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Re: Rescue Minor Power

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  • Rob Rohde-Szudy
    Yup, that s exactly why Robb s was splayed opposite. You are correct that there would be too much slip to use a wheel for forward. You d need a hydraulic press
    Message 1 of 8 , Aug 29, 2006
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      Yup, that's exactly why Robb's was splayed opposite. You are correct that there would be too much slip to use a wheel for forward. You'd need a hydraulic press to get it tight enough and all the parts would have to be waaaay too heavy. If you want to do it Atkin's way, run the shaft all the way under the motor and mount the motor backwards. The trouble is that this makes for a taller installation. You might be able to tension sideways though.

      I plan to do a whole different way. Since I live in the Kingdom of Evinrude, 50-year-old outboards are dirt cheap. I'm going to use an old 25 horse powerhead adn lower unit. The lower unit mounted on the tunnel by bolting the cavitation plate, an intermediate shaft to get the power form down low to up high (and run the water pump and anything else), and a shock mount for the powerhead. Cogged belts all around for low tension, at the expense of some noise.

      The only trouble is that the lower unit might leak air. The prop will want to suck air through any bad seals, and this might ruin this whole idea. We'll see. Unless I get a good deal on a Kawasaki in the meantime!

      --Rob


      Re: Rescue Minor Model
      Posted by: "p.mathers" p.mathers@... p.mathers
      Date: Mon Aug 28, 2006 6:32 pm (PDT)

      I'll ditto that! I'd love to see some pic's. Rob, I think it was one
      of your early post"s saying
      that Robb White's RM's prop shaft was splayed opposite to what is on
      the plans and that he used a left turning prop. I assume that is
      because there is no gearbox to reverse the motors direction of
      revolution. Robb used belts for forward, a wheel for reverse, do you
      think that you could use a wheel for foward and build to plan using
      a right hand prop or
      that slippage would be a problem? I'm looking at a 27 hp gas
      Kawisaki motor new surplus, but a little tall. All the best
      Patrick -


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    • p.mathers
      -Rob; WWW.SURPLUSCENTER.COM has 14 of em. All the best Patrick-- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, Rob Rohde-Szudy ... correct that there would be too
      Message 2 of 8 , Aug 29, 2006
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        -Rob; WWW.SURPLUSCENTER.COM has 14 of em. All the best
        Patrick-- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, Rob Rohde-Szudy
        <robrohdeszudy@...> wrote:
        >
        > Yup, that's exactly why Robb's was splayed opposite. You are
        correct that there would be too much slip to use a wheel for
        forward. You'd need a hydraulic press to get it tight enough and all
        the parts would have to be waaaay too heavy. If you want to do it
        Atkin's way, run the shaft all the way under the motor and mount the
        motor backwards. The trouble is that this makes for a taller
        installation. You might be able to tension sideways though.
        >
        > I plan to do a whole different way. Since I live in the Kingdom
        of Evinrude, 50-year-old outboards are dirt cheap. I'm going to use
        an old 25 horse powerhead adn lower unit. The lower unit mounted on
        the tunnel by bolting the cavitation plate, an intermediate shaft to
        get the power form down low to up high (and run the water pump and
        anything else), and a shock mount for the powerhead. Cogged belts
        all around for low tension, at the expense of some noise.
        >
        > The only trouble is that the lower unit might leak air. The prop
        will want to suck air through any bad seals, and this might ruin
        this whole idea. We'll see. Unless I get a good deal on a Kawasaki
        in the meantime!
        >
        > --Rob
        >
        >
        > Re: Rescue Minor Model
        > Posted by: "p.mathers" p.mathers@... p.mathers
        > Date: Mon Aug 28, 2006 6:32 pm (PDT)
        >
        > I'll ditto that! I'd love to see some pic's. Rob, I think it was
        one
        > of your early post"s saying
        > that Robb White's RM's prop shaft was splayed opposite to what is
        on
        > the plans and that he used a left turning prop. I assume that is
        > because there is no gearbox to reverse the motors direction of
        > revolution. Robb used belts for forward, a wheel for reverse, do
        you
        > think that you could use a wheel for foward and build to plan
        using
        > a right hand prop or
        > that slippage would be a problem? I'm looking at a 27 hp gas
        > Kawisaki motor new surplus, but a little tall. All the best
        > Patrick -
        >
        >
        > __________________________________________________
        > Do You Yahoo!?
        > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
        > http://mail.yahoo.com
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Lewis E. Gordon
        I have a different recollection of Robb s remarks concerning the mounting of the motor. I remember reading that he offset the motor and shaft slightly
        Message 3 of 8 , Aug 29, 2006
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          I have a different recollection <IIRC> of Robb's remarks concerning
          the mounting of the motor. I remember reading that he offset the motor
          and shaft slightly to portside a few degrees exactly as shown on the
          plans. Later, he wrote that the offset did help in reverse, but since
          his reversing mechanism was at that time broken and wasn't that
          necessary, he wouldn't do it that way again, but install the
          engine/shaft straight ahead on the centerline.

