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Best Design

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  • Samuel
    I would like to ask what would be the best Atkin design to go on a world cruise with. There will be four of us. I am looking for something around 40-50 feet.
    Message 1 of 9 , Aug 1, 2007
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      I would like to ask what would be the best Atkin design to go on a
      world cruise with. There will be four of us. I am looking for something
      around 40-50 feet. It will be built of wood. We will be traveling in
      very hot climates along the equator and will be visiting my relatives
      in northern Norway. I would like space to store spares for motor,sails
      ect,ect,ect.I tried to get advise on a "boat building" news group but I
      was constantly told under no circumstance should I build a boat, I told
      them they should shut the group down or rename it the pessimestic
      bastards newsgroup. I have built two houses and several skiffs so I
      have some woodworking exp. Any and all advice will be taken into
      consideration. Thank You, Sam
    • Kenneth Grome
      ... It depends upon the style of boat you want, and your specific needs. In this size range you can have lots of features not available on smaller boats. Do
      Message 2 of 9 , Aug 1, 2007
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        > What would be the best Atkin design to
        > go on a world cruise with. There will be
        > four of us. I am looking for something
        > around 40-50 feet.


        It depends upon the style of boat you want, and your specific needs. In
        this size range you can have lots of features not available on smaller
        boats.

        Do you want a sailboat with a small auxiliary engine? Or a power boat
        without sails? Or a motorsailer?

        It will take years to build it even if you work at it full time, unless
        you have a crew of builders. Even then it will take a ton of
        proficient pre-planning to get it done quickly, but perhaps you're not
        concerned about how long before you set sail?

        I would not limit myself to an Atkin designs either. There are only
        four or five of them online. Why not consider boats from other
        designers in this size range ... from a designer who is still alive to
        support you with answers to your building questions?

        Phil Bolger seems to garner a lot of interest in boats this size, and
        you can ask him questions and get fast answers if you buy plans from
        him. There is an active discussion group for Bolger boats too:

        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/

        Finally, don't ignore the possibility of having the boat built for you.
        I can build and deliver some boats for no more than the cost of
        materials in the USA, that's how huge the price difference can be
        sometimes between materials and labor in different parts of the world.

        Whatever you do, best of luck in this endeavor!

        Sincerely,
        Ken Grome
        Bagacay Boatworks
        www.bagacayboatworks.com
      • Samuel
        It will be a sailboat with an auxiliary engine, I looked at some Bolger boats and my God, How ugly are they? Don t like them and don t like there lines.
        Message 3 of 9 , Aug 1, 2007
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          It will be a sailboat with an auxiliary engine, I looked at some
          Bolger boats and my God, How ugly are they? Don't like them and don't
          like there lines. Besides, I thought this was a site for Atkins
          design? I know it will take a few years to build this vessel. I do
          have several friends with engineering and carpentry expirence. And if
          I didn't know any better, it sounds as if you were trying to solicit
          some buisiness from me. Now, I would like to discuss Atkins design....


          --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, Kenneth Grome
          <bagacayboatworks@...> wrote:
          >
          > > What would be the best Atkin design to
          > > go on a world cruise with. There will be
          > > four of us. I am looking for something
          > > around 40-50 feet.
          >
          >
          > It depends upon the style of boat you want, and your specific
          needs. In
          > this size range you can have lots of features not available on
          smaller
          > boats.
          >
          > Do you want a sailboat with a small auxiliary engine? Or a power
          boat
          > without sails? Or a motorsailer?
          >
          > It will take years to build it even if you work at it full time,
          unless
          > you have a crew of builders. Even then it will take a ton of
          > proficient pre-planning to get it done quickly, but perhaps you're
          not
          > concerned about how long before you set sail?
          >
          > I would not limit myself to an Atkin designs either. There are
          only
          > four or five of them online. Why not consider boats from other
          > designers in this size range ... from a designer who is still alive
          to
          > support you with answers to your building questions?
          >
          > Phil Bolger seems to garner a lot of interest in boats this size,
          and
          > you can ask him questions and get fast answers if you buy plans
          from
          > him. There is an active discussion group for Bolger boats too:
          >
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/
          >
          > Finally, don't ignore the possibility of having the boat built for
          you.
          > I can build and deliver some boats for no more than the cost of
          > materials in the USA, that's how huge the price difference can be
          > sometimes between materials and labor in different parts of the
          world.
          >
          > Whatever you do, best of luck in this endeavor!
          >
          > Sincerely,
          > Ken Grome
          > Bagacay Boatworks
          > www.bagacayboatworks.com
          >
        • Kenneth Grome
          ... Okay let s take a look and see what they offer. These are the only Atkin sailboat designs online that meet your criteria: 1- GUNDRED - 40 4 Double-Ended
          Message 4 of 9 , Aug 1, 2007
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            > Now, I would like to discuss Atkins design....


