Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

2390Re: Thistle and raised deck

Expand Messages
  • air_2_fly
    Aug 8, 2009
      I found "Colin Archer and the Seaworthy Double Ender" for a much cheaper price than that one on Amazon. It's being shipped to me now. After I read the description of the contents, I decided that this book needs to be on my bookshelf as reference material. Thanks for your invitation to read your book, though! From what I have seen so far, this boat is a ground breaking design.

      I found a link to the naval museum that has the Vito Dumas boat:
      http://www.welcomeargentina.com/paseos/el_mar_en_miniatura/index_i.html

      There is also video on www.youtube.com about Dumas and Knox-Johnson.

      This website was a good one, too:
      http://home.online.no/~jeppejul/

      He has a link for his english pages.

      After seeing the pictures of this Colin Archer for sale:
      http://www.rightboat.com/Colin-Archer-Double-Ender/boat-12027989/

      I think I could have a skylight or two in the center of a flush deck of a smaller boat. This link will not last if the boat sells, so I made copies of the pictures. Very nice boat. I'm getting some good ideas.

      These double ended boats are really something.


      --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Blanchard <kd0dvh@...> wrote:
      >
      > Colin Archer and the Seaworthy Double ender by John Leathers. Only 1 copy on
      > amazon and the price is painful. Let me know if you want to borrow mine.
      > Also Alone Through the Roaring Fourties by Vito Dumas (on his 32' ketch).
      > Don't forget Wm. Atkins book too. I have not read Robert Knox-Johnson except
      > for his perspectives on heaving to, but there is video footage of his Eric
      > showing great performance on his round the globe win. He did broach, BTW and
      > only while running bare poles. I don't think that would have been a problem
      > had he hove to, but he was of course, in a race to win.
      > On 8/6/09, air_2_fly <air_2_fly@...> wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Patrick.
      > >
      > > I'll look for the Colin Archer book. I don't have plans for anything yet.
      > > I'm still asking questions and looking around. I am going to build from
      > > plans. I never used GPS, Loran, etc. in my navigation. I have had someone
      > > using a GPS next to me checking my course for themselves, but the difference
      > > was neglible. At least there is something I can do right. The GPS worked
      > > half of the time. My chart or compass has never broke.
      > >
      > > Thank you again for the information!
      > >
      > > Allen
      > >
      > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com <AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com>, Patrick
      > > Blanchard <kd0dvh@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Allen,
      > > >
      > > > The book about Colin Archer and the double ender is expensive but worth
      > > the
      > > > read. It will probably validate what you are thinking you want from your
      > > > boat. Any other reference to the double ender fails, IMO. The drawings
      > > might
      > > > even help you rearrange the interior to you liking. Personally I like
      > > > Netter's layout the best.
      > > >
      > > > Demas, and Knox-Johnson - Demas is by far my favorite and sailed an
      > > > Argentinian design along Archer (and after Eric's lines were published).
      > > >
      > > > All double enders are not the same. Anyone can point the stern; it takes
      > > a
      > > > certain gift and experience to do it right for a 32' boat, as did Wm.
      > > > Atkins. You won't find reference to nauseating hobby horsing with either
      > > the
      > > > Eric or Thistle or Dragon.
      > > >
      > > > It took me 6 months of lofting the Lynaes dinghy from scaled lines before
      > > I
      > > > realized what the tremendous loss of life at sea, the Northern sea
      > > > shipbuilders, Archer, and Wm Atkins have given us. The importance is
      > > easily
      > > > forgotton in this 'modern' day. But bear in mind my problematic bias -
      > > the
      > > > other day after sighting Arcturus, Vega, Formalhaut, and the moon @ 28
      > > > degrees north I told my children "who needs GPS when we have sextants."
      > > We
      > > > laughed. But it was said not all in jest.
      > > >
      > > > My 1968 Eric is under restoration, and in 5 years or so will be ready for
      > > > another 40 years of sea. I am the second owner. While sitting comfortably
      > > in
      > > > the cabin, once I became aware that Atkins shrank Archer's design
      > > probably
      > > > as small as realistically possible so as to not make it too cramped for
      > > long
      > > > term cruising while maintaining all that Archer conveyed to the field of
      > > > naval architechture.
      > > >
      > > > Probably the only practical difference between us is you stand 1/2 foot
      > > > taller than I. Philosophically, our view towards the sea and how to live
      > > on
      > > > it is lock-step. Even your first name is my middle! If that is indeed
      > > > correct, you need not look any farther than Eric/Thistle/Dragon. Same
      > > boats
      > > > with minor changes and all safe changes. I was lucky to find an Eric but
      > > > would be very content with any of the three. In fact I will be rigging my
      > > > Eric with the Dragon's gaff (thank you Pat Atkins for helping sort this
      > > out
      > > > for me).
      > > >
      > > > You have Fram, a Thistle? You are building from plans?
      > > >
