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Re: Rescue Minor Model

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  • Rob Rohde-Szudy
    Interesting!!! So whaddayagot, John? (Thanks in advance!) --Rob Re: Rescue Minor Posted by: Ronald Fossum artemis@pcez.com angsiglar Date: Fri Aug 25, 2006
    Message 1 of 17 , Aug 28, 2006
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      Interesting!!! So whaddayagot, John? (Thanks in advance!)
      --Rob


      Re: Rescue Minor
      Posted by: "Ronald Fossum" artemis@... angsiglar
      Date: Fri Aug 25, 2006 1:00 pm (PDT)

      I don't know if John Kohnen has mentioned this or not, but a earlier
      member of the group (hasn't been around in a while tho) by the name of
      Rich Ledergerber built a 1/4 scale model (3" = 1') of Rescue Minor,
      including scale materials. Had to batten seam the area in the bow as well as
      "play with" the tunnel area. I believe John has a fair number of pics
      that Rich took of this model.

      Ron Fossum



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    • p.mathers
      I ll ditto that! I d love to see some pic s. Rob, I think it was one of your early post s saying that Robb White s RM s prop shaft was splayed opposite to what
      Message 2 of 17 , Aug 28, 2006
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        I'll ditto that! I'd love to see some pic's. Rob, I think it was one
        of your early post"s saying
        that Robb White's RM's prop shaft was splayed opposite to what is on
        the plans and that he used a left turning prop. I assume that is
        because there is no gearbox to reverse the motors direction of
        revolution. Robb used belts for forward, a wheel for reverse, do you
        think that you could use a wheel for foward and build to plan using
        a right hand prop or
        that slippage would be a problem? I'm looking at a 27 hp gas
        Kawisaki motor new surplus, but a little tall. All the best
        Patrick -
        -- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, Rob Rohde-Szudy
        <robrohdeszudy@...> wrote:
        >
        > Interesting!!! So whaddayagot, John? (Thanks in advance!)
        > --Rob
        >
        >
        > Re: Rescue Minor
        > Posted by: "Ronald Fossum" artemis@... angsiglar
        > Date: Fri Aug 25, 2006 1:00 pm (PDT)
        >
        > I don't know if John Kohnen has mentioned this or not, but a
        earlier
        > member of the group (hasn't been around in a while tho) by the
        name of
        > Rich Ledergerber built a 1/4 scale model (3" = 1') of Rescue
        Minor,
        > including scale materials. Had to batten seam the area in the bow
        as well as
        > "play with" the tunnel area. I believe John has a fair number of
        pics
        > that Rich took of this model.
        >
        > Ron Fossum
        >
        >
        >
        > ---------------------------------
        > Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and
        30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Ron Carter
        do you ... Robb indicated that there was some smoke involved in an emergency back down. A friction wheel is questionable for continuous use and full power in
        Message 3 of 17 , Aug 29, 2006
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          do you
          > think that you could use a wheel for foward and build to plan using
          > a right hand prop or
          > that slippage would be a problem?

          Robb indicated that there was some smoke involved in an emergency back
          down. A friction wheel is questionable for continuous use and full
          power in such an application. I think the money would be well spent
          for a left hand prop. If one wst to try it I would go for a fully
          pneumatic wheel that could be inflated only enough to get a relatively
          long contace surface on the mating part. That will cause flexing in
          the side wall and heat buildup which is wasted energy. My $.02
        • John Kohnen
          For some perverse reason I keep misplacing Rich s disc. :o( But I stumbled upon it today while looking for something else. :o) When I went looking for it the
          Message 4 of 17 , Aug 29, 2006
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            For some perverse reason I keep misplacing Rich's disc. :o( But I stumbled
            upon it today while looking for something else. :o) When I went looking
            for it the other day it was nowhere to be found. <g> It's sitting right
            beside me now and I'll get some of the photos online soon -- maybe even
            tonite. I've been awful busy getting Pickle cleaned up for Port Townsend
            and getting the stuff together for the Atkin & Co. booth...

            On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 07:19:05 -0700, Rob wrote:

            > Interesting!!! So whaddayagot, John? (Thanks in advance!)

            --
            John <jkohnen@...>
            Love is the delightful interval between meeting a beautiful girl
            and discovering she looks like a haddock. <John Barrymore>
          • Ronald Fossum
            If you loose it again John, I have the one you sent me at hand. Probably not the best way to go as it would be a copy of the copy you sent me (third
            Message 5 of 17 , Aug 29, 2006
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              If you loose it again John, I have the one you sent me at hand. Probably not
              the best way to go as it would be a copy of the copy you sent me (third
              generation?), but better than nothing!.

