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Re: What size rivets to use for Muad & Emeline?

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  • Lewis E. Gordon
    David, First of all, have you priced copper fasteners lately? The prices have gone out of sight. Second, where do you plan to use the copper rivets? The
    Message 1 of 7 , Aug 11 7:21 PM
      David,

      First of all, have you priced copper fasteners lately? The prices have
      gone out of sight. Second, where do you plan to use the copper rivets?
      The lapstrake sides might (maybe should) be riveted, but I cannot
      believe they are 3/4 inch planks. The only 3/4 inch planks I can think
      of on M&E are the bottom, and they should be nailed to the chine log,
      not riveted. Perhaps silicone bronze ring shank nails, three per plank
      end (4 1/2 to 6 inch widths) in pre-drilled holes staggered to not
      split the chine would work.

      For the topsides, WoodenBoat Magazine three or four issues back had a
      very good "How To" article on clench nailing lapstrake planks. Refer
      to it and just substitute copper rivets for the nails. The size and
      spacing for various plank thicknesses were given in the article.

      Good luck,
      Lewis


      --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "cartacreations"
      <cartacreations@...> wrote:
      >
      > I'm building Muad & Emeline (14' flat bottom skiff w/ 3/4" WRC
      planks). I'm going to rivet
      > the planks but the plans don't mention nail size or spacing. I
      figure it's going to be between
      > a 6d & 8d copper nail but just not sure which is better or how to
      space them.
      >
      > Anybody with similar Atkin plans that do mention what to use?
      >
      > I appreciate the help, thanks.
      >
      > David
      >
    • cartacreations
      No mistake about it, M&E is 3/4 planked bottom and sides, with copper rivets through the laps. Copper nails are expensive but in such a small boat doing it
      Message 2 of 7 , Aug 12 8:18 AM
        No mistake about it, M&E is 3/4" planked bottom and sides, with copper rivets through the
        laps. Copper nails are expensive but in such a small boat doing it right will not be cost
        prohibitive. SilBronze screws and ring shank nails are used for plank to chine, stem and
        transom joints, variously.

        It's the use of WRC (or W Cedar as specd) that allows for such robust planking without too
        much weight. I think Atkin's idea with M&E was to make a tough little fishing skiff and
        gave her heavy scantlings to that end.

        dave

        --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Lewis E. Gordon" <l_gordon_nica@...> wrote:
        >
        > David,
        >
        > First of all, have you priced copper fasteners lately? The prices have
        > gone out of sight. Second, where do you plan to use the copper rivets?
        > The lapstrake sides might (maybe should) be riveted, but I cannot
        > believe they are 3/4 inch planks. The only 3/4 inch planks I can think
        > of on M&E are the bottom, and they should be nailed to the chine log,
        > not riveted. Perhaps silicone bronze ring shank nails, three per plank
        > end (4 1/2 to 6 inch widths) in pre-drilled holes staggered to not
        > split the chine would work.
        >
        > For the topsides, WoodenBoat Magazine three or four issues back had a
        > very good "How To" article on clench nailing lapstrake planks. Refer
        > to it and just substitute copper rivets for the nails. The size and
        > spacing for various plank thicknesses were given in the article.
        >
        > Good luck,
        > Lewis
        >
        >
        > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "cartacreations"
        > <cartacreations@> wrote:
        > >
        > > I'm building Muad & Emeline (14' flat bottom skiff w/ 3/4" WRC
        > planks). I'm going to rivet
        > > the planks but the plans don't mention nail size or spacing. I
        > figure it's going to be between
        > > a 6d & 8d copper nail but just not sure which is better or how to
        > space them.
        > >
        > > Anybody with similar Atkin plans that do mention what to use?
        > >
        > > I appreciate the help, thanks.
        > >
        > > David
        > >
        >
      • Lewis E. Gordon
        Wow!! That is stout planking on the topsides. Here are my copper fastener links. The last one you have to look hard to find the three types of copper nails
        Message 3 of 7 , Aug 13 10:34 AM
          Wow!! That is stout planking on the topsides. Here are my copper
          fastener links. The last one you have to look hard to find the three
          types of copper nails they have. John Gardner preferred the dished
          English roves vs the flat North American ones. He also mentioned in
          building a 15' skiff with 3/4 pine planking, to use copper clinch
          nails spaced on 2" to 2 1/2 inch centers (no gauge given).

          http://www.slateandcopper.com
          http://www.faeringdesigninc.com/index.html
          http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/
          http://www.stainless-fasteners.com/products.htm

          Hope that this helps. Post some pictures!

