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Re: [AtkinBoats] Re: Rescue Minor Model

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  • Ronald Fossum
    If you loose it again John, I have the one you sent me at hand. Probably not the best way to go as it would be a copy of the copy you sent me (third
    Message 1 of 17 , Aug 29, 2006
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      If you loose it again John, I have the one you sent me at hand. Probably not
      the best way to go as it would be a copy of the copy you sent me (third
      generation?), but better than nothing!.

      Ron

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "John Kohnen" <jkohnen@...>
      To: <AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 6:39 PM
      Subject: Re: [AtkinBoats] Re: Rescue Minor Model


      > For some perverse reason I keep misplacing Rich's disc. :o( But I stumbled
      > upon it today while looking for something else. :o) When I went looking
      > for it the other day it was nowhere to be found. <g> It's sitting right
      > beside me now and I'll get some of the photos online soon -- maybe even
      > tonite. I've been awful busy getting Pickle cleaned up for Port Townsend
      > and getting the stuff together for the Atkin & Co. booth...
      >
      > On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 07:19:05 -0700, Rob wrote:
      >
      >> Interesting!!! So whaddayagot, John? (Thanks in advance!)
      >
      > --
      > John <jkohnen@...>
      > Love is the delightful interval between meeting a beautiful girl
      > and discovering she looks like a haddock. <John Barrymore>
      >
      >
      > No flaming, cursing, politics, religion or public mopery. Please be
      > polite.
      >
      > If you set out to build an Atkin boat, please do not modify the plans. If
      > you stray from the plans you do so at your own risk and Atkin & Co. will
      > take no responsibility for the performance of the resulting boat.
      >
      > The current Atkin boat plans catalog is online at
      > <http://www.atkinboatplans.com/>
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • John Kohnen
      Thanks Ron, but I ll try to get some of the photos online before the disc disappears again. Too bad I didn t send you a copy of the CD I was looking for when I
      Message 2 of 17 , Aug 29, 2006
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        Thanks Ron, but I'll try to get some of the photos online before the disc
        disappears again. Too bad I didn't send you a copy of the CD I was looking
        for when I found the one Rich sent me! <g>

        I missed you at the St. Helens steamboat meet, where were you? Looks like
        that steam canoe, Feeble II, is the one to beat...

        http://www.pcez.com/~artemis/NWSSBfee.htm

        On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 19:34:07 -0700, Ron Fossum wrote:

        > If you loose it again John, I have the one you sent me at hand. Probably
        > not
        > the best way to go as it would be a copy of the copy you sent me (third
        > generation?), but better than nothing!.

        --
        John <jkohnen@...>
        If perfection were needed for friendship the world would be a
        wilderness for our love. <Thomas Jefferson>
      • Ronald Fossum
        I was there. Yeah, Feeble II can go , but you d need more than the Columbia River to turn her around in when she s moving. Ron ... From: John Kohnen
        Message 3 of 17 , Aug 29, 2006
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          I was there. Yeah, Feeble II can "go", but you'd need more than the Columbia
          River to turn her around in when she's moving.

          Ron
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "John Kohnen" <jkohnen@...>
          To: <AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 8:35 PM
          Subject: Re: [AtkinBoats] Re: Rescue Minor Model


          > Thanks Ron, but I'll try to get some of the photos online before the disc
          > disappears again. Too bad I didn't send you a copy of the CD I was looking
          > for when I found the one Rich sent me! <g>
          >
          > I missed you at the St. Helens steamboat meet, where were you? Looks like
          > that steam canoe, Feeble II, is the one to beat...
          >
          > http://www.pcez.com/~artemis/NWSSBfee.htm
          >
          > On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 19:34:07 -0700, Ron Fossum wrote:
          >
          >> If you loose it again John, I have the one you sent me at hand. Probably
          >> not
          >> the best way to go as it would be a copy of the copy you sent me (third
          >> generation?), but better than nothing!.
          >
          > --
          > John <jkohnen@...>
          > If perfection were needed for friendship the world would be a
          > wilderness for our love. <Thomas Jefferson>
          >
          >
          > No flaming, cursing, politics, religion or public mopery. Please be
          > polite.
          >
          > If you set out to build an Atkin boat, please do not modify the plans. If
          > you stray from the plans you do so at your own risk and Atkin & Co. will
          > take no responsibility for the performance of the resulting boat.
          >
          > The current Atkin boat plans catalog is online at
          > <http://www.atkinboatplans.com/>
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • John Kohnen
          Here are some of the photos Rich Ledergerber sent me: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jkohnen/sets/72157594259565340/ He decided to go with frames and lighter
          Message 4 of 17 , Aug 30, 2006
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            Here are some of the photos Rich Ledergerber sent me:

            http://www.flickr.com/photos/jkohnen/sets/72157594259565340/

            He decided to go with frames and lighter plywood rather than the 3/4" ply
            and just a few bulkheads and floors called for in the plans. I wonder if
            Rich ever started building the real thing. Are you out there Rich?

