Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [AtkinBoats] Digest Number 419

Expand Messages
  • Robert Miller
    Brief reply, if i may: Many diesels offer hand-starting for back-up to starter motor. These generally employ a crank which you put in place to turn the
    Message 1 of 1 , Jun 3, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      Brief reply, if i may:

      Many diesels offer "hand-starting" for back-up to starter motor.
      These generally employ a crank which you put in place to turn the
      flywheel, and a compression release lever to make spinning the
      flywheel fairly easy. This much is no problem. In my experience,
      however, most of these back-up "systems" are unrealistic. When you
      close the compression release lever, the flywheel just comes to a
      halt. On a small light diesel with a properly sized and weighted
      flywheel, however, it can and does work. If the engine is small
      enough, and the flywheel has stored enough energy, closing the
      compression release lever really does start the engine. Check with
      other owners of the engine you are considering.

      I am aware of no USCG regulation regarding kerosene lighting. There
      are, however, visibility requirements, no matter what lighting source
      you choose. States are free to impose their own regulations that
      differ from (but do not contradict) the USCG regulations. Obviously,
      then, you need to see what your state requires in this regard.

      Robert


      On Jun 3, 2006, at 11:55 AM, AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com wrote:

      > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------
      > ~-->
      > Everything you need is one click away. Make Yahoo! your home page
      > now.
      > http://us.click.yahoo.com/AHchtC/4FxNAA/yQLSAA/6mbrlB/TM
      > --------------------------------------------------------------------
      > ~->
      >
      > There are 10 messages in this issue.
      >
      > Topics in this digest:
      >
      > 1. Re: Diesels
      > From: "Rob Rohde-Szudy" robrohdeszudy@...
      > 2. Re: Scalability & Tunnel Sterns
      > From: "Rob Rohde-Szudy" robrohdeszudy@...
      > 3. Hello from the Pantanal
      > From: "Mike Dolph" johndolph@...
      > 4. Re: Scandal
      > From: "David" arbordg@...
      > 5. Re: Diesels
      > From: "Greg Clever" gcarcher@...
      > 6. Re: Diesels
      > From: "stumblingthunder" john.h.boushall@...
      > 7. Re: Diesels
      > From: "stumblingthunder" john.h.boushall@...
      > 8. Re: Hello from the Pantanal
      > From: "John Kohnen" jkohnen@...
      > 9. Solstice Messabout
      > From: "John Kohnen" jkohnen@...
      > 10. Re: Hello from the Pantanal
      > From: "Lewis E. Gordon" l_gordon_nica@...
      >
      > ______________________________________________________________________
      > __
      > ______________________________________________________________________
      > __
      >
      > Message: 1
      > Date: Fri Jun 2, 2006 10:48 am (PDT)
      > From: "Rob Rohde-Szudy" robrohdeszudy@...
      > Subject: Re: Diesels
      >
      >
      > Hey Curtis,
      >
      > Glad to hear you're getting ready to weld! (Remember to run your
      > practice beads on scrap!)
      >
      > You're not likely to see a pull-start diesel over 5 hp. It's WAY
      > more compression to pull against than a gas engine. You need a
      > starter. The old Caterpillar diesels way back in the day had a gas
      > "pony engine" that you'd hand start. It shared coolant with the big
      > diesel, so it would warm the block. Then you'd ease in a clutch to
      > turn the diesel over until it fired on its own. Sounds like a pain
      > in the butt.
      >
      > You must plan to moor RM in salt water. I guess I can't offer much
      > wisdom on electrolysis, since I live 1200 mile from the nearest
      > saltwater. And since you can go so many more places with a trailer,
      > I don't give mooring much thought. Though that is something to
      > think about, since saltwater is corrosive and trailers are handy. I
      > also expect the resale value would be better with a trailer, since
      > it would make it more available to the great many of us living on
      > shallow water in the interior. Something to consider.
      >
      > In any case, you are going to be thinking more about "how much"
      > electric than "if" you'll have it. You need nav lights and kerosene
      > is both too dim and illegal for powerboats (I seem to remember).
      > These can have a self-contained ground to the battery, e.g. no
      > electricity to the boat. Of course the same is true for the starter
      > adn ignition system. On the other hand, by APPLYING a small current
      > to the hull you can PREVENT corrosion. Look up electrolytic rust
      > prevention. It's like backwards electroplating in slow motion, sort
      > of. They use this on steel bridge pilings. And of course there are
      > sacrificial zinc anodes.
