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Re: Present "box keel" designers?

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  • sensationalknittedsocks
    I m familiar with the Gerr designs but think he failed to use the speed potential the Atkin boats had with low powered engines. With the flyweight diesel
    Message 1 of 10 , Apr 1, 2007
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      I'm familiar with the Gerr designs but think he failed to use the
      speed potential the Atkin boats had with low powered engines.

      With the flyweight diesel engines today a cruise of 18K to 24K should
      seem reasonable if 3nmpg were acceptable at 24K.

      At reduced speeds the range could be extended .

      Fred
    • Kenneth Grome
      ... Renn Tolman designed the Tolman Seabright Skiff and I m building the first one after the prototype. It s a brand new boat so plans will be available
      Message 2 of 10 , Apr 1, 2007
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        On Sunday 01 April 2007 02:48:02 am sensationalknittedsocks wrote:
        > I am wondering if anyone is continuing the work of ATKIN in creating
        > new boats of the Sea Bright configuration?


        Renn Tolman designed the Tolman Seabright Skiff and I'm building the first one
        after the prototype. It's a brand new boat so plans will be available
        eventually, but not until I have finished debugging them for Renn.

        Sincerely,
        Ken Grome
        Bagacay Boatworks
        www.bagacayboatworks.com
      • Kenneth Grome
        I think Dave Gerr got it right. Seabrights were never designed to go that fast. Atkin warned about trying to drive them faster than their design speeds, and
        Message 3 of 10 , Apr 1, 2007
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          I think Dave Gerr got it right.

          Seabrights were never designed to go that fast. Atkin warned about trying to
          drive them faster than their design speeds, and he had good reason to do so.

          I have read that once they exceed the design speed envelope their hulls do not
          trap the wake like they do at their design speeds, and this adversely affects
          handling.

          In other words, running them faster makes them dangerous.

          Sincerely,
          Ken Grome
          Bagacay Boatworks
          www.bagacayboatworks.com






          > I'm familiar with the Gerr designs but think he failed to use the
          > speed potential the Atkin boats had with low powered engines.
          >
          > With the flyweight diesel engines today a cruise of 18K to 24K should
          > seem reasonable if 3nmpg were acceptable at 24K.
        • Jay K. Jeffries
          I grew up in South Jersey and there were (may still be) high-powered (aka 427 Hemi with open, straight exhausts) modified Sea Bright skiff races on the
          Message 4 of 10 , Apr 1, 2007
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            I grew up in South Jersey and there were (may still be) high-powered (aka 427 Hemi with open, straight exhausts) modified Sea Bright skiff races on the Intercoastal when it was glass smooth. They were ungodly fast, crew sat at the transom wearing high collared racing life jackets, and you could hear them miles away. Any boat you run fast has adverse handling characteristics, it is a matter of the operator being able to anticipate necessary corrections, and being able to apply them fast enough.

            R/Jay





            Respectfully,

            Jay K. Jeffries

            Andros Is., Bahamas



            A skimmer afloat is but a submarine, so poorly built it will not plunge.



            -----Original Message-----
            From: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kenneth Grome
            Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 7:02 AM
            To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [AtkinBoats] Re: Present "box keel" designers?



            I think Dave Gerr got it right.



            Seabrights were never designed to go that fast. Atkin warned about trying to

            drive them faster than their design speeds, and he had good reason to do so.



            I have read that once they exceed the design speed envelope their hulls do not

            trap the wake like they do at their design speeds, and this adversely affects

            handling.



            In other words, running them faster makes them dangerous.



            Sincerely,

            Ken Grome

            Bagacay Boatworks

            www.bagacayboatworks.com













            > I'm familiar with the Gerr designs but think he failed to use the

            > speed potential the Atkin boats had with low powered engines.

            >

            > With the flyweight diesel engines today a cruise of 18K to 24K should

            > seem reasonable if 3nmpg were acceptable at 24K.











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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Sam Glasscock
            Phil Bolger has a number of box keel designs, as does Chespeake Marine Designs. I don t think any of them uses a reverse deadrise tunnel like Rescue Minor et
            Message 5 of 10 , Apr 1, 2007
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              Phil Bolger has a number of box keel designs, as does
              Chespeake Marine Designs. I don't think any of them
              uses a reverse deadrise tunnel like Rescue Minor et
              al, though.
              --- sensationalknittedsocks
              <sensationalknittedsocks@...> wrote:

              > Hi Gang,
              >
              > I am wondering if anyone is continuing the work of
              > ATKIN in creating
              > new boats of the Sea Bright configuration?
              >
              > Any tank tests , or rules of thumb to the SB design?
              >
              > I have plans for River Belle , and her bottom is
              > quite close to my
              > requirements , just needs to be stretched to 38.7
              > and narrowed to 7.6
              > beam.
              >
              > Will do it myself if there are no pros up to
              > speed,but need to check.
              >
              > FRED
              >
              >
              >
              >




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            • sensationalknittedsocks
              I think Dave Gerr got it right. Seabrights were never designed to go that fast. Atkin warned about trying to drive them faster than their design speeds, and
              Message 6 of 10 , Apr 2, 2007
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                "I think Dave Gerr got it right.