          I think he used a left-handed prop because he had a weedless one on
          hand the correct diameter, and he wanted a weedless prop. And about
          the belts, don't forget that he used a five "ridges" (six grooves)
          flat "serpentine" flat belt because it can transmit more HP than
          several A or B sized V-belts and requires much less "slack" to go to
          neutral.

          Just my 5 cents worth (inflation you know), but I will go in the
          archives and see if I can find the correct articles. They say that
          memory is the second (or is that the first) thing to go in old age.

          Lewis



          --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, Rob Rohde-Szudy <robrohdeszudy@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Yup, that's exactly why Robb's was splayed opposite. You are correct
          that there would be too much slip to use a wheel for forward. You'd
          need a hydraulic press to get it tight enough and all the parts would
          have to be waaaay too heavy. If you want to do it Atkin's way, run the
          shaft all the way under the motor and mount the motor backwards. The
          trouble is that this makes for a taller installation. You might be
          able to tension sideways though.
          >
          > I plan to do a whole different way. Since I live in the Kingdom of
          Evinrude, 50-year-old outboards are dirt cheap. I'm going to use an
          old 25 horse powerhead adn lower unit. The lower unit mounted on the
          tunnel by bolting the cavitation plate, an intermediate shaft to get
          the power form down low to up high (and run the water pump and
          anything else), and a shock mount for the powerhead. Cogged belts all
          around for low tension, at the expense of some noise.
          >
          > The only trouble is that the lower unit might leak air. The prop
          will want to suck air through any bad seals, and this might ruin this
          whole idea. We'll see. Unless I get a good deal on a Kawasaki in the
          meantime!
          >
          > --Rob
          >
          >
          > Re: Rescue Minor Model
          > Posted by: "p.mathers" p.mathers@... p.mathers
          > Date: Mon Aug 28, 2006 6:32 pm (PDT)
          >
          > I'll ditto that! I'd love to see some pic's. Rob, I think it was one
          > of your early post"s saying
          > that Robb White's RM's prop shaft was splayed opposite to what is on
          > the plans and that he used a left turning prop. I assume that is
          > because there is no gearbox to reverse the motors direction of
          > revolution. Robb used belts for forward, a wheel for reverse, do you
          > think that you could use a wheel for foward and build to plan using
          > a right hand prop or
          > that slippage would be a problem? I'm looking at a 27 hp gas
          > Kawisaki motor new surplus, but a little tall. All the best
          > Patrick -
          >
          >
          > __________________________________________________
          > Do You Yahoo!?
          > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
          > http://mail.yahoo.com
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • Rob Rohde-Szudy
          Hey Lewis, Yeah, I m combining his articles with what he told me in private emails. You re right that he felt the splayed shaft probably wasn t worth it, since
          Message 4 of 8 , Aug 30, 2006
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            Hey Lewis,

            Yeah, I'm combining his articles with what he told me in private emails. You're right that he felt the splayed shaft probably wasn't worth it, since the boat handles better than average in reverse anyway. But the LH prop was because industrial engines turn CCW looking at the output end. Marine transmissions reverse this, but Robb's belt transmission doesn't. Unless you turn the engine around, as I mentioned.