              Ron

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "John Kohnen" <jkohnen@...>
              To: <AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 6:39 PM
              Subject: Re: [AtkinBoats] Re: Rescue Minor Model


              > For some perverse reason I keep misplacing Rich's disc. :o( But I stumbled
              > upon it today while looking for something else. :o) When I went looking
              > for it the other day it was nowhere to be found. <g> It's sitting right
              > beside me now and I'll get some of the photos online soon -- maybe even
              > tonite. I've been awful busy getting Pickle cleaned up for Port Townsend
              > and getting the stuff together for the Atkin & Co. booth...
              >
              > On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 07:19:05 -0700, Rob wrote:
              >
              >> Interesting!!! So whaddayagot, John? (Thanks in advance!)
              >
              > --
              > John <jkohnen@...>
              > Love is the delightful interval between meeting a beautiful girl
              > and discovering she looks like a haddock. <John Barrymore>
              >
              >
              > No flaming, cursing, politics, religion or public mopery. Please be
              > polite.
              >
              > If you set out to build an Atkin boat, please do not modify the plans. If
              > you stray from the plans you do so at your own risk and Atkin & Co. will
              > take no responsibility for the performance of the resulting boat.
              >
              > The current Atkin boat plans catalog is online at
              > <http://www.atkinboatplans.com/>
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • John Kohnen
              Thanks Ron, but I ll try to get some of the photos online before the disc disappears again. Too bad I didn t send you a copy of the CD I was looking for when I
              Message 6 of 17 , Aug 29, 2006
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                Thanks Ron, but I'll try to get some of the photos online before the disc
                disappears again. Too bad I didn't send you a copy of the CD I was looking
                for when I found the one Rich sent me! <g>

                I missed you at the St. Helens steamboat meet, where were you? Looks like
                that steam canoe, Feeble II, is the one to beat...

                http://www.pcez.com/~artemis/NWSSBfee.htm

                On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 19:34:07 -0700, Ron Fossum wrote:

                > If you loose it again John, I have the one you sent me at hand. Probably
                > not
                > the best way to go as it would be a copy of the copy you sent me (third
                > generation?), but better than nothing!.

                --
                John <jkohnen@...>
                If perfection were needed for friendship the world would be a
                wilderness for our love. <Thomas Jefferson>
              • Ronald Fossum
                I was there. Yeah, Feeble II can go , but you d need more than the Columbia River to turn her around in when she s moving. Ron ... From: John Kohnen
                Message 7 of 17 , Aug 29, 2006
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                  I was there. Yeah, Feeble II can "go", but you'd need more than the Columbia
                  River to turn her around in when she's moving.

                  Ron
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "John Kohnen" <jkohnen@...>
                  To: <AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 8:35 PM
                  Subject: Re: [AtkinBoats] Re: Rescue Minor Model


                  > Thanks Ron, but I'll try to get some of the photos online before the disc
                  > disappears again. Too bad I didn't send you a copy of the CD I was looking
                  > for when I found the one Rich sent me! <g>
                  >
                  > I missed you at the St. Helens steamboat meet, where were you? Looks like
                  > that steam canoe, Feeble II, is the one to beat...
                  >
                  > http://www.pcez.com/~artemis/NWSSBfee.htm
                  >
                  > On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 19:34:07 -0700, Ron Fossum wrote:
                  >
                  >> If you loose it again John, I have the one you sent me at hand. Probably
                  >> not
                  >> the best way to go as it would be a copy of the copy you sent me (third
                  >> generation?), but better than nothing!.
                  >
                  > --
                  > John <jkohnen@...>
                  > If perfection were needed for friendship the world would be a
                  > wilderness for our love. <Thomas Jefferson>
                  >
                  >
                  > No flaming, cursing, politics, religion or public mopery. Please be
                  > polite.
                  >
                  > If you set out to build an Atkin boat, please do not modify the plans. If
                  > you stray from the plans you do so at your own risk and Atkin & Co. will
                  > take no responsibility for the performance of the resulting boat.
                  >
                  > The current Atkin boat plans catalog is online at
                  > <http://www.atkinboatplans.com/>
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • John Kohnen
                  Here are some of the photos Rich Ledergerber sent me: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jkohnen/sets/72157594259565340/ He decided to go with frames and lighter
                  Message 8 of 17 , Aug 30, 2006
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                    Here are some of the photos Rich Ledergerber sent me:

                    http://www.flickr.com/photos/jkohnen/sets/72157594259565340/

                    He decided to go with frames and lighter plywood rather than the 3/4" ply
                    and just a few bulkheads and floors called for in the plans. I wonder if
                    Rich ever started building the real thing. Are you out there Rich?

