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RE: [Ashkenazi-Q] Dave Howard's Ashkenazi Jewish DNA - See Snapshot

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  • Bob
    Dave, Your results are interesting with many more declared Ashkenazi s than mine below. Ancestry Color Percent of Bob Vick s Genome Covered Not declared
    Message 1 of 8 , Nov 23, 2010

      Dave,

       

        Your results are interesting with many more declared Ashkenazi’s than mine below.

       

      Ancestry

      Color

      Percent of Bob Vick's Genome Covered

      Not declared Ashkenazi Jewish

       

      49.3%

      50.3%

      Declared Ashkenazi Jewish

       

      0.2%

      1.2%

       

       These results are at maximum, including US & Canadian Ancestors which brought up some X chromosome hits. When I use the 2 grandparents from the same country the hits fall way back, with mostly Polish Ashkenazi connections.  I only know of Czech blood in my paper trail lines.

       

       I guess the point above could be that 50% of my ancestors forgot where they came from, or likely never knew as their parents protected them from histories realities.

       

      Cheers, Bob

       

      PS My brother has 87% of the same DNA that line up the same way as mine only 56% of the time in segments. He matches people that I do not match, so it is possible to have no segment alignment with some distant cousins, which a sibling might match on.

       

       


      From: Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Dave
      Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 12:01 AM
      To: Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [Ashkenazi-Q] Dave Howard's Askenazi Jewish DNA - See Snapshot

       

       

      Bob,

      Here are my results when I indicated that 2 of my grand parents were from the same country.

      My father was Ashkenazi Jewish. My mother is an American for generations back. She converted so she and my father could be married by a Rabbi.

      Click on This Link to See the 23andME results.
       
      Thanks for telling me about this report.

      Dave

      --- In Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com , "Bob" <Vick@...> wrote:

      >
      > Dave,
      >
      >
      >
      > When I use the "Advanced" tab under labs/ancestry finder,
      > https://www.23andme.com/you/labs/ancestry_finder/
      >
      >
      >
      > I find that I am related too many "declared Ashkenazi Jews"
      & 7 - 8.3 % "not
      > declared", the totals of both covers just about every chromosome. I
      think
      > those matches come from way back in the 1700's when my Scheib ancestors
      > changes their name to Shipe here in
      w:st="on">America . A Shipe was a footman for
      > George Washington, so I like to think that my Jewish ancestors were trying
      > to get even with oppression way back then.
      >
      >
      >
      > My point is your point that many Jews did choose to mix with others;
      > however Ancestry Finder proves that the genetic mix lives on, even if
      > diluted.
      >
      >
      >
      > Bob Vick
      >
      > PS to maximize the hits, click the 1 in "# of grandparents from the
      same
      > country", and move the bar to 5cm matches, while clicking the
      Ashkenazi box.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > _____
      >
      > From: Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com
      [mailto: Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com ] On
      > Behalf Of Dave
      > Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2010 6:48 PM
      > To: Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [Ashkenazi-Q] Family/Relative Finder - False Positives for those
      > with As hkenazi ancestors
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > As I explained in my message discussing the Family and Relative Finder
      > programs the theory is to look for long strings of identical DNA.
      >
      > Those of us with Ashkenazi Jewish ancestor have a problem. Our ancestors
      > intermarried for centuries. Very little new DNA came into the group for
      > hundreds and hundreds of years. In fact studies are showing that 60% of
      > all our DNA goes back to the middle east. There may have been an
      > infusion 1,200 years ago from the Khazars but most of the DNA pool has
      > been recycled over and over again.
      >
      > Thus, if both your parents were of Ashkenazi descent they were probably
      > cousins several times over. They may have been 4th and 5th cousins at
      > the same time. Your grandparents were probably cousins several different
      > ways.
      >
      > What this means is that all of us share some l ong strings of matching
      > DNA that are just common to the group of us.
      >
      > The consequence of this is that we will get false positives from either
      > the Family or Relative finder results. They will tell you that someone
      > is your 3rd cousin when they are not even your 5th cousin. This will be
      > just as maddening as having close yDNA matches and not being able to
      > find the common ancestor.
      >
      > This all adds to the fun.
      >
      > I have some folks who match with me with long strings of DNA on 7
      > different chromosomes with a prediction they are my 3rd cousins. We
      > share no surnames or locations within many generations. A third cousin
      > shares a great-great-grandparent.
      >
      > What really is happening is that the person they tell me is my 3rd
      > cousin is really my 5th cousin three times or something similar.
      >
      > Enjoy,
      >
      > Dave
      >

    • aj_levin
      Hi Dave, They ve made an adjustment to Relative Finder, I think around September, that was a slight improvement. Some of us have voiced our concerns even after
      Message 2 of 8 , Nov 23, 2010
        Hi Dave,

        They've made an adjustment to Relative Finder, I think around September, that was a slight improvement. Some of us have voiced our concerns even after that, but my impression is their resources go foremost to the medical side.

