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Re: [Ashkenazi-Q] How to Tell if You Are A Jewish--a non-Q view

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  • NADENE GOLDFOOT
    Debra, I don t mind your commenting at all. It was most interesting. I expected to find my father s line to be a Jewish J and was amazed that it turned out
    Message 1 of 3 , Sep 11, 2009
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      Debra,
      I don't mind your commenting at all.  It was most interesting.  I expected to find my father's line to be a Jewish J and was amazed that it turned out to be Q1b instead.  That's a group that makes up only 5% of our Jewish population.  It stemmed from Mongolia, Siberia and a part of Turkey.  What's nice is to have found out that our small group was a part of the Royal Ashina Dynasty, so it's a pleasant surprise to see royalty show up. 
       
      Our dna is showing what has happened to our ancestors historically after leaving the Israeli area.  Maybe these people who find they have Jewish dna will be interested enough to read about what happened during the period of becoming what they are now. 
       
      I'm Jewish, but had married a doctor, surname Henwood,  who wasn't Jewish.  In doing his genealogy, I found that Hen was the surname of a of a prominent Spanish family descended from Judah Ben Barzilai, and they lived mainly at Barcelona from 13th through 16th century, and used Hen as a surname.  The wood ending could be from a Dutch family that was Jewish.  They were Hays but were related to Wood.  I was thinking that they could have used the Spanish custom of joining the male and female surnames that I have seen in modern day Mexicans here, thus creating Henwood.  Or--it could be just the name of a sign of a wooden hen in front of their home in England.  Many in England, where the family was from, were illiterate and used such things for designating people before surnames were invented.  Then it became the surname.  Now we're awaiting the results of the dna test.  I can't wait to see what it will be with these two possibilities in mind.  Whatever, the family was Episcopalian and not Jewish, at least back in 1827 till today. 
       
      Nadene
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: dkbk@...
      Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 8:21 AM
      Subject: [Ashkenazi-Q] How to Tell if You Are A Jewish--a non-Q view

       

      I am a lurker on this list and not even a Q...but I just had to pipe up here, reading all the posts about being Jewish and not being Jewish.
       
      I am an active genetic genealogist with Jewish roots.   I can tell you that the only thing living people can speak to is the religious/ethnic heritage they currently have or that their family tradition has had as far back as they can trace.  After that, you must sit back with an open mind and let the DNA speak to you.
       
      And keep in mind that the DNA is only speaking to you about one line at a time, and we are made up of dozens of genetic lines that have intertwined over the centuries.
       
      To wit, I have a Jewish J2a line where 80% of the matches (around 104 folks total) are Jews with a Cohanim tradition... even though many of those matches have big genetic distances (meaning common ancestors 500, 1000, 1500 years ago).  Thus it seems fairly certain that the common ancestor to the whole gang was a Jewish dude, almost certainly a priest, living ca 500 BC to 300 AD.
       
      The result?  Here is a small sampling of the match-mates in the group who are coming to terms with the fact that their ancient ancestry is indeed Jewish:
       
      1) A Syrian Christian from Kerala, India who traces his Christian line back to the early 1700s.
       
      2) An Italian Catholic who traces his line in Italy into the early 1300s
       
      3) A Mexican Catholic who traces his line to16th century Spain
       
      4) A German Lutheran who traces his line to 16th century Bavaria.
       
      5) A Saudi Muslim who traces his line to 14th century Libya
       
      The moral of the story is simply that historically, we weren't always what we are in modern times.  And it goes both ways.  The DNA on another line told me my "Ashkenazi Jewish peeps" didn't come from the middle east at all, but from Ukrainian peasant stock.
       
