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Re: [Ashkenazi-Q] My mysterious lineage

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  • tlofftrax@cox.net
    Nadene and Jim, My paternal ancestors also have a German name: Fruhling (changed to Friehling here in the US). The ancestral towns are all in Galicia,
    Message 1 of 15 , Jan 14, 2012
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      Nadene and Jim, My paternal ancestors also have a German name: Fruhling (changed to Friehling here in the US). The ancestral towns are all in Galicia, near the Carpathian mountains, considered Austria when they were emigrating. We always thought they must have bribed someone to get the name that means "Springtime", instead of one of the more insulting names they could have gotten. We know there are non-Jewish Fruhlings most likely not related, but who knows for sure.
      Ted Friehling
      ---- NADENE GOLDFOOT <goldfoot1@...> wrote:
      > Hi Jim,
      > I just checked our alleles and my brother has the same results that you do on 439 and 385a. Our surname is Goldfoot, which is anglicized from Goldfus in Yiddish, Goldfuss in German. Jews were in Germany and from there branched out into Eastern Europe. ours went to Telsiai, Lithuania. After doing the 67 allele test and a few others we are listed as Q1b1 and are Ashkenazi Jewish. There are many surnames that are German and also Jewish with no connection between the two groups. This is true of Goldfoot. There is another group that are of a completely different haplogroup. Jews had to buy names eventually when the countries wanted taxes from the people, and were given a list to choose from, usually.
      >
      > Luckily, my father and his mother and siblings were alive and we lived in the same city that he was born in. I've had to do a lot of searching to find the origins were Telsiai. The only hint I had was the 1910 census in that his father came from "Russia." My grandfather died in an accident in 1912. Have you done a genealogy search and check the census records carefully? If you need help in this, my email is goldfoot1@.... I'd be willing to help look for you if you contact me right away before my subsc to ancestry stops.
      >
      > Nadene
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: J
      > To: Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 6:25 AM
      > Subject: [Ashkenazi-Q] My mysterious lineage
      >
      >
      >
      > I just joined this group after finding out via the Genographic Project that I'm in Haplogroup Q - M242.
      >
      > The mystery comes from the fact that my father, who died 50 years ago, was most likely an imposter who did a very good job of covering his tracks. He was a "Don Draper" (Mad Men on TV)-type guy, working on Wall Street and living in the suburbs with a wife and kids. He had a Germanic last name and a story about his background that has proven to be very dubious.
      >
      > I'm joining this group because of the following:
      >
      > (1) It makes sense that he might have been hiding a Jewish background, since other young men from that time (1920s) did the same thing.
      >
      > (2) My DYS chart from the Genographic Project is almost a match to one that I found online for Ashkenazi-Q's. The only difference was DYS439 -- I have a value of 12 instead of 16.
      >
      > (I also have a DYS385a of 14 and a DYS385b of 16, but there is no listing for those DYS's in the Ashkenazi-Q table I saw online.)
      >
      > I realized awhile back that the only clues my Dad seemed to have left me are the ones I carry inside me -- and my DNA, in particular. My facial features are a little unusual -- somewhat like Frank Langella's. If I were in show biz, I could probably play a villain who's Spanish (which is my mom's lineage) or Arabic or Jewish or maybe even Asian -- but not the German that the last name I got from my father would seem to indicate.
      >
      > I'm open to suggestions as to how to proceed from here.
      >
      > Jim
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • J
      Thanks for the suggestion, A.J., and I just uploaded my results to Ysearch. The # is MPV9P. Jim
      Message 2 of 15 , Jan 14, 2012
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        Thanks for the suggestion, A.J., and I just uploaded my results to Ysearch. The # is MPV9P.

        Jim

        --- In Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com, "aj_levin" <aj_levin@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello Jim,
        >
        > Do you suppose you could upload your results to Ysearch from within your Family Tree DNA page and post the 5-digit Ysearch account number here? This is probably the easiest way for others to offer an opinion.
        >
        > Best,
        >
        > A.J.
        >
      • NADENE GOLDFOOT
        Jim, My thoughts are: Go to the JewishGen website, http://www.jewishgen.org/, put in Germany for starterrs in the country, and you will see tons of
        Message 3 of 15 , Jan 14, 2012
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          Jim,
          My thoughts are: Go to the JewishGen website,  http://www.jewishgen.org/, put in Germany for starterrs in the country, and you will see tons of information come up for Von Schilling.  You can explore using your own facts of your genealogy.  It'll take months to use all the available searches on this one free website.
           