                Seabrights were never designed to go that fast. Atkin warned about
                trying to drive them faster than their design speeds, and he had good
                reason to do so.

                Gerr in TNOB claims there still fine at SL 4

                For a 36ft lwl that would be 24K ,,fine for me as it should be doable
                in such a skinney hull at 8gph.

                "I have read that once they exceed the design speed envelope their
                hulls do not trap the wake like they do at their design speeds, and
                this adversely affects handling.

                In other words, running them faster makes them dangerous."


                The only MoTorBoat article I have that talks about a boat run with a
                2X sized re engine found the stern continued to lift , and submerged
                too much stem , causing bow steering.
                Atkins solution was simple strakes that lifted the bow , to maintain
                the same attitude at the higher speeds.

                Chine strakes cost HP to work, we are considering a trim tab set ,
                that would work backwards from normal.

                At low and medium speeds the tabs would allow the standard Atkin style
                stern lift from the aft section.

                At higher speed the stern could be lowered by opening (closing the
                tabs) the aft outlet and not immersing the bow to excess.

                At very high plaining speeds ,I'm sure the std V bottom with big dead
                rise would work fine , but 24K is not a very high speed as SL4 is
                still in the Semiplaining regime.


                FF
              • thomasp118
                Dave Gerr http://www.gerrmarine.com Some of Dave s designs which reflect the Atkin tunnel hulled, seabright skiff model:
                Message 7 of 10 , Apr 11, 2007
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                  Dave Gerr

                  http://www.gerrmarine.com

                  Some of Dave's designs which reflect the Atkin tunnel hulled,
                  seabright skiff model:

                  http://gerrmarine.com/images/boat_images/power/gerr42tunnel/gerr42tunn
                  elD.GIF

                  (note the propellor in relation to the waterline)
                  http://gerrmarine.com/images/boat_images/power/gerr76/gerr76c.GIF

                  http://gerrmarine.com/images/boat_images/power/gerr47tunnel/gerr47tunn
                  elC.JPG

                  Best of luck!
                  ~Thomas Paulay



                  --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, Sam Glasscock
                  <glasscocklanding@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Phil Bolger has a number of box keel designs, as does
                  > Chespeake Marine Designs. I don't think any of them
                  > uses a reverse deadrise tunnel like Rescue Minor et
                  > al, though.
                  > --- sensationalknittedsocks
                  > <sensationalknittedsocks@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > Hi Gang,
                  > >
                  > > I am wondering if anyone is continuing the work of
                  > > ATKIN in creating
                  > > new boats of the Sea Bright configuration?
                  > >
                  > > Any tank tests , or rules of thumb to the SB design?
                  > >
                  > > I have plans for River Belle , and her bottom is
                  > > quite close to my
                  > > requirements , just needs to be stretched to 38.7
                  > > and narrowed to 7.6
                  > > beam.
                  > >
                  > > Will do it myself if there are no pros up to
                  > > speed,but need to check.
                  > >
                  > > FRED
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  ______________________________________________________________________
                  ______________
                  > Be a PS3 game guru.
                  > Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at
                  Yahoo! Games.
                  > http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121
                  >
                • David
                  Also, check out the Mundoo series of boats (esp. M III) from Duck Flats, down in Australia. Cheers, David Graybeal Portland, OR Luck is the residue of design
                  Message 8 of 10 , Apr 11, 2007
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                    Also, check out the Mundoo series of boats (esp. M III) from Duck
                    Flats, down in Australia.

                    Cheers,
                    David Graybeal
                    Portland, OR

                    "Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey

                    *********************

                    --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, Sam Glasscock
                    <glasscocklanding@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Phil Bolger has a number of box keel designs, as does
                    > Chespeake Marine Designs. I don't think any of them
                    > uses a reverse deadrise tunnel like Rescue Minor et
                    > al, though.
                    > --- sensationalknittedsocks
                    > <sensationalknittedsocks@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > > Hi Gang,
                    > >
                    > > I am wondering if anyone is continuing the work of
                    > > ATKIN in creating
                    > > new boats of the Sea Bright configuration?
                    > >
                    > > Any tank tests , or rules of thumb to the SB design?
                    > >
                    > > I have plans for River Belle , and her bottom is
                    > > quite close to my
                    > > requirements , just needs to be stretched to 38.7
                    > > and narrowed to 7.6
                    > > beam.
                    > >
                    > > Will do it myself if there are no pros up to
                    > > speed,but need to check.
                    > >
                    > > FRED
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