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Re: Digest Number 446

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  • airdragon2
    ... some ... there is. Well we are talking about a time when religion and often fighting were a big part of daily life. So I can certainly imagine the two
    Message 1 of 23 , Oct 30, 2005
      --- In Asatru-U@yahoogroups.com, <h.jezreell@v...> wrote:
      >
      > on 30/10/05 12:05 PM, Asatru-U@yahoogroups.com wrote:
      >
      > > As many of you may, or may not know, Stav is the authentic Northern
      > > European Mind-Body-Sprirt System (kind of like Western Tai-Chi in
      some
      > > aspects)
      >
      > Is there any actual evidence for this? I would love to see it, if
      there is.

      Well we are talking about a time when religion and often fighting were
      a big part of daily life. So I can certainly imagine the two combining
      especially with Thor being central to both sides of the social
      equation. And I'm fairly certain I have read some documentation to
      that affect but don't remember where.

      As for the lineage thing, very doubtful it goes back to the original
      system. We can thank the Christians for much of the lost cultural
      knowledge in that area. Of course, much heathen knowledge survived
      into the 1500's or later in certain isolated areas so it is certainly
      possible. That is not to say that it isn't based on the original
      system. Even the Jews had a period where they didn't know they were
      Jews or even had a holy book. That is in "Kings" somewhere.
      Interesting book if you read it real
      sloooow.

      There's my two cents for what it is worth.

      Later Brad
    • Lissa
      Hey, Rick, ... You are right, I haven t done more than read a Stav website about 5 years ago, which left me in hysterical giggles. And we all know how much I
      Message 2 of 23 , Oct 31, 2005
        Hey, Rick,

        > Without actually looking at and trying the system, many of your
        > criticisms are a bit off-center- note: I do not say they are not
        > warranted or apt, but if you look at the content you may reserve
        > judgment on the points that seem to bother you most.

        You are right, I haven't done more than read a Stav website about 5 years ago,
        which left me in hysterical giggles. And we all know how much I hate people
        seeing me giggle.

        > >As for Germanic based stuff meaning it is somehow authentic, that would
        > make Bonanza dubbed into German authentic.
        >
        > And so goes Asatru, too, then, eh?

        Yes, actually. Most of what we do is made up, and we'd do well to remember
        it, and where we stole the ideas from in the first place.

        > I never said authentic. Your
        > stumbling block is not based on knowledge of Stav, but rather on
        > past experiences with kooks. Fair enough for you, but not for me
        > this time. I find it a lot less trouble to believe '44th jarl of a
        > family' than Betty had cake and cookies with Thor. I am the 44th
        > direct descendent of my father 43 times removed.
        > (Did I count right?) But that part doesn't really matter to me- it
        > did before I learned more, but it doesn't now. You don't know Dirk,
        > but you do me. I say the system has value to some people and that
        > there is little that contradicts what is known of Germanic lore,
        > history, etc. A Germanic tai chi is, IMO, a very apt description.

        *shrug* Still sounds like bullocks to me, but I've no objection to Stav being
        listed in the course, in part because new folks need to make their own
        decisions (and we are in the business of providing information, not criticism)
        and because it is a slippery slope when you start deleting groups based on
        wackiness. By the time we got done, there wouldn't be any groups left.

        They make a fam trad claim. Fam trad in general is laughable. But, hey, if
        they don't mind people giggling, why should I care?

        > I doubt anyone can 'prove' much of anything about the past beliefs
        > of the Germanic peoples. If evidence cannot be agreed on, it is
        > likely that such is not provable fact, but rather supposition and
        > wishful thinking- or else UPG whose quality is judged by the
        > reputation of the reporter.

        Which is fine. UPG is great. Call it UPG. Reconstruction based on tenuous
        sources is great. We do it all the time. Make your footnotes and prepare to
        defend your logic.

        Germanic tai-chi? Yeah, right. Great if it works for you (and, Rick, that
        you say it isn't bs is the only thing I've heard that makes it remotely
        interesting, since I do trust your judgement). But I'd take Germanic flower
        arranging, based on ancient Japanese flower arranging, more seriously.

        > So there :)!

        I'm wounded! <g>

        [And, I should talk, sitting here at work in an incredibly historically
        inaccurate Viking costume, featuring, among other things, a pair of Uggs and
        horns on my fabric helmet. At least my cloak hides the cell phone.]

        > This would be more fun in person so we could give each other
        > dramatic looks.

        Oh, yes. This really isn't the place to argue about the percentage of
        nuttiness any group has. Perhaps we can continue this at Yule?