          Also, use the paid website of http://ancestry.com and use your name, Von Schilling, and see what there is.  I just did and found a family in Brooklyn with the father from Belgium.  There are tons and tons of Von Schillings listed there.  You know that it will list the head of the family, and then tells what country the father was from and the mother of that head.  That's another clue.  You can also look for what language the spoke.  It would be interesting to see if it was Hebrew or Yiddish.  I saw a person that was listing as Schilling.  It's possible that the original name was that, and that Von was added later.  Anyway, see how far you can go with your Von Schilling surname till it goes into Europe and you can't search unless you go for the world option which is a little more expensive.  That is great if you're doing an English/Welsh, Irish, Scottish search, but not so good on other countires.  That's where JewishGen really comes in.  It's amazing.
          I actually found my Nathan Goldfus (first name was in Yiddish as Nokhum Goldfus)  and I almost missed it as I was still thinking "Nathan".  in Telsiai, Lithuania.  My hint was that I have run across two other serious Goldfus researchers who also found their Goldfus person in Telsiai.  That seemed to be the only place I have found Goldfus-in Lithuania. 
           
          The change may be when your ancestor had to go from example: Abraham, son of Nathan to Abraham Von Schilling.  I've run across Jews coming to the USA who changed their (new) surnames to another one-like one person who used the name of his sponsor out of gratitude, or some such reason as evading the Russian draft. 
           
          If you have had the whole 67 allele dna test, you might go for the next test of your genes where you find people with segments of your genes.  I had that done at 23&me because I got a sale price at the time, and you can see the countries their ancestors came from who are a match to you.  It can give you more insight. 
          Nadene
           
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 3:54 AM
          Subject: Re: [Ashkenazi-Q] My mysterious lineage

           

          Hi Nadene,

          Thanks for the info and also for the offer to help. The problem with doing the genealogy search is that I don't think the last name my father used was his original last name. There are people who are familiar with the background of the "Von Schilling" family, and we've had a little contact in the past. It just seems that their story is entirely different from the story my father told and that there's no place in their family history where my father seemed to fit in.

          I've done some searching of census records, although maybe not as much as I could. Again, the problem is that I don't really know what last name my father had when he was growing up.

          Jim

          >>> "NADENE GOLDFOOT" 01/13/12 1:02 PM >>>
          Hi Jim,
          I just checked our alleles and my brother has the same results that you do on 439 and 385a. Our surname is Goldfoot, which is anglicized from Goldfus in Yiddish, Goldfuss in German. Jews were in Germany and from there branched out into Eastern Europe. ours went to Telsiai, Lithuania. After doing the 67 allele test and a few others we are listed as Q1b1 and are Ashkenazi Jewish. There are many surnames that are German and also Jewish with no connection between the two groups. This is true of Goldfoot. There is another group that are of a completely different haplogroup. Jews had to buy names eventually when the countries wanted taxes from the people, and were given a list to choose from, usually.

          Luckily, my father and his mother and siblings were alive and we lived in the same city that he was born in. I've had to do a lot of searching to find the origins were Telsiai. The only hint I had was the 1910 census in that his father came from "Russia." My grandfather died in an accident in 1912. Have you done a genealogy search and check the census records carefully? If you need help in this, my email is goldfoot1@.... I'd be willing to help look for you if you contact me right away before my subsc to ancestry stops.

          Nadene

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: J
          To: Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 6:25 AM
          Subject: [Ashkenazi-Q] My mysterious lineage

          I just joined this group after finding out via the Genographic Project that I'm in Haplogroup Q - M242.

          The mystery comes from the fact that my father, who died 50 years ago, was most likely an imposter who did a very good job of covering his tracks. He was a "Don Draper" (Mad Men on TV)-type guy, working on Wall Street and living in the suburbs with a wife and kids. He had a Germanic last name and a story about his background that has proven to be very dubious.

          I'm joining this group because of the following:

          (1) It makes sense that he might have been hiding a Jewish background, since other young men from that time (1920s) did the same thing.

          (2) My DYS chart from the Genographic Project is almost a match to one that I found online for Ashkenazi-Q's. The only difference was DYS439 -- I have a value of 12 instead of 16.

          (I also have a DYS385a of 14 and a DYS385b of 16, but there is no listing for those DYS's in the Ashkenazi-Q table I saw online.)

