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Re: [AtkinBoats] Re: Rescue Minor Model

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  • John Kohnen
    Thanks Ron, but I ll try to get some of the photos online before the disc disappears again. Too bad I didn t send you a copy of the CD I was looking for when I
    Message 1 of 17 , Aug 29, 2006
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      Thanks Ron, but I'll try to get some of the photos online before the disc
      disappears again. Too bad I didn't send you a copy of the CD I was looking
      for when I found the one Rich sent me! <g>

      I missed you at the St. Helens steamboat meet, where were you? Looks like
      that steam canoe, Feeble II, is the one to beat...

      http://www.pcez.com/~artemis/NWSSBfee.htm

      On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 19:34:07 -0700, Ron Fossum wrote:

      > If you loose it again John, I have the one you sent me at hand. Probably
      > not
      > the best way to go as it would be a copy of the copy you sent me (third
      > generation?), but better than nothing!.

      --
      John <jkohnen@...>
      If perfection were needed for friendship the world would be a
      wilderness for our love. <Thomas Jefferson>
    • Ronald Fossum
      I was there. Yeah, Feeble II can go , but you d need more than the Columbia River to turn her around in when she s moving. Ron ... From: John Kohnen
      Message 2 of 17 , Aug 29, 2006
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        I was there. Yeah, Feeble II can "go", but you'd need more than the Columbia
        River to turn her around in when she's moving.

        Ron
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "John Kohnen" <jkohnen@...>
        To: <AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 8:35 PM
        Subject: Re: [AtkinBoats] Re: Rescue Minor Model


        > Thanks Ron, but I'll try to get some of the photos online before the disc
        > disappears again. Too bad I didn't send you a copy of the CD I was looking
        > for when I found the one Rich sent me! <g>
        >
        > I missed you at the St. Helens steamboat meet, where were you? Looks like
        > that steam canoe, Feeble II, is the one to beat...
        >
        > http://www.pcez.com/~artemis/NWSSBfee.htm
        >
        > On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 19:34:07 -0700, Ron Fossum wrote:
        >
        >> If you loose it again John, I have the one you sent me at hand. Probably
        >> not
        >> the best way to go as it would be a copy of the copy you sent me (third
        >> generation?), but better than nothing!.
        >
        > --
        > John <jkohnen@...>
        > If perfection were needed for friendship the world would be a
        > wilderness for our love. <Thomas Jefferson>
        >
        >
        > No flaming, cursing, politics, religion or public mopery. Please be
        > polite.
        >
        > If you set out to build an Atkin boat, please do not modify the plans. If
        > you stray from the plans you do so at your own risk and Atkin & Co. will
        > take no responsibility for the performance of the resulting boat.
        >
        > The current Atkin boat plans catalog is online at
        > <http://www.atkinboatplans.com/>
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • John Kohnen
        Here are some of the photos Rich Ledergerber sent me: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jkohnen/sets/72157594259565340/ He decided to go with frames and lighter
        Message 3 of 17 , Aug 30, 2006
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          Here are some of the photos Rich Ledergerber sent me:

          http://www.flickr.com/photos/jkohnen/sets/72157594259565340/

          He decided to go with frames and lighter plywood rather than the 3/4" ply
          and just a few bulkheads and floors called for in the plans. I wonder if
          Rich ever started building the real thing. Are you out there Rich?

          --
          John <jkohnen@...>
          Heaven, as conventionally conceived, is a place so inane, so
          dull, so useless, so miserable, that nobody has ever ventured to
          describe a whole day in heaven, though plenty of people have
          described a day at the seashore. <G. B. Shaw>
        • Lewis E. Gordon
          What an impressive design (and model). I got a headache from studying all those changing, intersecting angles on all 21 photos. I don t know Rich, but from the
          Message 4 of 17 , Aug 30, 2006
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            What an impressive design (and model). I got a headache from studying
            all those changing, intersecting angles on all 21 photos. I don't know
            Rich, but from the attention to detail I'll bet that he stayed very
            close to the plan offsets; and I couldn't see any really ugly bulges
            from forcing the plywood into shape.