        Be well,
        Lissa
      • Grainne Gormlaith
        Hail! I am a new member here and justed wanted to add that I had read about stav, awhile back and I practice the runic yoga positions daily. Grainne ... 5
        Message 3 of 23 , Nov 7, 2005
          Hail!
          I am a new member here and justed wanted to add that I had read
          about stav, awhile back and I practice the runic yoga positions
          daily.
          Grainne
          >
          >
          > Hey, Rick,
          >
          > > Without actually looking at and trying the system, many of your
          > > criticisms are a bit off-center- note: I do not say they are not
          > > warranted or apt, but if you look at the content you may reserve
          > > judgment on the points that seem to bother you most.
          >
          > You are right, I haven't done more than read a Stav website about
          5 years ago,
          > which left me in hysterical giggles. And we all know how much I
          hate people
          > seeing me giggle.
          >
          > > >As for Germanic based stuff meaning it is somehow authentic,
          that would
          > > make Bonanza dubbed into German authentic.
          > >
          > > And so goes Asatru, too, then, eh?
          >
          > Yes, actually. Most of what we do is made up, and we'd do well to
          remember
          > it, and where we stole the ideas from in the first place.
          >
          > > I never said authentic. Your
          > > stumbling block is not based on knowledge of Stav, but rather on
          > > past experiences with kooks. Fair enough for you, but not for me
          > > this time. I find it a lot less trouble to believe '44th jarl of
          a
          > > family' than Betty had cake and cookies with Thor. I am the 44th
          > > direct descendent of my father 43 times removed.
          > > (Did I count right?) But that part doesn't really matter to me-
          it
          > > did before I learned more, but it doesn't now. You don't know
          Dirk,
          > > but you do me. I say the system has value to some people and
          that
          > > there is little that contradicts what is known of Germanic lore,
          > > history, etc. A Germanic tai chi is, IMO, a very apt description.
          >
          > *shrug* Still sounds like bullocks to me, but I've no objection
          to Stav being
          > listed in the course, in part because new folks need to make their
          own
          > decisions (and we are in the business of providing information,
          not criticism)
          > and because it is a slippery slope when you start deleting groups
          based on
          > wackiness. By the time we got done, there wouldn't be any groups
          left.
          >
          > They make a fam trad claim. Fam trad in general is laughable.
          But, hey, if
          > they don't mind people giggling, why should I care?
          >
          > > I doubt anyone can 'prove' much of anything about the past
          beliefs
          > > of the Germanic peoples. If evidence cannot be agreed on, it is
          > > likely that such is not provable fact, but rather supposition
          and
          > > wishful thinking- or else UPG whose quality is judged by the
          > > reputation of the reporter.
          >
          > Which is fine. UPG is great. Call it UPG. Reconstruction based
          on tenuous
          > sources is great. We do it all the time. Make your footnotes and
          prepare to
          > defend your logic.
          >
          > Germanic tai-chi? Yeah, right. Great if it works for you (and,
          Rick, that
          > you say it isn't bs is the only thing I've heard that makes it
          remotely
          > interesting, since I do trust your judgement). But I'd take
          Germanic flower
          > arranging, based on ancient Japanese flower arranging, more
          seriously.
          >
          > > So there :)!
          >
          > I'm wounded! <g>
          >
          > [And, I should talk, sitting here at work in an incredibly
          historically
          > inaccurate Viking costume, featuring, among other things, a pair
          of Uggs and
          > horns on my fabric helmet. At least my cloak hides the cell
          phone.]
          >
          > > This would be more fun in person so we could give each other
          > > dramatic looks.
          >
          > Oh, yes. This really isn't the place to argue about the
          percentage of
          > nuttiness any group has. Perhaps we can continue this at Yule?
          >
          > Be well,
          > Lissa
          >
        • Hugh Long
          Good to hear! I love doing the runes stances....it s something that s so easy to do, I have a hard time finding an excuse to skip them, like I might with other
          Message 4 of 23 , Nov 7, 2005
            Good to hear!

            I love doing the runes stances....it's something
            that's so easy to do, I have a hard time finding an
            excuse to skip them, like I might with other
            excercise.

            My wife has finally started doing them with me, and is
            really anjoying them.

            One great benefit for me, is that when I inhale, and
            bend over to do the Ur stance, my back cracks like I
            pay the chiropracter to do, and feels great! Also,
            Stav stances are wonderful for improving balance.