            --
            John <jkohnen@...>
            Heaven, as conventionally conceived, is a place so inane, so
            dull, so useless, so miserable, that nobody has ever ventured to
            describe a whole day in heaven, though plenty of people have
            described a day at the seashore. <G. B. Shaw>
          • Lewis E. Gordon
            What an impressive design (and model). I got a headache from studying all those changing, intersecting angles on all 21 photos. I don t know Rich, but from the
            Message 5 of 17 , Aug 30, 2006
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              What an impressive design (and model). I got a headache from studying
              all those changing, intersecting angles on all 21 photos. I don't know
              Rich, but from the attention to detail I'll bet that he stayed very
              close to the plan offsets; and I couldn't see any really ugly bulges
              from forcing the plywood into shape.

              Lewis

              --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jkohnen@...> wrote:
              >
              > Here are some of the photos Rich Ledergerber sent me:
              >
              > http://www.flickr.com/photos/jkohnen/sets/72157594259565340/
              >
              > He decided to go with frames and lighter plywood rather than the
              3/4" ply
              > and just a few bulkheads and floors called for in the plans. I
              wonder if
              > Rich ever started building the real thing. Are you out there Rich?
              >
              > --
              > John <jkohnen@...>
              > Heaven, as conventionally conceived, is a place so inane, so
              > dull, so useless, so miserable, that nobody has ever ventured to
              > describe a whole day in heaven, though plenty of people have
              > described a day at the seashore. <G. B. Shaw>
              >
            • John Kohnen
              Rich punted when he had difficulty getting a plywood sheet wrap around the forward bottom and twist to meet the stem -- he switched to batten seam planking in
              Message 6 of 17 , Aug 31, 2006
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                Rich punted when he had difficulty getting a plywood sheet wrap around the
                forward bottom and twist to meet the stem -- he switched to batten seam
                planking in that area. In the Rescue Minor article Wm. Atkin said that the
                garboard strake might have to be "molded in place," or words to that
                effect.

                On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 19:45:50 -0700, Lewis G wrote:

                > What an impressive design (and model). I got a headache from studying
                > all those changing, intersecting angles on all 21 photos. I don't know
                > Rich, but from the attention to detail I'll bet that he stayed very
                > close to the plan offsets; and I couldn't see any really ugly bulges
                > from forcing the plywood into shape.

                --
                John <jkohnen@...>
                I have no truck with lettuce, cabbage, and similar chlorophyll.
                Any dietician will tell you that a running foot of apple strudel
                contains four times the vitamins of a bushel of beans. <S. J.
                Perelman>
              • windmill4048
                Thanks for posting the model photos. In comparing them to the plans it looks like the model does not capture the tunnel shape well at all. The plans show an
                Message 7 of 17 , Aug 31, 2006
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                  Thanks for posting the model photos.

                  In comparing them to the plans it looks like the model does not
                  capture the tunnel shape well at all. The plans show an arc in the
                  top of the tunnel running from the forward end to the aft end. I
                  don't see that present in the model pictures. It may just be my
                  poor eyesight. Was that one of the simplifying moves that had to be
                  made to make the construction work?

                  This shape is important, suspect, since it would tend to add a bit
                  of fluid dynamic lift to the flow of the water running under the
                  boat. I keep seeing ol' Bernoulli hanging around there.