            Okay let's take a look and see what they offer. These are the only
            Atkin sailboat designs online that meet your criteria:

            1- GUNDRED - 40' 4" Double-Ended Ketch
            2- LITTLE RANGER - 42' 8 1/2" Double-Ended Ketch
            3- VEGA - 44' Ketch-Rigged Motorsailer
            4- MISSIE AND LAURIE - 45' Double-Ended Sharpie Sloop

            The first two are virtual carbon copies of each other, differing only in
            size and interior layout. The third has a different rig and transom.
            The fourth is a flat bottom double-ended sharpie hull with yet another
            rig.

            Do you have a preference? If so, which one and why? Are any of these
            boats big enough, or do you actually want something bigger? Which
            would you eliminate from consideration and for what reasons?

            Sincerely,
            Ken Grome
            Bagacay Boatworks
            www.bagacayboatworks.com
          • Don Douglas
            Great discussion topic. I agree that Gundred and Little Ranger look similar except in size and layout but a study of the water lines and diagonals will tell
            Message 5 of 9 , Aug 1, 2007
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              Great discussion topic. I agree that Gundred and Little Ranger look similar except in size and layout but a study of the water lines and diagonals will tell you that both will behave differently in the water. My humble opinion is that Gundred would be a smoother boat to cruise on but Little Ranger will definitely be faster. Both from the waterline length and the underbody shape. I am not naval architect, just a reader and studier. If I am wrong, tell me, you will only help my education. Vega has a better layout for a group of 4 people on a cruise and the raised deck would give lots of space to lounge around on. That would give you something to think about when 4 people have been side by side on a 3 week crossing of the Atlantic. Missie and Laurie is just not what floats my boat in design for a cruising boat, but I am biased.

              So Samuel, good luck with the decision making and building!

              Don Douglas


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • snaglefriz
              ... I have built a few small boats for fun. I must warn you, when I was 10 years old my buddies and me built our first boat. Dang, it sank!!! We thought wood
              Message 6 of 9 , Aug 4, 2007
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                --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Samuel" <samang2@...> wrote:
                >
                > I would like to ask what would be the best Atkin design to go on a
                > world cruise with. There will be four of us. I am looking for something
                > around 40-50 feet. It will be built of wood.