          I realized awhile back that the only clues my Dad seemed to have left me are the ones I carry inside me -- and my DNA, in particular. My facial features are a little unusual -- somewhat like Frank Langella's. If I were in show biz, I could probably play a villain who's Spanish (which is my mom's lineage) or Arabic or Jewish or maybe even Asian -- but not the German that the last name I got from my father would seem to indicate.

          I'm open to suggestions as to how to proceed from here.

          Jim

        • Chris
          Do you have more than 12 markers? My Swiss German ancestors were Q1b1a* any Jewish roots are Conjectural, as far back as the 16th century they were Christians,
          Message 4 of 15 , Jan 14, 2012
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            Do you have more than 12 markers? My Swiss German ancestors were Q1b1a* any Jewish roots are Conjectural, as far back as the 16th century they were Christians, German speaking farmers. and all my close matches are likely Swiss, though they may be listed as German or French, They were Mennonites or close relations.

            I have swiss matches at 1200 and possibly 1800 years separate. my closest know Jewish(Ashkenazim) match is at least 2100 years away, And the Swiss Identity is only 500 years old, the Allemanic and German Identities are 1500. The Swiss, Bavarian and Swabian Germans were for the most part Germanized Celts. So your Q could be Fully Jewish, fully German, fully Swiss, or all the above.

            Quote: Rebekah Canada
            DYF395S1 is a very slow changing marker. All Ashkenazi Jewish Q1b1a men have DYF395SI = 15-18 or 15-19. Others, who are not Jews or who are other types of Jews (Mizrachi, Sephardi, etc.) have different values.

            My values for DYF395S1 are 15-17
            So you should check those values or get them tested, beyond the National Genographic Project, go to FTDna.com or 23andme.com

            --- In Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com, "J" <jvonschilling@...> wrote:
            >
            > I just joined this group after finding out via the Genographic Project that I'm in Haplogroup Q - M242.
            >
            > The mystery comes from the fact that my father, who died 50 years ago, was most likely an imposter who did a very good job of covering his tracks. He was a "Don Draper" (Mad Men on TV)-type guy, working on Wall Street and living in the suburbs with a wife and kids. He had a Germanic last name and a story about his background that has proven to be very dubious.
            >
            > I'm joining this group because of the following:
            >
            > (1) It makes sense that he might have been hiding a Jewish background, since other young men from that time (1920s) did the same thing.
            >
            > (2) My DYS chart from the Genographic Project is almost a match to one that I found online for Ashkenazi-Q's. The only difference was DYS439 -- I have a value of 12 instead of 16.
            >
            > (I also have a DYS385a of 14 and a DYS385b of 16, but there is no listing for those DYS's in the Ashkenazi-Q table I saw online.)
            >
            > I realized awhile back that the only clues my Dad seemed to have left me are the ones I carry inside me -- and my DNA, in particular. My facial features are a little unusual -- somewhat like Frank Langella's. If I were in show biz, I could probably play a villain who's Spanish (which is my mom's lineage) or Arabic or Jewish or maybe even Asian -- but not the German that the last name I got from my father would seem to indicate.
            >
            > I'm open to suggestions as to how to proceed from here.
            >
            > Jim
            >
          • Dave
            Dear Dr. Jim, I found you at FamilyTreeDNA. At 12 markers you match me and 231 other people exactly. As far as I can tell we are 99% Ashkenazi Jewish. I
            Message 5 of 15 , Jan 14, 2012
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              Dear Dr. Jim,

              I found you at FamilyTreeDNA. At 12 markers you match me and 231 other people exactly.

              As far as I can tell we are 99% Ashkenazi Jewish.

              I suggest you do the following for your next steps.

              1. Join the Jewish_Q surname group at Family Tree DNA.
              2. Join the Q Y-DNA group at Family Tree DNA.
              3. You need to have more STRs tested. That means going from 12 markers to say 67. This will really reduce the number of exact matches.
              4. At this time do not waste your time having SNPs tested. You will get far more interesting information from having STRs tested.
              5. If you are interested in your mother's background you might have your mtDNA tested.
              6. If you would like to find close relatives in the database then you should join the Family Finder at Family Tree DNA and pay for that test. I think that will replace or include #5.
              7. If you are interested in health issues in your DNA then consider being tested at 23andME.com.

              For sure do steps #1 and #2. They are free. Step #1 will let me help you. Step #2 will let a whole group of interesting people help you.

              Do not worry about the L245. Your STRs will give you a good idea of your SNPs. You are most likely Q1b1a.

              Dave Howard
              Group Administrator for Jewish_Q
              Moderator of this Group (Ashkenazi-Q)

              PS We enjoy your posts and there are some very nice, friendly, and helpful people here. Some know 10x more about this stuff than I do.

