Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

For Those Paying for Upgrades - Good Return on Your Investment?

Expand Messages
  • Dave
    For those of you who are paying to have more and more yDNA tests do you feel you are getting anything of value in return? What value are you getting? Have you
    Message 1 of 10 , Aug 18 10:46 PM
    • 0 Attachment
      For those of you who are paying to have more and more yDNA tests do you feel you are getting anything of value in return?

      What value are you getting?

      Have you found relatives?

      Has the additional testing helped your genealogy?

      Do you have a sense you are just wasting your money and learning nothing really useful?

      Do you feel you are contributing to valuable research?

      I have become skeptical of the value of the additional tests that Rebekah keeps encouraging.

      I am interested in your comments.

      Dave
    • systema96
      While I could not find any new family members. But there is a close match, but they are not supported by any oral tradition, no documentation. Although my
      Message 2 of 10 , Aug 19 3:04 AM
      • 0 Attachment
        While I could not find any new family members. But there is a close match, but they are not supported by any oral tradition, no documentation.

        Although my research allowed me to meet interesting people and expand social circle. This is a great hobby!

        The new tests allow the researchers to understand more deeply our haplotypes. Any additional information has value for them.

        Vladimir

        --- In Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <dshoward@...> wrote:
        >
        > For those of you who are paying to have more and more yDNA tests do you feel you are getting anything of value in return?
        >
        > What value are you getting?
        >
        > Have you found relatives?
        >
        > Has the additional testing helped your genealogy?
        >
        > Do you have a sense you are just wasting your money and learning nothing really useful?
        >
        > Do you feel you are contributing to valuable research?
        >
        > I have become skeptical of the value of the additional tests that Rebekah keeps encouraging.
        >
        > I am interested in your comments.
        >
        > Dave
        >
      • Robert Michelson
        Dave, I have used both FTDNA and 23&me testing.  I added the tests that took me from Q1b to Q1b1a. So what?  I have never been able to find a relative using
        Message 3 of 10 , Aug 19 5:38 AM
        • 0 Attachment
          Dave,

          I have used both FTDNA and 23&me testing.  I added the tests that took me from Q1b to Q1b1a. So what?  I have never been able to find a relative using FTDNA even after long discourses with some 'cousins'.
          I found one relative through 23&me.  Since they added the percentage of DNA matched, I was able to focus on those that had a higher percentage. At 1.5% I found a second cousin once removed.
          I only have about 400 name on my family tree database with a number of threads only going back to great great grandfathers.  One goes back to GGF9 born in 1671.  Perhaps if I had a larger database, I could make more matches.
          I would like to contribute to research and have sent a small amount to fund Rebekah, but being retired, I am not putting more money into DNA.  I cannot.
          I also cannot take the time to correspond with all the 2,000 or so DNA cousins that the two systems have matched.  Even ones with higher percentage (I have some with 4plus % DNA match do not often return E-mails).  I suspect that some individuals are professional genealogists putting in their clients information (and samples).  If their client drops their services for whatever reason, they do not bother to reply to requests for more information.

          Bob Michelson
          K1a9 (23&me)   K (FTDNA)
          Q1b (23&me)    Q1b1a (FTDNA)
        • Kim Ephraim
          I have not done any additional testing. I found relatives on ancestry.com. She helped me find my original American ancestry and where he came from and
          Message 4 of 10 , Aug 19 8:36 AM
          • 0 Attachment
            I have not done any additional testing.    I found relatives on ancestry.com.     She helped me find my original American ancestry and where he came from and from there I found my Jewish family.     I think the info may be valuable to researcher, but may not impact me personally.  I can trace my family now to 1625 but I don't find any links to anyone.  There aren't many Dutch Jews in the group.     
            I suppose only time will tell what all this data means
            Sent from my iPhone

            On Aug 18, 2011, at 11:46 PM, "Dave" <dshoward@...> wrote:

             

            For those of you who are paying to have more and more yDNA tests do you feel you are getting anything of value in return?

            What value are you getting?

            Have you found relatives?

            Has the additional testing helped your genealogy?

            Do you have a sense you are just wasting your money and learning nothing really useful?

            Do you feel you are contributing to valuable research?

            I have become skeptical of the value of the additional tests that Rebekah keeps encouraging.

            I am interested in your comments.