      > > > If indeed building, I am planning a full loft of the Eric because I just
      > > > like to do that sort of thing. Also if my Eric is destroyed, I will be
      > > ready
      > > > for another build. You may have a copy of the loft (anyone for that
      > > matter)
      > > > as long as Mrs. Atkins gives the OK. The original will be on mylar rolls,
      > > > scanned and printable on paper, just as I did w/ the Lynaes dinghy. It
      > > would
      > > > not be ready until this time next year.
      > > >
      > > > Regards and best of luck with your endeavours,
      > > > Patrick
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > On 8/6/09, air_2_fly <air_2_fly@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > Hi Patrick,
      > > > >
      > > > > Fram is larger and may have enough room inside. I stand six feet and
      > > would
      > > > > like to build something that could become a live aboard in the future.
      > > I've
      > > > > had smaller living space in the past, but would like to get headroom.
      > > Flush
      > > > > deck, too, is the way to go for me I think. I've seen Colin Archer
      > > types
      > > > > with flush decks on the internet that look roomy inside. These designs
      > > are
      > > > > very nice.
      > > > >
      > > > > Another website had a thread going that double ended boats with sharper
      > > > > ends ride like a hobby horse in certain conditions. Maybe that was
      > > someone
      > > > > with experience with a much different design. Would this be true of the
      > > > > Atkin's double ended designs? I've read that these boats (Colin Archer
      > > type)
      > > > > are the ultimate if you want to go to sea and manage well. I have heard
      > > good
      > > > > things about them. I'm not that into speed, it's just how I get there
      > > that
      > > > > matters. I didn't want to get too big of a design. My goal is to get
      > > > > something for one person to build, sail, and maintain (hopefully not
      > > too
      > > > > expensive after it is built).
      > > > >
      > > > > Allen
      > > > >
      > > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com <AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com><AtkinBoats%
      > > 40yahoogroups.com>, Patrick
      > > > > Blanchard <kd0dvh@> wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > you are welcome. Just a few weeks ago Lynn Pardey answered my email
      > > > > > about the flush deck aft.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > "After 3 decades of incredible sailing with the flush deck aft, would
      > > > > > you have it in your next boat?"
      > > > > >
      > > > > > "...yes...At first I was skeptical..." "...Larry framed in the
      > > > > > footwell just in case it didn't work, and could later remove the
      > > > > > lazarette if needed and place a footwell as Hess designed. It has
      > > > > > worked well and I still love it..."
      > > > > >
      > > > > > If possible, sit in either an Eric or Thistle's forc'sl - it is what
      > > > > > you will have aft without the footwell.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > regards,
      > > > > > patrick
      > > > > >
      > > > > > On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 10:55 PM, air_2_fly<air_2_fly@> wrote:
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Thanks for your post. I like the idea of a flush aft deck! Thanks
      > > > > again.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com <AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com><AtkinBoats%
      > > 40yahoogroups.com>,
      > > > > Patrick Blanchard <kd0dvh@> wrote:
      > > > > > >>
      > > > > > >> The Thistle is probably as high a freeboard as could be safely
      > > > > > >> designed so as to maintain seaworthiness, IMO but you already know
      > > > > > >> that. Center of buoyancy will be higher of course, and quite
      > > tender to
      > > > > > >> a gust. This would mean a wet boat and one prone to broaching.
      > > > > > >> Thistle's deck is already 2" higher than Eric (my boat) and is the
      > > > > > >> only practical difference in lines. Perhaps opting for larger and
      > > more
      > > > > > >> openness with hatches for those times you need a good stretch,
      > > keeping
      > > > > > >> the lines unchanged. Adding a hatch perhaps?
      > > > > > >>
      > > > > > >> Although not an extension of standing height, you might consider
      > > doing
      > > > > > >> w/o the footwell, keeping aft deck flush for more interior
      > > storage.
      > > > > > >> Personally I would not consider this modification detrimental to
      > > > > > >> performance; less chance for a pooped deck and proven safe
      > > > > > >> modification on the Pardey's Hess cutter Taliesin.
      > > > > > >>
      > > > > > >> regards,
      > > > > > >> Patrick
      > > > > > >>
      > > > > > >>
      > > > > > >> On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 1:58 PM, air_2_fly<air_2_fly@> wrote:
      > > > > > >> >
      > > > > > >> >
      > > > > > >> > I can understand that problems could result in changing a
      > > design. Is
      > > > > > >> > there a
      > > > > > >> > way to raise the deck height of Thistle to give six feet (and
      > > maybe
      > > > > one
      > > > > > >> > or
      > > > > > >> > two inches more) interior height and keeping it a flush deck
      > > without
      > > > > > >> > going
      > > > > > >> > to a bigger boat?
      > > > > > >> >
      > > > > > >> >
      > > > > > >>
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • Show all 14 messages in this topic