                    --
                    John <jkohnen@...>
                    Heaven, as conventionally conceived, is a place so inane, so
                    dull, so useless, so miserable, that nobody has ever ventured to
                    describe a whole day in heaven, though plenty of people have
                    described a day at the seashore. <G. B. Shaw>
                  • Lewis E. Gordon
                    What an impressive design (and model). I got a headache from studying all those changing, intersecting angles on all 21 photos. I don t know Rich, but from the
                    Message 9 of 17 , Aug 30, 2006
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                      What an impressive design (and model). I got a headache from studying
                      all those changing, intersecting angles on all 21 photos. I don't know
                      Rich, but from the attention to detail I'll bet that he stayed very
                      close to the plan offsets; and I couldn't see any really ugly bulges
                      from forcing the plywood into shape.

                      Lewis

                      --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jkohnen@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Here are some of the photos Rich Ledergerber sent me:
                      >
                      > http://www.flickr.com/photos/jkohnen/sets/72157594259565340/
                      >
                      > He decided to go with frames and lighter plywood rather than the
                      3/4" ply
                      > and just a few bulkheads and floors called for in the plans. I
                      wonder if
                      > Rich ever started building the real thing. Are you out there Rich?
                      >
                      > --
                      > John <jkohnen@...>
                      > Heaven, as conventionally conceived, is a place so inane, so
                      > dull, so useless, so miserable, that nobody has ever ventured to
                      > describe a whole day in heaven, though plenty of people have
                      > described a day at the seashore. <G. B. Shaw>
                      >
                    • John Kohnen
                      Rich punted when he had difficulty getting a plywood sheet wrap around the forward bottom and twist to meet the stem -- he switched to batten seam planking in
                      Message 10 of 17 , Aug 31, 2006
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                        Rich punted when he had difficulty getting a plywood sheet wrap around the
                        forward bottom and twist to meet the stem -- he switched to batten seam
                        planking in that area. In the Rescue Minor article Wm. Atkin said that the
                        garboard strake might have to be "molded in place," or words to that
                        effect.

                        On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 19:45:50 -0700, Lewis G wrote:

                        > What an impressive design (and model). I got a headache from studying
                        > all those changing, intersecting angles on all 21 photos. I don't know
                        > Rich, but from the attention to detail I'll bet that he stayed very
                        > close to the plan offsets; and I couldn't see any really ugly bulges
                        > from forcing the plywood into shape.

                        --
                        John <jkohnen@...>
                        I have no truck with lettuce, cabbage, and similar chlorophyll.
                        Any dietician will tell you that a running foot of apple strudel
                        contains four times the vitamins of a bushel of beans. <S. J.
                        Perelman>
                      • windmill4048
                        Thanks for posting the model photos. In comparing them to the plans it looks like the model does not capture the tunnel shape well at all. The plans show an
                        Message 11 of 17 , Aug 31, 2006
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                          Thanks for posting the model photos.

                          In comparing them to the plans it looks like the model does not
                          capture the tunnel shape well at all. The plans show an arc in the
                          top of the tunnel running from the forward end to the aft end. I
                          don't see that present in the model pictures. It may just be my
                          poor eyesight. Was that one of the simplifying moves that had to be
                          made to make the construction work?

                          This shape is important, suspect, since it would tend to add a bit
                          of fluid dynamic lift to the flow of the water running under the
                          boat. I keep seeing ol' Bernoulli hanging around there.

                          --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jkohnen@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Here are some of the photos Rich Ledergerber sent me:
                          >
                          > http://www.flickr.com/photos/jkohnen/sets/72157594259565340/
                          >
                          > He decided to go with frames and lighter plywood rather than the
                          3/4" ply
                          > and just a few bulkheads and floors called for in the plans. I
                          wonder if
                          > Rich ever started building the real thing. Are you out there Rich?
                          >
                          > --
                          > John <jkohnen@...>
                          > Heaven, as conventionally conceived, is a place so inane, so
                          > dull, so useless, so miserable, that nobody has ever ventured to
                          > describe a whole day in heaven, though plenty of people have
                          > described a day at the seashore. <G. B. Shaw>
                          >
                        • Rob Rohde-Szudy
                          Wow, now THAT is a model! Thanks John. --Rob ... Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          Message 12 of 17 , Aug 31, 2006
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                            Wow, now THAT is a model! Thanks John.
                            --Rob