                I have built a few small boats for fun. I must warn you, when I was 10
                years old my buddies and me built our first boat. Dang, it sank!!! We
                thought wood floated. Upon seeing our failure this old timer proceeded
                to explain words like Displacement and Stability. With a few
                modifications our boat did float and many of us have since built
                floating boats. But, I am not a Master Boat builder.
                I have seen people in smaller sailboats than what you mention and they
                did admit bigger would been better. I look and see 5 boats in your range.
                Now we need the process of elimination. Fist consider sails. Missie
                and Laurie is a Sloop one mast big sails. I would scratch this one off
                my list. In my opinion a Ketch/Yawl spread out the sail area over 2
                masts and you may find this more manageable. So, now you down to four
                boats. Now Magpie, this a Schooner. This a nice boat, but, may be a
                little hard to handle the a Ketch/Yawl. So, I would scratch this boat
                off my list. Now, I/We have 3 to choose.
                I like the Gaff-Rigs, the sails can be shortened easier for myself and
                they look good. Also, with some thinking the sails can be designed so
                you have a "Topsail" over the Main Sail. It gives it a Marconi look.
                Many refer to the 3 sided or triangular sail as a Marconi Sail getting
                this name for its similarity to the Radio Towers built by Guglielmo
                Marconi. Marconi Sails use more stays for support. OK, lets look at
                our last 3 boats. Well, that was easy, Vega has a Gaff mainsail, this
                could be shorter and a Top Sail made to fit above. True, we can
                probably make the other 2 boats Gaff-Rigs as well with some thought.
                Now, as I said at the first, I no Master Boat builder, never built a
                boat over 20 feet actually. And I not know a lot of sail design as I
                just used sails that came with the bigger boats, which are Marconi
                Sails. My brother has 2, one is a 24' the other 32' both day-sailers.
                So, from my quick look and elimination, for "Myself" I would probably
                go with the Vega. It seems to have a nice layout below with Berths in
                the Stern for people and a forward berth.
                Now here some more thought on my part. Resistance to Capsize. This is
                a complicated math that I know nothing about, but, there is a simple
                formula many have used and I use it to figure my number. What "I" have
                been told, is the number should be less than "2" anything above that
                number will be more vulnerable to capsizing in rough conditions. I
                not sure how big a deal this would be and not a Naval Architect. I
                tried to crunch the numbers and it seem to be 5+ which may be
                something a person want to consider. Here how the math works.
                Divide boat weight by 64 for salt water, 62.2 for fresh water (this
                gives the boat volume in cubic feet). Divide the boat's beam by the
                "Cubed Root" of that sum and you get your number. Now calculators not
                have a cube function, or, mine does not. So, I have to Guess and work
                from that as I am not a Math Whiz. Let's look at Vega for example
                (Hope I understand the math).
                Vega says a Displacement of 40,500 and seems like a nice cruiser.
                40,500 / 64 = 632.81
                Now we find the cube and I start with 8. So, 8 x 8 x 8 = 512.
                9x9x9=729. So, somewhere in between is my number. 8.585 x 8.585 x
                8.585 = 632.73 close enough for me. It say her Breadth is 12 feet,
                sounds like beam to me. ;-) So, 12 / 8.858 = 1.35 and that looks good
                to me, it less than 2. I can see Vega be a good heavy cruiser that
                should hold her own in bad weather. She has a nice looking keel and
                lots of Ballast. I wish we had a picture of her finished in the water,
                to see how she really look.
                Next thing is Ballast. I asked here about Ballast and as of now no
                answer. But, Lead not cheap. Also, I not sure of subing from the
                Plans. Some thoughts I have on getting Ballast Cheap. Search around
                for old wood boats that ready for the Fireplace. They may have your
                lead and come free for the taking with some labor. May have to
                dismantle and burn the wood, but, you may have your lead.
                Well, I hope this help some, I no Guru of boats, but, this how I have
                narrowed my choices for something in the 30 + feet range. Good Luck!
              • snaglefriz
                It me again. I did want to tell you. I bought a book to help with building a larger boat. I guessing it best to read and learn, before spending a lot to build
                Message 7 of 9 , Aug 4, 2007
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                  It me again.
                  I did want to tell you. I bought a book to help with building a larger
                  boat. I guessing it best to read and learn, before spending a lot to
                  build a big boat. I have built houses also and tell people, it easy to
                  make a $5,000 mistake. I assume boats are the same, remember my
                  friends and myself sunk boat? Though it was cheap enough, it required
                  more material after and more un-needed labor, had we done to right the
                  first time.
                  The book I have is;
                  The Gougeon Brothers On Boat Construction

                  I not say it the best and maybe others can give us some other good
                  books to help circumvent the $5,000 mistake. ;-)
                • Lewis E. Gordon
                  If I had to limit my library one book, it would be Bud McIntosh s How To Build A Wooden Boat . Lewis
                  Message 8 of 9 , Aug 4, 2007
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                    If I had to limit my library one book, it would be Bud McIntosh's "How
                    To Build A Wooden Boat".

                    Lewis

                    --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "snaglefriz" <samofsmith@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > It me again.
                    > I did want to tell you. I bought a book to help with building a larger
                    > boat. I guessing it best to read and learn, before spending a lot to
                    > build a big boat. I have built houses also and tell people, it easy to
                    > make a $5,000 mistake. I assume boats are the same, remember my
                    > friends and myself sunk boat? Though it was cheap enough, it required
                    > more material after and more un-needed labor, had we done to right the
                    > first time.
                    > The book I have is;
                    > The Gougeon Brothers On Boat Construction
                    >
                    > I not say it the best and maybe others can give us some other good
                    > books to help circumvent the $5,000 mistake. ;-)
                    >
                  • snaglefriz
                    ... That looks like a good book. I would rather spend a few bucks and read as it can help with choosing a good plan and doing a good work. Helps me focus on a
                    Message 9 of 9 , Aug 4, 2007
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                      --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Lewis E. Gordon"
                      <l_gordon_nica@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > If I had to limit my library one book, it would be Bud McIntosh's "How
                      > To Build A Wooden Boat".
                      >
                      > Lewis

                      That looks like a good book. I would rather spend a few bucks and read
                      as it can help with choosing a good plan and doing a good work. Helps
                      me focus on a "Game Plan" and not forget important little things that
                      be hard to add later. If, I am able to build a big boat I want to do
                      the best work and take my time. I starting to look more at "Nutmeg"
                      but still open to opinions too. Thanks Lewis for the input on anther book.
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