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New "Ashkenazi Q" result test with a couple of questions

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  • davepelter
    Hi, we just received my father s Y-DNA 37 test results over the weekend which placed us in the Q-M242 haplogroup. That said, can you please confirm the
    Message 1 of 6 , Jul 30, 2012
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      Hi, we just received my father's Y-DNA 37 test results over the weekend which placed us in the Q-M242 haplogroup. That said, can you please confirm the following assumptions after a couple days of research (sorry for the neophyte questions):

      1. Given our known Ashkenazi family history, would it be reasonable to assume that we likely reside into the L-245 sub-branch? After comparing our 'Q' result in the FTDNA DB to other profiles confirmed as 'Q1b1a', the figures appear so close that it is tempting to conclude we are Q1b1a. Is that a fair assumption?

      2. While I have read extensively about the theories on the Khazars being the "missing link" for any Ashkenazi Qs, is there more recent data (2010+) suggesting that the Q haplogroup may have emerged earlier from a different location, i.e. from the Middle East. I have seen a couple posts alluding to this, however, some academic researchers seem fairly convinced that the Khazars are the link (though their date may be getting stale).

      Thanks and feel free to email me directly if easier: pelter@hotmail(com)

      Regards,
      David Pelter
    • NADENE GOLDFOOT
      Hi David, Rebekah Canada is the authority in our group, but from what I ve checked out on our tree, your assumption should be correct as my brother is also
      Message 2 of 6 , Aug 16, 2012
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        Hi David,
        Rebekah Canada is the authority in our group, but from what I've checked out on our tree, your assumption should be correct as my brother is also Q1b1a and we have been told we are Q-L245.  I had the test taken finally to the 67 allele level.  Yes, the theory we were hearing about and accpting was the Khazar origin, but since then the R1...'s seem to be the people that fit into that slot.  I've also been excited to see researchers take our group into the Middle East, which makes more sense to me, though 20,000 some years ago I see the Q's coming out of Siberia and Mongolia and having a very distant connection to many Native American lines as well.  There was mention of our coming from Ur (in Iraq) where Abraham lived and left to go into Canaan, and I really got excited.  That makes complete sense to me being we have Muslims with our Q line as well that have been found through dna.  Do we dare say that Abraham could have been a Q1 ....?  Right now our Q1b1a or Q1b something or other make up only 5% of the Jewish male population.  We're a small group but of very outstanding people.  You can now go to your familytreedna website, if that's where you were tested, and see just who matches you.  I'll go do that and see how close we are.  We also have a group online on facebook you should get in on.   It's called Q yDNA Haplogroup Project. 
        Nadene Goldfoot
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Monday, July 30, 2012 5:14 PM
        Subject: [Ashkenazi-Q] New "Ashkenazi Q" result test with a couple of questions

         

        Hi, we just received my father's Y-DNA 37 test results over the weekend which placed us in the Q-M242 haplogroup. That said, can you please confirm the following assumptions after a couple days of research (sorry for the neophyte questions):

        1. Given our known Ashkenazi family history, would it be reasonable to assume that we likely reside into the L-245 sub-branch? After comparing our 'Q' result in the FTDNA DB to other profiles confirmed as 'Q1b1a', the figures appear so close that it is tempting to conclude we are Q1b1a. Is that a fair assumption?

        2. While I have read extensively about the theories on the Khazars being the "missing link" for any Ashkenazi Qs, is there more recent data (2010+) suggesting that the Q haplogroup may have emerged earlier from a different location, i.e. from the Middle East. I have seen a couple posts alluding to this, however, some academic researchers seem fairly convinced that the Khazars are the link (though their date may be getting stale).

        Thanks and feel free to email me directly if easier: pelter@hotmail(com)

        Regards,
        David Pelter

      • Albert Benhamou
        Hi From what I understood, the Khazars were not Q, but R. This explains why most (80%) of the Ashkenazi Levis are R (which is not typically Jewish/Semitic, but
        Message 3 of 6 , Aug 16, 2012
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          Hi
           
          From what I understood, the Khazars were not Q, but R. This explains why most (80%) of the Ashkenazi Levis are R (which is not typically Jewish/Semitic, but European.
          Q is more Asian in origin. In fact, Jews with Q are the closest to what Abraham and his sons would have been, because he came from Mesopotamia (Iraq).
          Many Iraqis, Jewish or not, are Q
           
          Albert
           
           
          Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 6:56 PM
          Subject: Re: [Ashkenazi-Q] New "Ashkenazi Q" result test with a couple of questions
           
           