            Lewis

            --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jkohnen@...> wrote:
            >
            > Here are some of the photos Rich Ledergerber sent me:
            >
            > http://www.flickr.com/photos/jkohnen/sets/72157594259565340/
            >
            > He decided to go with frames and lighter plywood rather than the
            3/4" ply
            > and just a few bulkheads and floors called for in the plans. I
            wonder if
            > Rich ever started building the real thing. Are you out there Rich?
            >
            > --
            > John <jkohnen@...>
            > Heaven, as conventionally conceived, is a place so inane, so
            > dull, so useless, so miserable, that nobody has ever ventured to
            > describe a whole day in heaven, though plenty of people have
            > described a day at the seashore. <G. B. Shaw>
            >
          • John Kohnen
            Rich punted when he had difficulty getting a plywood sheet wrap around the forward bottom and twist to meet the stem -- he switched to batten seam planking in
            Message 5 of 17 , Aug 31, 2006
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              Rich punted when he had difficulty getting a plywood sheet wrap around the
              forward bottom and twist to meet the stem -- he switched to batten seam
              planking in that area. In the Rescue Minor article Wm. Atkin said that the
              garboard strake might have to be "molded in place," or words to that
              effect.

              On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 19:45:50 -0700, Lewis G wrote:

              > What an impressive design (and model). I got a headache from studying
              > all those changing, intersecting angles on all 21 photos. I don't know
              > Rich, but from the attention to detail I'll bet that he stayed very
              > close to the plan offsets; and I couldn't see any really ugly bulges
              > from forcing the plywood into shape.

              --
              John <jkohnen@...>
              I have no truck with lettuce, cabbage, and similar chlorophyll.
              Any dietician will tell you that a running foot of apple strudel
              contains four times the vitamins of a bushel of beans. <S. J.
              Perelman>
            • windmill4048
              Thanks for posting the model photos. In comparing them to the plans it looks like the model does not capture the tunnel shape well at all. The plans show an
              Message 6 of 17 , Aug 31, 2006
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                Thanks for posting the model photos.

                In comparing them to the plans it looks like the model does not
                capture the tunnel shape well at all. The plans show an arc in the
                top of the tunnel running from the forward end to the aft end. I
                don't see that present in the model pictures. It may just be my
                poor eyesight. Was that one of the simplifying moves that had to be
                made to make the construction work?

                This shape is important, suspect, since it would tend to add a bit
                of fluid dynamic lift to the flow of the water running under the
                boat. I keep seeing ol' Bernoulli hanging around there.

                --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jkohnen@...> wrote:
                >
                > Here are some of the photos Rich Ledergerber sent me:
                >
                > http://www.flickr.com/photos/jkohnen/sets/72157594259565340/
                >
                > He decided to go with frames and lighter plywood rather than the
                3/4" ply
                > and just a few bulkheads and floors called for in the plans. I
                wonder if
                > Rich ever started building the real thing. Are you out there Rich?
                >
                > --
                > John <jkohnen@...>
                > Heaven, as conventionally conceived, is a place so inane, so
                > dull, so useless, so miserable, that nobody has ever ventured to
                > describe a whole day in heaven, though plenty of people have
                > described a day at the seashore. <G. B. Shaw>
                >
              • Rob Rohde-Szudy
                Wow, now THAT is a model! Thanks John. --Rob ... Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                Message 7 of 17 , Aug 31, 2006
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                  Wow, now THAT is a model! Thanks John.
                  --Rob


                  ---------------------------------
                  Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • John Kohnen
                  The plans show the top of the reverse V going aft pretty straight from the sternpost, look at the body plan on the lines to get a better idea. What might look
                  Message 8 of 17 , Aug 31, 2006
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                    The plans show the top of the reverse V going aft pretty straight from the
                    sternpost, look at the body plan on the lines to get a better idea. What
                    might look like a downward curve on the profile is actually the top of the
                    rudder. I think Rich got the shape right in his model.