              PS My wife thinks Frank Langella is the sexiest man in the world after Sean Connery.


              --- In Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com, "J" <jvonschilling@...> wrote:
              >
              > I just joined this group after finding out via the Genographic Project that I'm in Haplogroup Q - M242.
              >
              > The mystery comes from the fact that my father, who died 50 years ago, was most likely an imposter who did a very good job of covering his tracks. He was a "Don Draper" (Mad Men on TV)-type guy, working on Wall Street and living in the suburbs with a wife and kids. He had a Germanic last name and a story about his background that has proven to be very dubious.
              >
              > I'm joining this group because of the following:
              >
              > (1) It makes sense that he might have been hiding a Jewish background, since other young men from that time (1920s) did the same thing.
              >
              > (2) My DYS chart from the Genographic Project is almost a match to one that I found online for Ashkenazi-Q's. The only difference was DYS439 -- I have a value of 12 instead of 16.
              >
              > (I also have a DYS385a of 14 and a DYS385b of 16, but there is no listing for those DYS's in the Ashkenazi-Q table I saw online.)
              >
              > I realized awhile back that the only clues my Dad seemed to have left me are the ones I carry inside me -- and my DNA, in particular. My facial features are a little unusual -- somewhat like Frank Langella's. If I were in show biz, I could probably play a villain who's Spanish (which is my mom's lineage) or Arabic or Jewish or maybe even Asian -- but not the German that the last name I got from my father would seem to indicate.
              >
              > I'm open to suggestions as to how to proceed from here.
              >
              > Jim
              >
            • Michael Jaron
              Hello Jim, I see that you teach English, so i can assume that you are familiar with Orwell and his book 1984 , Part of the theme revolves around three
              Message 6 of 15 , Jan 15, 2012
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                Hello Jim,

                I see that you teach English, so i can assume that you are familiar with Orwell and his book "1984",  Part of the theme revolves around three slogans (Sound Bytes): War Is Peace
                Freedom is Slavery
                Ignorance is Strength

                The first one exemplifies the role of Scapegoating:  Why did the Bishop(s) of Rome establish the first ghettos and place economic limitations upon Jewish activity?  The answer is in what afterwards!  The limitations and ghettos enabled the success of the Venetian Merchants.

                The king of France used religious heresy as a means to destroy the Knights Templar.  In this way, he could avoid paying his debts to them!  (Sound familiar?)

                On JEWISHGEN, Warren Blatt discusses the issue of conscription.  In his FAQ, he points out that it is at best, a small part of the reason for Jewish Migrations.  What happened in Europe following the French Revolution?  What you have is the development of Revolutionary Movements and other forms of social unrest.  One of the means used to stem the tide of this unrest was by way of the Black Hundreds in the Russian Empire.  It was a group sanctioned by both the government and the church.  (My grandfather barely escaped there onslaught.

                War is Peace - isn't it?

                Genealogy provides a microcosm of the experience of a group or identity.  Within the time span of a little more than 100 years, my family can be found in approximately 26 states (plus).  The gamut of identity, whereby some no longer identify as Jews.  Compare that time span to the 1200 years since Charlemagne encouraged Jewish settlement in his EMPIRE.  An empire that encompasses most of what is present day Europe.  Do you think they needed a Passport?

                Regards
                Mike Jaron
              • James Von Schilling
                Thanks, Nadene, for all your good advice. Maybe my next step is to go for the 67 DNA test -- I just looked at the price list at Family Tree. The catch with
                Message 7 of 15 , Jan 16, 2012
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                  Thanks, Nadene, for all your good advice. Maybe my next step is to go for the 67 DNA test -- I just looked at the price list at Family Tree.


                  The catch with looking into the various listings of people named Von Schilling and Schilling is that I just don't know if my father had that name (either one) at birth or where his ancestors lived. But I did just register with the JewishGen website and started to explore the lists.


                  Jim

                  >>> "NADENE GOLDFOOT" 01/14/12 5:08 PM >>>
                  Jim,
                  My thoughts are: Go to the JewishGen website, http://www.jewishgen.org/, put in Germany for starterrs in the country, and you will see tons of information come up for Von Schilling. You can explore using your own facts of your genealogy. It'll take months to use all the available searches on this one free website.

