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A Father's Day Yarn That Answers Key Q1b Questions Including Alessandro's

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  • Dave Howard
    Tatteleh, tatteleh when will we ever get a brother? Rachel and Sarah asked their father a few days after he had returned to his 10th century home in the town
    Message 1 of 4 , Jun 21, 2009
      "Tatteleh, tatteleh when will we ever get a brother?" Rachel and Sarah
      asked their father a few days after he had returned to his 10th century
      home in the town of Nogres (Bourg de St. Gilles) on the banks of the
      Rhone River in the south of France.

      Itzhak ben Shmuel was resting from recent visits to Jewish shtetles in
      the region trading his amazing far eastern merchandise. He thought to
      himself he would love to have a son who could take charge of the family
      when he was gone on his long trips or could work with him in his
      business. He looked at his daughters who seemed to have turned into
      young women over night. He knew he and his wife were too old to be
      having babies. He kept looking at them, smiled, and shook his head.

      A few weeks later he and his brother Morduch ben Shmuel were off on
      another trip with their fellow Radanite trader-bankers along the "Silk
      Road" that took them through the Mediterranean across what is now the
      Suez canal down and up the coasts of Arabia and India and finally to
      China.

      One of the bright spots of their long journey was to stop at the port
      city of Karachi where they would visit and trade with their good friend,
      Ghansham Ghazanavi. While Ghansham was a Muslim and traded with many
      other Radanites he relished his close relationship with these two.

      Ghansham felt a closer to his Aryan relatives who had moved into the
      area about 200 years earlier than his indigenous ancestors. This made
      him feel a connection with lands to the west. He had no idea he had SNP
      M378 on his yDNA molecule.

      Ghansham's two sons Rawesh and Roham had joined the family business.
      They also had developed a good relationship with the affable Radanite
      brothers who stopped by every year or two. The young men made Itzhak and
      Morduch chuckle when to call them fetter (uncle), a word they learned
      from other Jewish traders.

      It was on the return of the current trip when Itzhak and Morduch were
      heading west that the two families once again had conducted favorable
      business. That evening they were all together in Ghazanavi home enjoying
      a sinful Sindhi snack of "took patata" when Rawesh and Roham brought up
      a topic they had wanted to discuss for some months. The two young men
      really wanted to go west and relocate to another part of the world. They
      felt this could be good for their father's business as well as the
      Radanites. They wanted to join Shmuel's sons on their return trip to
      Europe.

      Itzhak and Morduch both liked the young men. They said they would talk
      it over later that evening.

      They returned the next day and said yes to the proposal.

      As the entourage traveled west it was in Sicily when Itzhak fell ill
      from eating non-kosher seafood in a dish of linguine smothered with
      delicious marinara sauce. They decided that Morduch should go on and
      finish the trip while the two young men stayed on with Itzhak to care
      for him and help him with his business.

      After a few weeks only Rohan was attending his mentor. Rawesh had met
      and had fallen in love with Andrea Gibellina, a lovely Sicilian maiden
      whose father, Salvatore Gibellina, was Itzhak's major trading partner in
      Sicily. Rawesh loved everything about Sicily and felt he could operate a
      branch of the trading business right there with Signor Gibellina. When
      Itzhak and Roham left, Rawesh stayed behind.

      Rawesh was a great success and married his sweetheart.

      Roham felt bad about leaving his brother but he wanted to finish his
      travels to the west. He and Itzhak become such good friends that Itzhak
      invited Rohan to live in Itzhak's comfortable home. Roham proved to be a
      great help to Itzhak.

      A few months later and just after a successful trip to visit regional
      shtetles Roham spoke to his mentor and said that he would like to become
      Jewish.

      Itzhak was very pleased with Roham and arranged for him to study with
      the local Rabbi. Roham was an excellent student. He loved his new
      religion and went so far as to have himself circumcised. He studied
      Hebrew, had a bar mitzvah, and had been given a Hebrew name of Ruven.

      Itzhak noticed that Roham and his daughter Sarah had become very close
      friends. He was not surprised when Roham approached him and asked for
      Sarah's hand in marriage. On the other hand Itzhak's wife Ida almost
      plotzed when she first heard this idea. But Rohan was able to enchant
      her as well. Even the Rabbi gave his blessing to the union.

