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Re: Rescue Minor "Bingey" launched

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  • sals_dad
    Photos in album (page 2 of photos section). Performance: with 6 hp outboard, about 6 kts. 25 hp, kind of interesting - above 12 kts, bow dives and handling
    Message 1 of 13 , Jul 9, 2007
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      Photos in album (page 2 of photos section).

      Performance: with 6 hp outboard, about 6 kts.
      25 hp, kind of interesting - above 12 kts, bow dives and handling
      becomes wild. Don't dare to get anywhere near full throttle.
      Steering is very sensitive, trim has a major impact. Offsetting
      the prop a bit seems to help, but works best to turn it one way at
      low speed, the other at high (I forget which is which).

      The discussions about "suction" - not a problem. Water gushes up
      through the loose hole for the lower unit; at 12 knots it has risen
      to the transom and surges out the deck scuppers. I suppose I could
      calculate out how much pressure that is (about 16"?), and how much
      lift would be generated without the hole.

      Lots of prop ventilation from even relatively small waves, but I
      haven't tried it with a wide variety of load and trim combinations.

      One possible cause of "porpoising" might be a bit of hogging, as a
      result of weld distortions in the hull. I ground out some of that
      curve, but still need to work on it some more.

      Anybody care to help out with sea trials? Bath, Maine area.

      I am away from the computer most of the summer, but can be reached
      at 2O7 - 65O - 3235.

      Curtis, aka Sal's Dad
    • Lewis E. Gordon
      Curtis, Congratulations on the launch, and I like the choice of name. Photo #3 shows a lot of water that you are dragging around in that cavity. How can you
      Message 2 of 13 , Jul 9, 2007
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        Curtis,

        Congratulations on the launch, and I like the choice of name. Photo #3
        shows a lot of water that you are dragging around in that cavity. How
        can you ever get it trimmed with such a large, changeable, weight in
        the stern? Is there any way to seal around the temporary lower unit?
        Any hogging is not evident in the low resolution photos. How severe is it?

        Great job in a timely manner!

        Lewis

        --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "sals_dad" <sals_dad@...> wrote:
        >
        > Photos in album (page 2 of photos section).
        >
        > Performance: with 6 hp outboard, about 6 kts.
        > 25 hp, kind of interesting - above 12 kts, bow dives and handling
        > becomes wild. Don't dare to get anywhere near full throttle.
        > Steering is very sensitive, trim has a major impact. Offsetting
        > the prop a bit seems to help, but works best to turn it one way at
        > low speed, the other at high (I forget which is which).
        >
        > The discussions about "suction" - not a problem. Water gushes up
        > through the loose hole for the lower unit; at 12 knots it has risen
        > to the transom and surges out the deck scuppers. I suppose I could
        > calculate out how much pressure that is (about 16"?), and how much
        > lift would be generated without the hole.
        >
        > Lots of prop ventilation from even relatively small waves, but I
        > haven't tried it with a wide variety of load and trim combinations.
        >
        > One possible cause of "porpoising" might be a bit of hogging, as a
        > result of weld distortions in the hull. I ground out some of that
        > curve, but still need to work on it some more.
        >
        > Anybody care to help out with sea trials? Bath, Maine area.
        >
        > I am away from the computer most of the summer, but can be reached
        > at 2O7 - 65O - 3235.
        >
        > Curtis, aka Sal's Dad
        >
      • mrweswhite
        Curtis, I like your boat, and I think that it will be a success. You aren t really carrying the weight of that water in the well in the sense of it pushing
        Message 3 of 13 , Jul 10, 2007
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          Curtis,

          I like your boat, and I think that it will be a success. You aren't
          really carrying the weight of that water in the well in the sense of
          it pushing the hull down, but scooping it up has to be creating alot
          of drag. My father had a theory that all of the pressure trapped in
          that stern shape contributed to the outstanding stability his boat
          has underway. In yours right now, that pressure is wasted pushing
          water up into the well, instead of pushing the stern of the boat
          up. I think that this might be contributing to the porpoising and
          wild steering. If you could seal that lower unit, even temporarily
          with expanding foam or something, I think it might be better
          behaved. Good luck. Your boat's namesake would be tickled. Wes
          White