      >
      > I guess what I'm getting at is that is saltwater you're going to
      > have to learn enough electrochemistry to control corrosion ANYWAY.
      > I suspect that if you're learning that much, it wouldn't be a big
      > deal to have a gas engine or electic starter. Having an air starter
      > is nice because the salt air won't ruin the starter, but I don't
      > think it will make much difference to the hull. Same deal with the
      > distributor of a gas engine.
      >
      > Caveat emptor, though. I live a long way from the briny blue.
      >
      > Careful of that outboard idea, though. I think it would actually be
      > mechanically easier to do the inboard Robb White transmission.
      > Really! It's not as simply as bolting up the outboard's cavitation
      > plate to the tunnel. You need the water pump submerged, but there's
      > no water in the tunnel unless the prop is turning. You'd have to
      > leave the motor in gear and you'd still have dry start-ups, which
      > ruin the impeller pretty fast. So you'd really want the pump on an
      > intermediate shaft - a belt from the powerhead to the intermediate
      > shaft and another belt to the lower unit. You'd also need a cover
      > plate with shaft seals on the lower unit or it might leak air into
      > the tunnel. They're not all that airtight. So you'd have to mess
      > with the same bearings in either installation.
      >
      > Unless you can get a good outboard DIRT cheap, I would look for a
      > cheap gas or diesel industrial engine and get some Type B belts and
      > sheaves. The shaft is easy enough to ship to someone for machining.
      > Or maybe you can find a sailboat shaft and log assembly from
      > someone whose engine died and they switched to an outboard. Happens
      > all the time. Cutting a shaft to length and mounting a sheave is
      > easy. A pivoting motor mount isn't too tough either. You could skip
      > the reverse gear until later to simplify matters. Just leave some
      > space to install it.
      >
      > So I think that if you're planning to install the power yourself,
      > Robb's setup might well be the easiest for the amateur mechanic.
      > There is a LOT less messing with close tolerances. Belts are great
      > that way!! If you're worried about the cost of a diesel and
      > transmission, just think what it would cost if you can't get it
      > aligned right and have to take it to a marine mechanic after you've
      > been messing with it. Or worse, you don't notice it's misaligned
      > and ruin something! Like I said, this is where belts are great -
      > lots of wiggle room for us amateurs to say "close enough". Under 25
      > hp or so the tensions on a V-belt are under 400 lbs. A lever with a
      > big spring is enough to give this to us.
      >
      > I'd change one thing, though. You will likely want to use a longer
      > shaft than Robb and mount the engine backwards. Then you can use RH
      > props and save money there, and Atkin's splayed shaft will work as
      > intended. Of course it will work with the reverse splay Robb used,
      > but LH props are harder to find.
      >
      > Sorry if I seem like a cheerleader for Robb's transmission. It just
      > seems both cheaper and easier for someone doing his own
      > installation. If I were you I'd find a good deal on a Kawasaki (or
      > similar) gas engine and put it in with belts. You can always
      > upgrade to diesel when you repower, or sell this one when you build
      > your bigger (and diesel) boat.
      >
      > Hey, where are you located? We have TONS of machinists here in WI.
      > I have one in the family too. Why don't you email me privately and
      > I'll see if I can hook you up with a better price (and a less blank
      > stare) than you're getting out there.
      >
      > --Rob
      >
      >
      > ---------------------------------
      > Do you Yahoo!?
      > Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      > ______________________________________________________________________
      > __
      > ______________________________________________________________________
      > __
      >
      > Message: 2
      > Date: Fri Jun 2, 2006 10:56 am (PDT)
      > From: "Rob Rohde-Szudy" robrohdeszudy@...
      > Subject: Re: Scalability & Tunnel Sterns
      >
      >
      > Curtis,
      >
      > Yeah, that "dozen or so prototypes" is a big deal. Tunnel stern
      > boats are particularly hard to model, too. Normally you can build
      > flotational models and tow them in a test tank to figure out hull
      > resistance and some other things. Weston Farmer has a wonderful
      > chapter on this in his book. But a tunnel stern is different. The
      > tunnel doesn't fill when you tow it. The propulsion MUST come from
      > a pump in the tunnel to test the hull's dynamics. This would mean
      > installing scale engines, radio control, and whatever measuring
      > instruments are needed. Fascinating, to be sure, but the cost of
      > modeling goes way up. But given the cost of constructing a full-
      > sized boat and powering it, this may well be justified.