                  --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jkohnen@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Here are some of the photos Rich Ledergerber sent me:
                  >
                  > http://www.flickr.com/photos/jkohnen/sets/72157594259565340/
                  >
                  > He decided to go with frames and lighter plywood rather than the
                  3/4" ply
                  > and just a few bulkheads and floors called for in the plans. I
                  wonder if
                  > Rich ever started building the real thing. Are you out there Rich?
                  >
                  > --
                  > John <jkohnen@...>
                  > Heaven, as conventionally conceived, is a place so inane, so
                  > dull, so useless, so miserable, that nobody has ever ventured to
                  > describe a whole day in heaven, though plenty of people have
                  > described a day at the seashore. <G. B. Shaw>
                  >
                • Rob Rohde-Szudy
                  Wow, now THAT is a model! Thanks John. --Rob ... Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  Message 8 of 17 , Aug 31, 2006
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                    Wow, now THAT is a model! Thanks John.
                    --Rob


                    ---------------------------------
                    Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • John Kohnen
                    The plans show the top of the reverse V going aft pretty straight from the sternpost, look at the body plan on the lines to get a better idea. What might look
                    Message 9 of 17 , Aug 31, 2006
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                      The plans show the top of the reverse V going aft pretty straight from the
                      sternpost, look at the body plan on the lines to get a better idea. What
                      might look like a downward curve on the profile is actually the top of the
                      rudder. I think Rich got the shape right in his model.

                      On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 06:43:17 -0700, windmill4048 wrote:

                      > ...
                      > In comparing them to the plans it looks like the model does not
                      > capture the tunnel shape well at all. The plans show an arc in the
                      > top of the tunnel running from the forward end to the aft end. I
                      > don't see that present in the model pictures. It may just be my
                      > poor eyesight. Was that one of the simplifying moves that had to be
                      > made to make the construction work?
                      >
                      > This shape is important, suspect, since it would tend to add a bit
                      > of fluid dynamic lift to the flow of the water running under the
                      > boat. I keep seeing ol' Bernoulli hanging around there.

                      --
                      John <jkohnen@...>
                      Eels are said to kelter in the water when they wamble.
                    • Hugo Tyson
                      Yes I think the model looks pretty spot on also after just having a look at the RM plans. John Kohnen wrote: The plans show the top
                      Message 10 of 17 , Aug 31, 2006
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                        Yes I think the model looks pretty spot on also after just having a look at the RM plans.

                        John Kohnen <jkohnen@...> wrote: The plans show the top of the reverse V going aft pretty straight from the
                        sternpost, look at the body plan on the lines to get a better idea. What
                        might look like a downward curve on the profile is actually the top of the
                        rudder. I think Rich got the shape right in his model.

                        On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 06:43:17 -0700, windmill4048 wrote:

                        > ...
                        > In comparing them to the plans it looks like the model does not
                        > capture the tunnel shape well at all. The plans show an arc in the
                        > top of the tunnel running from the forward end to the aft end. I
                        > don't see that present in the model pictures. It may just be my
                        > poor eyesight. Was that one of the simplifying moves that had to be
                        > made to make the construction work?
                        >
                        > This shape is important, suspect, since it would tend to add a bit
                        > of fluid dynamic lift to the flow of the water running under the
                        > boat. I keep seeing ol' Bernoulli hanging around there.

                        --
                        John
                        Eels are said to kelter in the water when they wamble.


                        No flaming, cursing, politics, religion or public mopery. Please be polite.

                        If you set out to build an Atkin boat, please do not modify the plans. If you stray from the plans you do so at your own risk and Atkin & Co. will take no responsibility for the performance of the resulting boat.

                        The current Atkin boat plans catalog is online at



                        Yahoo! Groups Links










                        ---------------------------------
                        On Yahoo!7
                        Fuel Price Watch - Find and map the cheapest petrol prices in Australia

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • windmill4048
                        Ok, please help me understand what I am looking at in the plans. In both the framing and line drawing plans there is an arched line shown running from the
                        Message 11 of 17 , Sep 2, 2006
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                          Ok, please help me understand what I am looking at in the plans.

                          In both the framing and line drawing plans there is an arched line
                          shown running from the transom to just foreward of sta. 9. In the
                          framing plans this is shown as a solid piece of wood from the middle
                          of sta. 10-11 to the transom. That piece of wood is shown as the
                          top of the tunnel and over the rudder and prop.

                          What am I looking at?

