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2386Re: [AtkinBoats] Re: Thistle and raised deck

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  • Patrick Blanchard
    Aug 6, 2009
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      Allen,

      The book about Colin Archer and the double ender is expensive but worth the
      read. It will probably validate what you are thinking you want from your
      boat. Any other reference to the double ender fails, IMO. The drawings might
      even help you rearrange the interior to you liking. Personally I like
      Netter's layout the best.

      Demas, and Knox-Johnson - Demas is by far my favorite and sailed an
      Argentinian design along Archer (and after Eric's lines were published).

      All double enders are not the same. Anyone can point the stern; it takes a
      certain gift and experience to do it right for a 32' boat, as did Wm.
      Atkins. You won't find reference to nauseating hobby horsing with either the
      Eric or Thistle or Dragon.

      It took me 6 months of lofting the Lynaes dinghy from scaled lines before I
      realized what the tremendous loss of life at sea, the Northern sea
      shipbuilders, Archer, and Wm Atkins have given us. The importance is easily
      forgotton in this 'modern' day. But bear in mind my problematic bias - the
      other day after sighting Arcturus, Vega, Formalhaut, and the moon @ 28
      degrees north I told my children "who needs GPS when we have sextants." We
      laughed. But it was said not all in jest.

      My 1968 Eric is under restoration, and in 5 years or so will be ready for
      another 40 years of sea. I am the second owner. While sitting comfortably in
      the cabin, once I became aware that Atkins shrank Archer's design probably
      as small as realistically possible so as to not make it too cramped for long
      term cruising while maintaining all that Archer conveyed to the field of
      naval architechture.

      Probably the only practical difference between us is you stand 1/2 foot
      taller than I. Philosophically, our view towards the sea and how to live on
      it is lock-step. Even your first name is my middle! If that is indeed
      correct, you need not look any farther than Eric/Thistle/Dragon. Same boats
      with minor changes and all safe changes. I was lucky to find an Eric but
      would be very content with any of the three. In fact I will be rigging my
      Eric with the Dragon's gaff (thank you Pat Atkins for helping sort this out
      for me).

      You have Fram, a Thistle? You are building from plans?

      If indeed building, I am planning a full loft of the Eric because I just
      like to do that sort of thing. Also if my Eric is destroyed, I will be ready
      for another build. You may have a copy of the loft (anyone for that matter)
      as long as Mrs. Atkins gives the OK. The original will be on mylar rolls,
      scanned and printable on paper, just as I did w/ the Lynaes dinghy. It would
      not be ready until this time next year.

      Regards and best of luck with your endeavours,
      Patrick


      On 8/6/09, air_2_fly <air_2_fly@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      > Hi Patrick,
      >
      > Fram is larger and may have enough room inside. I stand six feet and would
      > like to build something that could become a live aboard in the future. I've
      > had smaller living space in the past, but would like to get headroom. Flush
      > deck, too, is the way to go for me I think. I've seen Colin Archer types
      > with flush decks on the internet that look roomy inside. These designs are
      > very nice.
      >
      > Another website had a thread going that double ended boats with sharper
      > ends ride like a hobby horse in certain conditions. Maybe that was someone
      > with experience with a much different design. Would this be true of the
      > Atkin's double ended designs? I've read that these boats (Colin Archer type)
      > are the ultimate if you want to go to sea and manage well. I have heard good
      > things about them. I'm not that into speed, it's just how I get there that
      > matters. I didn't want to get too big of a design. My goal is to get
      > something for one person to build, sail, and maintain (hopefully not too
      > expensive after it is built).
      >
      > Allen
      >
      > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com <AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com>, Patrick
      > Blanchard <kd0dvh@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > you are welcome. Just a few weeks ago Lynn Pardey answered my email
      > > about the flush deck aft.
      > >
      > > "After 3 decades of incredible sailing with the flush deck aft, would
      > > you have it in your next boat?"
      > >
      > > "...yes...At first I was skeptical..." "...Larry framed in the
      > > footwell just in case it didn't work, and could later remove the
      > > lazarette if needed and place a footwell as Hess designed. It has
      > > worked well and I still love it..."
      > >
      > > If possible, sit in either an Eric or Thistle's forc'sl - it is what
      > > you will have aft without the footwell.
      > >
      > > regards,
      > > patrick
      > >
      > > On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 10:55 PM, air_2_fly<air_2_fly@...> wrote:
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Thanks for your post. I like the idea of a flush aft deck! Thanks
      > again.
      > > >
      > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com <AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com>,
      > Patrick Blanchard <kd0dvh@> wrote:
      > > >>
      > > >> The Thistle is probably as high a freeboard as could be safely
      > > >> designed so as to maintain seaworthiness, IMO but you already know
      > > >> that. Center of buoyancy will be higher of course, and quite tender to
      > > >> a gust. This would mean a wet boat and one prone to broaching.
      > > >> Thistle's deck is already 2" higher than Eric (my boat) and is the
      > > >> only practical difference in lines. Perhaps opting for larger and more
      > > >> openness with hatches for those times you need a good stretch, keeping
      > > >> the lines unchanged. Adding a hatch perhaps?
      > > >>
      > > >> Although not an extension of standing height, you might consider doing
      > > >> w/o the footwell, keeping aft deck flush for more interior storage.
      > > >> Personally I would not consider this modification detrimental to
      > > >> performance; less chance for a pooped deck and proven safe
      > > >> modification on the Pardey's Hess cutter Taliesin.
      > > >>
      > > >> regards,
      > > >> Patrick
      > > >>
      > > >>
      > > >> On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 1:58 PM, air_2_fly<air_2_fly@> wrote:
      > > >> >
      > > >> >
      > > >> > I can understand that problems could result in changing a design. Is
      > > >> > there a
      > > >> > way to raise the deck height of Thistle to give six feet (and maybe
      > one
      > > >> > or
      > > >> > two inches more) interior height and keeping it a flush deck without
      > > >> > going
      > > >> > to a bigger boat?
      > > >> >
      > > >> >
      > > >>
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >


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