Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Possible engine for Rescue Minor etc?

Expand Messages
  • Ron Butterfield
    I know nothing about these, but it looks like it might work, and the price is right: http://www.carrollstream.net/23.oHP%20WATER-COOLED%20DIESEL%20ENGINE.htm
    Message 1 of 6 , Jul 25, 2007
    • 0 Attachment
      I know nothing about these, but it looks like it might work, and the
      price is right:

      http://www.carrollstream.net/23.oHP%20WATER-COOLED%20DIESEL%20ENGINE.htm

      Cliff notes version:
      20 HP continuous at 2200 RPM
      1200cc single cylinder water cooled diesel
      4 gallons oil tank capacity
      $696 plus shipping
      ~430 lbs weight (from the picture, it looks like this includes the
      radiator and gas tank, but can't be sure)
      If it really does have that big cast iron flywheel, a flat belt could
      run on that like the Listeroids do for their generators.

      If anyone has experience with these engines, or this company, please share ;-)

      --
      Regards,
      RonB
    • John Kohnen
      Interesting engines. Chinese of course. The price is certainly attractive! The 23 hp. engine (a big thumper!) says the cooling is Water-cooled vertical,
      Message 2 of 6 , Jul 25, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        Interesting engines. Chinese of course. The price is certainly attractive!
        The 23 hp. engine (a big thumper!) says the cooling is "Water-cooled
        vertical," whatever that means, but the photo shows a hopper cooled engine
        and all the other liquid cooled engines are hopper cooled. Hopper cooling
        involves an open tank, "hopper," on top of the engine that you fill with
        water. Water circulates through the engine's water jacket by the "thermo
        siphon" effect -- as hot water rises from the engine into the hopper it's
        replaced by realtively cooler water from the hopper. Some heat is radiated
        from the walls of the hopper, but most is lost through steam. You've got
        to watch the level of the water in the hopper and replenish as needed.
        Another outfit selling Chinese and Indian engines explains hopper cooling,
        and offers some suggestions for adapting the engines to other cooling
        methods:

        http://www.utterpower.com/cooling.htm

        I've read of hopper cooled engines being used in Chinese ferry boats, but
        since a boat floats in cooling water, and who wants steam in the engine
        room <g>, I'd want to be able to adapt those Chinese engines for use with
        a keel cooler or heat exchanger, or even raw water cooling if the boat is
        going to be used mostly in fresh water or I feel willing to flush the
        engine after jaunts in salt water (I do that with my outboards anyway).
        The hoppers on the Chinese engines are removable and it probably wouldn't
        be too much hassle to rig up a water pump or two...

        Hopper cooling is ancient technology. Many agricultural and industrial
        engines in the Old Days used it. Here are some examples:

        http://www.oldengineshed.com/forcychm.html

        As with any non-marine engine you'll have to figure out some way to have a
        reverse and neutral. Robb White only used his "Rescue Minor" from the
        launch ramp to a beach on Dog Island, but most of us will occasionally
        have to deal with docking, and that can be pretty exciting without at
        least a neutral! <g>


        On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 10:47:08 -0700, Ron B wrote:

        > I know nothing about these, but it looks like it might work, and the
        > price is right:
        >
        > http://www.carrollstream.net/23.oHP%20WATER-COOLED%20DIESEL%20ENGINE.htm
        >
        > Cliff notes version:
        > 20 HP continuous at 2200 RPM
        > 1200cc single cylinder water cooled diesel
        > 4 gallons oil tank capacity
        > $696 plus shipping
        > ~430 lbs weight (from the picture, it looks like this includes the
        > radiator and gas tank, but can't be sure)
        > If it really does have that big cast iron flywheel, a flat belt could
        > run on that like the Listeroids do for their generators.
        > ...

        --
        John <jkohnen@...>
        Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a
        dog, it's too dark to read. <Groucho Marx>
      • Kenneth Grome
        I do not have any personal experience with these engines, but I can tell you more about them based on my research ... These are the typical low-cost diesel
        Message 3 of 6 , Jul 25, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          I do not have any personal experience with these engines, but I can tell
          you more about them based on my research ...

          These are the typical low-cost diesel engines made in China. There's
          nothing really wrong with them, they are basically very solid engines.
          They have been powering most of the diesel equipment made in China for
          decades.

          As far as using one in a lightweight boat, this is a heavy engine
          compared with many of the more modern and highly engineered engines
          available these days. But it is very inexpensive and it is probably no
          heavier than the engines Atkin specified when he designed the boat
          decades ago.