      > Particularly since the guys who really understood this hull type
      > have left this world.
      >
      > Robb was going to build the 12' boat by eye and hope for the best,
      > since he "got lucky" (his words) with Rescue Minor. By the way, I
      > think you're right that he intended 4-5 hp. After I sent the last
      > message I realized that the 7 hp figure was the most he'd put on
      > the Sport Boat. Memory is the first to go, I guess.
      >
      > --Rob
      >
      >
      > ---------------------------------
      > Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and
      > 30+ countries) for 2ยข/min or less.
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      > ______________________________________________________________________
      > __
      > ______________________________________________________________________
      > __
      >
      > Message: 3
      > Date: Fri Jun 2, 2006 12:27 pm (PDT)
      > From: "Mike Dolph" johndolph@...
      > Subject: Hello from the Pantanal
      >
      >
      > Can I transfer ownerships of plans I purchased? I won't be able to
      > stay here in Brasil since they won't recognize my permanent residency
      > which I got over 30 years ago and I no longer have the necessary
      > relatives in-country. I bought plans for Russel R and I was thinking
      > of giving them to these folks
      >
      > http://www.riosvivos.org.br/
      >
      > to use in their activism.
      >
      > I don't know that I would build the same boat in the US since I like
      > sail better in general. If I gave the plans to someone here and they
      > built one would it be a legal and fair use of the plans.
      >
      > Mike Dolph
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ______________________________________________________________________
      > __
      > ______________________________________________________________________
      > __
      >
      > Message: 4
      > Date: Fri Jun 2, 2006 12:37 pm (PDT)
      > From: "David" arbordg@...
      > Subject: Re: Scandal
      >
      >
      > John,
      >
      > Yes, it is amazing about some folks priorities, eh? <BG> You're right
      > about the link, of course. What WAS I thinking? Wouldn't it be great
      > if a bunch of Atkin boat owners got inspired to come to our solstice
      > event? I'm sure they'd be very, very welcome! May the fleas of a
      > thousand wildebeast infest my loincloth until the day I finally learn!
      >
      > Cheers,
      > David Graybeal
      > Portland, OR
      >
      > "Man is the only animal that blushes, or needs to" -- Mark Twain
      >
      > *******************
      >
      > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jkohnen@...> wrote:
      >>
      >> David, David, when will you learn... When you mention messabouts you
      > have
      >> to tell people where they can find them:
      >>
      >> http://www.coots.org/
      >>
      >> Pat's gotta build an "arbor" (isn't that your line of work David?
      > <g>) as
      >> a wedding present for his son, Chad, before he can get back to work
      > on the
      >> Scandal. Talk about having your priorities mixed up... ;o)
      >> --
      >> John <jkohnen@...>
      >> No man will be a sailor who has contrivance enough to get
      >> himself into jail; for being in a ship is being in a jail, with
      >> the chance of being drowned... A man in jail has more room,
      >> better food, and commonly better company. <Samuel Johnson>
      >>
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ______________________________________________________________________
      > __
      > ______________________________________________________________________
      > __
      >
      > Message: 5
      > Date: Fri Jun 2, 2006 5:32 pm (PDT)
      > From: "Greg Clever" gcarcher@...
      > Subject: Re: Diesels
      >
      >
      > Kreagen auto parts in CA Has very nice looking (LIke a Honda)
      > Champion OHV 6.5HP, 45 degree, single cylinderair cooled stationary
      > engines - pull start and gas tank included - for $199.00.
      > Put that in your boat and smoke it!
      >
      > GC Argher.
      >
      > On Jun 2, 2006, at 10:48 AM, Rob Rohde-Szudy wrote:
      >
      >> Hey Curtis,
      >>
      >> Glad to hear you're getting ready to weld! (Remember to run your
      >> practice beads on scrap!)
      >>
      >> You're not likely to see a pull-start diesel over 5 hp. It's WAY
      >> more compression to pull against than a gas engine. You need a
      >> starter. The old Caterpillar diesels way back in the day had a gas
      >> "pony engine" that you'd hand start. It shared coolant with the big
      >> diesel, so it would warm the block. Then you'd ease in a clutch to
      >> turn the diesel over until it fired on its own. Sounds like a pain
      >> in the butt.
