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Re: Rescue Minor Power

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  • p.mathers
    -Rob; WWW.SURPLUSCENTER.COM has 14 of em. All the best Patrick-- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, Rob Rohde-Szudy ... correct that there would be too
    Message 1 of 8 , Aug 29, 2006
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      -Rob; WWW.SURPLUSCENTER.COM has 14 of em. All the best
      Patrick-- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, Rob Rohde-Szudy
      <robrohdeszudy@...> wrote:
      >
      > Yup, that's exactly why Robb's was splayed opposite. You are
      correct that there would be too much slip to use a wheel for
      forward. You'd need a hydraulic press to get it tight enough and all
      the parts would have to be waaaay too heavy. If you want to do it
      Atkin's way, run the shaft all the way under the motor and mount the
      motor backwards. The trouble is that this makes for a taller
      installation. You might be able to tension sideways though.
      >
      > I plan to do a whole different way. Since I live in the Kingdom
      of Evinrude, 50-year-old outboards are dirt cheap. I'm going to use
      an old 25 horse powerhead adn lower unit. The lower unit mounted on
      the tunnel by bolting the cavitation plate, an intermediate shaft to
      get the power form down low to up high (and run the water pump and
      anything else), and a shock mount for the powerhead. Cogged belts
      all around for low tension, at the expense of some noise.
      >
      > The only trouble is that the lower unit might leak air. The prop
      will want to suck air through any bad seals, and this might ruin
      this whole idea. We'll see. Unless I get a good deal on a Kawasaki
      in the meantime!
      >
      > --Rob
      >
      >
      > Re: Rescue Minor Model
      > Posted by: "p.mathers" p.mathers@... p.mathers
      > Date: Mon Aug 28, 2006 6:32 pm (PDT)
      >
      > I'll ditto that! I'd love to see some pic's. Rob, I think it was
      one
      > of your early post"s saying
      > that Robb White's RM's prop shaft was splayed opposite to what is
      on
      > the plans and that he used a left turning prop. I assume that is
      > because there is no gearbox to reverse the motors direction of
      > revolution. Robb used belts for forward, a wheel for reverse, do
      you
      > think that you could use a wheel for foward and build to plan
      using
      > a right hand prop or
      > that slippage would be a problem? I'm looking at a 27 hp gas
      > Kawisaki motor new surplus, but a little tall. All the best
      > Patrick -
      >
      >
      > __________________________________________________
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      > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • Lewis E. Gordon
      I have a different recollection of Robb s remarks concerning the mounting of the motor. I remember reading that he offset the motor and shaft slightly
      Message 2 of 8 , Aug 29, 2006
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        I have a different recollection <IIRC> of Robb's remarks concerning
        the mounting of the motor. I remember reading that he offset the motor
        and shaft slightly to portside a few degrees exactly as shown on the
        plans. Later, he wrote that the offset did help in reverse, but since
        his reversing mechanism was at that time broken and wasn't that
        necessary, he wouldn't do it that way again, but install the
        engine/shaft straight ahead on the centerline.

        I think he used a left-handed prop because he had a weedless one on
        hand the correct diameter, and he wanted a weedless prop. And about
        the belts, don't forget that he used a five "ridges" (six grooves)
        flat "serpentine" flat belt because it can transmit more HP than
        several A or B sized V-belts and requires much less "slack" to go to
        neutral.

        Just my 5 cents worth (inflation you know), but I will go in the
        archives and see if I can find the correct articles. They say that
        memory is the second (or is that the first) thing to go in old age.

        Lewis



        --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, Rob Rohde-Szudy <robrohdeszudy@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Yup, that's exactly why Robb's was splayed opposite. You are correct
        that there would be too much slip to use a wheel for forward. You'd
        need a hydraulic press to get it tight enough and all the parts would
        have to be waaaay too heavy. If you want to do it Atkin's way, run the
        shaft all the way under the motor and mount the motor backwards. The
        trouble is that this makes for a taller installation. You might be
        able to tension sideways though.
        >
        > I plan to do a whole different way. Since I live in the Kingdom of
        Evinrude, 50-year-old outboards are dirt cheap. I'm going to use an
        old 25 horse powerhead adn lower unit. The lower unit mounted on the
        tunnel by bolting the cavitation plate, an intermediate shaft to get
        the power form down low to up high (and run the water pump and
        anything else), and a shock mount for the powerhead. Cogged belts all
        around for low tension, at the expense of some noise.
        >
        > The only trouble is that the lower unit might leak air. The prop
        will want to suck air through any bad seals, and this might ruin this
        whole idea. We'll see. Unless I get a good deal on a Kawasaki in the
        meantime!
        >
        > --Rob
        >
        >
        > Re: Rescue Minor Model
        > Posted by: "p.mathers" p.mathers@... p.mathers
        > Date: Mon Aug 28, 2006 6:32 pm (PDT)
        >
        > I'll ditto that! I'd love to see some pic's. Rob, I think it was one
        > of your early post"s saying
        > that Robb White's RM's prop shaft was splayed opposite to what is on
        > the plans and that he used a left turning prop. I assume that is
        > because there is no gearbox to reverse the motors direction of
        > revolution. Robb used belts for forward, a wheel for reverse, do you
        > think that you could use a wheel for foward and build to plan using
        > a right hand prop or
        > that slippage would be a problem? I'm looking at a 27 hp gas
        > Kawisaki motor new surplus, but a little tall. All the best
        > Patrick -
        >
        >
        > __________________________________________________
        > Do You Yahoo!?
        > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
        > http://mail.yahoo.com
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Rob Rohde-Szudy
        Hey Lewis, Yeah, I m combining his articles with what he told me in private emails. You re right that he felt the splayed shaft probably wasn t worth it, since
        Message 3 of 8 , Aug 30, 2006
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          Hey Lewis,