                            ---------------------------------
                            Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • John Kohnen
                            The plans show the top of the reverse V going aft pretty straight from the sternpost, look at the body plan on the lines to get a better idea. What might look
                            Message 13 of 17 , Aug 31, 2006
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                              The plans show the top of the reverse V going aft pretty straight from the
                              sternpost, look at the body plan on the lines to get a better idea. What
                              might look like a downward curve on the profile is actually the top of the
                              rudder. I think Rich got the shape right in his model.

                              On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 06:43:17 -0700, windmill4048 wrote:

                              > ...
                              > In comparing them to the plans it looks like the model does not
                              > capture the tunnel shape well at all. The plans show an arc in the
                              > top of the tunnel running from the forward end to the aft end. I
                              > don't see that present in the model pictures. It may just be my
                              > poor eyesight. Was that one of the simplifying moves that had to be
                              > made to make the construction work?
                              >
                              > This shape is important, suspect, since it would tend to add a bit
                              > of fluid dynamic lift to the flow of the water running under the
                              > boat. I keep seeing ol' Bernoulli hanging around there.

                              --
                              John <jkohnen@...>
                              Eels are said to kelter in the water when they wamble.
                            • Hugo Tyson
                              Yes I think the model looks pretty spot on also after just having a look at the RM plans. John Kohnen wrote: The plans show the top
                              Message 14 of 17 , Aug 31, 2006
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                                Yes I think the model looks pretty spot on also after just having a look at the RM plans.

                                John Kohnen <jkohnen@...> wrote: The plans show the top of the reverse V going aft pretty straight from the
                                sternpost, look at the body plan on the lines to get a better idea. What
                                might look like a downward curve on the profile is actually the top of the
                                rudder. I think Rich got the shape right in his model.

                                On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 06:43:17 -0700, windmill4048 wrote:

                                > ...
                                > In comparing them to the plans it looks like the model does not
                                > capture the tunnel shape well at all. The plans show an arc in the
                                > top of the tunnel running from the forward end to the aft end. I
                                > don't see that present in the model pictures. It may just be my
                                > poor eyesight. Was that one of the simplifying moves that had to be
                                > made to make the construction work?
                                >
                                > This shape is important, suspect, since it would tend to add a bit
                                > of fluid dynamic lift to the flow of the water running under the
                                > boat. I keep seeing ol' Bernoulli hanging around there.

                                --
                                John
                                Eels are said to kelter in the water when they wamble.


                                No flaming, cursing, politics, religion or public mopery. Please be polite.

                                If you set out to build an Atkin boat, please do not modify the plans. If you stray from the plans you do so at your own risk and Atkin & Co. will take no responsibility for the performance of the resulting boat.

                                The current Atkin boat plans catalog is online at



                                Yahoo! Groups Links










                                ---------------------------------
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                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • windmill4048
                                Ok, please help me understand what I am looking at in the plans. In both the framing and line drawing plans there is an arched line shown running from the
                                Message 15 of 17 , Sep 2, 2006
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                                  Ok, please help me understand what I am looking at in the plans.

                                  In both the framing and line drawing plans there is an arched line
                                  shown running from the transom to just foreward of sta. 9. In the
                                  framing plans this is shown as a solid piece of wood from the middle
                                  of sta. 10-11 to the transom. That piece of wood is shown as the
                                  top of the tunnel and over the rudder and prop.

                                  What am I looking at?

