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Re: Modernizing Naiad

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  • Lewis E. Gordon
    Leo, Nice drawing, not the way I would have arranged things, but the changes look good. I have one concern from just studying the online drawings. Will you
    Message 1 of 9 , Sep 12, 2006
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      Leo,

      Nice drawing, not the way I would have arranged things, but the
      changes look good. I have one concern from just studying the online
      drawings. Will you have enough width in the "feet" area on the
      V-berths without making them too high above the waterline? Naiad is
      rather "thin" in that area and I am not sure you can get the width you
      show in the drawing if you keep the berths the same stock height.

      When you get the plans and start lofting, either on the floor or on
      the computer, this question will be answered very quickly. Thanks for
      sharing the drawing with us and good luck.

      Lewis

      --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Leo" <leochill@...> wrote:
      >
      > All,
      >
      > In the files section is a scaled PDF of my desire interior changes to
      > Naiad.
      >
      > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AtkinBoats/files/Naiad%20Modernazation/>
      >
      > Dimensions are in millimeters.
      >
      > According to my conversion program, the length of 8560mm is ~.008"
      > (yes, that's 8/1000ths) from the 28' 1" quoted dimension and the beam
      > of 2642mm is ~.016 (16/1000ths) from the 8' 8" quoted dimension. –
      > Closer than I can see with my rummy eyes in my doddering old age! ;-)
      >
      > Translated to feet/inches:
      >
      > ~7' 4" from the transom to the aft PH bulkhead.
      > ~6' 3" cockpit length.
      > Tanks and storage under cockpit sole.
      >
      > ~7' 7" Pilothouse length – Admiral's seat converts to dinette seating.
      > Dinette converts to guest bed, albeit cramped.
      > Head is ~44" long – enough to sit and then stand up and fasten your
      pants.
      >
      > Engine is under the PH sole, along with other equipment.
      >
      > ~6' 6" Galley and Storage area – drawers and hanging lockers.
      > House batteries under galley sole.
      > Tanks under galley and storage modules.
      >
      > ~75" straight line measurement for the 2 vee berths - slightly longer
      > on the angle.
      > Tanks and storage under with a large overhead hatch for easy access to
      > anchor deck.
      >
      > ~30" for the anchor deck and chain locker.
      >
      > So as you can see from the PDF, there is not really a great deal of
      > difference between the original Naiad and my modernized version. The
      > major dimension difference is enclosing the PH and its length. Well,
      > that and where the amenities are located.
      >
      > After I'm in possession of the plans, it will take a bit of time to
      > get the offsets into AutoCAD and (true to the millimeter) arrangement
      > drawings made up. When (if) I get that done, I'll post another
      > general PDF to show what actually transpired versus what the day-dream
      > was.
      >
      > Best,
      >
      > Leo
      >
    • Leo
      Lewis, Excellent point and my guess is probably not. But the point of the drawing was to show that it might
      Message 2 of 9 , Sep 12, 2006
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        Lewis,

        Excellent point and my guess is probably not. But the point of the
        drawing was to show that it >>might<< be possible, not that it will.

        One point on the head being aft... Rainy day and ya come in out of
        the wet, shake off the worst under the PH overhand, take off the
        foulies and hang them to drip dry in the head. No tracking wet boots
        and clothes forward into the dryer areas of the boat.

        And I'm open to suggestions - what would have been your preference for
        layout?

        Leo

        --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Lewis E. Gordon"
        <l_gordon_nica@...> wrote:
        >
        > Leo,
        >
        > Nice drawing, not the way I would have arranged things, but the
        > changes look good. I have one concern from just studying the online
        > drawings. Will you have enough width in the "feet" area on the
        > V-berths without making them too high above the waterline? Naiad is
        > rather "thin" in that area and I am not sure you can get the width >
        you show in the drawing if you keep the berths the same stock height.
        >
        > When you get the plans and start lofting, either on the floor or on
        > the computer, this question will be answered very quickly. Thanks for
        > sharing the drawing with us and good luck.
        >
        > Lewis
      • John Hutchings
        Hi Leo, Lewis is right - your relocation of the births forward were subject to a classic optical illusion: we think we have the outside perimeter of the entire
        Message 3 of 9 , Sep 12, 2006
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          Hi Leo,
          Lewis is right - your relocation of the births forward were subject to
          a classic optical illusion: we think we have the outside perimeter
          of the entire boat plan, but there is so much flair up front that we
          in effect end up with our feet outside the hull. The births are
          just above the water line and the boat is much narrower down there.
          Also, the plans say the births are 6'5"; you say you have now
          made them 6'3". And as I recall you are 6'2". Seems too close.

