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The Problem With Q (Economics)

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  • Rebekah Canada
    Hi, The other day I said to the Q list Of course, there are some people who take a negative view of all things Q. They asked me to explain. OK. I was
    Message 1 of 3 , Dec 12, 2009
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      Hi,

      The other day I said to the Q list " Of course, there are some people who take a negative view of all things Q. "

      They asked me to explain. OK. I was having a bad morning the other day but... Here is the reality of Q research inside the structure of a for profit business model. I am sorry if this sounds harsh.

      We are not profitable.

      Take for example the current Q Deep Clade test. It almost did not happen. Why? Because it was expensive to develop. 

      Developing a primer for a SNP costs about $100. To do the Deep Clade test for Q FTDNA had to develop primers for all of the SNPs on the current Q tree. That is 18 SNPs so $100 x 18 = $1,800.

      That development cost will hopefully be made up by the money from people ordering the test. To date there have been 73 people in the project to order the test from 'scratch.' I do not know how many there have been outside the project. I do not think that after the cost of actually running the test (supplies) and processing the test (people) that the Deep Clade Q test has actually paid for itself yet. It has bee 16 months. It was extremely generous of Bennett Greenspan to authorize that panel to be developed.

      For each of the L SNPs that has come from 23andMe testing/discovery there is the same problem. 

      L53
      L54
      L55
      L56
      L57
      L153/L245 (Same Primer == same cost)
      L213
      L214
      L215

      That is another $100 x 9 = $900 that FTDNA has spent in development. That money is supposed to be made up in sales. Redundant SNPs do not sell. Thus if it looks like we are asking for a redundant SNP then I hear about it --not from Bennett Greenspan as he has been absolutely wonderful.

      If we were a big group like R1b, I1, ect. then this would not be such an issue. As it is... Well right now Roberta Estes and Ed Martin are trying to pull together enough money for the Y-DNA Haplogroup C Project to pay for the cost of developing a Deep Clade test for C out of project funds.

      When it comes to testing something like the correct location of M323 then my first words to Bennett Greenspan are "I would like to pay for..." I ply my willingness to reach into my own pocket and all things I do for FTDNA to the greatest extent possible.

      It is not always fun. We are moving the science forward from inside the for profit business model far faster than academic researchers are with their work. So be it... but do not forget it for a second.

      Regards,
      Rebekah
      Volunteer Administrator 
      Q Y-DNA Project, ect. 
    • BJMVA
      Rebekah, I have had some bad days and you have forgiven me! In my situation, is it sensible to order a deep clade test, or would a donation be better? I also
      Message 2 of 3 , Dec 12, 2009
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        Rebekah, I have had some bad days and you have forgiven me! In my situation, is it sensible to order a deep clade test, or would a donation be better?  I also just ordered the complete mtdna for myself.  Of all of us in the Q group who are searching, what amount of contribution would it take if we all contributed something?  I know that this would be a short term fix, but are we in danger of our research being cut off?
         
        BJ
         
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2009 5:20 PM
        Subject: [Ashkenazi-Q] The Problem With Q (Economics)

         

        Hi,


        The other day I said to the Q list " Of course, there are some people who take a negative view of all things Q. "

        They asked me to explain. OK. I was having a bad morning the other day but... Here is the reality of Q research inside the structure  of a for profit business  model. I am sorry if this sounds harsh.

        We are not profitable.

        Take for example the current Q Deep Clade test. It almost did not happen. Why? Because it was expensive to develop. 

        Developing a primer for a SNP costs about $100. To do the Deep Clade test for Q FTDNA had to develop primers for all of the SNPs on the current Q tree. That is 18 SNPs so $100 x 18 = $1,800.

        That development cost will hopefully be made up by the money from people ordering the test. To date there have been 73 people in the project to order the test from 'scratch.' I do not know how many there have been outside the project. I do not think that after the cost of actually running the test (supplies) and processing the test (people) that the Deep Clade Q test has actually paid for itself yet. It has bee 16 months. It was extremely generous  of Bennett Greenspan to authorize that panel to be developed.

        For each of the L SNPs that has come from 23andMe testing/discovery there is the same problem. 

        L53
        L54
        L55
        L56
        L57
        L153/L245 (Same Primer == same cost)
        L213
        L214
        L215

        That is another $100 x 9 = $900 that FTDNA has spent in development. That money is supposed to be made up in sales. Redundant SNPs do not sell. Thus if it looks like we are asking for a redundant SNP then I hear about it --not from Bennett Greenspan as he has been absolutely wonderful.

        If we were a big group like R1b, I1, ect. then this would not be such an issue. As it is... Well right now Roberta Estes and Ed Martin are trying to pull together enough money for the Y-DNA Haplogroup C Project to pay for the cost of developing a Deep Clade test for C out of project funds.

        When it comes to testing something like the correct location of M323 then my first words to Bennett Greenspan are "I would like to pay for..." I ply my willingness to reach into my own pocket and all things I do for FTDNA to the greatest extent  possible.

        It is not always fun. We are moving the science forward from inside the for profit business  model far faster than academic researchers are with their work. So be it... but do not forget it for a second.

        Regards,
        Rebekah
        Volunteer Administrator 
        Q Y-DNA Project, ect. 

      • Rebekah Canada
        Hi BJ, Thanks. I am opposed to any penny spent without good cause. I think that testing at 23andMe has taken our group as far as it can for Y-DNA research. Nor
        Message 3 of 3 , Dec 12, 2009
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          Hi BJ,

          Thanks. I am opposed to any penny spent without good cause. I think that testing at 23andMe has taken our group as far as it can for Y-DNA research. Nor do I see the point of anyone I can confidently predict as a Q1b taking the current Deep Clade test.

          The next option for us is taking part in a Walk Through the Y-chromosome SNP discovery project. It is expensive. It is also high risk as we may gain nothing from our first or even second try. Thanks to Alessandro and a few other's generosity we have almost enough to pay for two people to take the test. We will need funds though to test any New SNPs that are found.

          FTDNA runs this testing at cost. The advantage to them is that any SNP that is found already has a working primer.

          I will be writing up the details for this list and then the larger group of Q1bs in the Q Project shortly.

          Best,
          Rebekah

          On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 4:45 PM, BJMVA <bjmva@...> wrote:
          


          Rebekah, I have had some bad days and you have forgiven me! In my situation, is it sensible to order a deep clade test, or would a donation be better?  I also just ordered the complete mtdna for myself.  Of all of us in the Q group who are searching, what amount of contribution would it take if we all contributed something?  I know that this would be a short term fix, but are we in danger of our research being cut off?
           
          BJ
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