          Yeah, I'm combining his articles with what he told me in private emails. You're right that he felt the splayed shaft probably wasn't worth it, since the boat handles better than average in reverse anyway. But the LH prop was because industrial engines turn CCW looking at the output end. Marine transmissions reverse this, but Robb's belt transmission doesn't. Unless you turn the engine around, as I mentioned.

          I think you're right that he said he splayed to port just like on the plans. But in one of his emails to me he said something along the lines of "Hey, I'm just happy I could figure out to splay it the other way" when we were talking direction of rotation. I think that if I got stuck going with a LH prop, I'd probably skip the splay in case I had the chance to switch to RH later.

          You're right about the advantages of the grooved V belt, but the tradeoff is they need more tension than a V.

          Best,
          --Rob



          Re: Rescue Minor Power
          Posted by: "Lewis E. Gordon" l_gordon_nica@... l_gordon_nica
          Date: Tue Aug 29, 2006 6:56 pm (PDT)

          I have a different recollection <IIRC> of Robb's remarks concerning
          the mounting of the motor. I remember reading that he offset the motor
          and shaft slightly to portside a few degrees exactly as shown on the
          plans. Later, he wrote that the offset did help in reverse, but since
          his reversing mechanism was at that time broken and wasn't that
          necessary, he wouldn't do it that way again, but install the
          engine/shaft straight ahead on the centerline.

          I think he used a left-handed prop because he had a weedless one on
          hand the correct diameter, and he wanted a weedless prop. And about
          the belts, don't forget that he used a five "ridges" (six grooves)
          flat "serpentine" flat belt because it can transmit more HP than
          several A or B sized V-belts and requires much less "slack" to go to
          neutral.

          Just my 5 cents worth (inflation you know), but I will go in the
          archives and see if I can find the correct articles. They say that
          memory is the second (or is that the first) thing to go in old age.

          Lewis



          ---------------------------------
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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • mrweswhite
          Hello. The engine does lie slightly to port. This results in a little weather helm when running (the tiller must be held an inch or so to starboard to
          Message 4 of 8 , Aug 30, 2006
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            Hello.

            The engine does lie slightly to port. This results in a
            little "weather helm" when running (the tiller must be held an inch
            or so to starboard to compensate). I do think that, if he could do
            it all over again, he would just line everything up straight. I
            don't have much experience with inboard power boats, but this one
            seems to me to be exremely responsive to the rudder. My father
            thought so too, and figured that having the outflow from the
            propellor more or less trapped in that cavity explained it. He did,
            by the way, have a lot of experience to draw upon. The belt does
            need alot of tension. Wes White

