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What size rivets to use for Muad & Emeline?

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  • cartacreations
    I m building Muad & Emeline (14 flat bottom skiff w/ 3/4 WRC planks). I m going to rivet the planks but the plans don t mention nail size or spacing. I
    Message 1 of 7 , Aug 11 1:27 PM
      I'm building Muad & Emeline (14' flat bottom skiff w/ 3/4" WRC planks). I'm going to rivet
      the planks but the plans don't mention nail size or spacing. I figure it's going to be between
      a 6d & 8d copper nail but just not sure which is better or how to space them.

      Anybody with similar Atkin plans that do mention what to use?

      I appreciate the help, thanks.

      David
    • DirtSailor
      David, As far as size I know that copper nails are more commonly refered to buy gauge ie 12g, 14g, etc... I would assume that the proper gauge will depend some
      Message 2 of 7 , Aug 11 1:57 PM
        David,



        As far as size I know that copper nails are more
        commonly refered to buy gauge ie 12g, 14g, etc...
        I would assume that the proper gauge will depend some
        on the thickness of the planks, and the strength
        required to hold the planks together. Since I am no
        expert in the field of copper nails you might drop
        these guys a note:

        http://www.faeringdesigninc.com/index.html

        Dirtsailor

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      • Lewis E. Gordon
        David, First of all, have you priced copper fasteners lately? The prices have gone out of sight. Second, where do you plan to use the copper rivets? The
        Message 3 of 7 , Aug 11 7:21 PM
          David,

          First of all, have you priced copper fasteners lately? The prices have
          gone out of sight. Second, where do you plan to use the copper rivets?
          The lapstrake sides might (maybe should) be riveted, but I cannot
          believe they are 3/4 inch planks. The only 3/4 inch planks I can think
          of on M&E are the bottom, and they should be nailed to the chine log,
          not riveted. Perhaps silicone bronze ring shank nails, three per plank
          end (4 1/2 to 6 inch widths) in pre-drilled holes staggered to not
          split the chine would work.

          For the topsides, WoodenBoat Magazine three or four issues back had a
          very good "How To" article on clench nailing lapstrake planks. Refer
          to it and just substitute copper rivets for the nails. The size and
          spacing for various plank thicknesses were given in the article.

          Good luck,
          Lewis


          --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "cartacreations"
          <cartacreations@...> wrote:
          >
          > I'm building Muad & Emeline (14' flat bottom skiff w/ 3/4" WRC
          planks). I'm going to rivet
          > the planks but the plans don't mention nail size or spacing. I
          figure it's going to be between
          > a 6d & 8d copper nail but just not sure which is better or how to
          space them.
          >
          > Anybody with similar Atkin plans that do mention what to use?
          >
          > I appreciate the help, thanks.
          >
          > David
          >
        • cartacreations
          No mistake about it, M&E is 3/4 planked bottom and sides, with copper rivets through the laps. Copper nails are expensive but in such a small boat doing it
          Message 4 of 7 , Aug 12 8:18 AM
            No mistake about it, M&E is 3/4" planked bottom and sides, with copper rivets through the
            laps. Copper nails are expensive but in such a small boat doing it right will not be cost
            prohibitive. SilBronze screws and ring shank nails are used for plank to chine, stem and
            transom joints, variously.

            It's the use of WRC (or W Cedar as specd) that allows for such robust planking without too
            much weight. I think Atkin's idea with M&E was to make a tough little fishing skiff and
            gave her heavy scantlings to that end.

            dave

            --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Lewis E. Gordon" <l_gordon_nica@...> wrote:
            >
            > David,
            >
            > First of all, have you priced copper fasteners lately? The prices have
            > gone out of sight. Second, where do you plan to use the copper rivets?
            > The lapstrake sides might (maybe should) be riveted, but I cannot
            > believe they are 3/4 inch planks. The only 3/4 inch planks I can think
            > of on M&E are the bottom, and they should be nailed to the chine log,
            > not riveted. Perhaps silicone bronze ring shank nails, three per plank
            > end (4 1/2 to 6 inch widths) in pre-drilled holes staggered to not
            > split the chine would work.
            >
            > For the topsides, WoodenBoat Magazine three or four issues back had a
            > very good "How To" article on clench nailing lapstrake planks. Refer
            > to it and just substitute copper rivets for the nails. The size and
            > spacing for various plank thicknesses were given in the article.
            >
            > Good luck,
            > Lewis
            >
            >
            > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "cartacreations"
            > <cartacreations@> wrote:
            > >
            > > I'm building Muad & Emeline (14' flat bottom skiff w/ 3/4" WRC
            > planks). I'm going to rivet
            > > the planks but the plans don't mention nail size or spacing. I
            > figure it's going to be between
            > > a 6d & 8d copper nail but just not sure which is better or how to
            > space them.
            > >
            > > Anybody with similar Atkin plans that do mention what to use?
            > >
            > > I appreciate the help, thanks.
            > >
            > > David
            > >
            >
          • Lewis E. Gordon
            Wow!! That is stout planking on the topsides. Here are my copper fastener links. The last one you have to look hard to find the three types of copper nails
            Message 5 of 7 , Aug 13 10:34 AM
              Wow!! That is stout planking on the topsides. Here are my copper
              fastener links. The last one you have to look hard to find the three
              types of copper nails they have. John Gardner preferred the dished
              English roves vs the flat North American ones. He also mentioned in
              building a 15' skiff with 3/4 pine planking, to use copper clinch
              nails spaced on 2" to 2 1/2 inch centers (no gauge given).