                    On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 06:43:17 -0700, windmill4048 wrote:

                    > ...
                    > In comparing them to the plans it looks like the model does not
                    > capture the tunnel shape well at all. The plans show an arc in the
                    > top of the tunnel running from the forward end to the aft end. I
                    > don't see that present in the model pictures. It may just be my
                    > poor eyesight. Was that one of the simplifying moves that had to be
                    > made to make the construction work?
                    >
                    > This shape is important, suspect, since it would tend to add a bit
                    > of fluid dynamic lift to the flow of the water running under the
                    > boat. I keep seeing ol' Bernoulli hanging around there.

                    --
                    John <jkohnen@...>
                    Eels are said to kelter in the water when they wamble.
                  • Hugo Tyson
                    Yes I think the model looks pretty spot on also after just having a look at the RM plans. John Kohnen wrote: The plans show the top
                    Message 9 of 17 , Aug 31, 2006
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                      Yes I think the model looks pretty spot on also after just having a look at the RM plans.

                      John Kohnen <jkohnen@...> wrote: The plans show the top of the reverse V going aft pretty straight from the
                      sternpost, look at the body plan on the lines to get a better idea. What
                      might look like a downward curve on the profile is actually the top of the
                      rudder. I think Rich got the shape right in his model.

                      On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 06:43:17 -0700, windmill4048 wrote:

                      > ...
                      > In comparing them to the plans it looks like the model does not
                      > capture the tunnel shape well at all. The plans show an arc in the
                      > top of the tunnel running from the forward end to the aft end. I
                      > don't see that present in the model pictures. It may just be my
                      > poor eyesight. Was that one of the simplifying moves that had to be
                      > made to make the construction work?
                      >
                      > This shape is important, suspect, since it would tend to add a bit
                      > of fluid dynamic lift to the flow of the water running under the
                      > boat. I keep seeing ol' Bernoulli hanging around there.

                      --
                      John
                      Eels are said to kelter in the water when they wamble.


                      No flaming, cursing, politics, religion or public mopery. Please be polite.

                      If you set out to build an Atkin boat, please do not modify the plans. If you stray from the plans you do so at your own risk and Atkin & Co. will take no responsibility for the performance of the resulting boat.

                      The current Atkin boat plans catalog is online at



                      Yahoo! Groups Links










                      ---------------------------------
                      On Yahoo!7
                      Fuel Price Watch - Find and map the cheapest petrol prices in Australia

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • windmill4048
                      Ok, please help me understand what I am looking at in the plans. In both the framing and line drawing plans there is an arched line shown running from the
                      Message 10 of 17 , Sep 2, 2006
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                        Ok, please help me understand what I am looking at in the plans.

                        In both the framing and line drawing plans there is an arched line
                        shown running from the transom to just foreward of sta. 9. In the
                        framing plans this is shown as a solid piece of wood from the middle
                        of sta. 10-11 to the transom. That piece of wood is shown as the
                        top of the tunnel and over the rudder and prop.

                        What am I looking at?

                        --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, Hugo Tyson <hhetyson@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Yes I think the model looks pretty spot on also after just having
                        a look at the RM plans.
                        >
                        > John Kohnen <jkohnen@...> wrote: The plans show the top of the
                        reverse V going aft pretty straight from the
                        > sternpost, look at the body plan on the lines to get a better
                        idea. What
                        > might look like a downward curve on the profile is actually the
                        top of the
                        > rudder. I think Rich got the shape right in his model.
                        >
                        > On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 06:43:17 -0700, windmill4048 wrote:
                        >
                        > > ...
                        > > In comparing them to the plans it looks like the model does not
                        > > capture the tunnel shape well at all. The plans show an arc in
                        the
                        > > top of the tunnel running from the forward end to the aft end. I
                        > > don't see that present in the model pictures. It may just be my
                        > > poor eyesight. Was that one of the simplifying moves that had to
                        be
                        > > made to make the construction work?
                        > >
                        > > This shape is important, suspect, since it would tend to add a
                        bit
                        > > of fluid dynamic lift to the flow of the water running under the
                        > > boat. I keep seeing ol' Bernoulli hanging around there.
                        >
                        > --
                        > John
                        > Eels are said to kelter in the water when they wamble.
                        >
                        >
                        > No flaming, cursing, politics, religion or public mopery. Please
                        be polite.
                        >
                        > If you set out to build an Atkin boat, please do not modify the
                        plans. If you stray from the plans you do so at your own risk and
                        Atkin & Co. will take no responsibility for the performance of the
                        resulting boat.
                        >
                        > The current Atkin boat plans catalog is online at
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ---------------------------------
                        > On Yahoo!7
                        > Fuel Price Watch - Find and map the cheapest petrol prices in
                        Australia
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                      • Lewis E. Gordon
                        Sigh!! I sure wish I had a set of plans in front of me so that I could join in this discussion. Oh what the heck, I m going to stick my oar in the water
                        Message 11 of 17 , Sep 2, 2006
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                          Sigh!! I sure wish I had a set of plans in front of me so that I
                          could join in this discussion. Oh what the heck, I'm going to stick my
                          oar in the water anyway.