      >>
      >> You must plan to moor RM in salt water. I guess I can't offer much
      >> wisdom on electrolysis, since I live 1200 mile from the nearest
      >> saltwater. And since you can go so many more places with a trailer,
      >> I don't give mooring much thought. Though that is something to
      >> think about, since saltwater is corrosive and trailers are handy. I
      >> also expect the resale value would be better with a trailer, since
      >> it would make it more available to the great many of us living on
      >> shallow water in the interior. Something to consider.
      >>
      >> In any case, you are going to be thinking more about "how much"
      >> electric than "if" you'll have it. You need nav lights and kerosene
      >> is both too dim and illegal for powerboats (I seem to remember).
      >> These can have a self-contained ground to the battery, e.g. no
      >> electricity to the boat. Of course the same is true for the starter
      >> adn ignition system. On the other hand, by APPLYING a small current
      >> to the hull you can PREVENT corrosion. Look up electrolytic rust
      >> prevention. It's like backwards electroplating in slow motion, sort
      >> of. They use this on steel bridge pilings. And of course there are
      >> sacrificial zinc anodes.
      >>
      >> I guess what I'm getting at is that is saltwater you're going to
      >> have to learn enough electrochemistry to control corrosion ANYWAY.
      >> I suspect that if you're learning that much, it wouldn't be a big
      >> deal to have a gas engine or electic starter. Having an air starter
      >> is nice because the salt air won't ruin the starter, but I don't
      >> think it will make much difference to the hull. Same deal with the
      >> distributor of a gas engine.
      >>
      >> Caveat emptor, though. I live a long way from the briny blue.
      >>
      >> Careful of that outboard idea, though. I think it would actually be
      >> mechanically easier to do the inboard Robb White transmission.
      >> Really! It's not as simply as bolting up the outboard's cavitation
      >> plate to the tunnel. You need the water pump submerged, but there's
      >> no water in the tunnel unless the prop is turning. You'd have to
      >> leave the motor in gear and you'd still have dry start-ups, which
      >> ruin the impeller pretty fast. So you'd really want the pump on an
      >> intermediate shaft - a belt from the powerhead to the intermediate
      >> shaft and another belt to the lower unit. You'd also need a cover
      >> plate with shaft seals on the lower unit or it might leak air into
      >> the tunnel. They're not all that airtight. So you'd have to mess
      >> with the same bearings in either installation.
      >>
      >> Unless you can get a good outboard DIRT cheap, I would look for a
      >> cheap gas or diesel industrial engine and get some Type B belts and
      >> sheaves. The shaft is easy enough to ship to someone for machining.
      >> Or maybe you can find a sailboat shaft and log assembly from
      >> someone whose engine died and they switched to an outboard. Happens
      >> all the time. Cutting a shaft to length and mounting a sheave is
      >> easy. A pivoting motor mount isn't too tough either. You could skip
      >> the reverse gear until later to simplify matters. Just leave some
      >> space to install it.
      >>
      >> So I think that if you're planning to install the power yourself,
      >> Robb's setup might well be the easiest for the amateur mechanic.
      >> There is a LOT less messing with close tolerances. Belts are great
      >> that way!! If you're worried about the cost of a diesel and
      >> transmission, just think what it would cost if you can't get it
      >> aligned right and have to take it to a marine mechanic after you've
      >> been messing with it. Or worse, you don't notice it's misaligned
      >> and ruin something! Like I said, this is where belts are great -
      >> lots of wiggle room for us amateurs to say "close enough". Under 25
      >> hp or so the tensions on a V-belt are under 400 lbs. A lever with a
      >> big spring is enough to give this to us.
      >>
      >> I'd change one thing, though. You will likely want to use a longer
      >> shaft than Robb and mount the engine backwards. Then you can use RH
      >> props and save money there, and Atkin's splayed shaft will work as
      >> intended. Of course it will work with the reverse splay Robb used,
      >> but LH props are harder to find.
      >>
      >> Sorry if I seem like a cheerleader for Robb's transmission. It just
      >> seems both cheaper and easier for someone doing his own
      >> installation. If I were you I'd find a good deal on a Kawasaki (or
      >> similar) gas engine and put it in with belts. You can always
      >> upgrade to diesel when you repower, or sell this one when you build
      >> your bigger (and diesel) boat.
