286RE: [AtkinBoats] Re: Displacement for America Junior and Silver Heels
- Aug 10, 2004When dealing with the schooner rig, you need to think about where to save
weight. Depending on how you configure the rig, you need some displacement
to carry the ballast necessary to balance the rig. Cold molding would allow
you to put more ballast low, which, when you are talking about the schooner
rig, is imporant. you may want to work more on creating an unstayed rig, ala
Bolger, or at least a rig with lark's mouth joints in the spars, etc., to
keep the weight aloft down. I own a "Florence Oakland", and the original
builder built the masts solid, except for a 1/2" void in the middle. For
that rig, belive me, you want the displacement to carry as much ballast as
you can. If I can get ahead on the "list" for the boat, new spars will
definitely happen someday. And when the plans talk about inside ballast, it
should not be ignored; it is important. If trailering is a factor, think
about the inside ballast as water ballast; drain to trailer, fill it again
when you get there. I guess what I'm getting at here is that hull shape
determines displacement; simply saving the thousand in the hull isn't going
to work. However, if you can sae half the weight in the rig, and use water
ballast, now you're talkin'.
From: holzboat [mailto:holzboat@...]
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 5:13 AM
Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: Displacement for America Junior and Silver Heels
The 7000 lbs. is strictly a guess on my part, I could easily be off
by 1000 lbs. either way. Cold molding would certainly save some
weight. If you are serious talk to a yacht designer about working up
scantlings for cold molded construction and displacement figures.
Someone on the WoodenBoat forum built an Atkin design several years
ago. He had a new sail plan drawn by Jay Benford who had apprenticed
with John Atkin. He might be worth talking to as I would think he'd
be pretty familiar with their work. The boat was named Christina
Grant if you want to look it up on that forum.
--- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "chriskottaridis" <chrisk@q...>
> Thanks for looking into it. I want to be able to move it fromthe
> one reservoir to another a couple of times during the season.
> The reservoirs here are pretty small, so seven months or so
> at the same location gets a bit old. I would like moving it
> to not be any bigger of a production then is necessary.
> The 7000 lbs puts it right at the limit of my towing capability.
> I may not be able to get that into the mountains without
> upgrading my tow vehicle, which would be more expense.
> I was hoping to stay under 6000 lbs, which would have put it at
> more then 33% ballast to displacement. I wouldn't mind cold-molding
> it to make it lighter and reduce ballast and sail area
> proportionately, but I certainly am not qualified to make that
> kind of a change.
> Again, thanks for the info.
> Chris Kottaridis (chrisk@q...)
> --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "holzboat" <holzboat@a...> wrote:
> > There doesn't seem to be displacement figures given for many of
> > Atkin's designs. I looked through several of the Ideal Seriesbooks
> > with no results. I've looked through several other designersplans
> > for similar sized boats and am going to guess that 7000 lbs. wouldHeels".
> > a reasonable number to work with.
> > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "holzboat" <holzboat@a...>
> > > The displacemant is not mentioned in the article about "Live
> > Yankee"
> > > or in the plans published for "America Junior" or "Silver
> > > haven't yet found the first article I mentioned about "Siver
> > > but if it has the displacement I'll post here when I find it.
> > foryour
> > > trailering, I think that depends on what your definition of a
> > > trailerable boat is. You won't be towing one of these behind
> > > Honda. A 3/4 or 1 ton pickup could certainly handle one ofthese
> > butto
> > > I would think the complexity of the rig alone would preclude
> > > to daysail one of these designs from a trailer. Hauling at the
> > > begining and end of the season would not be much of a problem.
> > >
> > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "chriskottaridis"
> > > wrote:
> > > > Does the article mention what the displacment is ?
> > > >
> > > > The synopsis on the atkinboatplans web site says 1500 outside
> > > > lead ballast and another 600 lbs. of inside ballast compared
> > > > America Junior's 1000 lbs outside ballast and 500 insidemuch
> > > >
> > > > If one or both of these is too heavy for me to trailer with my
> > > > own truck I'd like to know that before I start dreaming too
> > > > about it. Also, the general rule is displacement guidesoverall
> > > > cost rather then length alone, so knowing the totaldisplacement
> > > > is handy to know.Junior".
> > > >
> > > > Chris Kottaridis (chrisk@q...)
> > > >
> > > > P.S. Apparently my domain name expired, it may take a few days
> > > > get the domain name back on-line in case anyone may have
> > > > tried to email me directly.
> > > > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "holzboat" <holzboat@a...>
> > wrote:
> > > > > The original design for the schooner version of Silver Heels
> > > > > named "Live Yankee" and has the same rig as "America
> > > There<holzboat@a...>
> > > > > is a write-up in the January 1959 issue of "BOATS" magazine,
> > > > 52.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "holzboat"
> > > wrote:originaly
> > > > > > I believe that Silver Heels was originaly designed as a
> > > schooner.
> > > > I
> > > > > > can't recall exactly where I read this but it was written
> > > > > William
> > > > > > Atkin, perhaps in the Motor Boating issue that it
> > > > > appearedAmercia
> > > > > > in. I also had the opportunity to sail a schooner rigged
> > Silver
> > > > > Heels
> > > > > > several times about 25 years ago and was quite impressed
> > > how
> > > > > > well she sailed.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Kottaridis"
> > > > <chrisk@q...>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > Anyone know the overall displacement for America Junior
> > > > > Silver
> > > > > > Heels?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It seems Silver Heels is a round bottom version of
> > > > JuniorNo flaming, cursing, politics, religion or public mopery. Please be
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > has the same length, is slightly narrower and seems to
> > a
> > > > bit
> > > > > > more
> > > > > > > balast. It's a ketch rig of more or less same sail size
> > > > > Amercia
> > > > > > Junior.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Also, any opinions or comments about putting America
> > Junior's
> > > > > > Schooner rig
> > > > > > > on Silver Heel's round bottom hull ?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Chris Kottaridis (chrisk@q...)
polite. The current Atkin boat plans catalog is online at
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