                          I think that you are basically correct although the downward curve of
                          the top of the tunnel aft seems to be very slight. Having only the
                          lines in the on-line catalog available, the first photo shows a stern
                          view drawing and the aft opening of the tunnel shows a straight line
                          from the apex of the inverted V (at the transom) to the chine. The
                          left hand side of the lines drawing also shows the same straight line,
                          with a hint of slightly higher elevation at station 11.

                          The profile view shows a hint of downturn starting at the propeller
                          (station 11 1/4). However it is confusing in that the top of the
                          rudder curves downward more (makes sense) and the eye tries to follow
                          the curve of the rudder.

                          Could you scale the plans (or measure from your full size loft-up) the
                          actual amount of this downturn of the top of the tunnel to the transom
                          and let us know. It has to be there, as quoting from Atkins "Under way
                          at top speed the draft will remain at 6 inches." implying no squat aft
                          because of the tunnel. In addition, Mr. White also wrote of this
                          phenomena of the stern rising as one approached top speed (and not
                          disturbing the sand dollars in six inches of water.)

                          I need to part with $75 and get me a set of plans.

                          Lewis


                          --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "windmill4048" <baileyd4048@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Ok, please help me understand what I am looking at in the plans.
                          >
                          > In both the framing and line drawing plans there is an arched line
                          > shown running from the transom to just foreward of sta. 9. In the
                          > framing plans this is shown as a solid piece of wood from the middle
                          > of sta. 10-11 to the transom. That piece of wood is shown as the
                          > top of the tunnel and over the rudder and prop.
                          >
                          > What am I looking at?
                          >
                        • John Kohnen
                          Here s a better image of Rescue Minor s lines: http://www.boat-links.com/images/RescueMinorLines.gif There is a slight arc to the top of the tunnel aft of the
                          Message 12 of 17 , Sep 2, 2006
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                            Here's a better image of Rescue Minor's lines:

                            http://www.boat-links.com/images/RescueMinorLines.gif

                            There is a slight arc to the top of the tunnel aft of the sternpost. At
                            station 10, forward of the sternpost, the height of the top of the
                            inverted V is 10" above the baseline, at station 11 it's 11 3/4" and at
                            the transom it's 10 1/2" above the baseline. I think Rich got that in his
                            model.

                            On Sat, 02 Sep 2006 05:30:35 -0700, windmill4048 wrote:

                            > Ok, please help me understand what I am looking at in the plans.
                            >
                            > In both the framing and line drawing plans there is an arched line
                            > shown running from the transom to just foreward of sta. 9. In the
                            > framing plans this is shown as a solid piece of wood from the middle
                            > of sta. 10-11 to the transom. That piece of wood is shown as the
                            > top of the tunnel and over the rudder and prop.
                            >
                            > What am I looking at?

                            --
                            John <jkohnen@...>
                            No man will be a sailor who has contrivance enough to get
                            himself into jail; for being in a ship is being in a jail, with
                            the chance of being drowned... A man in jail has more room,
                            better food, and commonly better company. <Samuel Johnson>
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