      >>
      >> Hey, where are you located? We have TONS of machinists here in WI.
      >> I have one in the family too. Why don't you email me privately and
      >> I'll see if I can hook you up with a better price (and a less blank
      >> stare) than you're getting out there.
      >>
      >> --Rob
      >>
      >>
      >> ---------------------------------
      >> Do you Yahoo!?
      >> Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
      >>
      >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> No flaming, cursing, politics, religion or public mopery. Please be
      >> polite.
      >>
      >> If you set out to build an Atkin boat, please do not modify the
      >> plans. If you stray from the plans you do so at your own risk and
      >> Atkin & Co. will take no responsibility for the performance of the
      >> resulting boat.
      >>
      >> The current Atkin boat plans catalog is online at
      >> <http://www.atkinboatplans.com/>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> SPONSORED LINKS
      >> Boat building design Building design Building design software
      >> Home building design Commercial building design Home building
      >> design plan
      >>
      >> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
      >>
      >> Visit your group "AtkinBoats" on the web.
      >>
      >> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      >> AtkinBoats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >>
      >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
      >>
      >>
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ______________________________________________________________________
      > __
      > ______________________________________________________________________
      > __
      >
      > Message: 6
      > Date: Fri Jun 2, 2006 5:38 pm (PDT)
      > From: "stumblingthunder" john.h.boushall@...
      > Subject: Re: Diesels
      >
      >
      > I do not know if the previous message went out, but pardon the repeat
      > if this is a dup!
      >
      > Back in my racing days, I had on some of the boats that I raced a
      > spring powered backup starter motor for either the generator or main
      > engine. I have also used these on farm tractors. There are models
      > that are large enough to start an 8 cylinder diesel engine. The
      > website for this is:
      >
      > www.springstarter.com
      >
      > Brings back wonderful memories!
      >
      > John B.
      >
      > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, Rob Rohde-Szudy
      > <robrohdeszudy@...> wrote:
      >>
      >> Hey Curtis,
      >>
      >> Glad to hear you're getting ready to weld! (Remember to run your
      > practice beads on scrap!)
      >>
      >> You're not likely to see a pull-start diesel over 5 hp. It's WAY
      > more compression to pull against than a gas engine. You need a
      > starter. The old Caterpillar diesels way back in the day had a
      > gas "pony engine" that you'd hand start. It shared coolant with the
      > big diesel, so it would warm the block. Then you'd ease in a clutch
      > to turn the diesel over until it fired on its own. Sounds like a pain
      > in the butt.
      >>
      >> You must plan to moor RM in salt water. I guess I can't offer much
      > wisdom on electrolysis, since I live 1200 mile from the nearest
      > saltwater. And since you can go so many more places with a trailer, I
      > don't give mooring much thought. Though that is something to think
      > about, since saltwater is corrosive and trailers are handy. I also
      > expect the resale value would be better with a trailer, since it
      > would make it more available to the great many of us living on
      > shallow water in the interior. Something to consider.
      >>
      >> In any case, you are going to be thinking more about "how much"
      > electric than "if" you'll have it. You need nav lights and kerosene
      > is both too dim and illegal for powerboats (I seem to remember).
      > These can have a self-contained ground to the battery, e.g. no
      > electricity to the boat. Of course the same is true for the starter
      > adn ignition system. On the other hand, by APPLYING a small current
      > to the hull you can PREVENT corrosion. Look up electrolytic rust
      > prevention. It's like backwards electroplating in slow motion, sort
      > of. They use this on steel bridge pilings. And of course there are
      > sacrificial zinc anodes.
      >>
      >> I guess what I'm getting at is that is saltwater you're going to
      > have to learn enough electrochemistry to control corrosion ANYWAY. I
      > suspect that if you're learning that much, it wouldn't be a big deal
      > to have a gas engine or electic starter. Having an air starter is
      > nice because the salt air won't ruin the starter, but I don't think
      > it will make much difference to the hull. Same deal with the
      > distributor of a gas engine.
      >>
      >> Caveat emptor, though. I live a long way from the briny blue.
      >>
      >> Careful of that outboard idea, though. I think it would actually be
      > mechanically easier to do the inboard Robb White transmission.