      Roham ben Ghansham and his wife Sarah lived a long happy life. They were
      blessed with a large family of sons. The neighbors and friends loved to
      visit their home at Hanukkah to eat the double fried potato dish that
      Rawesh called took patata.

      Meanwhile Rawesh and Andrea had children in Sicily. Their first child
      was a son and was born with beautiful blond hair. The family was
      thrilled. His parents named him Angelo but Andrea's father decided it
      was time Rawesh and Andrea took a more Italian sounding last name. With
      this said the family members in the room looked at little Angelo and the
      same name popped into several brains at the same time, Biondo (blond
      male).

      Rawesh and Andrea Biondo would be very proud of their bright and
      talented future many times great grandson Alessandro.

      The End

      Note: Even though they were brothers, Rawesh had a brand new mutation in
      one of his STRs which put him at a genetic distance of 1 from his
      brother Roham.

      Note: All the fathers in the story have a happy ending.
      I am solely responsible for this adult fairy tale.

      Dave
    • NADENE GOLDFOOT
      Okay, Dave. You ve got a good start. How about writing an epic like James Mitchener did with The Source ? This is terrific, and whether you decide it s for
      Message 2 of 4 , Jun 21, 2009
        Okay, Dave.  You've got a good start.  How about writing an epic like James Mitchener did with "The Source"?  This is terrific, and whether you decide it's for teen agers or adults, it's historical fiction, the best kind.  I love it.  With a background like ours, you'd never have a dull day in your book. 
         
        I just wrote something up for our Jewish Genealogical Society of Oregon's Shalshelit (monthly bulletin) about being a Jewish American Princess.  I may have mistakes in it, but I hope not.  I used stuff from you and Krupa to write it.  I've just been home from open heart surgery since the 15th, so may be a little dopey still.  I'll use that as an excuse for the next few years. 
         
         

        Discovering My Royal Roots Through DNA

        by Nadene Goldfoot

        6/21/2009

        I am a Royal Princess. I belong the the Ashina Royal Dynasty. It makes up only 5% of the entire Jewish population which amounts to about 1% or less of the world population, so I’m in a very small group of people. Through DNA at familytreedna in Houston, I’ve discovered my roots go back 1,000 years to one man who was a member of the Ashina Royal Dynasty of Turkey’s Altay Mountains. Now I can truly remark that I’m a J.A.P., or Jewish Americal Princess.We are Q1b in haplogroup dna-speak. This was done by testing my brother for our grandfather’s origins, and is only done with the male, called a Ydna test. Besides my brother, I had found a 2nd cousin of Stanley Goldfoot, another Goldfoot, thank goodness, working right in Houston, Texas having immigrated there from South Africa. I had already met Stanley in Jerusalem when I lived in Israel from 1980-1985. Stanley turned out to be the former Chief of Intelligence for the Stern Group, a fighting group of Jews helping Israel to become a state. Both my brother and the 2nd cousin were tested and both were found to be Q1b’s, so I’ve known we are related, but lacked a paper trail.

        The Chinese had the records about my group. The Ashina Turks were acting more as a noble or royal line which played the role of a political entity unifying various Turkic speaking tribes. It was also known as a Desert aristocracy and it was a ruling class of a number of central Asian empires, and eventually it became the ruling class or nobility known as khagans or emperors of the Khazarian Khaganate in the early middle ages in the year 656 AD after the collapse of the Gokturk empire under pressure from the resurgent Uyghurs. Then branches of the Ashina clan moved westward to Europe where they became the kaghans of the Khazars. From there it was easy to get into Russia. My grandfather, I presume, was from Lithuania and Ashkenazi, and to find that my roots lie in Turkey was quite a surprise.

        What happened was that the ruling class of the Khazarian Empire (Khagan Bulan and 4,000 of his nobles, converted to Judaism in the 8th century AD. Originally they were people who were practicing Turkish shamanism. The head Khagan heard speakers of Christianity, Muslims and Jews speak and he chose Judasim. They did not force any conversion. It seems that only the ruling class of the Khazars became Jews. Abba Eban stated that it appears that the majority of the population remained either Christian or Moslem. I can take it then that being Jewish was a royal thing to be.