          Hi David,
          Rebekah Canada is the authority in our group, but from what I've checked out on our tree, your assumption should be correct as my brother is also Q1b1a and we have been told we are Q-L245.  I had the test taken finally to the 67 allele level.  Yes, the theory we were hearing about and accpting was the Khazar origin, but since then the R1...'s seem to be the people that fit into that slot.  I've also been excited to see researchers take our group into the Middle East, which makes more sense to me, though 20,000 some years ago I see the Q's coming out of Siberia and Mongolia and having a very distant connection to many Native American lines as well.  There was mention of our coming from Ur (in Iraq) where Abraham lived and left to go into Canaan, and I really got excited.  That makes complete sense to me being we have Muslims with our Q line as well that have been found through dna.  Do we dare say that Abraham could have been a Q1 ....?  Right now our Q1b1a or Q1b something or other make up only 5% of the Jewish male population.  We're a small group but of very outstanding people.  You can now go to your familytreedna website, if that's where you were tested, and see just who matches you.  I'll go do that and see how close we are.  We also have a group online on facebook you should get in on.   It's called Q yDNA Haplogroup Project. 
          Nadene Goldfoot
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Monday, July 30, 2012 5:14 PM
          Subject: [Ashkenazi-Q] New "Ashkenazi Q" result test with a couple of questions
           
           

          Hi, we just received my father's Y-DNA 37 test results over the weekend which placed us in the Q-M242 haplogroup. That said, can you please confirm the following assumptions after a couple days of research (sorry for the neophyte questions):

          1. Given our known Ashkenazi family history, would it be reasonable to assume that we likely reside into the L-245 sub-branch? After comparing our 'Q' result in the FTDNA DB to other profiles confirmed as 'Q1b1a', the figures appear so close that it is tempting to conclude we are Q1b1a. Is that a fair assumption?

          2. While I have read extensively about the theories on the Khazars being the "missing link" for any Ashkenazi Qs, is there more recent data (2010+) suggesting that the Q haplogroup may have emerged earlier from a different location, i.e. from the Middle East. I have seen a couple posts alluding to this, however, some academic researchers seem fairly convinced that the Khazars are the link (though their date may be getting stale).

          Thanks and feel free to email me directly if easier: pelter@hotmail(com)

          Regards,
          David Pelter

        • NADENE GOLDFOOT
          Albert, I m so happy to read your comment. It s what I also have understood. I didn t know about 80% of the Askenazi Levis being R. Levis, I thought, have
          Message 4 of 6 , Aug 16, 2012
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            Albert,
            I'm so happy to read your comment.  It's what I also have understood.  I didn't know about 80% of the Askenazi Levis being R.  Levis, I thought, have been found to be a lot of different haplogroups.  So what % of Jews are Levites?  
             
            It's the Cohens that remained true to tradition.  I know a lot are J1's which is the Cohen gene from Moses and his brother Aaron.  I know a man whose oral family history was that they were Cohens though the surname was not Cohen.  He was a Cohen in the synagogue.  DNA testing at familytreedna proved him to be right.  It was J1.  That most likely is true in a lot of reports.  There's also E and G haplogroups,  I wrote a post in my http://jewishfactsfromportland.blogspot.com called What Haplogroup We Be http://jewishfactsfromportland.blogspot.com/2010/01/jewish-genes-what-haplogroup-could-they.htmland list a lot of the haplogroups of the Jewish people and where it was said they originated from long ago.  It is exciting to hear that Iraqis have been found to be Q's.
            Nadene Goldfoot. 
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 11:12 AM
            Subject: Re: [Ashkenazi-Q] New "Ashkenazi Q" result test with a couple of questions

             

            Hi
             
            From what I understood, the Khazars were not Q, but R. This explains why most (80%) of the Ashkenazi Levis are R (which is not typically Jewish/Semitic, but European.
            Q is more Asian in origin. In fact, Jews with Q are the closest to what Abraham and his sons would have been, because he came from Mesopotamia (Iraq).
            Many Iraqis, Jewish or not, are Q
             
            Albert
             
             
            Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 6:56 PM
            Subject: Re: [Ashkenazi-Q] New "Ashkenazi Q" result test with a couple of questions
             
             