      > Really! It's not as simply as bolting up the outboard's cavitation
      > plate to the tunnel. You need the water pump submerged, but there's
      > no water in the tunnel unless the prop is turning. You'd have to
      > leave the motor in gear and you'd still have dry start-ups, which
      > ruin the impeller pretty fast. So you'd really want the pump on an
      > intermediate shaft - a belt from the powerhead to the intermediate
      > shaft and another belt to the lower unit. You'd also need a cover
      > plate with shaft seals on the lower unit or it might leak air into
      > the tunnel. They're not all that airtight. So you'd have to mess with
      > the same bearings in either installation.
      >>
      >> Unless you can get a good outboard DIRT cheap, I would look for a
      > cheap gas or diesel industrial engine and get some Type B belts and
      > sheaves. The shaft is easy enough to ship to someone for machining.
      > Or maybe you can find a sailboat shaft and log assembly from someone
      > whose engine died and they switched to an outboard. Happens all the
      > time. Cutting a shaft to length and mounting a sheave is easy. A
      > pivoting motor mount isn't too tough either. You could skip the
      > reverse gear until later to simplify matters. Just leave some space
      > to install it.
      >>
      >> So I think that if you're planning to install the power yourself,
      > Robb's setup might well be the easiest for the amateur mechanic.
      > There is a LOT less messing with close tolerances. Belts are great
      > that way!! If you're worried about the cost of a diesel and
      > transmission, just think what it would cost if you can't get it
      > aligned right and have to take it to a marine mechanic after you've
      > been messing with it. Or worse, you don't notice it's misaligned and
      > ruin something! Like I said, this is where belts are great - lots of
      > wiggle room for us amateurs to say "close enough". Under 25 hp or so
      > the tensions on a V-belt are under 400 lbs. A lever with a big spring
      > is enough to give this to us.
      >>
      >> I'd change one thing, though. You will likely want to use a longer
      > shaft than Robb and mount the engine backwards. Then you can use RH
      > props and save money there, and Atkin's splayed shaft will work as
      > intended. Of course it will work with the reverse splay Robb used,
      > but LH props are harder to find.
      >>
      >> Sorry if I seem like a cheerleader for Robb's transmission. It just
      > seems both cheaper and easier for someone doing his own installation.
      > If I were you I'd find a good deal on a Kawasaki (or similar) gas
      > engine and put it in with belts. You can always upgrade to diesel
      > when you repower, or sell this one when you build your bigger (and
      > diesel) boat.
      >>
      >> Hey, where are you located? We have TONS of machinists here in WI.
      > I have one in the family too. Why don't you email me privately and
      > I'll see if I can hook you up with a better price (and a less blank
      > stare) than you're getting out there.
      >>
      >> --Rob
      >>
      >>
      >> ---------------------------------
      >> Do you Yahoo!?
      >> Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
      >>
      >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >>
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ______________________________________________________________________
      > __
      > ______________________________________________________________________
      > __
      >
      > Message: 7
      > Date: Fri Jun 2, 2006 5:42 pm (PDT)
      > From: "stumblingthunder" john.h.boushall@...
      > Subject: Re: Diesels
      >
      >
      > Check this site:
      > www.springstarter.com
      >
      > I have used these for emergency starters on some of the racing
      > sailboats I use to crew on in a different lifetime. Would keep one
      > oiled and bagged in case the starter went on the charging motor.
      >
      > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, Rob Rohde-Szudy
      > <robrohdeszudy@...> wrote:
      >>
      >> Hey Curtis,
      >>
      >> Glad to hear you're getting ready to weld! (Remember to run your
      > practice beads on scrap!)
      >>
      >> You're not likely to see a pull-start diesel over 5 hp. It's WAY
      > more compression to pull against than a gas engine. You need a
      > starter. The old Caterpillar diesels way back in the day had a
      > gas "pony engine" that you'd hand start. It shared coolant with the
      > big diesel, so it would warm the block. Then you'd ease in a clutch
      > to turn the diesel over until it fired on its own. Sounds like a pain
      > in the butt.
      >>
      >> You must plan to moor RM in salt water. I guess I can't offer much
      > wisdom on electrolysis, since I live 1200 mile from the nearest
      > saltwater. And since you can go so many more places with a trailer, I
      > don't give mooring much thought. Though that is something to think
      > about, since saltwater is corrosive and trailers are handy. I also
      > expect the resale value would be better with a trailer, since it
      > would make it more available to the great many of us living on
      > shallow water in the interior. Something to consider.