          --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "sals_dad" <sals_dad@...> wrote:
          >
          > The Rescue Minor is getting close. Hull is complete (if ugly) and
          > last night I shoved it off the "landscaper" trailer and crunched
          it
          > over sharp gravel into the water. I just love the metal hull, and
          > workboat finish.
          >
          > I don't have power in yet, and plan to start out trials with a 6
          hp
          > outboard, before putting on the 25. I think I explained in an
          > earlier post, and illustrated in the photos section, how the
          > temporary outboard installation will work. With all the unknowns
          > about power requirement, reduction gears, reverse, props, and
          angled
          > alignment, it seems best to try out a number of alternatives
          before
          > making a commitment.
          >
          > For the time being, steering will be with a push-pull tiller.
          Since
          > the center of the "lazarette" is free-flooding, I dispensed with
          any
          > rudder shaft seal or bearings; for now it's just an aluminum shaft
          > through an hole drilled in the aluminum bottom, with a lower
          section
          > of shaft resting on a plastic disc set into a hole drilled partway
          > into the skeg. So I expect some wear, but we'll see.
          >
          > Pushing it alongside the Bolger Diablo, it moved right along, even
          > showing a hint of rooster tail. The hull weighs about 550 lbs
          > empty, and was very tender stepping in at the dock.
          >
          > Next step, trials with low power, and photos. Anybody in the
          > midcoast Maine area want to play this weekend?
          >
          >
          > Curtis -- aka Sal's Dad
          >
        • sals_dad
          Thanks for the kind words, Wes. I sealed (95%) the openings, and cut a big (4 ) scupper in the transom, and found that the porpoising started at only 9 knots
          Message 4 of 13 , Jul 23, 2007
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            Thanks for the kind words, Wes.

            I sealed (95%) the openings, and cut a big (4") scupper in the
            transom, and found that the porpoising started at only 9 knots or
            so. Now it's loaded with ballast, 9 bundles of shingles (600 lbs
            maybe?) and it is doing a lot better. The 25 is definitely WAY too
            much power, I am trying to drum up a 15 or so to try.

            Thne next (big) step wil be to fair out the distortions in the
            bottom. I suspect the hogging is pushing the bow down a lot.

            I'll keep you all informed.

            Curtis


            > I like your boat, and I think that it will be a success. You aren't
            > really carrying the weight of that water in the well in the sense of
            > it pushing the hull down, but scooping it up has to be creating alot
            > of drag. My father had a theory that all of the pressure trapped in
            > that stern shape contributed to the outstanding stability his boat
            > has underway. In yours right now, that pressure is wasted pushing
            > water up into the well, instead of pushing the stern of the boat
            > up. I think that this might be contributing to the porpoising and
            > wild steering. If you could seal that lower unit, even temporarily
            > with expanding foam or something, I think it might be better
            > behaved. Good luck. Your boat's namesake would be tickled. Wes
            > White
          • Kenneth Grome
            Are any of these designs Seabright skiffs??? Beachcomber 23 -- Atkin & Co. No. 823 Sea Rover 30 -- Atkin & Co., No. 829 Sea Runner 27 -- Atkin & Co. No. 844 If
            Message 5 of 13 , Aug 25, 2007
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              Are any of these designs Seabright skiffs???

              Beachcomber 23 -- Atkin & Co. No. 823
              Sea Rover 30 -- Atkin & Co., No. 829
              Sea Runner 27 -- Atkin & Co. No. 844

              If anyone is interested in plans for these boats, they may be available
              once again, not from Atkin & Co. but from Dynamite Payson. Note that I
              could be wrong about some of the following information but this is my
              best understanding so far:

              A guy named Capt. Jim Orrell owned a company called Texas Dories a long
              time ago. Either Capt. Jim or his company commissioned Phil Bolger,
              William Atkin and perhaps others to design some boats for him. These
              commissions were exclusive -- the designs were not simply licensed to
              Capt. Jim and/or his company, instead he actually purchased all the
              rights to these designs, which include the right to sell plans.

              It seems Texas Dories went out of business and sometime thereafter
              Dynamite Payson bought these designs from Capt. Jim including all the
              rights that go with them. Or maybe Dynamite bought the Texas Dories
              company from Capt. Jim. Either way this gave Dynamite Payson the right
              to sell licensed copies of these plans, but I don't think he has been
              trying very hard to market these plans for a while.