            Dave

          • FSRODEN@aol.com
            The cost of the tests should be seen as making a contribution to the development of a significant database of genetic information. The tests can provide the
            Message 5 of 10 , Aug 19 8:52 AM
            • 0 Attachment
              The cost of the tests should be seen as making a contribution to the development of a significant database of genetic information.  The tests can provide the individual with some interesting demographic details about some aspects of genetic origin.  The more people get information in the database, the more any of us will be able to learn about our genetic information and our "relatedness."  But anyone who purchases any of these tests with the intention of finding long-lost "recent" relatives (say, within the last 10 generations) is barking up the wrong tree.  The databases are currently way too small for that, and the information they provide not nearly specific enough (that's the limits of science at this historical moment).  Having said that, there's definitely a "more is more" philosophy here: if you're willing to make your genetic information available, you will in fact be contributing to future specificity -- making the search potential greater and more meaningful.  So it's overall an investment in the future of genetic research, and perhaps the future of genealogical research (although this is less easily demonstrated). 

              Having said this, I've done a basic test for my own curiosity, to get a taste of the current genetics industry (as it's being popularized and marketed), and to contribute what my profile has to offer to the project.  I have no intention of purchasing further tests.  They don't particularly interest me. For those people who are committed to this project, it might be a good contribution to the growth of knowledge, but the results available at this time shouldn't be looked upon as something to provide us with significant personal, familial answers now.  Please see my statement above about that.

              Regards,
              Fred
              (just for those curious: undergraduate training in biochemistry/genetics, graduate degrees in the humanities -- I'm not a scientist, but a cultural historian who's interested in this phenomenon, our desire to search for "origins" and "family")


              -----Original Message-----
              From: Kim Ephraim <kephrm@...>
              To: Ashkenazi-Q <Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:36 am
              Subject: Re: [Ashkenazi-Q] For Those Paying for Upgrades - Good Return on Your Investment?



              I have not done any additional testing.    I found relatives on ancestry.com.     She helped me find my original American ancestry and where he came from and from there I found my Jewish family.     I think the info may be valuable to researcher, but may not impact me personally.  I can trace my family now to 1625 but I don't find any links to anyone.  There aren't many Dutch Jews in the group.     
              I suppose only time will tell what all this data means
              Sent from my iPhone

              On Aug 18, 2011, at 11:46 PM, "Dave" <dshoward@...> wrote:

               
              For those of you who are paying to have more and more yDNA tests do you feel you are getting anything of value in return?

              What value are you getting?

              Have you found relatives?

              Has the additional testing helped your genealogy?

              Do you have a sense you are just wasting your money and learning nothing really useful?

              Do you feel you are contributing to valuable research?

              I have become skeptical of the value of the additional tests that Rebekah keeps encouraging.

              I am interested in your comments.

              Dave



            • NADENE GOLDFOOT
              Hi Dave, Which Dave are you? I know of two. For those of you who are paying to have more and more yDNA tests do you feel you are getting anything of value in
              Message 6 of 10 , Aug 19 8:57 AM
              • 0 Attachment
                Hi Dave,
                Which Dave are you?  I know of two. 
                For those of you who are paying to have more and more yDNA tests do you feel you are getting anything of value in return?  Barry Zwick kept in close contact with us as to who was a Q1b, background, etc and anything new about what has been discovered about our group, but he has since passed away and no one has stepped up to the plate like he was doing.  I valued his connection with us. 
                He wasn't a geneticist but  kept in contact with very interesting findings.

                What value are you getting? I know we're an exceedingly small group; Jews make up only less than 1% of the world population and we Q1b Jews are only 5% of that 1% so I think I've found the only other close relative already.  What I want to get is more information about us and hopefully how far back our common ancestor goes and where he was.  I want history of our family origins. 

                Have you found relatives?  I was checking on a person who also had our surname and so had both my brother and the other person tested with the 25 allele test.  We were connected.  I've gone up to 67 alleles and a STR test to find that we remain at a distance of 3.  Since then I've worked more on our genealogy and have come to the conclusion that we are 3rd cousins.  I did not have the other person tested with the STR test.  There is no other person so far that is this close to us. 

                Has the additional testing helped your genealogy?  As I stated above, it has in establishing a connection with this other close party.It has told me only that in shorthand, we are classified as  Q1b1 or  P36+2 + M378+ L245+.  Being we have only had a distance of 3 with the other party tested, I figure he would fall under the same classification as well.  No, it hasn't told me anymore information other than this is a narrower group that we beong to.  Who this narrower group is has not been defined. 

                Do you have a sense you are just wasting your money and learning nothing really useful? I'd love to know just where we originated from; Khazaria, or where.  I hoped that the testing would help.  The STR test hasn't told me anything more other than now we are definitely Q1b1 classification.  Knowing our origins would tell me so much more about our family's history.  We are different from J1 or J2's origins. 

                Do you feel you are contributing to valuable research? Yes, if anything, I think our tests are contributing to research. 