          The original head is 44" "long" and you can reach out to brace
          yourself on the hull on either side in bad weather.

          By all means, go ahead and stretch and enclose the pilot house,
          but the births really are fairly well placed in the original - just stretch
          them a bit forward.

          And if you really must, move the head topsides - or maybe just
          make a mini mud room (changing room?) as your latest letter indicates.

          Getting back to the original head...
          Raise the false sheer a bit, add a bit more arch to the cabin area,
          wear low boat shoes, and maybe you'll clear the cabin roof to be able
          to use the original placed "facilities" standing up. And Bill did place an
          over"head" hatch over the head for a couple of reasons. :)

          Maybe all your various needs can work with minimal rearrangement to the
          original layout. It's all fun to ponder. Have you considered making a
          scale model?
          regards,
          s-h







          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Leo" <leochill@...>
          To: <AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 5:36 PM
          Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: Modernizing Naiad


          All,

          In the files section is a scaled PDF of my desire interior changes to
          Naiad.

          <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AtkinBoats/files/Naiad%20Modernazation/>

          Dimensions are in millimeters.

          According to my conversion program, the length of 8560mm is ~.008"
          (yes, that's 8/1000ths) from the 28' 1" quoted dimension and the beam
          of 2642mm is ~.016 (16/1000ths) from the 8' 8" quoted dimension. -
          Closer than I can see with my rummy eyes in my doddering old age! ;-)

          Translated to feet/inches:

          ~7' 4" from the transom to the aft PH bulkhead.
          ~6' 3" cockpit length.
          Tanks and storage under cockpit sole.

          ~7' 7" Pilothouse length - Admiral's seat converts to dinette seating.
          Dinette converts to guest bed, albeit cramped.
          Head is ~44" long - enough to sit and then stand up and fasten your pants.

          Engine is under the PH sole, along with other equipment.

          ~6' 6" Galley and Storage area - drawers and hanging lockers.
          House batteries under galley sole.
          Tanks under galley and storage modules.

          ~75" straight line measurement for the 2 vee berths - slightly longer
          on the angle.
          Tanks and storage under with a large overhead hatch for easy access to
          anchor deck.

          ~30" for the anchor deck and chain locker.

          So as you can see from the PDF, there is not really a great deal of
          difference between the original Naiad and my modernized version. The
          major dimension difference is enclosing the PH and its length. Well,
          that and where the amenities are located.

          After I'm in possession of the plans, it will take a bit of time to
          get the offsets into AutoCAD and (true to the millimeter) arrangement
          drawings made up. When (if) I get that done, I'll post another
          general PDF to show what actually transpired versus what the day-dream
          was.

          Best,

          Leo






          No flaming, cursing, politics, religion or public mopery. Please be polite.

          If you set out to build an Atkin boat, please do not modify the plans. If
          you stray from the plans you do so at your own risk and Atkin & Co. will
          take no responsibility for the performance of the resulting boat.

          The current Atkin boat plans catalog is online at
          <http://www.atkinboatplans.com/>


          Yahoo! Groups Links
        • Leo
          John, At lunch today I scaled the other portion of the lines drawing that is on the boat plans web site. It did not scale as neatly as the interior did –
          Message 4 of 9 , Sep 13, 2006
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            John,

            At lunch today I scaled the other portion of the lines drawing that is
            on the boat plans web site.

            It did not scale as neatly as the interior did – there were some (IMO)
            major errors – up to 6" - 7" off from the text dimensions in the
            description – so I'll shy away from any hint of a definitive statement.

            But I think that you are correct. The head may have to stay forward
            to make use of that space.

            Additionally, the text in the description says the bunks are 5' 4"
            versus your quoting 6' 4" – you must have a set of plans. I won't
            until Pat gets my check and sends the plan set back to me. Prolly a
            couple weeks or so for the mail to complete the round trip.