        As of today 23andme is doing away with the ancestry-only edition and only selling the complete edition; as a plus they've added people who had had the medical-only version to Relative Finder, and people who had ancestry-only should now be able to download their raw data to run through aftermarket progrmans such as Promethease. If you haven't logged in for a while you might also want to check for more close cousins.

        Our block on chromosome 9 (120,000,000-140,000,000) is not shared with either my paternal grandfather or my mother, so the link should be through my paternal grandmother, so probably an Ashkenazi but possibly a Sephardi link. At 6 cM we definitely share an ancestor, but it's going to be too far back to trace. So far I have only had sucecss with blocks about 9 cM and larger, and preferably at least 11 cM.

        As for your non-linking to Rebekah: I also have some 7th-9th cousins who I have shared genomes with and we have no common DNA showing.

        What happens is your autosomes are inherited in blocks from different ancestors, and while you inherit roughly half your DNA from each parent and roughly a quarter from each grandparent, just a couple of generations earlier you may have inherited many of your genes from one ancestor and none from another. Third cousins will almost always show up, but somewhere around 4th and 5th cousins, it starts to fall off.

        By seventh cousins, there's a fair chance one (and quite possibly both) of you inherited no genes from that ancestor -- or they've been chopped up in recombination, so they're there but not recognizable. That's why it's always good to test the oldest generation available.

        On the other hand if you have inherited _any_ genes from an ancestor beyond about five generations, they may also have been passed down intact with little recombiantion for many generations. That's why a fully Ashkenazi person might see a 5.5 or 6.0 cM block with someone from Spain, say, with converso ancestry, or from Italy; it really does go back 500-600 years to a common Sephardi or Italqi ancestor!

        I hope this helps...

        A.J.

        --- In Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <dshoward@...> wrote:
        >
        > AJ,
        >
        > Thanks so much for this great information.
        > Have you shared your comments with the 23andME people?
        > They always seem to be asking for feedback.
        >
        > I note that you and I share a 6 cM chunk on Chromosome 9.
        > However, that is it.
        >
        > Here is something interesting. Rebekah Canada is my 7th cousin on my mother's side. She and I share no segments.
        >
        > Dave
        >
      • Dave
        Very interesting. That you and your brother are slightly different makes sense. Every sperm and every egg have slightly different mixes of the chromosomes.
        Message 3 of 8 , Nov 23, 2010
          Very interesting. That you and your brother are slightly different makes sense. Every sperm and every egg have slightly different mixes of the chromosomes.

          --- In Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com, "Bob" <Vick@...> wrote:
          >
          > Dave,
          >
          >
          >
          > Your results are interesting with many more declared Ashkenazi's than mine
          > below.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Ancestry
          >
          > Color
          >
          > Percent of Bob Vick's Genome Covered
          >
          >
          > Not declared Ashkenazi Jewish
          >
          >
          >
          > 49.3%
          >
          > -
          >
          > 50.3%
          >
          >
          > Declared Ashkenazi Jewish
          >
          >
          >
          > 0.2%
          >
          > -
          >
          > 1.2%
          >
          >
          >
          > These results are at maximum, including US & Canadian Ancestors which
          > brought up some X chromosome hits. When I use the 2 grandparents from the
          > same country the hits fall way back, with mostly Polish Ashkenazi
          > connections. I only know of Czech blood in my paper trail lines.
          >
          >
          >
          > I guess the point above could be that 50% of my ancestors forgot where they
          > came from, or likely never knew as their parents protected them from
          > histories realities.
          >
          >
          >
          > Cheers, Bob
          >
          >
          >
          > PS My brother has 87% of the same DNA that line up the same way as mine only
          > 56% of the time in segments. He matches people that I do not match, so it is
          > possible to have no segment alignment with some distant cousins, which a
          > sibling might match on.
          >
          >
          >
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