            We've now published a guide to doing the stances
            online for anyone that's interested.

            http://part-time-projects.com/Stav/content/view/169/51/


            --- Grainne Gormlaith <grainnegormlaith@...>
            wrote:

            > Hail!
            > I am a new member here and justed wanted to add that
            > I had read
            > about stav, awhile back and I practice the runic
            > yoga positions
            > daily.
            > Grainne
            > >
            > >
            > > Hey, Rick,
            > >
            > > > Without actually looking at and trying the
            > system, many of your
            > > > criticisms are a bit off-center- note: I do not
            > say they are not
            > > > warranted or apt, but if you look at the content
            > you may reserve
            > > > judgment on the points that seem to bother you
            > most.
            > >
            > > You are right, I haven't done more than read a
            > Stav website about
            > 5 years ago,
            > > which left me in hysterical giggles. And we all
            > know how much I
            > hate people
            > > seeing me giggle.
            > >
            > > > >As for Germanic based stuff meaning it is
            > somehow authentic,
            > that would
            > > > make Bonanza dubbed into German authentic.
            > > >
            > > > And so goes Asatru, too, then, eh?
            > >
            > > Yes, actually. Most of what we do is made up, and
            > we'd do well to
            > remember
            > > it, and where we stole the ideas from in the first
            > place.
            > >
            > > > I never said authentic. Your
            > > > stumbling block is not based on knowledge of
            > Stav, but rather on
            > > > past experiences with kooks. Fair enough for
            > you, but not for me
            > > > this time. I find it a lot less trouble to
            > believe '44th jarl of
            > a
            > > > family' than Betty had cake and cookies with
            > Thor. I am the 44th
            > > > direct descendent of my father 43 times removed.
            >
            > > > (Did I count right?) But that part doesn't
            > really matter to me-
            > it
            > > > did before I learned more, but it doesn't now.
            > You don't know
            > Dirk,
            > > > but you do me. I say the system has value to
            > some people and
            > that
            > > > there is little that contradicts what is known
            > of Germanic lore,
            > > > history, etc. A Germanic tai chi is, IMO, a very
            > apt description.
            > >
            > > *shrug* Still sounds like bullocks to me, but
            > I've no objection
            > to Stav being
            > > listed in the course, in part because new folks
            > need to make their
            > own
            > > decisions (and we are in the business of providing
            > information,
            > not criticism)
            > > and because it is a slippery slope when you start
            > deleting groups
            > based on
            > > wackiness. By the time we got done, there
            > wouldn't be any groups
            > left.
            > >
            > > They make a fam trad claim. Fam trad in general
            > is laughable.
            > But, hey, if
            > > they don't mind people giggling, why should I
            > care?
            > >
            > > > I doubt anyone can 'prove' much of anything
            > about the past
            > beliefs
            > > > of the Germanic peoples. If evidence cannot be
            > agreed on, it is
            > > > likely that such is not provable fact, but
            > rather supposition
            > and
            > > > wishful thinking- or else UPG whose quality is
            > judged by the
            > > > reputation of the reporter.
            > >
            > > Which is fine. UPG is great. Call it UPG.
            > Reconstruction based
            > on tenuous
            > > sources is great. We do it all the time. Make
            > your footnotes and
            > prepare to
            > > defend your logic.
            > >
            > > Germanic tai-chi? Yeah, right. Great if it works
            > for you (and,
            > Rick, that
            > > you say it isn't bs is the only thing I've heard
            > that makes it
            > remotely
            > > interesting, since I do trust your judgement).
            > But I'd take
            > Germanic flower
            > > arranging, based on ancient Japanese flower
            > arranging, more
            > seriously.
            > >
            > > > So there :)!
            > >
            > > I'm wounded! <g>
            > >
            > > [And, I should talk, sitting here at work in an
            > incredibly
            > historically
            > > inaccurate Viking costume, featuring, among other
            > things, a pair
            > of Uggs and
            > > horns on my fabric helmet. At least my cloak
            > hides the cell
            > phone.]
            > >
            > > > This would be more fun in person so we could
            > give each other
            > > > dramatic looks.
            > >
            > > Oh, yes. This really isn't the place to argue
            > about the
            > percentage of
            > > nuttiness any group has. Perhaps we can continue
            > this at Yule?
            > >
            > > Be well,
            > > Lissa
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >


            ______________________________________________________________
            Hugh B. Long, MSc., PMP
            http://www.stav-usa.com The Northern European Mind-Body-Spirit System


            ___________________________________________________________
          • Nathan Pinkerton
            ... that is cool... although, do you know if anyone has done one with the Elder Futhark? Nathan -- If, at first, you don t succeed, get a bigger hammer.
            Message 5 of 23 , Nov 8, 2005
              On 11/7/05, Hugh Long <hugh_b_long@...> wrote:
              > We've now published a guide to doing the stances
              > online for anyone that's interested.
              >
              > http://part-time-projects.com/Stav/content/view/169/51/

              that is cool... although, do you know if anyone has done one with the
              Elder Futhark?

