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Re: [AtkinBoats] Perigee building will commence

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  • pipercubdream@aol.com
    Don, I m glad to hear that you are building perigee, it is a little boat that I ve long admired. I live in Michigan and i wanted something I could trailer
    Message 1 of 9 , Oct 23, 2007
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      Don,

      I'm glad to hear that you are building perigee, it is a little boat that
      I've long admired. I live in Michigan and i wanted something I could trailer
      from here to Florida for some serious sailing in the Keys. Have you ever
      found any other pictures or reference to this boat? The only info I've ever
      found is on the Atkins site with the one picture. As you progress please let us
      know how it is going, I would love to see some picture of the interior. This
      boat is on my short list (perigee, little dipper, eric jr., and a couple
      others).

      Regards,

      Ben



      ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • John Kohnen
      The southern yellow pine Wm. Atkin was writing about is just about impossible to get ahold of nowadays. The SYP from plantations is another animal altogether.
      Message 2 of 9 , Oct 23, 2007
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        The southern yellow pine Wm. Atkin was writing about is just about
        impossible to get ahold of nowadays. The SYP from plantations is another
        animal altogether. :o( Douglas fir has been used for backbones, but the
        heavy, old-growth fir for that is only a little bit easier to get than
        old-growth SYP. Many builders now use tropical hardwoods for keels and
        such. Some of them, like purpleheart, are relatively cheap and are
        supposed to be sustainably logged. The tropical woods are hard to work
        (ask the fellow I know who carved a "bread and butter" horseshoe stern for
        a big fishing boat out of purpleheart!) but strong and durable. Better
        than oak, SYP or Douglas fir, and maybe easier to get your hands on
        thousands of miles from salt water.

        The oak you'll need for Perigee's bent ribs will be a problem. What you'll
        want is _green_ oak -- pretty hard to come by in a state with no oak
        trees! Air-dried might work OK, but kiln dried is worthless for bending,
        and it seems like all the lumber dealers stock kiln-dried wood. :o(

        On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 19:27:50 -0700, Don D> wrote:

        > ...
        Living in Colorado is beautiful but
        > don't try to find much in the way of boat building wood here. I have
        > 3 wood suppliers here that I can get some stuff from: white oak,
        > Douglas Fir, some tropical stuff etc, but nothing that I can use for
        > my keel and deadwood. The Perigee plans spec out white oak for the
        > keel backbone, deadwood, sternpost and stem, but try to find
        > 4"x16"x12' white oak in a state that does not have a single native
        > oak tree! Atkin mentioned many times that he would use Southern
        > Yellow Pine in place of white oak for these pieces but that does not
        > grow here either.
        > ...

        --
        John <jkohnen@...>
        One of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous
        citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases
        which our founding fathers used in the great struggle for
        independence. <Charles A. Beard>
      • Don Douglas
        Thanks John, I had not thought much about some of the tropical hardwoods and will double check that option. One of the supplies of specialty woods here does
        Message 3 of 9 , Oct 23, 2007
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          Thanks John,

          I had not thought much about some of the tropical hardwoods and will
          double check that option. One of the supplies of specialty woods here does
          carry purpleheart and I will check the price, but he said it is hard to get
          16/4 boards of anything. I have found another wood source in Colorado about
          100 miles south of me that has lots of white oak in wide boards but nothing
          in the thickness I need. As a last resort I could probably laminate 2"
          boards to make the main timber. For the frames I am leaning toward
          laminating those from 1/4" or 3/16" thick strips to build up the 7/8" x 7/8"
          frames required.
          On another note, I am still blown away that a 17'3" boat has 1400 pounds
          of lead in the keel! I have 450 pounds now and collecting every week. The
          tire stores call me the "guy building the boat"...

