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Re: [AtkinBoats] Re: Present "box keel" designers?

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  • Kenneth Grome
    I think Dave Gerr got it right. Seabrights were never designed to go that fast. Atkin warned about trying to drive them faster than their design speeds, and
    Message 1 of 10 , Apr 1, 2007
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      I think Dave Gerr got it right.

      Seabrights were never designed to go that fast. Atkin warned about trying to
      drive them faster than their design speeds, and he had good reason to do so.

      I have read that once they exceed the design speed envelope their hulls do not
      trap the wake like they do at their design speeds, and this adversely affects
      handling.

      In other words, running them faster makes them dangerous.

      Sincerely,
      Ken Grome
      Bagacay Boatworks
      www.bagacayboatworks.com






      > I'm familiar with the Gerr designs but think he failed to use the
      > speed potential the Atkin boats had with low powered engines.
      >
      > With the flyweight diesel engines today a cruise of 18K to 24K should
      > seem reasonable if 3nmpg were acceptable at 24K.
    • Jay K. Jeffries
      I grew up in South Jersey and there were (may still be) high-powered (aka 427 Hemi with open, straight exhausts) modified Sea Bright skiff races on the
      Message 2 of 10 , Apr 1, 2007
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        I grew up in South Jersey and there were (may still be) high-powered (aka 427 Hemi with open, straight exhausts) modified Sea Bright skiff races on the Intercoastal when it was glass smooth. They were ungodly fast, crew sat at the transom wearing high collared racing life jackets, and you could hear them miles away. Any boat you run fast has adverse handling characteristics, it is a matter of the operator being able to anticipate necessary corrections, and being able to apply them fast enough.

        R/Jay





        Respectfully,

        Jay K. Jeffries

        Andros Is., Bahamas



        A skimmer afloat is but a submarine, so poorly built it will not plunge.



        -----Original Message-----
        From: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kenneth Grome
        Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 7:02 AM
        To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [AtkinBoats] Re: Present "box keel" designers?



        I think Dave Gerr got it right.



        Seabrights were never designed to go that fast. Atkin warned about trying to

        drive them faster than their design speeds, and he had good reason to do so.



        I have read that once they exceed the design speed envelope their hulls do not

        trap the wake like they do at their design speeds, and this adversely affects

        handling.



        In other words, running them faster makes them dangerous.



        Sincerely,

        Ken Grome

        Bagacay Boatworks

        www.bagacayboatworks.com













        > I'm familiar with the Gerr designs but think he failed to use the

        > speed potential the Atkin boats had with low powered engines.

        >

        > With the flyweight diesel engines today a cruise of 18K to 24K should

        > seem reasonable if 3nmpg were acceptable at 24K.











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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Sam Glasscock
        Phil Bolger has a number of box keel designs, as does Chespeake Marine Designs. I don t think any of them uses a reverse deadrise tunnel like Rescue Minor et
        Message 3 of 10 , Apr 1, 2007
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          Phil Bolger has a number of box keel designs, as does
          Chespeake Marine Designs. I don't think any of them
          uses a reverse deadrise tunnel like Rescue Minor et
          al, though.
          --- sensationalknittedsocks
          <sensationalknittedsocks@...> wrote:

          > Hi Gang,
          >
          > I am wondering if anyone is continuing the work of
          > ATKIN in creating
          > new boats of the Sea Bright configuration?
          >
          > Any tank tests , or rules of thumb to the SB design?
          >
          > I have plans for River Belle , and her bottom is
          > quite close to my
          > requirements , just needs to be stretched to 38.7
          > and narrowed to 7.6
          > beam.
          >
          > Will do it myself if there are no pros up to
          > speed,but need to check.
          >
          > FRED
          >
          >
          >
          >




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        • sensationalknittedsocks
          I think Dave Gerr got it right. Seabrights were never designed to go that fast. Atkin warned about trying to drive them faster than their design speeds, and
          Message 4 of 10 , Apr 2, 2007
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            "I think Dave Gerr got it right.

            Seabrights were never designed to go that fast. Atkin warned about
            trying to drive them faster than their design speeds, and he had good
            reason to do so.