                                  --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, Hugo Tyson <hhetyson@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Yes I think the model looks pretty spot on also after just having
                                  a look at the RM plans.
                                  >
                                  > John Kohnen <jkohnen@...> wrote: The plans show the top of the
                                  reverse V going aft pretty straight from the
                                  > sternpost, look at the body plan on the lines to get a better
                                  idea. What
                                  > might look like a downward curve on the profile is actually the
                                  top of the
                                  > rudder. I think Rich got the shape right in his model.
                                  >
                                  > On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 06:43:17 -0700, windmill4048 wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > ...
                                  > > In comparing them to the plans it looks like the model does not
                                  > > capture the tunnel shape well at all. The plans show an arc in
                                  the
                                  > > top of the tunnel running from the forward end to the aft end. I
                                  > > don't see that present in the model pictures. It may just be my
                                  > > poor eyesight. Was that one of the simplifying moves that had to
                                  be
                                  > > made to make the construction work?
                                  > >
                                  > > This shape is important, suspect, since it would tend to add a
                                  bit
                                  > > of fluid dynamic lift to the flow of the water running under the
                                  > > boat. I keep seeing ol' Bernoulli hanging around there.
                                  >
                                  > --
                                  > John
                                  > Eels are said to kelter in the water when they wamble.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > No flaming, cursing, politics, religion or public mopery. Please
                                  be polite.
                                  >
                                  > If you set out to build an Atkin boat, please do not modify the
                                  plans. If you stray from the plans you do so at your own risk and
                                  Atkin & Co. will take no responsibility for the performance of the
                                  resulting boat.
                                  >
                                  > The current Atkin boat plans catalog is online at
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ---------------------------------
                                  > On Yahoo!7
                                  > Fuel Price Watch - Find and map the cheapest petrol prices in
                                  Australia
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                • Lewis E. Gordon
                                  Sigh!! I sure wish I had a set of plans in front of me so that I could join in this discussion. Oh what the heck, I m going to stick my oar in the water
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Sep 2, 2006
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                                    Sigh!! I sure wish I had a set of plans in front of me so that I
                                    could join in this discussion. Oh what the heck, I'm going to stick my
                                    oar in the water anyway.

                                    I think that you are basically correct although the downward curve of
                                    the top of the tunnel aft seems to be very slight. Having only the
                                    lines in the on-line catalog available, the first photo shows a stern
                                    view drawing and the aft opening of the tunnel shows a straight line
                                    from the apex of the inverted V (at the transom) to the chine. The
                                    left hand side of the lines drawing also shows the same straight line,
                                    with a hint of slightly higher elevation at station 11.

                                    The profile view shows a hint of downturn starting at the propeller
                                    (station 11 1/4). However it is confusing in that the top of the
                                    rudder curves downward more (makes sense) and the eye tries to follow
                                    the curve of the rudder.

                                    Could you scale the plans (or measure from your full size loft-up) the
                                    actual amount of this downturn of the top of the tunnel to the transom
                                    and let us know. It has to be there, as quoting from Atkins "Under way
                                    at top speed the draft will remain at 6 inches." implying no squat aft
                                    because of the tunnel. In addition, Mr. White also wrote of this
                                    phenomena of the stern rising as one approached top speed (and not
                                    disturbing the sand dollars in six inches of water.)

                                    I need to part with $75 and get me a set of plans.

                                    Lewis


                                    --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "windmill4048" <baileyd4048@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Ok, please help me understand what I am looking at in the plans.
                                    >
                                    > In both the framing and line drawing plans there is an arched line
                                    > shown running from the transom to just foreward of sta. 9. In the
                                    > framing plans this is shown as a solid piece of wood from the middle
                                    > of sta. 10-11 to the transom. That piece of wood is shown as the
                                    > top of the tunnel and over the rudder and prop.
                                    >
                                    > What am I looking at?
                                    >
                                  • John Kohnen
                                    Here s a better image of Rescue Minor s lines: http://www.boat-links.com/images/RescueMinorLines.gif There is a slight arc to the top of the tunnel aft of the
                                    Message 17 of 17 , Sep 2, 2006
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                                      Here's a better image of Rescue Minor's lines:

                                      http://www.boat-links.com/images/RescueMinorLines.gif

                                      There is a slight arc to the top of the tunnel aft of the sternpost. At
                                      station 10, forward of the sternpost, the height of the top of the
                                      inverted V is 10" above the baseline, at station 11 it's 11 3/4" and at
                                      the transom it's 10 1/2" above the baseline. I think Rich got that in his
                                      model.

                                      On Sat, 02 Sep 2006 05:30:35 -0700, windmill4048 wrote:

                                      > Ok, please help me understand what I am looking at in the plans.
                                      >
                                      > In both the framing and line drawing plans there is an arched line
                                      > shown running from the transom to just foreward of sta. 9. In the
                                      > framing plans this is shown as a solid piece of wood from the middle
                                      > of sta. 10-11 to the transom. That piece of wood is shown as the
                                      > top of the tunnel and over the rudder and prop.
                                      >
                                      > What am I looking at?

                                      --
                                      John <jkohnen@...>
                                      No man will be a sailor who has contrivance enough to get
                                      himself into jail; for being in a ship is being in a jail, with
                                      the chance of being drowned... A man in jail has more room,
                                      better food, and commonly better company. <Samuel Johnson>
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