          Later,
          Don Douglas


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "John Kohnen" <jkohnen@...>
          To: <AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 10:43 PM
          Subject: Re: [AtkinBoats] Perigee building will commence


          > The southern yellow pine Wm. Atkin was writing about is just about
          > impossible to get ahold of nowadays. The SYP from plantations is another
          > animal altogether. :o( Douglas fir has been used for backbones, but the
          > heavy, old-growth fir for that is only a little bit easier to get than
          > old-growth SYP. Many builders now use tropical hardwoods for keels and
          > such. Some of them, like purpleheart, are relatively cheap and are
          > supposed to be sustainably logged. The tropical woods are hard to work
          > (ask the fellow I know who carved a "bread and butter" horseshoe stern for
          > a big fishing boat out of purpleheart!) but strong and durable. Better
          > than oak, SYP or Douglas fir, and maybe easier to get your hands on
          > thousands of miles from salt water.
          >
          > The oak you'll need for Perigee's bent ribs will be a problem. What you'll
          > want is _green_ oak -- pretty hard to come by in a state with no oak
          > trees! Air-dried might work OK, but kiln dried is worthless for bending,
          > and it seems like all the lumber dealers stock kiln-dried wood. :o(
          >
          > On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 19:27:50 -0700, Don D> wrote:
          >
          >> ...
          > Living in Colorado is beautiful but
          >> don't try to find much in the way of boat building wood here. I have
          >> 3 wood suppliers here that I can get some stuff from: white oak,
          >> Douglas Fir, some tropical stuff etc, but nothing that I can use for
          >> my keel and deadwood. The Perigee plans spec out white oak for the
          >> keel backbone, deadwood, sternpost and stem, but try to find
          >> 4"x16"x12' white oak in a state that does not have a single native
          >> oak tree! Atkin mentioned many times that he would use Southern
          >> Yellow Pine in place of white oak for these pieces but that does not
          >> grow here either.
          >> ...
          >
          > --
          > John <jkohnen@...>
          > One of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous
          > citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases
          > which our founding fathers used in the great struggle for
          > independence. <Charles A. Beard>
          >
          >
          > No flaming, cursing, politics, religion or public mopery. Please be
          > polite.
          >
          > If you set out to build an Atkin boat, please do not modify the plans. If
          > you stray from the plans you do so at your own risk and Atkin & Co. will
          > take no responsibility for the performance of the resulting boat.
          >
          > The current Atkin boat plans catalog is online at
          > <http://www.atkinboatplans.com/>
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • ehrenherman
          large fir timbers green or otherwise not a problem http://www.greatnorthernlumber.com/index.html I believe they have fir timbers up to 24x24xamileandahalf in
          Message 4 of 9 , Oct 29, 2007
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            large fir timbers green or otherwise not a problem
            http://www.greatnorthernlumber.com/index.html I believe they have fir
            timbers up to 24x24xamileandahalf in ohio if I recall.
          • Don Douglas
            Thanks for the suggestion. Have you used them before? It is 1027 miles to their warehouse! But not much different than going to south Texas/Arkansas, etc.
            Message 5 of 9 , Oct 30, 2007
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              Thanks for the suggestion. Have you used them before? It is 1027 miles to their warehouse! But not much different than going to south Texas/Arkansas, etc. Think I will send them an email.

              Thanks,
              Don Douglas


              ----- Original Message -----
              From: ehrenherman
              To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 11:23 PM
              Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: Perigee building will commence


              large fir timbers green or otherwise not a problem
              http://www.greatnorthernlumber.com/index.html I believe they have fir
              timbers up to 24x24xamileandahalf in ohio if I recall.





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • John Kohnen
              If you re willing to laminate the frames, you can laminate the backbone too, Don. It d even have advantages if the boat is going to be trailered. People have
              Message 6 of 9 , Oct 30, 2007
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                If you're willing to laminate the frames, you can laminate the backbone
                too, Don. It'd even have advantages if the boat is going to be trailered.
                People have reported failures over time with gluing white oak with epoxy,
                and also with some oily tropical hardwoods. The Gougeon brothers have a
                new epoxy that's supposed to work better with difficult woods, but it's
                probably still best to use woods you _know_ glue well with epoxy for
                laminated frame members. Mahogany and Douglas fir are among the strong
                woods that glue well with epoxy. There are really only a few woods that
                don't.

                On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 12:11:43 -0700, Don D wrote:

                > Thanks for the suggestion. Have you used them before? It is 1027 miles
                > to their warehouse! But not much different than going to south
                > Texas/Arkansas, etc. Think I will send them an email.
                > ...
                > http://www.greatnorthernlumber.com/index.html I believe they have fir
                > timbers up to 24x24xamileandahalf in ohio if I recall.

                --
                John <jkohnen@...>
                When I reflect upon the number of disagreeable people who I know
                have gone to a better world, I am moved to lead a different
                life. <Mark Twain>
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