        You may remember that one of our past speakers was Kevin Alan Brook who wrote "The Jews of Khazaria." For some time we haven’t really been sure about whether or not our rare dna really came from Khazaria, but we have now come to this conclusion. We are all marked by a rare mutation called M378 and fit into a haplotype-a sequence of genetic markers-peculiar to us. Not surprising to me, we’re all a rather learned group. I’ve just gone for the 67 allele marker test and will receive the results around July 6th. We are likely to find that many of the 300 people so far discovered will easily be my 7th or 8th cousins, having an ancestor less than 300 years ago.

        The group is organized with several heads that have taken various aspects on as responsibilites.. So call me Princess, folks. You never know what you will discover through dna testing.

        I did some other writing today defending Israel in Letters to the Editor of the Oregonian newspaper (I belong to the Israel Advocacy Group here as I am also an Israeli) and sent this to my friend who also is a historian and writer and do you know what?  He wants to have his dna tested now.  That's so great.  Also, my cousin Sandra was over visiting, a daughter of my father's sister, a direct line of my father's mother, and she decided to have her mtdna tested.  It got her curiosity up.  We know about our grandfather but not the grandmother, so finally, I'll find out. 

        Think about continuing your father's day story.  You're on a roll and have already done some research of the period.  I love James Mitchener's historical novels.  Oh, I was going to tell you.  When I lived in Safed, the Northern Galilee from 81-85, I wrote plays and took the chapter of Mitchener's from The Source that is called "The Saintly Men of Safed" and wrote a play that we produced in Safed.  We were given a theater through the city, charged money, had real actors, the whole works.  I tell about it in my book, "Letters From Israel."  With the play, I added an ending not in his book.  That was great fun. 

        Nadene

         

         

         

         

        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 6:11 PM
        Subject: [Ashkenazi-Q] A Father's Day Yarn That Answers Key Q1b Questions Including Alessandro's

        "Tatteleh, tatteleh when will we ever get a brother?" Rachel and Sarah
        asked their father a few days after he had returned to his 10th century
        home in the town of Nogres (Bourg de St. Gilles) on the banks of the
        Rhone River in the south of France.

        Itzhak ben Shmuel was resting from recent visits to Jewish shtetles in
        the region trading his amazing far eastern merchandise. He thought to
        himself he would love to have a son who could take charge of the family
        when he was gone on his long trips or could work with him in his
        business. He looked at his daughters who seemed to have turned into
        young women over night. He knew he and his wife were too old to be
        having babies. He kept looking at them, smiled, and shook his head.

        A few weeks later he and his brother Morduch ben Shmuel were off on
        another trip with their fellow Radanite trader-bankers along the "Silk
        Road" that took them through the Mediterranean across what is now the
        Suez canal down and up the coasts of Arabia and India and finally to
        China.

        One of the bright spots of their long journey was to stop at the port
        city of Karachi where they would visit and trade with their good friend,
        Ghansham Ghazanavi. While Ghansham was a Muslim and traded with many
        other Radanites he relished his close relationship with these two.

        Ghansham felt a closer to his Aryan relatives who had moved into the
        area about 200 years earlier than his indigenous ancestors. This made
        him feel a connection with lands to the west. He had no idea he had SNP
        M378 on his yDNA molecule.

        Ghansham's two sons Rawesh and Roham had joined the family business.
        They also had developed a good relationship with the affable Radanite
        brothers who stopped by every year or two. The young men made Itzhak and
        Morduch chuckle when to call them fetter (uncle), a word they learned
        from other Jewish traders.

        It was on the return of the current trip when Itzhak and Morduch were
        heading west that the two families once again had conducted favorable
        business. That evening they were all together in Ghazanavi home enjoying
        a sinful Sindhi snack of "took patata" when Rawesh and Roham brought up
        a topic they had wanted to discuss for some months. The two young men
        really wanted to go west and relocate to another part of the world. They
        felt this could be good for their father's business as well as the
        Radanites. They wanted to join Shmuel's sons on their return trip to
        Europe.

        Itzhak and Morduch both liked the young men. They said they would talk
        it over later that evening.

        They returned the next day and said yes to the proposal.

        As the entourage traveled west it was in Sicily when Itzhak fell ill
        from eating non-kosher seafood in a dish of linguine smothered with
        delicious marinara sauce. They decided that Morduch should go on and
        finish the trip while the two young men stayed on with Itzhak to care
        for him and help him with his business.