          If I were building a Rescue Minor and engine weight did not bother me
          (which is shouldn't) I would definitely use one of these engines. They
          do not require a reduction gear for the proper RPM range, and *IF* you
          don't need reverse (Robb White didn't need it on his boat) then almost
          nothing could be simpler than connecting the engine's PTO shaft with
          the propeller shaft via a couple of pulleys and a v-belt. An idler
          pulley for neutral is very easily to use in this configuration, too.

          The engine shown at the link you provided has a light attached. That's
          what the chrome piece is on the top right side of the engine. Here's
          another picture from a different angle of a similar engine installed on
          one of the common walk-behind tractors used in China and many other
          Asian countries:

          http://tns.en.alibaba.com/offerdetail/56756311/Sell_Walking_Tractor/showimg.html

          As you can see in this picture, the light is useful the way it is
          installed. In a boat the light would be pointing to the side if you
          don't take it off and install it somewhere else, so it would probably
          make sense to do so ... or just use it as a handheld light.

          Note that the "4 gallon oil tank" capacity is the fuel tank capacity.
          They often refer to fuel as "oil" in China (diesel oil) so you have to
          be careful when trying to distinguish between lubricating oil and fuel
          oil.

          It is strange that this particular engine does not have a specific fuel
          consumption value listed. The next bigger engine uses 244.8 grams of
          fuel per kilowatt-hour, and the next smaller one uses 258.4 g/kW-h so
          this engine should fall in between these two. The smaller the engine
          the less efficient it is at converting fuel to energy. In most of the
          rest of the world (other than the USA and the UK) fuel consumption is
          commonly measured in g/kW-h so knowing these values gives you a great
          way to compare one engine's fuel consumption with another.

          It is interesting to note that some of the more modern diesel engines
          being developed these days actually have higher fuel consumption
          ratings than these "old-fashioned" diesel engines. I was looking at
          what appeared to be a very new, modern and well-engineered diesel
          engine from China recently, and its specific fuel consumption was more
          than 300 g/kW.h for the same size engine as this one. When I say
          the "same size engine" I am referring to continuous power output, not
          physical size. The newer engine was much lighter though, it was
          actually close to half the weight of this one with its aluminum block
          and all.

          I actually suspect that these old cast iron block engines will outlast
          all of the newer lightweight aluminum block diesel engines. For a boat
          like Rescue Minor engine weight is not an issue, so I think this (and
          others of the same style but in different sizes) would be ideal for RM
          and many other inboard boats designed by the Atkin team.

          Sincerely,
          Ken Grome
          Bagacay Boatworks
          www.bagacayboatworks.com






          > I know nothing about these, but it looks like it might work, and the
          > price is right:
          >
          > http://www.carrollstream.net/23.oHP%20WATER-COOLED%20DIESEL%20ENGINE.
          >htm
          >
          > Cliff notes version:
          > 20 HP continuous at 2200 RPM
          > 1200cc single cylinder water cooled diesel
          > 4 gallons oil tank capacity
          > $696 plus shipping
          > ~430 lbs weight (from the picture, it looks like this includes the
          > radiator and gas tank, but can't be sure)
          > If it really does have that big cast iron flywheel, a flat belt could
          > run on that like the Listeroids do for their generators.
          >
          > If anyone has experience with these engines, or this company, please
          > share ;-)
        • Ron Butterfield
          On 7/25/07, John Kohnen and Ken Grome replied helpfully. ... -- Regards, RonB
          Message 4 of 6 , Jul 26, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            On 7/25/07, John Kohnen and Ken Grome replied helpfully.

            >> Thanks to you guys for your insight. Very helpful.

            --
            Regards,
            RonB
          • Mike Dolph
            These are very similar to the horizontal cylinder Brazilian Yanmar engines I posted picture of in the photos section. The largest of the Brazilian engines is
            Message 5 of 6 , Jul 26, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              These are very similar to the horizontal cylinder Brazilian Yanmar
              engines I posted picture of in the photos section. The largest of
              the Brazilian engines is only approx. 15 HP though. Though it's not
              apparent in the photos the hopper cooling is cooled itself by a
              stream of saltwater collected by a scoop just behind the propeller
              and piped to a serpentine tubing heat exchanger inside the hopper.
              The two tubes of the inlet and outlet of this show in the photos and
              discharge is usually wasted over board or used for wash water. It
              could be piped into a wet exhaust as well but they seldon do that
              there. The 15 HP engine also has another choice of reduction gear
              and electric start.