            I think you're right that he said he splayed to port just like on the plans. But in one of his emails to me he said something along the lines of "Hey, I'm just happy I could figure out to splay it the other way" when we were talking direction of rotation. I think that if I got stuck going with a LH prop, I'd probably skip the splay in case I had the chance to switch to RH later.

            You're right about the advantages of the grooved V belt, but the tradeoff is they need more tension than a V.

            Best,
            --Rob



            Re: Rescue Minor Power
            Posted by: "Lewis E. Gordon" l_gordon_nica@... l_gordon_nica
            Date: Tue Aug 29, 2006 6:56 pm (PDT)

            I have a different recollection <IIRC> of Robb's remarks concerning
            the mounting of the motor. I remember reading that he offset the motor
            and shaft slightly to portside a few degrees exactly as shown on the
            plans. Later, he wrote that the offset did help in reverse, but since
            his reversing mechanism was at that time broken and wasn't that
            necessary, he wouldn't do it that way again, but install the
            engine/shaft straight ahead on the centerline.

            I think he used a left-handed prop because he had a weedless one on
            hand the correct diameter, and he wanted a weedless prop. And about
            the belts, don't forget that he used a five "ridges" (six grooves)
            flat "serpentine" flat belt because it can transmit more HP than
            several A or B sized V-belts and requires much less "slack" to go to
            neutral.

            Just my 5 cents worth (inflation you know), but I will go in the
            archives and see if I can find the correct articles. They say that
            memory is the second (or is that the first) thing to go in old age.

            Lewis



            ---------------------------------
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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • mrweswhite
            Hello. The engine does lie slightly to port. This results in a little weather helm when running (the tiller must be held an inch or so to starboard to
            Message 5 of 8 , Aug 30, 2006
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              Hello.

              The engine does lie slightly to port. This results in a
              little "weather helm" when running (the tiller must be held an inch
              or so to starboard to compensate). I do think that, if he could do
              it all over again, he would just line everything up straight. I
              don't have much experience with inboard power boats, but this one
              seems to me to be exremely responsive to the rudder. My father
              thought so too, and figured that having the outflow from the
              propellor more or less trapped in that cavity explained it. He did,
              by the way, have a lot of experience to draw upon. The belt does
              need alot of tension. Wes White

              --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, Rob Rohde-Szudy
              <robrohdeszudy@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hey Lewis,
              >
              > Yeah, I'm combining his articles with what he told me in private
              emails. You're right that he felt the splayed shaft probably wasn't
              worth it, since the boat handles better than average in reverse
              anyway. But the LH prop was because industrial engines turn CCW
              looking at the output end. Marine transmissions reverse this, but
              Robb's belt transmission doesn't. Unless you turn the engine around,
              as I mentioned.
              >
              > I think you're right that he said he splayed to port just like on
              the plans. But in one of his emails to me he said something along the
              lines of "Hey, I'm just happy I could figure out to splay it the
              other way" when we were talking direction of rotation. I think that
              if I got stuck going with a LH prop, I'd probably skip the splay in
              case I had the chance to switch to RH later.
              >
              > You're right about the advantages of the grooved V belt, but the
              tradeoff is they need more tension than a V.
              >
              > Best,
              > --Rob
              >
              >
              >
              > Re: Rescue Minor Power
              > Posted by: "Lewis E. Gordon" l_gordon_nica@... l_gordon_nica
              > Date: Tue Aug 29, 2006 6:56 pm (PDT)
              >
              > I have a different recollection <IIRC> of Robb's remarks concerning
              > the mounting of the motor. I remember reading that he offset the
              motor
              > and shaft slightly to portside a few degrees exactly as shown on the
              > plans. Later, he wrote that the offset did help in reverse, but
              since
              > his reversing mechanism was at that time broken and wasn't that
              > necessary, he wouldn't do it that way again, but install the
              > engine/shaft straight ahead on the centerline.
              >
              > I think he used a left-handed prop because he had a weedless one on
              > hand the correct diameter, and he wanted a weedless prop. And about
              > the belts, don't forget that he used a five "ridges" (six grooves)
              > flat "serpentine" flat belt because it can transmit more HP than
              > several A or B sized V-belts and requires much less "slack" to go to
              > neutral.
              >
              > Just my 5 cents worth (inflation you know), but I will go in the
              > archives and see if I can find the correct articles. They say that
              > memory is the second (or is that the first) thing to go in old age.
              >
              > Lewis
              >
              >
              >
              > ---------------------------------
              > All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things
              done faster.
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • Ron Butterfield
              ... In the March/April 2006 issue of Wooden Boat, in the article he wrote on his adaptation of the Rescue Minor, Rob White says regarding the offset
              Message 6 of 8 , Aug 31, 2006
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                On 8/30/06, mrweswhite <mrweswhite@...> wrote:
                > I do think that, if he could do
                > it all over again, he would just line everything up straight.