          Lewis

          --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "cartacreations"
          <cartacreations@...> wrote:
          >
          > No mistake about it, M&E is 3/4" planked bottom and sides, with
          copper rivets through the
          > laps. Copper nails are expensive but in such a small boat doing it
          right will not be cost
          > prohibitive. SilBronze screws and ring shank nails are used for
          plank to chine, stem and
          > transom joints, variously.
          >
          > It's the use of WRC (or W Cedar as specd) that allows for such
          robust planking without too
          > much weight. I think Atkin's idea with M&E was to make a tough
          little fishing skiff and
          > gave her heavy scantlings to that end.
          >
          > dave
          >
        • cartacreations
          Thanks for the links. Jamestown is where I usually get my hardware. I have some samples coming from Faering, he reccomended either 12ga or 10ga (8d is the
          Message 4 of 7 , Aug 14 9:01 AM
            Thanks for the links. Jamestown is where I usually get my hardware. I have some samples
            coming from Faering, he reccomended either 12ga or 10ga (8d is the same as10ga I
            believe).

            I had misgivings about the plank thickness at first as well, but I'm sure it's not a misprint
            in the plans, he states the thickenss in several places and it's always 3/4" (other
            dimensions can be different depending on what sheet you looking at). Similar designs
            including other Atkin boats use 5/8" planks for boats of the same overall dimensions.
            Thats not a huge difference in plank size and because I'm using WRC instead of W. Ceadar
            I'm happy with the added thickness.

            I'll post some pics as I get further along, so far only the stem and transom knee are
            complete. Building frame set up is next, then I start planing down my plank stock which is
            busy drying in my garage : )

            thanks.

            --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Lewis E. Gordon" <l_gordon_nica@...> wrote:
            >
            > Wow!! That is stout planking on the topsides. Here are my copper
            > fastener links. The last one you have to look hard to find the three
            > types of copper nails they have. John Gardner preferred the dished
            > English roves vs the flat North American ones. He also mentioned in
            > building a 15' skiff with 3/4 pine planking, to use copper clinch
            > nails spaced on 2" to 2 1/2 inch centers (no gauge given).
            >
            > http://www.slateandcopper.com
            > http://www.faeringdesigninc.com/index.html
            > http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/
            > http://www.stainless-fasteners.com/products.htm
            >
            > Hope that this helps. Post some pictures!
            >
            > Lewis
            >
            > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "cartacreations"
            > <cartacreations@> wrote:
            > >
            > > No mistake about it, M&E is 3/4" planked bottom and sides, with
            > copper rivets through the
            > > laps. Copper nails are expensive but in such a small boat doing it
            > right will not be cost
            > > prohibitive. SilBronze screws and ring shank nails are used for
            > plank to chine, stem and
            > > transom joints, variously.
            > >
            > > It's the use of WRC (or W Cedar as specd) that allows for such
            > robust planking without too
            > > much weight. I think Atkin's idea with M&E was to make a tough
            > little fishing skiff and
            > > gave her heavy scantlings to that end.
            > >
            > > dave
            > >
            >
          • Dennis
            The building instructions for Lark -- strakes sized 9/16s has a rivet schedule of every 3.5 inches. This may be of some help since M&E is of similar size.
            Message 5 of 7 , Aug 20 10:45 AM
              The building instructions for Lark -- strakes sized 9/16s has a rivet
              schedule of every 3.5 inches. This may be of some help since M&E is of
              similar size. Sorry I could not help out on the size of the rivets.
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