            Hi David,
            Rebekah Canada is the authority in our group, but from what I've checked out on our tree, your assumption should be correct as my brother is also Q1b1a and we have been told we are Q-L245.  I had the test taken finally to the 67 allele level.  Yes, the theory we were hearing about and accpting was the Khazar origin, but since then the R1...'s seem to be the people that fit into that slot.  I've also been excited to see researchers take our group into the Middle East, which makes more sense to me, though 20,000 some years ago I see the Q's coming out of Siberia and Mongolia and having a very distant connection to many Native American lines as well.  There was mention of our coming from Ur (in Iraq) where Abraham lived and left to go into Canaan, and I really got excited.  That makes complete sense to me being we have Muslims with our Q line as well that have been found through dna.  Do we dare say that Abraham could have been a Q1 ....?  Right now our Q1b1a or Q1b something or other make up only 5% of the Jewish male population.  We're a small group but of very outstanding people.  You can now go to your familytreedna website, if that's where you were tested, and see just who matches you.  I'll go do that and see how close we are.  We also have a group online on facebook you should get in on.   It's called Q yDNA Haplogroup Project. 
            Nadene Goldfoot
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Monday, July 30, 2012 5:14 PM
            Subject: [Ashkenazi-Q] New "Ashkenazi Q" result test with a couple of questions
             
             

            Hi, we just received my father's Y-DNA 37 test results over the weekend which placed us in the Q-M242 haplogroup. That said, can you please confirm the following assumptions after a couple days of research (sorry for the neophyte questions):

            1. Given our known Ashkenazi family history, would it be reasonable to assume that we likely reside into the L-245 sub-branch? After comparing our 'Q' result in the FTDNA DB to other profiles confirmed as 'Q1b1a', the figures appear so close that it is tempting to conclude we are Q1b1a. Is that a fair assumption?

            2. While I have read extensively about the theories on the Khazars being the "missing link" for any Ashkenazi Qs, is there more recent data (2010+) suggesting that the Q haplogroup may have emerged earlier from a different location, i.e. from the Middle East. I have seen a couple posts alluding to this, however, some academic researchers seem fairly convinced that the Khazars are the link (though their date may be getting stale).

            Thanks and feel free to email me directly if easier: pelter@hotmail(com)

            Regards,
            David Pelter

          • Albert Benhamou
            Hi Nadene I don’t think we need to attach too much importance to actual %s because all these scientific surveys are based, after all, on a relatively small
            Message 5 of 6 , Aug 17, 2012
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              Hi Nadene
               
              I don’t think we need to attach too much importance to actual %s because all these scientific surveys are based, after all, on a relatively small number of people. But I think I read that Levites/Cohanim would be ~ 5% of the Jews. The Ashkenazi Levites are particular in the sense that many of them (say more than 50%) have a R haplogroup, unlike most Sephardi Levites who are J. One theory has been proposed that these R-type Ashkenazi Levites came from the Khazars, but this is speculative.
               
              About Cohen DNA, both types of J have been found relevant: J1 and J2. And we can be sure that other non-J Jewish people would know there are Cohen although they have non-J haplogroups. Not surprising I think. Remember that there were times, for example the ~ 50-year period leading to the destruction of the Second Temple, where the function of priest became a “job”, more politically than religiously motivated. So priests would come from different Jewish families at these times, and their descendants could later claim, from family tradition, of being a “Cohen”.
               
              As of names of Cohen’s, it is indeed possible for a person not called Cohen to be a Cohen. Names have changed and been adopted in the past, so there is nothing surprising here. Today, a person who claims by family tradition to be a Cohen, regardless of their name, is considered a Cohen. As long as this person sticks to the obligations of the status of course.
               
              Hope this helps
              Albert
               
               
              Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 7:48 PM
              Subject: Re: [Ashkenazi-Q] New "Ashkenazi Q" result test with a couple of questions
               
               

              

              Albert,
              I'm so happy to read your comment.  It's what I also have understood.  I didn't know about 80% of the Askenazi Levis being R.  Levis, I thought, have been found to be a lot of different haplogroups.  So what % of Jews are Levites?  
               
              It's the Cohens that remained true to tradition.  I know a lot are J1's which is the Cohen gene from Moses and his brother Aaron.  I know a man whose oral family history was that they were Cohens though the surname was not Cohen.  He was a Cohen in the synagogue.  DNA testing at familytreedna proved him to be right.  It was J1.  That most likely is true in a lot of reports.  There's also E and G haplogroups,  I wrote a post in my http://jewishfactsfromportland.blogspot.com called What Haplogroup We Be http://jewishfactsfromportland.blogspot.com/2010/01/jewish-genes-what-haplogroup-could-they.htmland list a lot of the haplogroups of the Jewish people and where it was said they originated from long ago.  It is exciting to hear that Iraqis have been found to be Q's.
              Nadene Goldfoot. 
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 11:12 AM
              Subject: Re: [Ashkenazi-Q] New "Ashkenazi Q" result test with a couple of questions
               
               