                I have become skeptical of the value of the additional tests that Rebekah keeps encouraging. I just hope the information is being shared and used by some great historians.  You have to have an excellent  background of our Jewish history to put all this to good use, I feel.  It's certainly made me delve into our history in trying to solve our mystery of our origins.  I keep a blog as suggested by Jewish genealogists of my findings of history of Jews as well as of who is a Goldfoot/fus/;fuss at http://goldfoot_genealogy.blogspot.com  Bennett Greenspan is coming to speak to our Jewish Genealogical Society of Oregon on the 18th of September.  We are sending in questions beforehand.  I sure have questions for him. 

                I am interested in your comments.  A long time ago I thought we knew that we were from Khazaria which seemed to fit into the area of or origins but this has been pooh-poohed so much.  I am on the group of Ashina Royal Dynasty with Alfred Krupa.  That would have made us all part of the Royal Family of Khazaria which was quite interesting.  But then I found out that others didn't agree.  I've searched myself and really can't come up with anything better.  In fact, I just orded my 3rd book on Khazarian Jews written by a Rabbi a long time ago and it should come any day.  We're supposed to have come from the area of the Atlai Mountains which are in parts of Turkey, Siberia and Mongolia. Well, Turkey today is very close to Israel.   My grandfather came from Lithuania and Russia was on his 1910 census.  I guess we just need to know more about  other Jewish onclaves in that area  It's a mystery.  I just hope I live long enough to learn some facts. 
                 
                I have since taken the dna test offered by 23&Me out of  Los Angeles.  As a woman, it can test my whole genome and this test also included all the medical history about what my dna can come with.  It was on  a sale-bargain price of about $100, though I keep paying $5 every month for a year on it.  I have had over 1,000 matches on some part of my genome of 23 chromosomes.  We Jews get more matches than anyone.  I keep getting updates on what I could have as a physical problem, and I've particpated in two research projects.   Go figure.  I haven't been able to match anyone as our knowledge of relatives can't go back very far.  But it is intersting to know that so many Jews (and only one was a Q, match me a little and all on my father's side (Jewish).  One other of our group took this test with this company and we two match with just a few chromosomes.  It's interesting. 
                 
                Nadene Goldfoot, sister of David Goldfoot, Phd and 3rd cousin of Ian Goldfoot, Administrator of surname: Goldfoot =Q1b1 or Q-L245

                Dave

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Dave
                Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 10:46 PM
                Subject: [Ashkenazi-Q] For Those Paying for Upgrades - Good Return on Your Investment?

                 

                For those of you who are paying to have more and more yDNA tests do you feel you are getting anything of value in return?

                What value are you getting?

                Have you found relatives?

                Has the additional testing helped your genealogy?

                Do you have a sense you are just wasting your money and learning nothing really useful?

                Do you feel you are contributing to valuable research?

                I have become skeptical of the value of the additional tests that Rebekah keeps encouraging.

                I am interested in your comments.

                Dave

              • Bob
                For those of you who are paying to have more and more yDNA tests do you feel you are getting anything of value in return? What value are you getting? (Y
                Message 7 of 10 , Aug 19 11:43 AM
                • 0 Attachment

                  For those of you who are paying to have more and more yDNA tests do you feel you are getting anything of value in return?

                  What value are you getting? (Y testing A+) (Autosomal –C)

                  Have you found relatives? (Y testing yes) (Autosomal many unknown connections no 100% confirmation after over 100 attempts, just good guesses.)  

                  Has the additional testing helped your genealogy? (I have 100 plus Y markers & the “Walk on the Y side testing” long term this may help determine European & deep history origins.  The 23 & Me autosomal help get a composite picture & proved Ashkenazi heritage)

                  Do you have a sense you are just wasting your money and learning nothing really useful? (Sometimes I think that 23 & Me is a waste as it is a very complicated puzzle with many missing pieces, I am happy with Y testing as it is more direct.)

                  Do you feel you are contributing to valuable research? (Yes, yet some of the benefit will not be known for years.)

                  I have become skeptical of the value of the additional tests that Rebekah keeps encouraging. (I trust Rebekah; but realized there are not pots of gold at the end of every test.) With Walk on the Y side, the broad ranges test will help others save money by targeting relevant markers.)  

                  I am interested in your comments. (Thanks for all you do, Bob Vick, Caldwell TX)

                  Dave

                • Jim Porter
                  Bob, I agree with you as well, and wanted to ask your opinion of 23&me. It seems that I am hearing better responses as well as results there. Thanks Jim
                  Message 8 of 10 , Aug 19 9:40 PM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Bob,

                    I agree with you as well, and wanted to ask your opinion of 23&me. It seems that I am hearing better responses as well as results there. 

                    Thanks

                    Jim 


                    On Aug 19, 2011, at 3:04 AM, systema96 wrote:

                     



                    While I could not find any new family members. But there is a close match, but they are not supported by any oral tradition, no documentation.