              Recently Phil Bolger said he would like his old plans from this group to
              get more public exposure, so Dynamite sent a request to one of his
              friends/helpers to post some info online, and that's when these profile
              drawings appeared on this page of the instantboats forum:

              http://instantboats.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1872

              When I saw that some of them look very much like Atkin designs I was
              curious how anyone other than Atkin & Co. could sell them legally, and
              that's how I came to understand everything I wrote above.

              Someone suggested that these Atkin designs might be Seabright skiffs,
              and I am very interested in these boats. If you know anything about
              these three new Atkin designs, please send it to me privately or post
              your information here so we can all share it.

              Thanks in advance!

              Sincerely,
              Ken Grome
              Bagacay Boatworks
              www.bagacayboatworks.com
            • jose geronimo
              Hi Ken, Thanks so much for this info, would like to acquire a plan for Skiff 19 like a surfer. Would appreciate much if you could send me at this address: 91
              Message 6 of 13 , Sep 12, 2007
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                Hi Ken,
                Thanks so much for this info, would like to acquire a
                plan for Skiff 19' like a surfer.
                Would appreciate much if you could send me at this
                address: 91 wood duck ct, Freehold NJ, 07728

                Regards,
                Joe

                --- Kenneth Grome <bagacayboatworks@...> wrote:

                > Are any of these designs Seabright skiffs???
                >
                > Beachcomber 23 -- Atkin & Co. No. 823
                > Sea Rover 30 -- Atkin & Co., No. 829
                > Sea Runner 27 -- Atkin & Co. No. 844
                >
                > If anyone is interested in plans for these boats,
                > they may be available
                > once again, not from Atkin & Co. but from Dynamite
                > Payson. Note that I
                > could be wrong about some of the following
                > information but this is my
                > best understanding so far:
                >
                > A guy named Capt. Jim Orrell owned a company called
                > Texas Dories a long
                > time ago. Either Capt. Jim or his company
                > commissioned Phil Bolger,
                > William Atkin and perhaps others to design some
                > boats for him. These
                > commissions were exclusive -- the designs were not
                > simply licensed to
                > Capt. Jim and/or his company, instead he actually
                > purchased all the
                > rights to these designs, which include the right to
                > sell plans.
                >
                > It seems Texas Dories went out of business and
                > sometime thereafter
                > Dynamite Payson bought these designs from Capt. Jim
                > including all the
                > rights that go with them. Or maybe Dynamite bought
                > the Texas Dories
                > company from Capt. Jim. Either way this gave
                > Dynamite Payson the right
                > to sell licensed copies of these plans, but I don't
                > think he has been
                > trying very hard to market these plans for a while.
                >
                > Recently Phil Bolger said he would like his old
                > plans from this group to
                > get more public exposure, so Dynamite sent a request
                > to one of his
                > friends/helpers to post some info online, and that's
                > when these profile
                > drawings appeared on this page of the instantboats
                > forum:
                >
                > http://instantboats.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1872
                >
                > When I saw that some of them look very much like
                > Atkin designs I was
                > curious how anyone other than Atkin & Co. could sell
                > them legally, and
                > that's how I came to understand everything I wrote
                > above.
                >
                > Someone suggested that these Atkin designs might be
                > Seabright skiffs,
                > and I am very interested in these boats. If you
                > know anything about
                > these three new Atkin designs, please send it to me
                > privately or post
                > your information here so we can all share it.
                >
                > Thanks in advance!
                >
                > Sincerely,
                > Ken Grome
                > Bagacay Boatworks
                > www.bagacayboatworks.com
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >




                ____________________________________________________________________________________
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              • Kenneth Grome
                Hello Joe, Please contact H.H. Payson for the plans. I m just a boat designer / builder and none of these are my designs. Sincerely, Ken Grome Bagacay
                Message 7 of 13 , Sep 12, 2007
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                  Hello Joe,

                  Please contact H.H. Payson for the plans. I'm just a boat designer /
                  builder and none of these are my designs.