      >>
      >> In any case, you are going to be thinking more about "how much"
      > electric than "if" you'll have it. You need nav lights and kerosene
      > is both too dim and illegal for powerboats (I seem to remember).
      > These can have a self-contained ground to the battery, e.g. no
      > electricity to the boat. Of course the same is true for the starter
      > adn ignition system. On the other hand, by APPLYING a small current
      > to the hull you can PREVENT corrosion. Look up electrolytic rust
      > prevention. It's like backwards electroplating in slow motion, sort
      > of. They use this on steel bridge pilings. And of course there are
      > sacrificial zinc anodes.
      >>
      >> I guess what I'm getting at is that is saltwater you're going to
      > have to learn enough electrochemistry to control corrosion ANYWAY. I
      > suspect that if you're learning that much, it wouldn't be a big deal
      > to have a gas engine or electic starter. Having an air starter is
      > nice because the salt air won't ruin the starter, but I don't think
      > it will make much difference to the hull. Same deal with the
      > distributor of a gas engine.
      >>
      >> Caveat emptor, though. I live a long way from the briny blue.
      >>
      >> Careful of that outboard idea, though. I think it would actually be
      > mechanically easier to do the inboard Robb White transmission.
      > Really! It's not as simply as bolting up the outboard's cavitation
      > plate to the tunnel. You need the water pump submerged, but there's
      > no water in the tunnel unless the prop is turning. You'd have to
      > leave the motor in gear and you'd still have dry start-ups, which
      > ruin the impeller pretty fast. So you'd really want the pump on an
      > intermediate shaft - a belt from the powerhead to the intermediate
      > shaft and another belt to the lower unit. You'd also need a cover
      > plate with shaft seals on the lower unit or it might leak air into
      > the tunnel. They're not all that airtight. So you'd have to mess with
      > the same bearings in either installation.
      >>
      >> Unless you can get a good outboard DIRT cheap, I would look for a
      > cheap gas or diesel industrial engine and get some Type B belts and
      > sheaves. The shaft is easy enough to ship to someone for machining.
      > Or maybe you can find a sailboat shaft and log assembly from someone
      > whose engine died and they switched to an outboard. Happens all the
      > time. Cutting a shaft to length and mounting a sheave is easy. A
      > pivoting motor mount isn't too tough either. You could skip the
      > reverse gear until later to simplify matters. Just leave some space
      > to install it.
      >
      > They work very well.
      >
      > John B
      >>
      >> So I think that if you're planning to install the power yourself,
      > Robb's setup might well be the easiest for the amateur mechanic.
      > There is a LOT less messing with close tolerances. Belts are great
      > that way!! If you're worried about the cost of a diesel and
      > transmission, just think what it would cost if you can't get it
      > aligned right and have to take it to a marine mechanic after you've
      > been messing with it. Or worse, you don't notice it's misaligned and
      > ruin something! Like I said, this is where belts are great - lots of
      > wiggle room for us amateurs to say "close enough". Under 25 hp or so
      > the tensions on a V-belt are under 400 lbs. A lever with a big spring
      > is enough to give this to us.
      >>
      >> I'd change one thing, though. You will likely want to use a longer
      > shaft than Robb and mount the engine backwards. Then you can use RH
      > props and save money there, and Atkin's splayed shaft will work as
      > intended. Of course it will work with the reverse splay Robb used,
      > but LH props are harder to find.
      >>
      >> Sorry if I seem like a cheerleader for Robb's transmission. It just
      > seems both cheaper and easier for someone doing his own installation.
      > If I were you I'd find a good deal on a Kawasaki (or similar) gas
      > engine and put it in with belts. You can always upgrade to diesel
      > when you repower, or sell this one when you build your bigger (and
      > diesel) boat.
      >>
      >> Hey, where are you located? We have TONS of machinists here in WI.
      > I have one in the family too. Why don't you email me privately and
      > I'll see if I can hook you up with a better price (and a less blank
      > stare) than you're getting out there.
      >>
      >> --Rob
      >>
      >>
      >> ---------------------------------
      >> Do you Yahoo!?
      >> Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
      >>
      >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >>
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ______________________________________________________________________
      > __
      > ______________________________________________________________________
      > __
      >
      > Message: 8
      > Date: Fri Jun 2, 2006 6:31 pm (PDT)
      > From: "John Kohnen" jkohnen@...