        After a few weeks only Rohan was attending his mentor. Rawesh had met
        and had fallen in love with Andrea Gibellina, a lovely Sicilian maiden
        whose father, Salvatore Gibellina, was Itzhak's major trading partner in
        Sicily. Rawesh loved everything about Sicily and felt he could operate a
        branch of the trading business right there with Signor Gibellina. When
        Itzhak and Roham left, Rawesh stayed behind.

        Rawesh was a great success and married his sweetheart.

        Roham felt bad about leaving his brother but he wanted to finish his
        travels to the west. He and Itzhak become such good friends that Itzhak
        invited Rohan to live in Itzhak's comfortable home. Roham proved to be a
        great help to Itzhak.

        A few months later and just after a successful trip to visit regional
        shtetles Roham spoke to his mentor and said that he would like to become
        Jewish.

        Itzhak was very pleased with Roham and arranged for him to study with
        the local Rabbi. Roham was an excellent student. He loved his new
        religion and went so far as to have himself circumcised. He studied
        Hebrew, had a bar mitzvah, and had been given a Hebrew name of Ruven.

        Itzhak noticed that Roham and his daughter Sarah had become very close
        friends. He was not surprised when Roham approached him and asked for
        Sarah's hand in marriage. On the other hand Itzhak's wife Ida almost
        plotzed when she first heard this idea. But Rohan was able to enchant
        her as well. Even the Rabbi gave his blessing to the union.

        Roham ben Ghansham and his wife Sarah lived a long happy life. They were
        blessed with a large family of sons. The neighbors and friends loved to
        visit their home at Hanukkah to eat the double fried potato dish that
        Rawesh called took patata.

        Meanwhile Rawesh and Andrea had children in Sicily. Their first child
        was a son and was born with beautiful blond hair. The family was
        thrilled. His parents named him Angelo but Andrea's father decided it
        was time Rawesh and Andrea took a more Italian sounding last name. With
        this said the family members in the room looked at little Angelo and the
        same name popped into several brains at the same time, Biondo (blond
        male).

        Rawesh and Andrea Biondo would be very proud of their bright and
        talented future many times great grandson Alessandro.

        The End

        Note: Even though they were brothers, Rawesh had a brand new mutation in
        one of his STRs which put him at a genetic distance of 1 from his
        brother Roham.

        Note: All the fathers in the story have a happy ending.
        I am solely responsible for this adult fairy tale.

        Dave

      • Judy Graff-Fisher
        Dave, I really enjoyed this entirely plausible* story! *except for the marinara sauce.  I don t think they had marinara in the 10th century. Judy Graff Fisher
        Message 3 of 4 , Jun 28, 2009
          Dave, I really enjoyed this entirely plausible* story!
          *except for the marinara sauce.  I don't think they had marinara in the 10th century.
          Judy Graff Fisher

          --- On Sun, 6/21/09, Dave Howard <dshoward@...> wrote:

          From: Dave Howard <dshoward@...>
          Subject: [Ashkenazi-Q] A Father's Day Yarn That Answers Key Q1b Questions Including Alessandro's
          To: Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Sunday, June 21, 2009, 6:11 PM

          "Tatteleh, tatteleh when will we ever get a brother?" Rachel and Sarah
          asked their father a few days after he had returned to his 10th century
          home in the town of Nogres (Bourg de St. Gilles) on the banks of the
          Rhone River in the south of France.

          Itzhak ben Shmuel was resting from recent visits to Jewish shtetles in
          the region trading his amazing far eastern merchandise. He thought to
          himself he would love to have a son who could take charge of the family
          when he was gone on his long trips or could work with him in his
          business. He looked at his daughters who seemed to have turned into
          young women over night. He knew he and his wife were too old to be
          having babies. He kept looking at them, smiled, and shook his head.

          A few weeks later he and his brother Morduch ben Shmuel were off on
          another trip with their fellow Radanite trader-bankers along the "Silk
          Road" that took them through the Mediterranean across what is now the
          Suez canal down and up the coasts of Arabia and India and finally to
          China.

          One of the bright spots of their long journey was to stop at the port
          city of Karachi where they would visit and trade with their good friend,
          Ghansham Ghazanavi. While Ghansham was a Muslim and traded with many
          other Radanites he relished his close relationship with these two.

          Ghansham felt a closer to his Aryan relatives who had moved into the
          area about 200 years earlier than his indigenous ancestors. This made
          him feel a connection with lands to the west. He had no idea he had SNP
          M378 on his yDNA molecule.

