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Re: [AtkinBoats] Re: Best Design

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  • Kenneth Grome
    ... Okay let s take a look and see what they offer. These are the only Atkin sailboat designs online that meet your criteria: 1- GUNDRED - 40 4 Double-Ended
    Message 1 of 9 , Aug 1, 2007
      > Now, I would like to discuss Atkins design....


      Okay let's take a look and see what they offer. These are the only
      Atkin sailboat designs online that meet your criteria:

      1- GUNDRED - 40' 4" Double-Ended Ketch
      2- LITTLE RANGER - 42' 8 1/2" Double-Ended Ketch
      3- VEGA - 44' Ketch-Rigged Motorsailer
      4- MISSIE AND LAURIE - 45' Double-Ended Sharpie Sloop

      The first two are virtual carbon copies of each other, differing only in
      size and interior layout. The third has a different rig and transom.
      The fourth is a flat bottom double-ended sharpie hull with yet another
      rig.

      Do you have a preference? If so, which one and why? Are any of these
      boats big enough, or do you actually want something bigger? Which
      would you eliminate from consideration and for what reasons?

      Sincerely,
      Ken Grome
      Bagacay Boatworks
      www.bagacayboatworks.com
    • Don Douglas
      Great discussion topic. I agree that Gundred and Little Ranger look similar except in size and layout but a study of the water lines and diagonals will tell
      Message 2 of 9 , Aug 1, 2007
        Great discussion topic. I agree that Gundred and Little Ranger look similar except in size and layout but a study of the water lines and diagonals will tell you that both will behave differently in the water. My humble opinion is that Gundred would be a smoother boat to cruise on but Little Ranger will definitely be faster. Both from the waterline length and the underbody shape. I am not naval architect, just a reader and studier. If I am wrong, tell me, you will only help my education. Vega has a better layout for a group of 4 people on a cruise and the raised deck would give lots of space to lounge around on. That would give you something to think about when 4 people have been side by side on a 3 week crossing of the Atlantic. Missie and Laurie is just not what floats my boat in design for a cruising boat, but I am biased.

        So Samuel, good luck with the decision making and building!

        Don Douglas


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • snaglefriz
        ... I have built a few small boats for fun. I must warn you, when I was 10 years old my buddies and me built our first boat. Dang, it sank!!! We thought wood
        Message 3 of 9 , Aug 4, 2007
          --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Samuel" <samang2@...> wrote:
          >
          > I would like to ask what would be the best Atkin design to go on a
          > world cruise with. There will be four of us. I am looking for something
          > around 40-50 feet. It will be built of wood.