      Ok, pardon the intrusion.  I'll crawl back into my cave now. (-;
       
      Debra Katz
      Los Altos CA USA

    • BJMVA
      Debra, Thank you for lurking in the shadows. I know of no one in my Marlow line that was Jewish. I have always been told they mostly belonged to the
      Message 2 of 3 , Sep 11, 2009
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        Debra,
        Thank you for lurking in the shadows.  I know of no one in my Marlow line that was Jewish.  I have always been told they mostly belonged to the Christian Church and were Scot/Irish.  The sad fact was that no male in the family ever cared what their background was so I have no information.  I only know that my ggrandfather arrived in MS in 1850 from KY.  Now, we do not match any Marlow in the data base.  We match Huff/Hough/Haff/Riley.  So lets throw a kink into the search.  OK, we are a good match to the Hoff's from the Netherlands.  I somewhat know the beginning and the end, it's the middle that I don't know.  I am seeking any and all information that I can study that will tell me what I am seeing when I look at the DNA results.  I am open to what ever the DNA tells me.  I would like to have some resources that I could begin to read to understand the details coming out of the study.  I certainly see the definite connection to Hoff.  I am so fortunate that that info had already been researched.  I'm just trying to make some sense of the DNA. I am now just googling anything I can to try to teach myself something!
        BJ
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 1:25 PM
        Subject: Re: [Ashkenazi-Q] How to Tell if You Are A Jewish--a non-Q view

        Debra,
        I don't mind your commenting at all.  It was most interesting.  I expected to find my father's line to be a Jewish J and was amazed that it turned out to be Q1b instead.  That's a group that makes up only 5% of our Jewish population.  It stemmed from Mongolia, Siberia and a part of Turkey.  What's nice is to have found out that our small group was a part of the Royal Ashina Dynasty, so it's a pleasant surprise to see royalty show up. 
         
        Our dna is showing what has happened to our ancestors historically after leaving the Israeli area.  Maybe these people who find they have Jewish dna will be interested enough to read about what happened during the period of becoming what they are now. 
         
        I'm Jewish, but had married a doctor, surname Henwood,  who wasn't Jewish.  In doing his genealogy, I found that Hen was the surname of a of a prominent Spanish family descended from Judah Ben Barzilai, and they lived mainly at Barcelona from 13th through 16th century, and used Hen as a surname.  The wood ending could be from a Dutch family that was Jewish.  They were Hays but were related to Wood.  I was thinking that they could have used the Spanish custom of joining the male and female surnames that I have seen in modern day Mexicans here, thus creating Henwood.  Or--it could be just the name of a sign of a wooden hen in front of their home in England.  Many in England, where the family was from, were illiterate and used such things for designating people before surnames were invented.  Then it became the surname.  Now we're awaiting the results of the dna test.  I can't wait to see what it will be with these two possibilities in mind.  Whatever, the family was Episcopalian and not Jewish, at least back in 1827 till today. 
         
        Nadene
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: dkbk@...
        Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 8:21 AM
        Subject: [Ashkenazi-Q] How to Tell if You Are A Jewish--a non-Q view

         

        I am a lurker on this list and not even a Q...but I just had to pipe up here, reading all the posts about being Jewish and not being Jewish.
         
        I am an active genetic genealogist with Jewish roots.   I can tell you that the only thing living people can speak to is the religious/ethnic heritage they currently have or that their family tradition has had as far back as they can trace.  After that, you must sit back with an open mind and let the DNA speak to you.
         
        And keep in mind that the DNA is only speaking to you about one line at a time, and we are made up of dozens of genetic lines that have intertwined over the centuries.
         
        To wit, I have a Jewish J2a line where 80% of the matches (around 104 folks total) are Jews with a Cohanim tradition... even though many of those matches have big genetic distances (meaning common ancestors 500, 1000, 1500 years ago).  Thus it seems fairly certain that the common ancestor to the whole gang was a Jewish dude, almost certainly a priest, living ca 500 BC to 300 AD.
         
        The result?  Here is a small sampling of the match-mates in the group who are coming to terms with the fact that their ancient ancestry is indeed Jewish:
         
        1) A Syrian Christian from Kerala, India who traces his Christian line back to the early 1700s.
         
        2) An Italian Catholic who traces his line in Italy into the early 1300s
         
        3) A Mexican Catholic who traces his line to16th century Spain
         
        4) A German Lutheran who traces his line to 16th century Bavaria.
         
        5) A Saudi Muslim who traces his line to 14th century Libya
         
        The moral of the story is simply that historically, we weren't always what we are in modern times.  And it goes both ways.  The DNA on another line told me my "Ashkenazi Jewish peeps" didn't come from the middle east at all, but from Ukrainian peasant stock.
         
        Ok, pardon the intrusion.  I'll crawl back into my cave now. (-;
         
        Debra Katz
        Los Altos CA USA

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