            Gerr in TNOB claims there still fine at SL 4

            For a 36ft lwl that would be 24K ,,fine for me as it should be doable
            in such a skinney hull at 8gph.

            "I have read that once they exceed the design speed envelope their
            hulls do not trap the wake like they do at their design speeds, and
            this adversely affects handling.

            In other words, running them faster makes them dangerous."


            The only MoTorBoat article I have that talks about a boat run with a
            2X sized re engine found the stern continued to lift , and submerged
            too much stem , causing bow steering.
            Atkins solution was simple strakes that lifted the bow , to maintain
            the same attitude at the higher speeds.

            Chine strakes cost HP to work, we are considering a trim tab set ,
            that would work backwards from normal.

            At low and medium speeds the tabs would allow the standard Atkin style
            stern lift from the aft section.

            At higher speed the stern could be lowered by opening (closing the
            tabs) the aft outlet and not immersing the bow to excess.

            At very high plaining speeds ,I'm sure the std V bottom with big dead
            rise would work fine , but 24K is not a very high speed as SL4 is
            still in the Semiplaining regime.


            FF
          • thomasp118
            Dave Gerr http://www.gerrmarine.com Some of Dave s designs which reflect the Atkin tunnel hulled, seabright skiff model:
            Message 5 of 10 , Apr 11, 2007
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              Dave Gerr

              http://www.gerrmarine.com

              Some of Dave's designs which reflect the Atkin tunnel hulled,
              seabright skiff model:

              http://gerrmarine.com/images/boat_images/power/gerr42tunnel/gerr42tunn
              elD.GIF

              (note the propellor in relation to the waterline)
              http://gerrmarine.com/images/boat_images/power/gerr76/gerr76c.GIF

              http://gerrmarine.com/images/boat_images/power/gerr47tunnel/gerr47tunn
              elC.JPG

              Best of luck!
              ~Thomas Paulay



              --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, Sam Glasscock
              <glasscocklanding@...> wrote:
              >
              > Phil Bolger has a number of box keel designs, as does
              > Chespeake Marine Designs. I don't think any of them
              > uses a reverse deadrise tunnel like Rescue Minor et
              > al, though.
              > --- sensationalknittedsocks
              > <sensationalknittedsocks@...> wrote:
              >
              > > Hi Gang,
              > >
              > > I am wondering if anyone is continuing the work of
              > > ATKIN in creating
              > > new boats of the Sea Bright configuration?
              > >
              > > Any tank tests , or rules of thumb to the SB design?
              > >
              > > I have plans for River Belle , and her bottom is
              > > quite close to my
              > > requirements , just needs to be stretched to 38.7
              > > and narrowed to 7.6
              > > beam.
              > >
              > > Will do it myself if there are no pros up to
              > > speed,but need to check.
              > >
              > > FRED
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              ______________________________________________________________________
              ______________
              > Be a PS3 game guru.
              > Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at
              Yahoo! Games.
              > http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121
              >
            • David
              Also, check out the Mundoo series of boats (esp. M III) from Duck Flats, down in Australia. Cheers, David Graybeal Portland, OR Luck is the residue of design
              Message 6 of 10 , Apr 11, 2007
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                Also, check out the Mundoo series of boats (esp. M III) from Duck
                Flats, down in Australia.

                Cheers,
                David Graybeal
                Portland, OR

                "Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey

                *********************

                --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, Sam Glasscock
                <glasscocklanding@...> wrote:
                >
                > Phil Bolger has a number of box keel designs, as does
                > Chespeake Marine Designs. I don't think any of them
                > uses a reverse deadrise tunnel like Rescue Minor et
                > al, though.
                > --- sensationalknittedsocks
                > <sensationalknittedsocks@...> wrote:
                >
                > > Hi Gang,
                > >
                > > I am wondering if anyone is continuing the work of
                > > ATKIN in creating
                > > new boats of the Sea Bright configuration?
                > >
                > > Any tank tests , or rules of thumb to the SB design?
                > >
                > > I have plans for River Belle , and her bottom is
                > > quite close to my
                > > requirements , just needs to be stretched to 38.7
                > > and narrowed to 7.6
                > > beam.
                > >
                > > Will do it myself if there are no pros up to
                > > speed,but need to check.
                > >
                > > FRED
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