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Re: [AtkinBoats] plywood Rocking Horse

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  • jkohnen@boat-links.com
    Don t dismiss old-fashoned plank on frame construction entirely. For a boat that s going to be living in the water (and you re not going to be trailering a
    Message 1 of 14 , Mar 2, 2004
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      Don't dismiss old-fashoned plank on frame construction entirely. For a boat
      that's going to be living in the water (and you're not going to be
      trailering a Rocking Chair much) it's by no means obsolete. You might also
      consider steel for the hull. I think Harry Sucher shows a steel scow in his
      Simplified Boatbuilding to give you an idea for the scantlings.

      On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 08:32:08 -0000, Alan wrote:
      > Greetings all.
      >
      > There must be many people such as myself who are interested in the
      > Atkins houseboat designs, but not in the original (now obsolete)
      > form of construction.
      > ...

      --
      John <jkohnen@...>
      http://www.boat-links.com/
      A facility for quotation covers the absence of original thought.
      <Lord Peter Wimsey>
    • craig o'donnell
      ... I think he does. I could check. Aluminum would work too. Learn to weld! Scows are pretty darn simple! -- Craig O Donnell Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
      Message 2 of 14 , Mar 3, 2004
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        >You might also
        >consider steel for the hull. I think Harry Sucher shows a steel scow in his
        >Simplified Boatbuilding to give you an idea for the scantlings.

        I think he does. I could check. Aluminum would work too. Learn to weld!
        Scows are pretty darn simple!
        --
        Craig O'Donnell
        Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
        <http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/>
        The Proa FAQ <http://boat-links.com/proafaq.html>
        The Cheap Pages <http://www.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/>
        Sailing Canoes, Polytarp Sails, Bamboo, Chinese Junks,
        American Proas, the Bolger Boat Honor Roll,
        Plywood Boats, Bamboo Rafts, &c.
        _________________________________

        -- Professor of Boatology -- Junkomologist
        -- Macintosh kinda guy
        Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
        _________________________________
      • alan terry
        ... For a boat ... might also ... scow in his ... All these points I welcome and accept. The advantages of a metal hull have been gaining ground in the back of
        Message 3 of 14 , Mar 3, 2004
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          --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, jkohnen@b... wrote:
          > Don't dismiss old-fashoned plank on frame construction entirely.
          For a boat
          > that's going to be living in the water (and you're not going to be
          > trailering a Rocking Chair much) it's by no means obsolete. You
          might also
          > consider steel for the hull. I think Harry Sucher shows a steel
          scow in his
          > Simplified Boatbuilding to give you an idea for the scantlings.


          All these points I welcome and accept. The advantages of a metal
          hull have been gaining ground in the back of my mind against the
          disadvantage of not being able to weld at present. My idea at the
          moment is to purchase the study plans of "Huckleberry Finn" along
          with the full plans of "Rocking Chair", in the hope that they will
          give an insight to the Atkins approach to construction in metal. I
          have noted that the Atkins (including Pat) place great importance on
          their designs not being changed too much. Fair enough! I guess
          there's always a temptation to tinker, but hopefully compatible and
          restrained tinkering will be OK.
          I imagine that the pleasure of building and owning a recogniseably
          classic boat (even if it's "only" a barge) could well be even
          greater than any pleasure derived from excessivly altering an
          established design to suit personal "preferences".

          AlanTerry
        • lon wells
          If you decide to build in steel boat you would be well advised to hire a old shipfitter to help you. Someone that knows how to use a dog, saddle and wedge.
          Message 4 of 14 , Mar 4, 2004
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            If you decide to build in steel boat you would be well advised to hire a old shipfitter to help you. Someone that knows how to use a dog, saddle and wedge. Someone that knows where to use a hot tack. Someone that can show you welding sequence to minimize warpage..

            These are fast and easy to learn lessons and your boat would be all the better for it. The cost of having an experience worker show you the way would more than be paid back in safety, time and quality of workmanship.