                  Also, use the paid website of http://ancestry.com and use your name, Von Schilling, and see what there is. I just did and found a family in Brooklyn with the father from Belgium. There are tons and tons of Von Schillings listed there. You know that it will list the head of the family, and then tells what country the father was from and the mother of that head. That's another clue. You can also look for what language the spoke. It would be interesting to see if it was Hebrew or Yiddish. I saw a person that was listing as Schilling. It's possible that the original name was that, and that Von was added later. Anyway, see how far you can go with your Von Schilling surname till it goes into Europe and you can't search unless you go for the world option which is a little more expensive. That is great if you're doing an English/Welsh, Irish, Scottish search, but not so good on other countires. That's where JewishGen really comes in. It's amazing.
                  I actually found my Nathan Goldfus (first name was in Yiddish as Nokhum Goldfus) and I almost missed it as I was still thinking "Nathan". in Telsiai, Lithuania. My hint was that I have run across two other serious Goldfus researchers who also found their Goldfus person in Telsiai. That seemed to be the only place I have found Goldfus-in Lithuania.

                  The change may be when your ancestor had to go from example: Abraham, son of Nathan to Abraham Von Schilling. I've run across Jews coming to the USA who changed their (new) surnames to another one-like one person who used the name of his sponsor out of gratitude, or some such reason as evading the Russian draft.

                  If you have had the whole 67 allele dna test, you might go for the next test of your genes where you find people with segments of your genes. I had that done at 23&me because I got a sale price at the time, and you can see the countries their ancestors came from who are a match to you. It can give you more insight.
                  Nadene


                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: James Von Schilling
                  To: Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 3:54 AM
                  Subject: Re: [Ashkenazi-Q] My mysterious lineage



                  Hi Nadene,

                  Thanks for the info and also for the offer to help. The problem with doing the genealogy search is that I don't think the last name my father used was his original last name. There are people who are familiar with the background of the "Von Schilling" family, and we've had a little contact in the past. It just seems that their story is entirely different from the story my father told and that there's no place in their family history where my father seemed to fit in.

                  I've done some searching of census records, although maybe not as much as I could. Again, the problem is that I don't really know what last name my father had when he was growing up.

                  Jim

                  >>> "NADENE GOLDFOOT" 01/13/12 1:02 PM >>>
                  Hi Jim,
                  I just checked our alleles and my brother has the same results that you do on 439 and 385a. Our surname is Goldfoot, which is anglicized from Goldfus in Yiddish, Goldfuss in German. Jews were in Germany and from there branched out into Eastern Europe. ours went to Telsiai, Lithuania. After doing the 67 allele test and a few others we are listed as Q1b1 and are Ashkenazi Jewish. There are many surnames that are German and also Jewish with no connection between the two groups. This is true of Goldfoot. There is another group that are of a completely different haplogroup. Jews had to buy names eventually when the countries wanted taxes from the people, and were given a list to choose from, usually.

                  Luckily, my father and his mother and siblings were alive and we lived in the same city that he was born in. I've had to do a lot of searching to find the origins were Telsiai. The only hint I had was the 1910 census in that his father came from "Russia." My grandfather died in an accident in 1912. Have you done a genealogy search and check the census records carefully? If you need help in this, my email is goldfoot1@.... I'd be willing to help look for you if you contact me right away before my subsc to ancestry stops.

                  Nadene

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: J
                  To: Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 6:25 AM
                  Subject: [Ashkenazi-Q] My mysterious lineage

                  I just joined this group after finding out via the Genographic Project that I'm in Haplogroup Q - M242.

                  The mystery comes from the fact that my father, who died 50 years ago, was most likely an imposter who did a very good job of covering his tracks. He was a "Don Draper" (Mad Men on TV)-type guy, working on Wall Street and living in the suburbs with a wife and kids. He had a Germanic last name and a story about his background that has proven to be very dubious.

                  I'm joining this group because of the following:

                  (1) It makes sense that he might have been hiding a Jewish background, since other young men from that time (1920s) did the same thing.

                  (2) My DYS chart from the Genographic Project is almost a match to one that I found online for Ashkenazi-Q's. The only difference was DYS439 -- I have a value of 12 instead of 16.

                  (I also have a DYS385a of 14 and a DYS385b of 16, but there is no listing for those DYS's in the Ashkenazi-Q table I saw online.)

                  I realized awhile back that the only clues my Dad seemed to have left me are the ones I carry inside me -- and my DNA, in particular. My facial features are a little unusual -- somewhat like Frank Langella's. If I were in show biz, I could probably play a villain who's Spanish (which is my mom's lineage) or Arabic or Jewish or maybe even Asian -- but not the German that the last name I got from my father would seem to indicate.