              Hi
               
              From what I understood, the Khazars were not Q, but R. This explains why most (80%) of the Ashkenazi Levis are R (which is not typically Jewish/Semitic, but European.
              Q is more Asian in origin. In fact, Jews with Q are the closest to what Abraham and his sons would have been, because he came from Mesopotamia (Iraq).
              Many Iraqis, Jewish or not, are Q
               
              Albert
               
               
              Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 6:56 PM
              Subject: Re: [Ashkenazi-Q] New "Ashkenazi Q" result test with a couple of questions
               
               

              Hi David,
              Rebekah Canada is the authority in our group, but from what I've checked out on our tree, your assumption should be correct as my brother is also Q1b1a and we have been told we are Q-L245.  I had the test taken finally to the 67 allele level.  Yes, the theory we were hearing about and accpting was the Khazar origin, but since then the R1...'s seem to be the people that fit into that slot.  I've also been excited to see researchers take our group into the Middle East, which makes more sense to me, though 20,000 some years ago I see the Q's coming out of Siberia and Mongolia and having a very distant connection to many Native American lines as well.  There was mention of our coming from Ur (in Iraq) where Abraham lived and left to go into Canaan, and I really got excited.  That makes complete sense to me being we have Muslims with our Q line as well that have been found through dna.  Do we dare say that Abraham could have been a Q1 ....?  Right now our Q1b1a or Q1b something or other make up only 5% of the Jewish male population.  We're a small group but of very outstanding people.  You can now go to your familytreedna website, if that's where you were tested, and see just who matches you.  I'll go do that and see how close we are.  We also have a group online on facebook you should get in on.   It's called Q yDNA Haplogroup Project. 
              Nadene Goldfoot
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Monday, July 30, 2012 5:14 PM
              Subject: [Ashkenazi-Q] New "Ashkenazi Q" result test with a couple of questions
               
               

              Hi, we just received my father's Y-DNA 37 test results over the weekend which placed us in the Q-M242 haplogroup. That said, can you please confirm the following assumptions after a couple days of research (sorry for the neophyte questions):

              1. Given our known Ashkenazi family history, would it be reasonable to assume that we likely reside into the L-245 sub-branch? After comparing our 'Q' result in the FTDNA DB to other profiles confirmed as 'Q1b1a', the figures appear so close that it is tempting to conclude we are Q1b1a. Is that a fair assumption?

              2. While I have read extensively about the theories on the Khazars being the "missing link" for any Ashkenazi Qs, is there more recent data (2010+) suggesting that the Q haplogroup may have emerged earlier from a different location, i.e. from the Middle East. I have seen a couple posts alluding to this, however, some academic researchers seem fairly convinced that the Khazars are the link (though their date may be getting stale).

              Thanks and feel free to email me directly if easier: pelter@hotmail(com)

              Regards,
              David Pelter

            • NADENE GOLDFOOT
              Right, Albert. I agree with you. In my own family, a cousin of a cousin, the man is a Cohen in the synagogue, has the oral history of being a Cohen, and by
              Message 6 of 6 , Aug 17, 2012
              • 0 Attachment
                
                Right, Albert.  I agree with you.  In my own family, a cousin of a cousin, the man is a Cohen in the synagogue, has the oral history of being a Cohen, and by dna is a Cohen J1, but his surname is not Cohen at all.  Most Jewish Cohens who still attend synagogue do know who they are, I'm finding, even ones who don't attend, for that matter.  They know the rule about visiting the cemetery, etc, the hands on the headstone, all that.  
                 
                I was married to a Levite, but he passed away several years ago and never had his dna tested.  That would have been interesting.  His father was the only one born in the states, and the family came from Russia.  Even back then they had to pay a guide to get them out at night and almost didn't make it. 
                 
                Nadene
                 
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Friday, August 17, 2012 5:32 PM
                Subject: Re: [Ashkenazi-Q] New "Ashkenazi Q" result test with a couple of questions

                 

                Hi Nadene
                 
                I don’t think we need to attach too much importance to actual %s because all these scientific surveys are based, after all, on a relatively small number of people. But I think I read that Levites/Cohanim would be ~ 5% of the Jews. The Ashkenazi Levites are particular in the sense that many of them (say more than 50%) have a R haplogroup, unlike most Sephardi Levites who are J. One theory has been proposed that these R-type Ashkenazi Levites came from the Khazars, but this is speculative.
                 
                About Cohen DNA, both types of J have been found relevant: J1 and J2. And we can be sure that other non-J Jewish people would know there are Cohen although they have non-J haplogroups. Not surprising I think. Remember that there were times, for example the ~ 50-year period leading to the destruction of the Second Temple, where the function of priest became a “job”, more politically than religiously motivated. So priests would come from different Jewish families at these times, and their descendants could later claim, from family tradition, of being a “Cohen”.
                 