                In the March/April 2006 issue of Wooden Boat, in the article he wrote
                on his adaptation of the Rescue Minor, Rob White says regarding the
                offset motor/driveshaft:

                "... the boat runs with a slight "weather" helm to starbord. I ws
                going to fix that with a little trim tab on the rudder, but I
                discovered that if you turn loose the tiller with the throttle wide
                open, the boat will begin to circle and soon tighten the cirle unitl
                it is slowly pivoting around and around ... A man overboard could
                easily get back in."

                So, after using the boat extensively, it looks like he would build the
                offset if he had to do it all over again.

                --
                Regards,
                RonB
              • Rob Rohde-Szudy
                Good point, Ron. I forgot about that bit. --Rob In the March/April 2006 issue of Wooden Boat, in the article he wrote on his adaptation of the Rescue Minor,
                Message 7 of 8 , Sep 1, 2006
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                  Good point, Ron. I forgot about that bit. --Rob


                  In the March/April 2006 issue of Wooden Boat, in the article he wrote
                  on his adaptation of the Rescue Minor, Rob White says regarding the
                  offset motor/driveshaft:

                  "... the boat runs with a slight "weather" helm to starbord. I ws
                  going to fix that with a little trim tab on the rudder, but I
                  discovered that if you turn loose the tiller with the throttle wide
                  open, the boat will begin to circle and soon tighten the cirle unitl
                  it is slowly pivoting around and around ... A man overboard could
                  easily get back in."

                  So, after using the boat extensively, it looks like he would build the



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                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • mrweswhite
                  Maybe. My impression was that he thought the offset wasn t needed, but that the effects weren t aggravating or detrimental, and therefore not worth going to a
                  Message 8 of 8 , Sep 2, 2006
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                    Maybe. My impression was that he thought the offset wasn't needed,
                    but that the effects weren't aggravating or detrimental, and
                    therefore not worth going to a lot of trouble over. It was not a big
                    deal to him, so he may well have changed his mind about it several
                    times. I don't think that anyone who builds one of these boats would
                    be dissappointed either way. If I remember correctly, the offset is
                    mainly intended to cancel out any stern walking while backing down.
                    Since he had decided that he didn't really need a reverse for his use
                    of the boat, I don't think that he would have seen any reason to
                    build it in. Wes
                    --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Ron Butterfield"
                    <ron.butterfield@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > On 8/30/06, mrweswhite <mrweswhite@...> wrote:
                    > > I do think that, if he could do
                    > > it all over again, he would just line everything up straight.
                    >
                    > In the March/April 2006 issue of Wooden Boat, in the article he
                    wrote
                    > on his adaptation of the Rescue Minor, Rob White says regarding the
                    > offset motor/driveshaft:
                    >
                    > "... the boat runs with a slight "weather" helm to starbord. I ws
                    > going to fix that with a little trim tab on the rudder, but I
                    > discovered that if you turn loose the tiller with the throttle wide
                    > open, the boat will begin to circle and soon tighten the cirle unitl
                    > it is slowly pivoting around and around ... A man overboard could
                    > easily get back in."
                    >
                    > So, after using the boat extensively, it looks like he would build
                    the
                    > offset if he had to do it all over again.
                    >
                    > --
                    > Regards,
                    > RonB
                    >
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