                  I'm open to suggestions as to how to proceed from here.

                  Jim
                • J
                  I don t have more than 12 markers at this time, but getting more markers definitely seems like something I should look into. Thanks for the info! Jim
                  Message 8 of 15 , Jan 16, 2012
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                    I don't have more than 12 markers at this time, but getting more markers definitely seems like something I should look into.

                    Thanks for the info!

                    Jim

                    --- In Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <cdbaysinger@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Do you have more than 12 markers? My Swiss German ancestors were Q1b1a* any Jewish roots are Conjectural, as far back as the 16th century they were Christians, German speaking farmers. and all my close matches are likely Swiss, though they may be listed as German or French, They were Mennonites or close relations.
                    >
                    > I have swiss matches at 1200 and possibly 1800 years separate. my closest know Jewish(Ashkenazim) match is at least 2100 years away, And the Swiss Identity is only 500 years old, the Allemanic and German Identities are 1500. The Swiss, Bavarian and Swabian Germans were for the most part Germanized Celts. So your Q could be Fully Jewish, fully German, fully Swiss, or all the above.
                    >
                    > Quote: Rebekah Canada
                    > DYF395S1 is a very slow changing marker. All Ashkenazi Jewish Q1b1a men have DYF395SI = 15-18 or 15-19. Others, who are not Jews or who are other types of Jews (Mizrachi, Sephardi, etc.) have different values.
                    >
                    > My values for DYF395S1 are 15-17
                    > So you should check those values or get them tested, beyond the National Genographic Project, go to FTDna.com or 23andme.com
                    >
                    > --- In Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com, "J" <jvonschilling@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > I just joined this group after finding out via the Genographic Project that I'm in Haplogroup Q - M242.
                    > >
                    > > The mystery comes from the fact that my father, who died 50 years ago, was most likely an imposter who did a very good job of covering his tracks. He was a "Don Draper" (Mad Men on TV)-type guy, working on Wall Street and living in the suburbs with a wife and kids. He had a Germanic last name and a story about his background that has proven to be very dubious.
                    > >
                    > > I'm joining this group because of the following:
                    > >
                    > > (1) It makes sense that he might have been hiding a Jewish background, since other young men from that time (1920s) did the same thing.
                    > >
                    > > (2) My DYS chart from the Genographic Project is almost a match to one that I found online for Ashkenazi-Q's. The only difference was DYS439 -- I have a value of 12 instead of 16.
                    > >
                    > > (I also have a DYS385a of 14 and a DYS385b of 16, but there is no listing for those DYS's in the Ashkenazi-Q table I saw online.)
                    > >
                    > > I realized awhile back that the only clues my Dad seemed to have left me are the ones I carry inside me -- and my DNA, in particular. My facial features are a little unusual -- somewhat like Frank Langella's. If I were in show biz, I could probably play a villain who's Spanish (which is my mom's lineage) or Arabic or Jewish or maybe even Asian -- but not the German that the last name I got from my father would seem to indicate.
                    > >
                    > > I'm open to suggestions as to how to proceed from here.
                    > >
                    > > Jim
                    > >
                    >
                  • J
                    Thanks for the great advice, Dave, and I am taking the first two steps and will look into testing more STRs. I will be happy with ranking 4th on your wife s
                    Message 9 of 15 , Jan 16, 2012
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                      Thanks for the great advice, Dave, and I am taking the first two steps and will look into testing more STRs.

                      I will be happy with ranking 4th on your wife's list, since I assume you're 3rd!