      > Subject: Re: Hello from the Pantanal
      >
      >
      > Mike-
      >
      > When you bought the plans it gave you the license to build one boat
      > from
      > them. As long as you haven't built a Russell R. it's kosher to
      > transfer
      > the plans and license to anyone you want. So, which Atkin sailboat
      > are you
      > going to build when you get settled back here in the US of A? <g>
      >
      > On Fri, 02 Jun 2006 12:24:19 -0700, Mike D wrote:
      >
      >> Can I transfer ownerships of plans I purchased? I won't be able to
      >> stay here in Brasil since they won't recognize my permanent residency
      >> which I got over 30 years ago and I no longer have the necessary
      >> relatives in-country. I bought plans for Russel R and I was thinking
      >> of giving them to these folks
      >>
      >> http://www.riosvivos.org.br/
      >>
      >> to use in their activism.
      >>
      >> I don't know that I would build the same boat in the US since I like
      >> sail better in general. If I gave the plans to someone here and they
      >> built one would it be a legal and fair use of the plans.
      >
      > --
      > John <jkohnen@...>
      > Love is the delightful interval between meeting a beautiful girl
      > and discovering she looks like a haddock. <John Barrymore>
      >
      >
      > ______________________________________________________________________
      > __
      > ______________________________________________________________________
      > __
      >
      > Message: 9
      > Date: Fri Jun 2, 2006 7:01 pm (PDT)
      > From: "John Kohnen" jkohnen@...
      > Subject: Solstice Messabout
      >
      >
      > And our host for the Solstice Messabout is himself an Atkin boat
      > nut of
      > the first water -- Lon is dreaming of building a Levee Belle! He's
      > the one
      > who talked Mrs. Atkin into putting Levee Belle into the catalog.
      >
      > http://www.dragonwall.net/summer-solstice-messabout/
      >
      > http://www.coots.org/
      >
      > On Fri, 02 Jun 2006 12:34:39 -0700, David G wrote:
      >
      >> Yes, it is amazing about some folks priorities, eh? <BG> You're right
      >> about the link, of course. What WAS I thinking? Wouldn't it be great
      >> if a bunch of Atkin boat owners got inspired to come to our solstice
      >> event? I'm sure they'd be very, very welcome! May the fleas of a
      >> thousand wildebeast infest my loincloth until the day I finally
      >> learn!
      >
      > --
      > John <jkohnen@...>
      > He got hold of the red meat of the language and turned it into
      > hamburgers. <Richard Gordon on Ernest Hemingway>
      >
      >
      > ______________________________________________________________________
      > __
      > ______________________________________________________________________
      > __
      >
      > Message: 10
      > Date: Fri Jun 2, 2006 10:08 pm (PDT)
      > From: "Lewis E. Gordon" l_gordon_nica@...
      > Subject: Re: Hello from the Pantanal
      >
      >
      > Mike,
      >
      > Sorry to hear that the bureaucrats put the brakes on your project.
      > Bring yourself and the plans up here to Nicaragua. Lake Nicaragua is
      > not as challenging as Pantanal, but it's still a lot of fun.
      >
      > Lewis
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Dolph" <johndolph@...> wrote:
      >>
      >> Can I transfer ownerships of plans I purchased? I won't be able to
      >> stay here in Brasil since they won't recognize my permanent residency
      >> which I got over 30 years ago and I no longer have the necessary
      >> relatives in-country. I bought plans for Russel R and I was thinking
      >> of giving them to these folks
      >>
      >> http://www.riosvivos.org.br/
      >>
      >> to use in their activism.
      >>
      >> I don't know that I would build the same boat in the US since I like
      >> sail better in general. If I gave the plans to someone here and they
      >> built one would it be a legal and fair use of the plans.
      >>
      >> Mike Dolph
      >>
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ______________________________________________________________________
      > __
      > ______________________________________________________________________
      > __
      >
      > No flaming, cursing, politics, religion or public mopery. Please be
      > polite.
      >
      > If you set out to build an Atkin boat, please do not modify the
      > plans. If you stray from the plans you do so at your own risk and
      > Atkin & Co. will take no responsibility for the performance of the
      > resulting boat.
      >
      > The current Atkin boat plans catalog is online at
      > <http://www.atkinboatplans.com/>
      >
      >
      >
      > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      > --
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      > --
      >
      >
      >



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.