              http://www.slateandcopper.com
              http://www.faeringdesigninc.com/index.html
              http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/
              http://www.stainless-fasteners.com/products.htm

              Hope that this helps. Post some pictures!

              Lewis

              --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "cartacreations"
              <cartacreations@...> wrote:
              >
              > No mistake about it, M&E is 3/4" planked bottom and sides, with
              copper rivets through the
              > laps. Copper nails are expensive but in such a small boat doing it
              right will not be cost
              > prohibitive. SilBronze screws and ring shank nails are used for
              plank to chine, stem and
              > transom joints, variously.
              >
              > It's the use of WRC (or W Cedar as specd) that allows for such
              robust planking without too
              > much weight. I think Atkin's idea with M&E was to make a tough
              little fishing skiff and
              > gave her heavy scantlings to that end.
              >
              > dave
              >
            • cartacreations
              Thanks for the links. Jamestown is where I usually get my hardware. I have some samples coming from Faering, he reccomended either 12ga or 10ga (8d is the
              Message 6 of 7 , Aug 14 9:01 AM
                Thanks for the links. Jamestown is where I usually get my hardware. I have some samples
                coming from Faering, he reccomended either 12ga or 10ga (8d is the same as10ga I
                believe).

                I had misgivings about the plank thickness at first as well, but I'm sure it's not a misprint
                in the plans, he states the thickenss in several places and it's always 3/4" (other
                dimensions can be different depending on what sheet you looking at). Similar designs
                including other Atkin boats use 5/8" planks for boats of the same overall dimensions.
                Thats not a huge difference in plank size and because I'm using WRC instead of W. Ceadar
                I'm happy with the added thickness.

                I'll post some pics as I get further along, so far only the stem and transom knee are
                complete. Building frame set up is next, then I start planing down my plank stock which is
                busy drying in my garage : )

                thanks.

                --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Lewis E. Gordon" <l_gordon_nica@...> wrote:
                >
                > Wow!! That is stout planking on the topsides. Here are my copper
                > fastener links. The last one you have to look hard to find the three
                > types of copper nails they have. John Gardner preferred the dished
                > English roves vs the flat North American ones. He also mentioned in
                > building a 15' skiff with 3/4 pine planking, to use copper clinch
                > nails spaced on 2" to 2 1/2 inch centers (no gauge given).
                >
                > http://www.slateandcopper.com
                > http://www.faeringdesigninc.com/index.html
                > http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/
                > http://www.stainless-fasteners.com/products.htm
                >
                > Hope that this helps. Post some pictures!
                >
                > Lewis
                >
                > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "cartacreations"
                > <cartacreations@> wrote:
                > >
                > > No mistake about it, M&E is 3/4" planked bottom and sides, with
                > copper rivets through the
                > > laps. Copper nails are expensive but in such a small boat doing it
                > right will not be cost
                > > prohibitive. SilBronze screws and ring shank nails are used for
                > plank to chine, stem and
                > > transom joints, variously.
                > >
                > > It's the use of WRC (or W Cedar as specd) that allows for such
                > robust planking without too
                > > much weight. I think Atkin's idea with M&E was to make a tough
                > little fishing skiff and
                > > gave her heavy scantlings to that end.
                > >
                > > dave
                > >
                >
              • Dennis
                The building instructions for Lark -- strakes sized 9/16s has a rivet schedule of every 3.5 inches. This may be of some help since M&E is of similar size.
                Message 7 of 7 , Aug 20 10:45 AM
                  The building instructions for Lark -- strakes sized 9/16s has a rivet
                  schedule of every 3.5 inches. This may be of some help since M&E is of
                  similar size. Sorry I could not help out on the size of the rivets.
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