                      Jim

                      --- In Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <dshoward@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Dear Dr. Jim,
                      >
                      > I found you at FamilyTreeDNA. At 12 markers you match me and 231 other people exactly.
                      >
                      > As far as I can tell we are 99% Ashkenazi Jewish.
                      >
                      > I suggest you do the following for your next steps.
                      >
                      > 1. Join the Jewish_Q surname group at Family Tree DNA.
                      > 2. Join the Q Y-DNA group at Family Tree DNA.
                      > 3. You need to have more STRs tested. That means going from 12 markers to say 67. This will really reduce the number of exact matches.
                      > 4. At this time do not waste your time having SNPs tested. You will get far more interesting information from having STRs tested.
                      > 5. If you are interested in your mother's background you might have your mtDNA tested.
                      > 6. If you would like to find close relatives in the database then you should join the Family Finder at Family Tree DNA and pay for that test. I think that will replace or include #5.
                      > 7. If you are interested in health issues in your DNA then consider being tested at 23andME.com.
                      >
                      > For sure do steps #1 and #2. They are free. Step #1 will let me help you. Step #2 will let a whole group of interesting people help you.
                      >
                      > Do not worry about the L245. Your STRs will give you a good idea of your SNPs. You are most likely Q1b1a.
                      >
                      > Dave Howard
                      > Group Administrator for Jewish_Q
                      > Moderator of this Group (Ashkenazi-Q)
                      >
                      > PS We enjoy your posts and there are some very nice, friendly, and helpful people here. Some know 10x more about this stuff than I do.
                      >
                      > PS My wife thinks Frank Langella is the sexiest man in the world after Sean Connery.
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com, "J" <jvonschilling@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > I just joined this group after finding out via the Genographic Project that I'm in Haplogroup Q - M242.
                      > >
                      > > The mystery comes from the fact that my father, who died 50 years ago, was most likely an imposter who did a very good job of covering his tracks. He was a "Don Draper" (Mad Men on TV)-type guy, working on Wall Street and living in the suburbs with a wife and kids. He had a Germanic last name and a story about his background that has proven to be very dubious.
                      > >
                      > > I'm joining this group because of the following:
                      > >
                      > > (1) It makes sense that he might have been hiding a Jewish background, since other young men from that time (1920s) did the same thing.
                      > >
                      > > (2) My DYS chart from the Genographic Project is almost a match to one that I found online for Ashkenazi-Q's. The only difference was DYS439 -- I have a value of 12 instead of 16.
                      > >
                      > > (I also have a DYS385a of 14 and a DYS385b of 16, but there is no listing for those DYS's in the Ashkenazi-Q table I saw online.)
                      > >
                      > > I realized awhile back that the only clues my Dad seemed to have left me are the ones I carry inside me -- and my DNA, in particular. My facial features are a little unusual -- somewhat like Frank Langella's. If I were in show biz, I could probably play a villain who's Spanish (which is my mom's lineage) or Arabic or Jewish or maybe even Asian -- but not the German that the last name I got from my father would seem to indicate.
                      > >
                      > > I'm open to suggestions as to how to proceed from here.
                      > >
                      > > Jim
                      > >
                      >
                    • NADENE GOLDFOOT
                      James, I ve been thinking about your predicament. I could advise you more if I knew your birthdate and that of your father. If he was in the states he and/or
                      Message 10 of 15 , Jan 16, 2012
                      • 0 Attachment
                        James, I've been thinking about your predicament.  I could advise you more if I knew your birthdate and that of your father.  If he was in the states he and/or your family could be on the census which stops at 1930.  We're waiting for the 1940 to come out online, but it hasn't happened as yet.  That gives a lot of information, the immigration date if he immigrated, the country he was born in, and that of his parents, etc.  If he changed his name, I can think of lots of exciting reasons.  Maybe he was involved with the federal goverment and had to be relocated and given a new name being he grew up in the 20's.  He could have been evading being hit by mobsters.  You never know.  Either that or he changed his name before coming to the states to evade the Russian draft or something like that.  But why Von Schilling?  A friend? Benefactor?  Character in a book?  History?  What a puzzle.  Go for all the dna you can do.  Then study the history of the area and you might get a good picture of your family's history.  Don't forget to use Jewishgen.  Give it a go with your surname anyway. 
                        Nadene
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 4:40 AM
                        Subject: Re: [Ashkenazi-Q] My mysterious lineage

                         

                        Thanks, Nadene, for all your good advice. Maybe my next step is to go for the 67 DNA test -- I just looked at the price list at Family Tree.

                        The catch with looking into the various listings of people named Von Schilling and Schilling is that I just don't know if my father had that name (either one) at birth or where his ancestors lived. But I did just register with the JewishGen website and started to explore the lists.

                        Jim

                        >>> "NADENE GOLDFOOT" 01/14/12 5:08 PM >>>
                        Jim,
                        My thoughts are: Go to the JewishGen website, http://www.jewishgen.org/, put in Germany for starterrs in the country, and you will see tons of information come up for Von Schilling. You can explore using your own facts of your genealogy. It'll take months to use all the available searches on this one free website.