          I have built a few small boats for fun. I must warn you, when I was 10
          years old my buddies and me built our first boat. Dang, it sank!!! We
          thought wood floated. Upon seeing our failure this old timer proceeded
          to explain words like Displacement and Stability. With a few
          modifications our boat did float and many of us have since built
          floating boats. But, I am not a Master Boat builder.
          I have seen people in smaller sailboats than what you mention and they
          did admit bigger would been better. I look and see 5 boats in your range.
          Now we need the process of elimination. Fist consider sails. Missie
          and Laurie is a Sloop one mast big sails. I would scratch this one off
          my list. In my opinion a Ketch/Yawl spread out the sail area over 2
          masts and you may find this more manageable. So, now you down to four
          boats. Now Magpie, this a Schooner. This a nice boat, but, may be a
          little hard to handle the a Ketch/Yawl. So, I would scratch this boat
          off my list. Now, I/We have 3 to choose.
          I like the Gaff-Rigs, the sails can be shortened easier for myself and
          they look good. Also, with some thinking the sails can be designed so
          you have a "Topsail" over the Main Sail. It gives it a Marconi look.
          Many refer to the 3 sided or triangular sail as a Marconi Sail getting
          this name for its similarity to the Radio Towers built by Guglielmo
          Marconi. Marconi Sails use more stays for support. OK, lets look at
          our last 3 boats. Well, that was easy, Vega has a Gaff mainsail, this
          could be shorter and a Top Sail made to fit above. True, we can
          probably make the other 2 boats Gaff-Rigs as well with some thought.
          Now, as I said at the first, I no Master Boat builder, never built a
          boat over 20 feet actually. And I not know a lot of sail design as I
          just used sails that came with the bigger boats, which are Marconi
          Sails. My brother has 2, one is a 24' the other 32' both day-sailers.
          So, from my quick look and elimination, for "Myself" I would probably
          go with the Vega. It seems to have a nice layout below with Berths in
          the Stern for people and a forward berth.
          Now here some more thought on my part. Resistance to Capsize. This is
          a complicated math that I know nothing about, but, there is a simple
          formula many have used and I use it to figure my number. What "I" have
          been told, is the number should be less than "2" anything above that
          number will be more vulnerable to capsizing in rough conditions. I
          not sure how big a deal this would be and not a Naval Architect. I
          tried to crunch the numbers and it seem to be 5+ which may be
          something a person want to consider. Here how the math works.
          Divide boat weight by 64 for salt water, 62.2 for fresh water (this
          gives the boat volume in cubic feet). Divide the boat's beam by the
          "Cubed Root" of that sum and you get your number. Now calculators not
          have a cube function, or, mine does not. So, I have to Guess and work
          from that as I am not a Math Whiz. Let's look at Vega for example
          (Hope I understand the math).
          Vega says a Displacement of 40,500 and seems like a nice cruiser.
          40,500 / 64 = 632.81
          Now we find the cube and I start with 8. So, 8 x 8 x 8 = 512.
          9x9x9=729. So, somewhere in between is my number. 8.585 x 8.585 x
          8.585 = 632.73 close enough for me. It say her Breadth is 12 feet,
          sounds like beam to me. ;-) So, 12 / 8.858 = 1.35 and that looks good
          to me, it less than 2. I can see Vega be a good heavy cruiser that
          should hold her own in bad weather. She has a nice looking keel and
          lots of Ballast. I wish we had a picture of her finished in the water,
          to see how she really look.
          Next thing is Ballast. I asked here about Ballast and as of now no
          answer. But, Lead not cheap. Also, I not sure of subing from the
          Plans. Some thoughts I have on getting Ballast Cheap. Search around
          for old wood boats that ready for the Fireplace. They may have your
          lead and come free for the taking with some labor. May have to
          dismantle and burn the wood, but, you may have your lead.
          Well, I hope this help some, I no Guru of boats, but, this how I have
          narrowed my choices for something in the 30 + feet range. Good Luck!
        • snaglefriz
          It me again. I did want to tell you. I bought a book to help with building a larger boat. I guessing it best to read and learn, before spending a lot to build
          Message 4 of 9 , Aug 4, 2007
            It me again.
            I did want to tell you. I bought a book to help with building a larger
            boat. I guessing it best to read and learn, before spending a lot to
            build a big boat. I have built houses also and tell people, it easy to
            make a $5,000 mistake. I assume boats are the same, remember my
            friends and myself sunk boat? Though it was cheap enough, it required
            more material after and more un-needed labor, had we done to right the
            first time.
            The book I have is;
            The Gougeon Brothers On Boat Construction

            I not say it the best and maybe others can give us some other good
            books to help circumvent the $5,000 mistake. ;-)
          • Lewis E. Gordon
            If I had to limit my library one book, it would be Bud McIntosh s How To Build A Wooden Boat . Lewis
            Message 5 of 9 , Aug 4, 2007
              If I had to limit my library one book, it would be Bud McIntosh's "How
              To Build A Wooden Boat".

              Lewis

              --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "snaglefriz" <samofsmith@...> wrote:
              >
              > It me again.
              > I did want to tell you. I bought a book to help with building a larger
              > boat. I guessing it best to read and learn, before spending a lot to
              > build a big boat. I have built houses also and tell people, it easy to
              > make a $5,000 mistake. I assume boats are the same, remember my
              > friends and myself sunk boat? Though it was cheap enough, it required
              > more material after and more un-needed labor, had we done to right the
              > first time.
              > The book I have is;
              > The Gougeon Brothers On Boat Construction
              >
              > I not say it the best and maybe others can give us some other good
              > books to help circumvent the $5,000 mistake. ;-)
              >
            • snaglefriz
              ... That looks like a good book. I would rather spend a few bucks and read as it can help with choosing a good plan and doing a good work. Helps me focus on a
              Message 6 of 9 , Aug 4, 2007
                --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Lewis E. Gordon"
                <l_gordon_nica@...> wrote:
                >
                > If I had to limit my library one book, it would be Bud McIntosh's "How
                > To Build A Wooden Boat".
                >
                > Lewis

                That looks like a good book. I would rather spend a few bucks and read
                as it can help with choosing a good plan and doing a good work. Helps
                me focus on a "Game Plan" and not forget important little things that
                be hard to add later. If, I am able to build a big boat I want to do
                the best work and take my time. I starting to look more at "Nutmeg"
                but still open to opinions too. Thanks Lewis for the input on anther book.
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