Thank you so much for this very interesting reply!
I had never heard this etymology, but I do know that there were definitely
road-pavers among my ancestors, as supported by census records and recollections
by my great-grandfather (I'll have to review my tapes).
have no good way of verifying my own or anyone else's guesses about the name
until I do a better test to determine relatedness with the various clusters of
Q1b lineages I see on the FTDNA maps for this project. I do seem to share some
autosomal DNA with Nadene Goldfoot according to 23andme, so perhaps we will turn
out to be Litvaks instead of Yekkes after all!
I've informed the family
of this news, who are now outside repaving driveways in celebration as we speak.
--- In Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com, "D
Bremridge" <drdenver@...> wrote:
> KINDLY PASS THIS MESSAGE
ON TO D.J. WALETZKY AS I AM UNABLE TO FORWARD IT TO HIM DIRECT.
Hi D.J. Waletzky
> I received a copy of your ery interesting email and
forwarded it to a colleague of mine Dr Cyril Hromnik who is a "Solvak" from
> outside the capital of Slovakia which is Bratislawa. Once upon a time
it was all part of the bigger picture of CZECHOSLOVIA.
> Cyril is a Doctor
of Ancient History and Linguistics, graduating at Charles University Prague and
also at Syracuse University
> New York, and has been doing research in
Indo-African Ancent History for the past 30 years which brought him to live
> Cape Town South Africa. As a finely educated European he speaks many
languages hence his rather simple reply to your
> question about the
meaning of your surname - see below.
> Do you remember the name of the
Polish President who died in the aircrash last year ?
> I think it was
very similar if not the same surname as yours. Suggest you check this
> In Cape Town we have a Jewish family with the surname "Wilensky" -
probably all from the same root.
> "I would rather think that
Waletzky or Walecki comes from walec = steam roller or any other roller. This
would seem more likely both in Polish and in Slovak and Czech."
> Dr Cyril
> By the way, what is your first name?
> Denise Bremridge (nee Goldfoot / Goldfus / "Zolotaya
> Cape Town
> South Africa
> On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 4:56 PM, D Bremridge
> Dear CAH,
> Could you
possibly forward me an answer to the question below:-
> " am also
abviously looking for anyone with a family connection to the name Waletzky or
Walecki or coming from the towns of Mezritch or Biala Podlaska (Biale). One of
the major questions I'm trying to answer for myself is whether Waletzky really
means "from Walcz," a town between Sczeczin and Pila in Pomerania, as the
literal translation of the Polish would suggest. I would be very interested in
comparing genes with any Wolinsky Q1bs! "
> D. J.
> Much appreciated
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: zkynyc
> To: Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 5:10 PM
> Subject: [Ashkenazi-Q]
Doing a genetic genealogy project
> A few months ago I started doing a small documentary
film project about my family history and our relatively unusual last name. By
happenstance, four generations of Waletzkys have all lived within seven blocks
of my current apartment, which is down the street from the synagogue where my
(paternal) grandfather was bar mitzvahed and married my grandmother. We've also
been Yiddish speakers and deeply involved in preserving Yiddish language and
secular-Jewish culture here in New York since my great-grandfather came here
from Mezritch (Miedzyrzec Podlaski, Poland) at the turn of the last
> When 23andme offered their promotional discount, I
could finally afford to have some genetic testing done, and while I was waiting
for my results I did plenty of the same research about Jewish genetics I suspect
many of the members of this group have done themselves.
> So when
I tested Q1b, it raised all sorts of questions that I'd like to ask the group;
anything discussed here would be on background and I wouldn't quote anyone
without their permission in any finished product, as I think this might be
expanded into a feature-length documentary.
> The most obvious
question is whether you think Q1b does in fact imply Khazarian ancestry. I've
wondered about that ever since I found a copy of Arthur Koestler's book in my
synagogue's library when I was 8 and read it cover-to-cover. Reading the recent
messages on this board seems to reflect consensus away from a Khazarian
hypothesis, but there haven't been any concrete theories set forth as far as I
> From my own analysis, I'd say that Khazaria is the most
likely source, given the paucity of other concrete theories. It's important to
note that the Most Recent Common Ancestor is not necessarily the same thing as
the first Jewish Q1b. Given the size and breadth of the sample, I think that
assuming a single common ancestor as the introduction to the Jewish population
doesn't make as much sense for this clade as it does for, say, the distinctively
Jewish clades of I2b or N, which are much smaller.
bottlenecks and genetic drift, reaching the proportion of Q1b to the rest of the
Jewish population and in many major groups (Ashkenazi, Anatolian, Moroccan,
Iraqi, etc.) would be relatively difficult for a single ancestor in the last 800
years. I estimate Q as 3.97% of the population, averaging the proportions
reported by Shen, Semino, Hammer, Nebel, Behar and others.