                        Also, use the paid website of http://ancestry.com and use your name, Von Schilling, and see what there is. I just did and found a family in Brooklyn with the father from Belgium. There are tons and tons of Von Schillings listed there. You know that it will list the head of the family, and then tells what country the father was from and the mother of that head. That's another clue. You can also look for what language the spoke. It would be interesting to see if it was Hebrew or Yiddish. I saw a person that was listing as Schilling. It's possible that the original name was that, and that Von was added later. Anyway, see how far you can go with your Von Schilling surname till it goes into Europe and you can't search unless you go for the world option which is a little more expensive. That is great if you're doing an English/Welsh, Irish, Scottish search, but not so good on other countires. That's where JewishGen really comes in. It's amazing.
                        I actually found my Nathan Goldfus (first name was in Yiddish as Nokhum Goldfus) and I almost missed it as I was still thinking "Nathan". in Telsiai, Lithuania. My hint was that I have run across two other serious Goldfus researchers who also found their Goldfus person in Telsiai. That seemed to be the only place I have found Goldfus-in Lithuania.

                        The change may be when your ancestor had to go from example: Abraham, son of Nathan to Abraham Von Schilling. I've run across Jews coming to the USA who changed their (new) surnames to another one-like one person who used the name of his sponsor out of gratitude, or some such reason as evading the Russian draft.

                        If you have had the whole 67 allele dna test, you might go for the next test of your genes where you find people with segments of your genes. I had that done at 23&me because I got a sale price at the time, and you can see the countries their ancestors came from who are a match to you. It can give you more insight.
                        Nadene

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: James Von Schilling
                        To: Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 3:54 AM
                        Subject: Re: [Ashkenazi-Q] My mysterious lineage

                        Hi Nadene,

                        Thanks for the info and also for the offer to help. The problem with doing the genealogy search is that I don't think the last name my father used was his original last name. There are people who are familiar with the background of the "Von Schilling" family, and we've had a little contact in the past. It just seems that their story is entirely different from the story my father told and that there's no place in their family history where my father seemed to fit in.

                        I've done some searching of census records, although maybe not as much as I could. Again, the problem is that I don't really know what last name my father had when he was growing up.

                        Jim

                        >>> "NADENE GOLDFOOT" 01/13/12 1:02 PM >>>
                        Hi Jim,
                        I just checked our alleles and my brother has the same results that you do on 439 and 385a. Our surname is Goldfoot, which is anglicized from Goldfus in Yiddish, Goldfuss in German. Jews were in Germany and from there branched out into Eastern Europe. ours went to Telsiai, Lithuania. After doing the 67 allele test and a few others we are listed as Q1b1 and are Ashkenazi Jewish. There are many surnames that are German and also Jewish with no connection between the two groups. This is true of Goldfoot. There is another group that are of a completely different haplogroup. Jews had to buy names eventually when the countries wanted taxes from the people, and were given a list to choose from, usually.

                        Luckily, my father and his mother and siblings were alive and we lived in the same city that he was born in. I've had to do a lot of searching to find the origins were Telsiai. The only hint I had was the 1910 census in that his father came from "Russia." My grandfather died in an accident in 1912. Have you done a genealogy search and check the census records carefully? If you need help in this, my email is goldfoot1@.... I'd be willing to help look for you if you contact me right away before my subsc to ancestry stops.

                        Nadene

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: J
                        To: Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 6:25 AM
                        Subject: [Ashkenazi-Q] My mysterious lineage

                        I just joined this group after finding out via the Genographic Project that I'm in Haplogroup Q - M242.

                        The mystery comes from the fact that my father, who died 50 years ago, was most likely an imposter who did a very good job of covering his tracks. He was a "Don Draper" (Mad Men on TV)-type guy, working on Wall Street and living in the suburbs with a wife and kids. He had a Germanic last name and a story about his background that has proven to be very dubious.

                        I'm joining this group because of the following:

                        (1) It makes sense that he might have been hiding a Jewish background, since other young men from that time (1920s) did the same thing.

                        (2) My DYS chart from the Genographic Project is almost a match to one that I found online for Ashkenazi-Q's. The only difference was DYS439 -- I have a value of 12 instead of 16.

                        (I also have a DYS385a of 14 and a DYS385b of 16, but there is no listing for those DYS's in the Ashkenazi-Q table I saw online.)

                        I realized awhile back that the only clues my Dad seemed to have left me are the ones I carry inside me -- and my DNA, in particular. My facial features are a little unusual -- somewhat like Frank Langella's. If I were in show biz, I could probably play a villain who's Spanish (which is my mom's lineage) or Arabic or Jewish or maybe even Asian -- but not the German that the last name I got from my father would seem to indicate.

                        I'm open to suggestions as to how to proceed from here.

                        Jim

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