                As of names of Cohen’s, it is indeed possible for a person not called Cohen to be a Cohen. Names have changed and been adopted in the past, so there is nothing surprising here. Today, a person who claims by family tradition to be a Cohen, regardless of their name, is considered a Cohen. As long as this person sticks to the obligations of the status of course.
                 
                Hope this helps
                Albert
                 
                 
                Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 7:48 PM
                Subject: Re: [Ashkenazi-Q] New "Ashkenazi Q" result test with a couple of questions
                 
                 

                

                Albert,
                I'm so happy to read your comment.  It's what I also have understood.  I didn't know about 80% of the Askenazi Levis being R.  Levis, I thought, have been found to be a lot of different haplogroups.  So what % of Jews are Levites?  
                 
                It's the Cohens that remained true to tradition.  I know a lot are J1's which is the Cohen gene from Moses and his brother Aaron.  I know a man whose oral family history was that they were Cohens though the surname was not Cohen.  He was a Cohen in the synagogue.  DNA testing at familytreedna proved him to be right.  It was J1.  That most likely is true in a lot of reports.  There's also E and G haplogroups,  I wrote a post in my http://jewishfactsfromportland.blogspot.com called What Haplogroup We Be http://jewishfactsfromportland.blogspot.com/2010/01/jewish-genes-what-haplogroup-could-they.htmland list a lot of the haplogroups of the Jewish people and where it was said they originated from long ago.  It is exciting to hear that Iraqis have been found to be Q's.
                Nadene Goldfoot. 
                 
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 11:12 AM
                Subject: Re: [Ashkenazi-Q] New "Ashkenazi Q" result test with a couple of questions
                 
                 

                Hi
                 
                From what I understood, the Khazars were not Q, but R. This explains why most (80%) of the Ashkenazi Levis are R (which is not typically Jewish/Semitic, but European.
                Q is more Asian in origin. In fact, Jews with Q are the closest to what Abraham and his sons would have been, because he came from Mesopotamia (Iraq).
                Many Iraqis, Jewish or not, are Q
                 
                Albert
                 
                 
                Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 6:56 PM
                Subject: Re: [Ashkenazi-Q] New "Ashkenazi Q" result test with a couple of questions
                 
                 

                Hi David,
                Rebekah Canada is the authority in our group, but from what I've checked out on our tree, your assumption should be correct as my brother is also Q1b1a and we have been told we are Q-L245.  I had the test taken finally to the 67 allele level.  Yes, the theory we were hearing about and accpting was the Khazar origin, but since then the R1...'s seem to be the people that fit into that slot.  I've also been excited to see researchers take our group into the Middle East, which makes more sense to me, though 20,000 some years ago I see the Q's coming out of Siberia and Mongolia and having a very distant connection to many Native American lines as well.  There was mention of our coming from Ur (in Iraq) where Abraham lived and left to go into Canaan, and I really got excited.  That makes complete sense to me being we have Muslims with our Q line as well that have been found through dna.  Do we dare say that Abraham could have been a Q1 ....?  Right now our Q1b1a or Q1b something or other make up only 5% of the Jewish male population.  We're a small group but of very outstanding people.  You can now go to your familytreedna website, if that's where you were tested, and see just who matches you.  I'll go do that and see how close we are.  We also have a group online on facebook you should get in on.   It's called Q yDNA Haplogroup Project. 
                Nadene Goldfoot
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Monday, July 30, 2012 5:14 PM
                Subject: [Ashkenazi-Q] New "Ashkenazi Q" result test with a couple of questions
                 
                 

                Hi, we just received my father's Y-DNA 37 test results over the weekend which placed us in the Q-M242 haplogroup. That said, can you please confirm the following assumptions after a couple days of research (sorry for the neophyte questions):

                1. Given our known Ashkenazi family history, would it be reasonable to assume that we likely reside into the L-245 sub-branch? After comparing our 'Q' result in the FTDNA DB to other profiles confirmed as 'Q1b1a', the figures appear so close that it is tempting to conclude we are Q1b1a. Is that a fair assumption?

                2. While I have read extensively about the theories on the Khazars being the "missing link" for any Ashkenazi Qs, is there more recent data (2010+) suggesting that the Q haplogroup may have emerged earlier from a different location, i.e. from the Middle East. I have seen a couple posts alluding to this, however, some academic researchers seem fairly convinced that the Khazars are the link (though their date may be getting stale).

                Thanks and feel free to email me directly if easier: pelter@hotmail(com)

                Regards,
                David Pelter

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