                          --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, Hugo Tyson <hhetyson@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Yes I think the model looks pretty spot on also after just having
                          a look at the RM plans.
                          >
                          > John Kohnen <jkohnen@...> wrote: The plans show the top of the
                          reverse V going aft pretty straight from the
                          > sternpost, look at the body plan on the lines to get a better
                          idea. What
                          > might look like a downward curve on the profile is actually the
                          top of the
                          > rudder. I think Rich got the shape right in his model.
                          >
                          > On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 06:43:17 -0700, windmill4048 wrote:
                          >
                          > > ...
                          > > In comparing them to the plans it looks like the model does not
                          > > capture the tunnel shape well at all. The plans show an arc in
                          the
                          > > top of the tunnel running from the forward end to the aft end. I
                          > > don't see that present in the model pictures. It may just be my
                          > > poor eyesight. Was that one of the simplifying moves that had to
                          be
                          > > made to make the construction work?
                          > >
                          > > This shape is important, suspect, since it would tend to add a
                          bit
                          > > of fluid dynamic lift to the flow of the water running under the
                          > > boat. I keep seeing ol' Bernoulli hanging around there.
                          >
                          > --
                          > John
                          > Eels are said to kelter in the water when they wamble.
                          >
                          >
                          > No flaming, cursing, politics, religion or public mopery. Please
                          be polite.
                          >
                          > If you set out to build an Atkin boat, please do not modify the
                          plans. If you stray from the plans you do so at your own risk and
                          Atkin & Co. will take no responsibility for the performance of the
                          resulting boat.
                          >
                          > The current Atkin boat plans catalog is online at
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ---------------------------------
                          > On Yahoo!7
                          > Fuel Price Watch - Find and map the cheapest petrol prices in
                          Australia
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                        • Lewis E. Gordon
                          Sigh!! I sure wish I had a set of plans in front of me so that I could join in this discussion. Oh what the heck, I m going to stick my oar in the water
                          Message 12 of 17 , Sep 2, 2006
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                            Sigh!! I sure wish I had a set of plans in front of me so that I
                            could join in this discussion. Oh what the heck, I'm going to stick my
                            oar in the water anyway.

                            I think that you are basically correct although the downward curve of
                            the top of the tunnel aft seems to be very slight. Having only the
                            lines in the on-line catalog available, the first photo shows a stern
                            view drawing and the aft opening of the tunnel shows a straight line
                            from the apex of the inverted V (at the transom) to the chine. The
                            left hand side of the lines drawing also shows the same straight line,
                            with a hint of slightly higher elevation at station 11.

                            The profile view shows a hint of downturn starting at the propeller
                            (station 11 1/4). However it is confusing in that the top of the
                            rudder curves downward more (makes sense) and the eye tries to follow
                            the curve of the rudder.

                            Could you scale the plans (or measure from your full size loft-up) the
                            actual amount of this downturn of the top of the tunnel to the transom
                            and let us know. It has to be there, as quoting from Atkins "Under way
                            at top speed the draft will remain at 6 inches." implying no squat aft
                            because of the tunnel. In addition, Mr. White also wrote of this
                            phenomena of the stern rising as one approached top speed (and not
                            disturbing the sand dollars in six inches of water.)

                            I need to part with $75 and get me a set of plans.

                            Lewis


                            --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "windmill4048" <baileyd4048@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Ok, please help me understand what I am looking at in the plans.
                            >
                            > In both the framing and line drawing plans there is an arched line
                            > shown running from the transom to just foreward of sta. 9. In the
                            > framing plans this is shown as a solid piece of wood from the middle
                            > of sta. 10-11 to the transom. That piece of wood is shown as the
                            > top of the tunnel and over the rudder and prop.
                            >
                            > What am I looking at?
                            >
                          • John Kohnen
                            Here s a better image of Rescue Minor s lines: http://www.boat-links.com/images/RescueMinorLines.gif There is a slight arc to the top of the tunnel aft of the
                            Message 13 of 17 , Sep 2, 2006
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                              Here's a better image of Rescue Minor's lines:

                              http://www.boat-links.com/images/RescueMinorLines.gif

                              There is a slight arc to the top of the tunnel aft of the sternpost. At
                              station 10, forward of the sternpost, the height of the top of the
                              inverted V is 10" above the baseline, at station 11 it's 11 3/4" and at
                              the transom it's 10 1/2" above the baseline. I think Rich got that in his
                              model.

                              On Sat, 02 Sep 2006 05:30:35 -0700, windmill4048 wrote:

                              > Ok, please help me understand what I am looking at in the plans.
                              >
                              > In both the framing and line drawing plans there is an arched line
                              > shown running from the transom to just foreward of sta. 9. In the
                              > framing plans this is shown as a solid piece of wood from the middle
                              > of sta. 10-11 to the transom. That piece of wood is shown as the
                              > top of the tunnel and over the rudder and prop.
                              >
                              > What am I looking at?

                              --
                              John <jkohnen@...>
                              No man will be a sailor who has contrivance enough to get
                              himself into jail; for being in a ship is being in a jail, with
                              the chance of being drowned... A man in jail has more room,
                              better food, and commonly better company. <Samuel Johnson>
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