            I advise you to suit personal preferences. Remember you are building your boat not a monument to a boat designer. The value in the boat is the joy you will have from the building and time spent on the water.
            I wish you luck on your project


            Lon








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          • jkohnen@boat-links.com
            You could cut the parts for a metal hull and get everything set up, then hire a welder for the assembly. You might still save money over plywood, glass and
            Message 5 of 14 , Mar 4, 2004
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              You could cut the parts for a metal hull and get everything set up, then
              hire a welder for the assembly. You might still save money over plywood,
              glass and epoxy. Once the hull was welded up, you could do the cabin and
              interior in wood.

              The steel scow in Sucher is only 22' long, and Huckleberry Finn is much
              larger than Rockin Chair at 50'. The Sucher scantlings are probably closer
              to what you'd need for Rocking Chair, which isn't really very heavily built.
              You don't want to make the hull too heavy, or you won't have the capacity
              for all those luxuries in the living spaces. <g> A little simple geometry
              can give you an idea of Rocking Chair's designed displacement.

              On Wed, 03 Mar 2004 22:54:28 -0000, Alan T wrote:
              > All these points I welcome and accept. The advantages of a metal
              > hull have been gaining ground in the back of my mind against the
              > disadvantage of not being able to weld at present. My idea at the
              > moment is to purchase the study plans of "Huckleberry Finn" along
              > with the full plans of "Rocking Chair", in the hope that they will
              > give an insight to the Atkins approach to construction in metal. I
              > have noted that the Atkins (including Pat) place great importance on
              > their designs not being changed too much. Fair enough! I guess
              > there's always a temptation to tinker, but hopefully compatible and
              > restrained tinkering will be OK.
              > I imagine that the pleasure of building and owning a recogniseably
              > classic boat (even if it's "only" a barge) could well be even
              > greater than any pleasure derived from excessivly altering an
              > established design to suit personal "preferences".

              --
              John <jkohnen@...>
              http://www.boat-links.com/
              Show me a man who has enjoyed his school days and I'll show you a
              bully and a bore. <Robert Morley>
            • Sal's Dad
              ... interior in wood. ... This would be my preferred approach. A couple years ago I did a trial boat in aluminum plate - a Bolger Teal dory. I cut out the
              Message 6 of 14 , Mar 5, 2004
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                >You could cut the parts for a metal hull and get everything set up, then
                >hire a welder for the assembly. You might still save money over plywood,
                >glass and epoxy. Once the hull was welded up, you could do the cabin >and
                interior in wood.
                >

                This would be my preferred approach. A couple years ago I did a trial boat
                in aluminum plate - a Bolger Teal dory. I cut out the parts with a
                cordless circular saw (ear protection is a good idea, and wear socks!) and
                brought the parts to a local welder. We re-assembled it over plywood
                "frames" and he welded the seams.

                The boat is heavy (1/8 aluminum weighs about the same as 3/4 ply) ugly (no
                paint - ever!) and indestructible.

                Now I'd feel comfortable building a bigger aluminum boat - Rescue Minor sure
                looks good to me... maybe with freshwater cooling - tubing welded to the
                INSIDE of the hull, so the whole hull is part of the cooling system . The
                tubing would double as stiffening for the thin plates, and be connected to
                the engine by rubber hose.
              • alan terry
                ... up, then ... plywood, ... cabin and ... Yes, sounds pretty good to me. From what I ve learned in the first few hours of my crash course in aluminum
                Message 7 of 14 , Mar 5, 2004
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                  --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, jkohnen@b... wrote:
                  > You could cut the parts for a metal hull and get everything set
                  up, then
                  > hire a welder for the assembly. You might still save money over
                  plywood,
                  > glass and epoxy. Once the hull was welded up, you could do the
                  cabin and
                  > interior in wood.