Q1b were a founding Mediterranean lineage, I think we would see it better
represented among non-Jewish Italian and Palestinian lineages where it is
absent. If it were connected to Sephardic Jews, we would see it among non-Jewish
or traditionally converso families in Spain, Portugal, Mexico/New Mexico and
Cabo Verde, even if genetic drift had reduced its presence among Sephardim to
Moroccans exclusively. (Compare this to the presence of G2c in southwestern
Hispanic populations who are rediscovering their Jewish roots.)
I think the hypothesis that fits the evidence best is for a small number of very
closely related founders, introduced to the Jewish gene pool several generations
before the accepted TMRCA of 800 years ago. I also think, having looked at
countless records from JRI-Poland and Jewishgen.org, that 23 years per
generation might represent a mean average, but it may not be a canonical guide
when it comes to Y-DNA transmission (as opposed to mtDNA transmission). I've
seen records of men as old as 54 having children to younger wives. Most women
since 1830 seem to have been married around 19-23, but the ages of the men range
upward much more widely, and couples tended to have many children over several
years, up to half of whom died in infancy. As time goes on, the average age per
generation also seems to increase among any population.
where I was in my research about Q when I got my results a few weeks ago. Since
then I've read the debates here and investigated the Ashina dynasty theory a
little more closely. After dismissing it originally, I've come to the conclusion
that it is a definite probability. As a long-time proposition better, I think
the odds are better-than-even but I wouldn't put any specific numbers on the
> The Ashina had a discernable reason to keep a documented
Altaic bloodline vibrant yet restricted from the general Gokturk/Khazar
population, are documented to have joined the Jewish people about 1300 years ago
in a relatively small yet significant number, four thousand nobles, comparable
to the 500 families of the Ashina recorded in Chinese texts. Now, I don't
attribute any mythical importance to the Ashina bloodline or consider ancient
manuscripts gospel; history is usually written by the victors and often
unreliable. I'm a bigger fan of the non-mythological claims in these texts that
can be corroborated with other contemporary sources and scientific
> Q1b seems to have distributions focused in the
Ukraine, Hungary and Lithuania, all recorded to have had a Khazar influx in
Jewish sources. The tradition of being a Levite (which I actually rediscovered
in the family, who had maintained we were Israel my whole lifetime) that seems
particular to Q1b can't be a coincidence, although the connection of this fact
to Khazarian origin is dubious. The near absence of Q1b outside of the Jewish
population may be a result of extermination of the Ashina dynasty for political
reasons; most of the line of the eastern khaganate is noted to have been
murdered by their successors in those confederations. The last documented
Ashinas all push out west, just as Q1b has an obvious westward pattern of
expansion before the TMRCA of our Ashkenazi sub-clade. The Silk Road and the
Radhanites both went through the Jewish Khazar kingdom, further compounding
> Again, I think the odds are better-than-even,
but I think that in order to make a definitive claim one way or the other we'd
need a testable hypothesis and, I think, stronger alternate scenarios to test
> If anyone has thoughts and hopefully critiques, reply
and/or let me know if you might want to be interviewed on film? We could easily
use Skype or other video chat programs.
> Also, as I've been
reading the messages here, I'd like to offer my assistance to anyone who has
questions about Jewish languages, culture or religion who can't find answers
elsewhere. I'm a native Yiddish speaker and have a (degraded, at this point)
understanding of Hebrew and some Aramaic. Although I'm not a practicing Jew, I
did attend an Orthodox Yeshiva in Brooklyn and am well-versed in Jewish history
> By the way, I am also abviously looking for
anyone with a family connection to the name Waletzky or Walecki or coming from
the towns of Mezritch or Biala Podlaska (Biale). One of the major questions I'm
trying to answer for myself is whether Waletzky really means "from Walcz," a
town between Sczeczin and Pila in Pomerania, as the literal translation of the
Polish would suggest. I would be very interested in comparing genes with any
> D. J. Waletzky
P. S. Please contact me by e-mail if you would like to see a link to the
7-minute trailer I put together for the family this Passover. It contains some
NSFW language and a terrible haircut on my part for several minutes.
> __________ NOD32 6071 (20110426)
> This message was checked by NOD32