            --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, Rob Rohde-Szudy
            <robrohdeszudy@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hey Lewis,
            >
            > Yeah, I'm combining his articles with what he told me in private
            emails. You're right that he felt the splayed shaft probably wasn't
            worth it, since the boat handles better than average in reverse
            anyway. But the LH prop was because industrial engines turn CCW
            looking at the output end. Marine transmissions reverse this, but
            Robb's belt transmission doesn't. Unless you turn the engine around,
            as I mentioned.
            >
            > I think you're right that he said he splayed to port just like on
            the plans. But in one of his emails to me he said something along the
            lines of "Hey, I'm just happy I could figure out to splay it the
            other way" when we were talking direction of rotation. I think that
            if I got stuck going with a LH prop, I'd probably skip the splay in
            case I had the chance to switch to RH later.
            >
            > You're right about the advantages of the grooved V belt, but the
            tradeoff is they need more tension than a V.
            >
            > Best,
            > --Rob
            >
            >
            >
            > Re: Rescue Minor Power
            > Posted by: "Lewis E. Gordon" l_gordon_nica@... l_gordon_nica
            > Date: Tue Aug 29, 2006 6:56 pm (PDT)
            >
            > I have a different recollection <IIRC> of Robb's remarks concerning
            > the mounting of the motor. I remember reading that he offset the
            motor
            > and shaft slightly to portside a few degrees exactly as shown on the
            > plans. Later, he wrote that the offset did help in reverse, but
            since
            > his reversing mechanism was at that time broken and wasn't that
            > necessary, he wouldn't do it that way again, but install the
            > engine/shaft straight ahead on the centerline.
            >
            > I think he used a left-handed prop because he had a weedless one on
            > hand the correct diameter, and he wanted a weedless prop. And about
            > the belts, don't forget that he used a five "ridges" (six grooves)
            > flat "serpentine" flat belt because it can transmit more HP than
            > several A or B sized V-belts and requires much less "slack" to go to
            > neutral.
            >
            > Just my 5 cents worth (inflation you know), but I will go in the
            > archives and see if I can find the correct articles. They say that
            > memory is the second (or is that the first) thing to go in old age.
            >
            > Lewis
            >
            >
            >
            > ---------------------------------
            > All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things
            done faster.
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Ron Butterfield
            ... In the March/April 2006 issue of Wooden Boat, in the article he wrote on his adaptation of the Rescue Minor, Rob White says regarding the offset
            Message 5 of 8 , Aug 31, 2006
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              On 8/30/06, mrweswhite <mrweswhite@...> wrote:
              > I do think that, if he could do
              > it all over again, he would just line everything up straight.

              In the March/April 2006 issue of Wooden Boat, in the article he wrote
              on his adaptation of the Rescue Minor, Rob White says regarding the
              offset motor/driveshaft:

              "... the boat runs with a slight "weather" helm to starbord. I ws
              going to fix that with a little trim tab on the rudder, but I
              discovered that if you turn loose the tiller with the throttle wide
              open, the boat will begin to circle and soon tighten the cirle unitl
              it is slowly pivoting around and around ... A man overboard could
              easily get back in."

              So, after using the boat extensively, it looks like he would build the
              offset if he had to do it all over again.

              --
              Regards,
              RonB
            • Rob Rohde-Szudy
              Good point, Ron. I forgot about that bit. --Rob In the March/April 2006 issue of Wooden Boat, in the article he wrote on his adaptation of the Rescue Minor,
              Message 6 of 8 , Sep 1, 2006
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                Good point, Ron. I forgot about that bit. --Rob


                In the March/April 2006 issue of Wooden Boat, in the article he wrote
                on his adaptation of the Rescue Minor, Rob White says regarding the
                offset motor/driveshaft:

                "... the boat runs with a slight "weather" helm to starbord. I ws
                going to fix that with a little trim tab on the rudder, but I
                discovered that if you turn loose the tiller with the throttle wide
                open, the boat will begin to circle and soon tighten the cirle unitl
                it is slowly pivoting around and around ... A man overboard could
                easily get back in."

                So, after using the boat extensively, it looks like he would build the



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                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • mrweswhite
                Maybe. My impression was that he thought the offset wasn t needed, but that the effects weren t aggravating or detrimental, and therefore not worth going to a
                Message 7 of 8 , Sep 2, 2006
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                  Maybe. My impression was that he thought the offset wasn't needed,
                  but that the effects weren't aggravating or detrimental, and
                  therefore not worth going to a lot of trouble over. It was not a big
                  deal to him, so he may well have changed his mind about it several
                  times. I don't think that anyone who builds one of these boats would
                  be dissappointed either way. If I remember correctly, the offset is
                  mainly intended to cancel out any stern walking while backing down.
                  Since he had decided that he didn't really need a reverse for his use
                  of the boat, I don't think that he would have seen any reason to
                  build it in. Wes
                  --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Ron Butterfield"
                  <ron.butterfield@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > On 8/30/06, mrweswhite <mrweswhite@...> wrote:
                  > > I do think that, if he could do
                  > > it all over again, he would just line everything up straight.
                  >
                  > In the March/April 2006 issue of Wooden Boat, in the article he
                  wrote
                  > on his adaptation of the Rescue Minor, Rob White says regarding the
                  > offset motor/driveshaft:
                  >
                  > "... the boat runs with a slight "weather" helm to starbord. I ws
                  > going to fix that with a little trim tab on the rudder, but I
                  > discovered that if you turn loose the tiller with the throttle wide
                  > open, the boat will begin to circle and soon tighten the cirle unitl
                  > it is slowly pivoting around and around ... A man overboard could
                  > easily get back in."
                  >
                  > So, after using the boat extensively, it looks like he would build
                  the
                  > offset if he had to do it all over again.
                  >
                  > --
                  > Regards,
                  > RonB
                  >
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