                  Yes, sounds pretty good to me. From what I've learned in the first
                  few hours of my crash course in aluminum fabrication it's more akin
                  to wood construction than steel. Setup shouldn't be all that
                  difficult. How do you reckon it would work to do the cabin AND the
                  decks all in plywood/timber and use the aluminum for the hull sides
                  and bottom only ?? There's something a bit raw about aluminum decks.
                • alan terry
                  ... some advice ... I did. It s quite interesting, even if rather basic. Following up the talk about metal boats I came across BOATBUILDING WITH ALUMINUM by
                  Message 8 of 14 , Mar 6, 2004
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                    --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, craig o'donnell <dadadata@f...>
                    wrote:

                    > Harry Sucher's SIMPLIFIED BOATBUILDING/FLAT BOTTOM BOATS gives
                    some advice
                    > on equivalent construction for scow hulls. Try interlibrary loan

                    I did. It's quite interesting, even if rather basic. Following up
                    the talk about metal boats I came across BOATBUILDING WITH ALUMINUM
                    by Stephen F. Pollard at the local library. To my suprise, it's
                    aimed at the backyard builder and is very readable. There were
                    multiple copies on the shelves.

                    alanterry
                  • jkohnen@boat-links.com
                    Wooden decks on a metal hull has been done many times. You ve got to be careful at the joint between the deck and hull to make sure it s watertight. Any joint
                    Message 9 of 14 , Mar 11, 2004
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                      Wooden decks on a metal hull has been done many times. You've got to be
                      careful at the joint between the deck and hull to make sure it's watertight.
                      Any joint between metal and wood is going to be a potential rot spot, so
                      take precautions.

                      Even though I'm the one who brought up metal construction, I think if I was
                      building one of the houseboats, and it was going to live in the water, I'd
                      do it plank on frame. I like working with wood better than metal, and the
                      relatively thick wooden planking is a good insulator.

                      On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 03:32:25 -0000, Alan wrote:
                      > ...
                      > Yes, sounds pretty good to me. From what I've learned in the first
                      > few hours of my crash course in aluminum fabrication it's more akin
                      > to wood construction than steel. Setup shouldn't be all that
                      > difficult. How do you reckon it would work to do the cabin AND the
                      > decks all in plywood/timber and use the aluminum for the hull sides
                      > and bottom only ?? There's something a bit raw about aluminum decks.

                      --
                      John <jkohnen@...>
                      http://www.boat-links.com/
                      Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
                      Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. <Groucho Marx>
                    • lon wells
                      jkohnen@boat-links.com wrote: .... Even though I m the one who brought up metal construction, I think if I was building one of the houseboats, and it was going
                      Message 10 of 14 , Mar 11, 2004
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                        jkohnen@... wrote:
                        ...."Even though I'm the one who brought up metal construction, I think if I was building one of the houseboats, and it was going to live in the water, I'd do it plank on frame. I like working with wood better than metal, and the
                        relatively thick wooden planking is a good insulator."



                        Greetings

                        Another way would be to do a composite construction with steel frame and wood planking and decks. Legendary Yachts in Washougal Washington makes some very fine Yachts using this construction method.

                        http://www.legendaryyachts.com/composit_construction.htm

                        Lon




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                      • alan terry
                        ... I think if I was ... water, I d ... and the ... Coincidently I have returned to favouring wood construction --- after several days of infatuation with the
                        Message 11 of 14 , Mar 12, 2004
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                          --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, jkohnen@b... wrote:

                          I think if I was
                          > building one of the houseboats, and it was going to live in the
                          water, I'd
                          > do it plank on frame. I like working with wood better than metal,
                          and the
                          > relatively thick wooden planking is a good insulator.

                          Coincidently I have returned to favouring wood construction ---
                          after several days of infatuation with the idea of building in
                          aluminum. I discovered that, broadly speaking, the cost of materials
                          alone are similar for aluminum and for HIGH QUALITY timber plus
                          epoxy glassing.
                          For aluminum I would have to hire skilled labour, but not for
                          timber. And of course, I can make do with less than high quality
                          timber. Taking these factors into account the cost of timber is
                          about one half that of aluminum. More important, using aluminum
                          would have encouraged me to get more fancy and fussy than I want.
                          The original idea was to have a simple boat built to a workboat
                          standard, that could be finished in months, not years.
                          The construction I now have firmly in mind is epoxy glued plank
                          (18mm) on frame covered with a layer of plywood and then epoxy
                          glassed. From the inside the appearance would be like cold moulded
                          plank on frame (better resale value, better looking, etc.), but the
                          outside would have all the benefits of glass sheathing.
                          And I like working with wood best as well :)

                          Alan
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