          Ghansham's two sons Rawesh and Roham had joined the family business.
          They also had developed a good relationship with the affable Radanite
          brothers who stopped by every year or two. The young men made Itzhak and
          Morduch chuckle when to call them fetter (uncle), a word they learned
          from other Jewish traders.

          It was on the return of the current trip when Itzhak and Morduch were
          heading west that the two families once again had conducted favorable
          business. That evening they were all together in Ghazanavi home enjoying
          a sinful Sindhi snack of "took patata" when Rawesh and Roham brought up
          a topic they had wanted to discuss for some months. The two young men
          really wanted to go west and relocate to another part of the world. They
          felt this could be good for their father's business as well as the
          Radanites. They wanted to join Shmuel's sons on their return trip to
          Europe.

          Itzhak and Morduch both liked the young men. They said they would talk
          it over later that evening.

          They returned the next day and said yes to the proposal.

          As the entourage traveled west it was in Sicily when Itzhak fell ill
          from eating non-kosher seafood in a dish of linguine smothered with
          delicious marinara sauce. They decided that Morduch should go on and
          finish the trip while the two young men stayed on with Itzhak to care
          for him and help him with his business.

          After a few weeks only Rohan was attending his mentor. Rawesh had met
          and had fallen in love with Andrea Gibellina, a lovely Sicilian maiden
          whose father, Salvatore Gibellina, was Itzhak's major trading partner in
          Sicily. Rawesh loved everything about Sicily and felt he could operate a
          branch of the trading business right there with Signor Gibellina. When
          Itzhak and Roham left, Rawesh stayed behind.

          Rawesh was a great success and married his sweetheart.

          Roham felt bad about leaving his brother but he wanted to finish his
          travels to the west. He and Itzhak become such good friends that Itzhak
          invited Rohan to live in Itzhak's comfortable home. Roham proved to be a
          great help to Itzhak.

          A few months later and just after a successful trip to visit regional
          shtetles Roham spoke to his mentor and said that he would like to become
          Jewish.

          Itzhak was very pleased with Roham and arranged for him to study with
          the local Rabbi. Roham was an excellent student. He loved his new
          religion and went so far as to have himself circumcised. He studied
          Hebrew, had a bar mitzvah, and had been given a Hebrew name of Ruven.

          Itzhak noticed that Roham and his daughter Sarah had become very close
          friends. He was not surprised when Roham approached him and asked for
          Sarah's hand in marriage. On the other hand Itzhak's wife Ida almost
          plotzed when she first heard this idea. But Rohan was able to enchant
          her as well. Even the Rabbi gave his blessing to the union.

          Roham ben Ghansham and his wife Sarah lived a long happy life. They were
          blessed with a large family of sons. The neighbors and friends loved to
          visit their home at Hanukkah to eat the double fried potato dish that
          Rawesh called took patata.

          Meanwhile Rawesh and Andrea had children in Sicily. Their first child
          was a son and was born with beautiful blond hair. The family was
          thrilled. His parents named him Angelo but Andrea's father decided it
          was time Rawesh and Andrea took a more Italian sounding last name. With
          this said the family members in the room looked at little Angelo and the
          same name popped into several brains at the same time, Biondo (blond
          male).

          Rawesh and Andrea Biondo would be very proud of their bright and
          talented future many times great grandson Alessandro.

          The End

          Note: Even though they were brothers, Rawesh had a brand new mutation in
          one of his STRs which put him at a genetic distance of 1 from his
          brother Roham.

          Note: All the fathers in the story have a happy ending.
          I am solely responsible for this adult fairy tale.

          Dave

        • Rebekah Canada
          You are right there Judy. The tomato was a New World import. http://www.hort.wisc.edu/mastergardener/features/vegetables/tomatoes/tomorigin/tomato%20origin.htm
          Message 4 of 4 , Jun 29, 2009
            You are right there Judy. The tomato was a New World import. 


            BTW, if you can find them at a farmer's market, heritage tomatoes are wonderful. 

            Regards,
            Rebekah

            On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 8:50 PM, Judy Graff-Fisher <jgraff100@...> wrote:


            Dave, I really enjoyed this entirely plausible* story!
            *except for the marinara sauce.  I don't think they had marinara in the 10th century.
            Judy Graff Fisher

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