard installation. But the floors do not attach to
        > the sides of the boat in any way, they just act as beams to hold up
        > the floor boards. I think, if neccessry, I could regain some of the
        > lost stiffness by putting a cabin sole directly on the keelsons by
        > either cross planking or with plywood. Also I am counting on the added
        > srenghth of the sheet plywood bottom I'll be using to add rigidity to
        > the structure, as opposed to the original cross planking. In anycase I
        > would gain 1 to 1 1/2 in.
        > My second idea is to use a laminated veneer cabin roof, rather
        > than the beams and planking specified. Somewhere I read of sombody
        > doing this. 3 or 4 layers of 1/8 plywood epoxy laminated in the crown
        > specified, perhaps fiberglassed both sides, ought to make a fairly
        > rigid panel, which could save another 1 1/2".
        > That would leave 3" or so to be made up by raising the cabin top.
        > I have played around with this in autocad and it looks fine to me.
        > I think this could be a really easy to live with trailerable
        > daycruiser, as long as you don't invite 10 people aboard! It's bound
        > to be about the lightest and easiest to launch 24 footer around! I
        > would build it lapstrake, like Russell R., using playwood planks, so
        > it could spend the winter on it's trailer at 10% humidity without a
        > problem.
        > Of course already having what I think is an ideal engine for this
        > boat is and incentive also.
        >
        > Andrew Harvey
        >
        both of those ideas you mentioned came across my table while
        redesigning my 18 ft redwing, my solution,... in combination with a
        laminated roof is to hinge the cabin top in the front and canvass the
        sides so I can raise it when I need to and lower it when under way
        ,...dont know if that helps or not , just thought I would offer
      • DirtSailor
        both of those ideas you mentioned came across my table while redesigning my 18 ft redwing, my solution,... in combination with a laminated roof is to hinge
        Message 3 of 6 , Nov 24, 2007
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          "both of those ideas you mentioned came across my table while
          redesigning my 18 ft redwing, my solution,... in combination with a
          laminated roof is to hinge the cabin top in the front and canvass the
          sides so I can raise it when I need to and lower it when under way
          ,...dont know if that helps or not , just thought I would offer"

          Something along the lines like this maybe:

          http://tinyurl.com/yrebe2

          http://flickr.com/photos/dirtsailor2003/709299845/in/set-72157600631852916/

          This boat has been at several boat shows I have been at. Great idea and provides a nice space.

          Dirtsailor


          ____________________________________________________________________________________
          Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
          http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • clifford wilson
          Yea I hadnt actualy seen that one , but Had the same Idea DirtSailor wrote: both of those ideas you
          Message 4 of 6 , Nov 24, 2007
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            Yea I hadnt actualy seen that one , but Had the same Idea

            DirtSailor <dirtsailor2003@...> wrote: "both of those ideas you mentioned came across my table while
            redesigning my 18 ft redwing, my solution,... in combination with a
            laminated roof is to hinge the cabin top in the front and canvass the
            sides so I can raise it when I need to and lower it when under way
            ,...dont know if that helps or not , just thought I would offer"

            Something along the lines like this maybe:

            http://tinyurl.com/yrebe2

            http://flickr.com/photos/dirtsailor2003/709299845/in/set-72157600631852916/

            This boat has been at several boat shows I have been at. Great idea and provides a nice space.

            Dirtsailor

            __________________________________________________________
            Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
            http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






            ---------------------------------
            Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • EUGENE DIXON
            See Sam Rabel Backyard Boatbuilding Titmouse . called canoe yawl by English. Hinge cabintop plus mast in tabernacle;
            Message 5 of 6 , Nov 25, 2007
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              See Sam Rabel "Backyard Boatbuilding' 'Titmouse". called canoe yawl by English. Hinge cabintop plus mast in tabernacle;    





              s

              clifford wilson <vidiohunter@...> wrote:
              Yea I hadnt actualy seen that one , but Had the same Idea

              DirtSailor <dirtsailor2003@...> wrote: "both of those ideas you mentioned came across my table while
              redesigning my 18 ft redwing, my solution,... in combination with a
              laminated roof is to hinge the cabin top in the front and canvass the
              sides so I can raise it when I need to and lower it when under way
              ,...dont know if that helps or not , just thought I would offer"

              Something along the lines like this maybe:

              http://tinyurl.com/yrebe2

              http://flickr.com/photos/dirtsailor2003/709299845/in/set-72157600631852916/

              This boat has been at several boat shows I have been at. Great idea and provides a nice space.

              Dirtsailor

              __________________________________________________________
              Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
              http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





              ---------------------------------
              Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • John Kohnen
              You ve been doing some good thinking. The floors aren t structurally important, so there s a little bit more headroom. Eliminating the beams and laminating the
              Message 6 of 6 , Nov 25, 2007
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                You've been doing some good thinking. The floors aren't structurally
                important, so there's a little bit more headroom. Eliminating the beams
                and laminating the roof is a good idea. There are a couple of tricks to
                gain headroom without raising the cabin sides. One is to make a large
                companionway hatch and be satisfied with 51" of headroom only under the
                hatch (that's why you make it big <g>). Another trick is to increase the
                crown of the cabin top. That'll give you more headroom on the centerline,
                but it camouflages the extra height of the cabin. It may even have less
                effective windage than a cabin with higher sides.

                Pop-top cabins, though less extreme than the one on the skiff Dirt showed
                us, have been used for a long time on sailing yachts on the Norfolk Broads
                in England. Searching around on the 'net for Broads yachts may lead you to
                inspiration.

                I forgot, what's that ideal engine you've got for Little Effort?

                On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 13:47:04 -0800, Andrew wrote:

                > I'm still kicking around the possibility of building Little Effort
                > ...
                > I'd like to have at least 51" of room at the centerline from
                > cabin sole to the deck house beams so that I can step, rather than
                > crawl, into the cabin and be able to sit upright on the low seats
                > without hitting my head. As drawn the plans provide 45", so I need to
                > pickup at least 6" somehow.
                > Whatever amount I can't get some other way I'll have to gain by
                > raising the cabin roof, but I'd like to do as little of that as
                > possible. Maybe 2 - 3 inches at most. I don't want to spoil the
                > charactor, or performance, of the boat.
                > I have two additional ideas. One is ommitting 3 floors under the
                > cabin foot well. Like Russell R, Little Effort has a crossed planked
                > bottom with side frames but no bottom frames. Unlike the outboard
                > version, however, L.E. has floors and floor boards. This extra
                > structure certainly makes for a stiffer bottom which may be neccessary
                > because of the inboard installation. But the floors do not attach to
                > the sides of the boat in any way, they just act as beams to hold up
                > the floor boards. I think, if neccessry, I could regain some of the
                > lost stiffness by putting a cabin sole directly on the keelsons by
                > either cross planking or with plywood. Also I am counting on the added
                > srenghth of the sheet plywood bottom I'll be using to add rigidity to
                > the structure, as opposed to the original cross planking. In anycase I
                > would gain 1 to 1 1/2 in.
                > My second idea is to use a laminated veneer cabin roof, rather
                > than the beams and planking specified. Somewhere I read of sombody
                > doing this. 3 or 4 layers of 1/8 plywood epoxy laminated in the crown
                > specified, perhaps fiberglassed both sides, ought to make a fairly
                > rigid panel, which could save another 1 1/2".
                > That would leave 3" or so to be made up by raising the cabin top.
                > ...

                --
                John <jkohnen@...>
                If perfection were needed for friendship the world would be a
                wilderness for our love. <Thomas Jefferson>
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