              Mike Dolph

              The pictures are under the title "engines for these boats".

              --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jkohnen@...> wrote:
              >
              > Interesting engines. Chinese of course. The price is certainly
              attractive!
              > The 23 hp. engine (a big thumper!) says the cooling is "Water-
              cooled
              > vertical," whatever that means, but the photo shows a hopper cooled
              engine
              > and all the other liquid cooled engines are hopper cooled. Hopper
              cooling
              > involves an open tank, "hopper," on top of the engine that you fill
              with
              > water. Water circulates through the engine's water jacket by
              the "thermo
              > siphon" effect -- as hot water rises from the engine into the
              hopper it's
              > replaced by realtively cooler water from the hopper. Some heat is
              radiated
              > from the walls of the hopper, but most is lost through steam.
              You've got
              > to watch the level of the water in the hopper and replenish as
              needed.
              > Another outfit selling Chinese and Indian engines explains hopper
              cooling,
              > and offers some suggestions for adapting the engines to other
              cooling
              > methods:
              >
              > http://www.utterpower.com/cooling.htm
              >
              > I've read of hopper cooled engines being used in Chinese ferry
              boats, but
              > since a boat floats in cooling water, and who wants steam in the
              engine
              > room <g>, I'd want to be able to adapt those Chinese engines for
              use with
              > a keel cooler or heat exchanger, or even raw water cooling if the
              boat is
              > going to be used mostly in fresh water or I feel willing to flush
              the
              > engine after jaunts in salt water (I do that with my outboards
              anyway).
              > The hoppers on the Chinese engines are removable and it probably
              wouldn't
              > be too much hassle to rig up a water pump or two...
              >
              > Hopper cooling is ancient technology. Many agricultural and
              industrial
              > engines in the Old Days used it. Here are some examples:
              >
              > http://www.oldengineshed.com/forcychm.html
              >
              > As with any non-marine engine you'll have to figure out some way to
              have a
              > reverse and neutral. Robb White only used his "Rescue Minor" from
              the
              > launch ramp to a beach on Dog Island, but most of us will
              occasionally
              > have to deal with docking, and that can be pretty exciting without
              at
              > least a neutral! <g>
              >
              >
              > On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 10:47:08 -0700, Ron B wrote:
              >
              > > I know nothing about these, but it looks like it might work, and
              the
              > > price is right:
              > >
              > > http://www.carrollstream.net/23.oHP%20WATER-COOLED%20DIESEL%
              20ENGINE.htm
              > >
              > > Cliff notes version:
              > > 20 HP continuous at 2200 RPM
              > > 1200cc single cylinder water cooled diesel
              > > 4 gallons oil tank capacity
              > > $696 plus shipping
              > > ~430 lbs weight (from the picture, it looks like this includes the
              > > radiator and gas tank, but can't be sure)
              > > If it really does have that big cast iron flywheel, a flat belt
              could
              > > run on that like the Listeroids do for their generators.
              > > ...
              >
              > --
              > John <jkohnen@...>
              > Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a
              > dog, it's too dark to read. <Groucho Marx>
              >
            • John Kohnen
              That s an interesting idea for adapting hopper cooling to a boat. I hadn t thought of that... One of the old-time hopper cooled engines on the page I linked to
              Message 6 of 6 , Jul 27, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                That's an interesting idea for adapting hopper cooling to a boat. I hadn't
                thought of that... One of the old-time hopper cooled engines on the page I
                linked to has a cover for the hopper so you can circulate water through it.

                http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AtkinBoats/photos/browse/6755

                http://www.oldengineshed.com/forcychm.html

                I think those Chinese diesels may have possibilities...

                On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 11:44:38 -0700, Mike D wrote:

                > These are very similar to the horizontal cylinder Brazilian Yanmar
                > engines I posted picture of in the photos section. The largest of
                > the Brazilian engines is only approx. 15 HP though. Though it's not
                > apparent in the photos the hopper cooling is cooled itself by a
                > stream of saltwater collected by a scoop just behind the propeller
                > and piped to a serpentine tubing heat exchanger inside the hopper.
                > ...

                --
                John <jkohnen@...>
                After all, all he did was string together a lot of old, well-
                known quotations. <H. L. Mencken on Shakespeare>
              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.