            A model? 1/8th scale would seem about right – that's about 42" long –
            and I think it prudent to model an interior to see the proportions and
            layout. Lots can be learned that is not readily apparent to the eye
            when looking at a computer screen or a flat sheet of paper. Well, at
            least to my eye. ;-)

            Additionally, it seems to me to also be a prudent thing to do when the
            hull is done and still empty of furniture to mock-up the furniture in
            cardboard and put it in place to see if it still looks good and will
            function like it was envisioned. Much easier to change cardboard than
            plywood…

            Best,

            Leo


            --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Hutchings" <hutch@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi Leo,
            > Lewis is right - your relocation of the births forward were subject to
            > a classic optical illusion: we think we have the outside perimeter
            > of the entire boat plan, but there is so much flair up front that we
            > in effect end up with our feet outside the hull. The births are
            > just above the water line and the boat is much narrower down there.
            > Also, the plans say the births are 6'5"; you say you have now
            > made them 6'3". And as I recall you are 6'2". Seems too close.
            >
            > The original head is 44" "long" and you can reach out to brace
            > yourself on the hull on either side in bad weather.
            >
            > By all means, go ahead and stretch and enclose the pilot house,
            > but the births really are fairly well placed in the original - just
            stretch
            > them a bit forward.
            >
            > And if you really must, move the head topsides - or maybe just
            > make a mini mud room (changing room?) as your latest letter indicates.
            >
            > Getting back to the original head...
            > Raise the false sheer a bit, add a bit more arch to the cabin area,
            > wear low boat shoes, and maybe you'll clear the cabin roof to be able
            > to use the original placed "facilities" standing up. And Bill did
            place an
            > over"head" hatch over the head for a couple of reasons. :)
            >
            > Maybe all your various needs can work with minimal rearrangement to the
            > original layout. It's all fun to ponder. Have you considered making a
            > scale model?
            > regards,
            > s-h
          • Lewis E. Gordon
            Leo, Well, you asked! I seem to prefer a port side helm. Maybe it s because I m right handed and it s easier to reach and grab things (a hot sandwich
            Message 5 of 9 , Sep 13, 2006
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              Leo,

              Well, you asked! <grin> I seem to prefer a port side helm. Maybe it's
              because I'm right handed and it's easier to reach and grab things (a
              hot sandwich passed from the galley) with my right hand. Assuming a
              three or four cyl diesel instead of the flathead six, the cabin/PH
              bulkhead might be moved back 12-14 inches and still have access room
              at the front. Also, these modern diesels are much taller than the
              specified six so I would leave room for a step in front of the engine
              box. I think you will be surprised at the height required above the PH
              sole to the top of the engine cover.

              Regarding berths, the text does say 5'4", but I think he is referring
              to the lockers under the berths. I scaled the berths at 6'4" (metric
              scale on my curved monitor face, not the best accuracy). Since I feel
              Naiad is rather thin just above the waterline, I would leave the foot
              position of the port side berth as shown and lengthen the head
              position to get the length you need. This should still allow you to
              lengthen the galley slightly. For the starboard side berth, I would
              move the whole berth forward maybe 12" and lengthen/widen the foot
              area into the space vacated by moving the head aft. I would place the
              head starboard side forward of the bulkhead with a door opening into
              the middle (walking area) of the cabin. You might be able to design an
              access door to pass wet oilskins into a "wet locker" in the head area
              from the PH.

              As far as arranging the enclosed pilothouse, I will leave that up to
              you. I live in a tropical climate and would want it wide open with
              zippered side and aft covers. You have different requirements in your
              climate and you know best what you need.

              It's funny; I have grown to like this Naiad design. The only negative
              is the 2,000 pound ballast mentioned. Weight equals HP and fuel costs.

              I look forward to your posting construction photos soon.

              Lewis


              --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Leo" <leochill@...> wrote:
              >
              > Lewis,
              >
              > Excellent point and my guess is probably not. But the point of the
              > drawing was to show that it >>might<< be possible, not that it will.
              >
              > One point on the head being aft... Rainy day and ya come in out of
              > the wet, shake off the worst under the PH overhand, take off the
              > foulies and hang them to drip dry in the head. No tracking wet boots
              > and clothes forward into the dryer areas of the boat.
              >
              > And I'm open to suggestions - what would have been your preference for
              > layout?
              >
              > Leo
              >
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