                  Sincerely,
                  Ken Grome
                  Bagacay Boatworks
                  www.bagacayboatworks.com






                  > Ken,
                  > Thanks so much for this info, would like to acquire a
                  > plan for Skiff 19' like a surfer.
                  > Would appreciate much if you could send me at this
                  > address: 91 wood duck ct, Freehold NJ, 07728
                  >
                  > Regards,
                  > Joe
                  >
                  > --- Kenneth Grome <bagacayboatworks@...> wrote:
                  > > Are any of these designs Seabright skiffs???
                  > >
                  > > Beachcomber 23 -- Atkin & Co. No. 823
                  > > Sea Rover 30 -- Atkin & Co., No. 829
                  > > Sea Runner 27 -- Atkin & Co. No. 844
                  > >
                  > > If anyone is interested in plans for these boats,
                  > > they may be available
                  > > once again, not from Atkin & Co. but from Dynamite
                  > > Payson. Note that I
                  > > could be wrong about some of the following
                  > > information but this is my
                  > > best understanding so far:
                  > >
                  > > A guy named Capt. Jim Orrell owned a company called
                  > > Texas Dories a long
                  > > time ago. Either Capt. Jim or his company
                  > > commissioned Phil Bolger,
                  > > William Atkin and perhaps others to design some
                  > > boats for him. These
                  > > commissions were exclusive -- the designs were not
                  > > simply licensed to
                  > > Capt. Jim and/or his company, instead he actually
                  > > purchased all the
                  > > rights to these designs, which include the right to
                  > > sell plans.
                  > >
                  > > It seems Texas Dories went out of business and
                  > > sometime thereafter
                  > > Dynamite Payson bought these designs from Capt. Jim
                  > > including all the
                  > > rights that go with them. Or maybe Dynamite bought
                  > > the Texas Dories
                  > > company from Capt. Jim. Either way this gave
                  > > Dynamite Payson the right
                  > > to sell licensed copies of these plans, but I don't
                  > > think he has been
                  > > trying very hard to market these plans for a while.
                  > >
                  > > Recently Phil Bolger said he would like his old
                  > > plans from this group to
                  > > get more public exposure, so Dynamite sent a request
                  > > to one of his
                  > > friends/helpers to post some info online, and that's
                  > > when these profile
                  > > drawings appeared on this page of the instantboats
                  > > forum:
                  > >
                  > > http://instantboats.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1872
                  > >
                  > > When I saw that some of them look very much like
                  > > Atkin designs I was
                  > > curious how anyone other than Atkin & Co. could sell
                  > > them legally, and
                  > > that's how I came to understand everything I wrote
                  > > above.
                  > >
                  > > Someone suggested that these Atkin designs might be
                  > > Seabright skiffs,
                  > > and I am very interested in these boats. If you
                  > > know anything about
                  > > these three new Atkin designs, please send it to me
                  > > privately or post
                  > > your information here so we can all share it.
                  > >
                  > > Thanks in advance!
                  > >
                  > > Sincerely,
                  > > Ken Grome
                  > > Bagacay Boatworks
                  > > www.bagacayboatworks.com
                  >
                  > _____________________________________________________________________
                  >_______________ Need a vacation? Get great deals
                  > to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
                  > http://travel.yahoo.com/
                • jose geronimo
                  Thanks. ... ____________________________________________________________________________________ Tonight s top picks. What will you watch tonight? Preview the
                  Message 8 of 13 , Sep 13, 2007
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                    Thanks.

                    --- Kenneth Grome <bagacayboatworks@...> wrote:

                    > Hello Joe,
                    >
                    > Please contact H.H. Payson for the plans. I'm just
                    > a boat designer /
                    > builder and none of these are my designs.
                    >
                    > Sincerely,
                    > Ken Grome
                    > Bagacay Boatworks
                    > www.bagacayboatworks.com
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > > Ken,
                    > > Thanks so much for this info, would like to
                    > acquire a
                    > > plan for Skiff 19' like a surfer.
                    > > Would appreciate much if you could send me at this
                    > > address: 91 wood duck ct, Freehold NJ, 07728
                    > >
                    > > Regards,
                    > > Joe
                    > >
                    > > --- Kenneth Grome <bagacayboatworks@...>
                    > wrote:
                    > > > Are any of these designs Seabright skiffs???
                    > > >
                    > > > Beachcomber 23 -- Atkin & Co. No. 823
                    > > > Sea Rover 30 -- Atkin & Co., No. 829
                    > > > Sea Runner 27 -- Atkin & Co. No. 844
                    > > >
                    > > > If anyone is interested in plans for these
                    > boats,
                    > > > they may be available
                    > > > once again, not from Atkin & Co. but from
                    > Dynamite
                    > > > Payson. Note that I
                    > > > could be wrong about some of the following
                    > > > information but this is my
                    > > > best understanding so far:
                    > > >
                    > > > A guy named Capt. Jim Orrell owned a company
                    > called
                    > > > Texas Dories a long
                    > > > time ago. Either Capt. Jim or his company
                    > > > commissioned Phil Bolger,
                    > > > William Atkin and perhaps others to design some
                    > > > boats for him. These
                    > > > commissions were exclusive -- the designs were
                    > not
                    > > > simply licensed to
                    > > > Capt. Jim and/or his company, instead he
                    > actually
                    > > > purchased all the
                    > > > rights to these designs, which include the right
                    > to
                    > > > sell plans.
                    > > >
                    > > > It seems Texas Dories went out of business and
                    > > > sometime thereafter
                    > > > Dynamite Payson bought these designs from Capt.
                    > Jim
                    > > > including all the
                    > > > rights that go with them. Or maybe Dynamite
                    > bought
                    > > > the Texas Dories
                    > > > company from Capt. Jim. Either way this gave
                    > > > Dynamite Payson the right
                    > > > to sell licensed copies of these plans, but I
                    > don't
                    > > > think he has been
                    > > > trying very hard to market these plans for a
                    > while.
                    > > >
                    > > > Recently Phil Bolger said he would like his old
                    > > > plans from this group to
                    > > > get more public exposure, so Dynamite sent a
                    > request
                    > > > to one of his
                    > > > friends/helpers to post some info online, and
                    > that's
                    > > > when these profile
                    > > > drawings appeared on this page of the
                    > instantboats
                    > > > forum:
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > http://instantboats.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1872
                    > > >
                    > > > When I saw that some of them look very much like
                    > > > Atkin designs I was
                    > > > curious how anyone other than Atkin & Co. could
                    > sell
                    > > > them legally, and
                    > > > that's how I came to understand everything I
                    > wrote
                    > > > above.
                    > > >
                    > > > Someone suggested that these Atkin designs might
                    > be
                    > > > Seabright skiffs,
                    > > > and I am very interested in these boats. If you
                    > > > know anything about
                    > > > these three new Atkin designs, please send it to
                    > me
                    > > > privately or post
                    > > > your information here so we can all share it.
                    > > >
                    > > > Thanks in advance!
                    > > >
                    > > > Sincerely,
                    > > > Ken Grome
                    > > > Bagacay Boatworks
                    > > > www.bagacayboatworks.com
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    _____________________________________________________________________
                    > >_______________ Need a vacation? Get great deals
                    > > to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
                    > > http://travel.yahoo.com/
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >



                    ____________________________________________________________________________________
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                  • wmeparker@cinci.rr.com
                    Hello All, A couple of weeks ago Charlene and I (Charlene is my Atkin Florence Oakland schooner) took advantage of a Reverse Regatta format our club was
                    Message 9 of 13 , Sep 13, 2007
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                      Hello All,
                      A couple of weeks ago Charlene and I (Charlene is my Atkin "Florence Oakland" schooner) took advantage of a "Reverse Regatta" format our club was trying to go racing. The format starts the lowest rated boats first and goes up through the ratings to the highest. I figured that without the usual need for start line maneuvering we might have a shot at beating our rating, at least. My friend Rich Gibson crewed for me. Charlene has always done well down wind, but, as you have heard here before, her upwind sailing is "stately". When I heard the first race was to be 4 miles, 2 upwind legs and 2 downwind, I knew we would be hard pressed to finish well. We had the shortest waterline in the fleet that day.
                      Our stopwatch was my cellphone. You can't read those buggers in bright sunlight. We were unable to take advantage of our start handicap, and ended up starting with the next boat. The weather was perfect sailing, blowing 10-15, glorious day. We had a good time, and did manage to beat a couple of boats to the first weather mark. That was the way it ended, with Charlene 14 out of 16.
                      The second race was two miles, 1 upwind leg, we started on time,and we did better, with Charlene 13 out of 16. Next year we are hoping for a northwest wind, so that the course will almost have to be close reach out, broad reach in.
                      We had a blast, took a lot of good natured ribbing, although everyone said that if it was a beauty contest, we would win hands down. Many good pictures taken of Charlene, which I will, someday, post on the website.
                      Best to all,
                      Bill Parker, Schooner Charlene


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