                    Although my research allowed me to meet interesting people and expand social circle. This is a great hobby!

                    The new tests allow the researchers to understand more deeply our haplotypes. Any additional information has value for them.

                    Vladimir

                    --- In Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <dshoward@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > For those of you who are paying to have more and more yDNA tests do you feel you are getting anything of value in return?
                    >
                    > What value are you getting?
                    >
                    > Have you found relatives?
                    >
                    > Has the additional testing helped your genealogy?
                    >
                    > Do you have a sense you are just wasting your money and learning nothing really useful?
                    >
                    > Do you feel you are contributing to valuable research?
                    >
                    > I have become skeptical of the value of the additional tests that Rebekah keeps encouraging.
                    >
                    > I am interested in your comments.
                    >
                    > Dave
                    >


                  • Alessandro
                    Dave and all, The answer to all of your questions depends on your purposes. Is your purpose to find close relative? If the classical genealogy is not enough,
                    Message 9 of 10 , Aug 20 10:42 AM
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Dave and all,

                      The answer to all of your questions depends on your purposes.
                      Is your purpose to find close relative? If the classical genealogy is not enough, Y-STR testing at 67 marker perhaps could help you, but you have to know that the real issue is how much large the reference database is. In other words: how many people are having Y-STR testing and want to go public with their results so that you can compare results? Also don't forget that YSTRs can have back-mutation, so you need to test a large set of YSTRs to minimize the risk of "false positive".
                      If you are curious about historical facts, beyond the genealogical time-frame (not necessarily remote, also relatively recent facts) you need YSNPs, but we are not lucky on this side, as we have just a bunch of YSNPs for us.
                      Dave, you know, I was the first one "private individual" (not from academic studies) tested M378+ at Ethnoancestry, even before Dr. Hammer officially released the YCC 2008 tree. L245 was discovered in my sample testing the L153 marker that was in the 23andme chip. I did also the WTY test, from which the L275 and L272 were discovered. I gave my contribute, spending my time and my money, but other persons too. Other persons had their own WTY from which other markers were discovered. Also, other people tested all the new SNPs discovered. I think we all need to thanks all the persons that paid to discover new SNPs and to all the other ones that paid to test and help sort them correctly on the tree. Without the collective intellectual and financial engagement of all of these people (I am just one among many others), we were still Q, not Q1b1a. I think really L245 help us to have a better understanding of our group and of our common roots: among many others positive effects, it helped us to clearly distinguish our group from the other Qs (North-Europeans, Siberians and so on). So we all paid to increase our knowledge and our understanding of us a group: do you think this is enough value? Maybe progress is not as fast as we all like, but we did giant steps from the 2007, when we were just Q.
                      No-one has to pay for tests he/she don't find useful for his/her own research, but if today we know something more about the "genetic roots" of our group, is because someone decided to invest intellectual resources, time and money to help further research. And in the future too, the progress will be made just if someone decides to spend something to help it. This is the price we have to pay, because we are a small and not so interesting group for academic studies: if we want to know more (not for all of us have the same curiosity, obviously) we need to help ourselves because others will not help us a lot.

                      Alessandro.





                      --- In Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <dshoward@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > For those of you who are paying to have more and more yDNA tests do you feel you are getting anything of value in return?
                      >
                      > What value are you getting?
                      >
                      > Have you found relatives?
                      >
                      > Has the additional testing helped your genealogy?
                      >
                      > Do you have a sense you are just wasting your money and learning nothing really useful?
                      >
                      > Do you feel you are contributing to valuable research?
                      >
                      > I have become skeptical of the value of the additional tests that Rebekah keeps encouraging.
                      >
                      > I am interested in your comments.
                      >
                      > Dave
                      >
                    • laryoung
                      Dave: I upgraded from 67 to 111 markers for future cousins and research. I did not know about all of my Q1b cousins when I did the initial test and, as you wll
                      Message 10 of 10 , Aug 23 2:30 PM
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Dave:

                        I upgraded from 67 to 111 markers for future cousins and research. I did not know about all of my Q1b cousins when I did the initial test and, as you wll recall from my first e-mail to the group, I was surprised to discover myself a part of this unique group.

                        So by upgrading I did not expect to find more relatives, I'm happy knowing I have all of you as cousins, nor did I expect the advanced test to help my genealogy (unless some of you have shovel-shaped incisors) and I do not feel that I wasted the money.

                        Some day an archaeologist is going to find some graves in the Steppes of Russia, or the Ukraine, or Siberia, and our dna results will match and fill in some of the gaps in the Q1b history.

                        Also, Dave, you indicated you would pick up where Barry left off on our monthly updates, when can your cousins expect the next issue? I look forward to it.

                        Larry Young
                      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.