              Nathan

              --
              If, at first, you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer.
            • Hugh Long
              Actually I do...there s a guy named Tyrsson in the Odinic Rite. He published the first 8 stances in the Last OR magazine, and will publish the other 16 over
              Message 6 of 23 , Nov 8, 2005
                Actually I do...there's a guy named Tyrsson in the Odinic Rite. He published the first 8 stances in the Last OR magazine, and will publish the other 16 over the next year....

                If you go onto the Odinic Rite Yahoo group you can contact him there.

                Nathan Pinkerton <npinkerton@...> wrote:
                On 11/7/05, Hugh Long <hugh_b_long@...> wrote:
                > We've now published a guide to doing the stances
                > online for anyone that's interested.
                >
                > http://part-time-projects.com/Stav/content/view/169/51/

                that is cool... although, do you know if anyone has done one with the
                Elder Futhark?

                Nathan

                --
                If, at first, you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer.


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                ______________________________________________________________
                Hugh B. Long, MSc., PMP
                http://www.stav-usa.com The Northern European Mind-Body-Spirit System


                ___________________________________________________________












                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Nathan Pinkerton
                ... I did a search on the yahoo groups website, and I went to the Odinic Rite website, and I was unable to find the yahoo group for them either place. Nathan
                Message 7 of 23 , Nov 8, 2005
                  On 11/8/05, Hugh Long <hugh_b_long@...> wrote:
                  > Actually I do...there's a guy named Tyrsson in the Odinic Rite. He published the first 8 stances in the Last OR magazine, and will publish the other 16 over the next year....
                  >
                  > If you go onto the Odinic Rite Yahoo group you can contact him there.

                  I did a search on the yahoo groups website, and I went to the Odinic
                  Rite website, and I was unable to find the yahoo group for them either
                  place.

                  Nathan

                  --
                  If, at first, you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer.
                • Grainne Gormlaith
                  I enjoyed the website! I am planning on signing up for the Ice and Fire USA membership.
                  Message 8 of 23 , Nov 9, 2005
                    I enjoyed the website! I am planning on signing up for the Ice and
                    Fire USA membership.

                    Hugh Long <hugh_b_long@y...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Good to hear!
                    >
                    > I love doing the runes stances....it's something
                    > that's so easy to do, I have a hard time finding an
                    > excuse to skip them, like I might with other
                    > excercise.
                    >
                    > My wife has finally started doing them with me, and is
                    > really anjoying them.
                    >
                    > One great benefit for me, is that when I inhale, and
                    > bend over to do the Ur stance, my back cracks like I
                    > pay the chiropracter to do, and feels great! Also,
                    > Stav stances are wonderful for improving balance.
                    >
                    > We've now published a guide to doing the stances
                    > online for anyone that's interested.
                    >
                    > http://part-time-projects.com/Stav/content/view/169/51/
                    >
                    >
                  • Grainne Gormlaith
                    Try the website Runes Alphabet of Mystery http://www.sunnyway.com/runes/index.html Then scroll down to the links, Stadhagaldr - Runic Yoga
                    Message 9 of 23 , Nov 9, 2005
                      Try the website Runes Alphabet of Mystery
                      http://www.sunnyway.com/runes/index.html
                      Then scroll down to the links,
                      Stadhagaldr - Runic Yoga http://www.sunnyway.com/runes/stadha.html
                      and Stáv - Runic Martial Arts http://www.sunnyway.com/runes/stav.html


                      --- In Asatru-U@yahoogroups.com, Nathan Pinkerton <npinkerton@g...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > On 11/7/05, Hugh Long <hugh_b_long@y...> wrote:
                      > > We've now published a guide to doing the stances
                      > > online for anyone that's interested.
                      > >
                      > > http://part-time-projects.com/Stav/content/view/169/51/
                      >
                      > that is cool... although, do you know if anyone has done one with the
                      > Elder Futhark?
                      >
                      > Nathan
                      >
                      > --
                      > If, at first, you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer.
                      >
                    • Hugh Long
                      Yes, I love that site! Tons of great info. Unfortunatly his links to the Stav community are out of date and many are broken. But the info is great. ...
                      Message 10 of 23 , Nov 9, 2005
                        Yes, I love that site! Tons of great info.

                        Unfortunatly his links to the Stav community are out
                        of date and many are broken. But the info is great.



                        --- Grainne Gormlaith <grainnegormlaith@...>
                        wrote:

                        >
                        > Try the website Runes Alphabet of Mystery
                        > http://www.sunnyway.com/runes/index.html
                        > Then scroll down to the links,
                        > Stadhagaldr - Runic Yoga
                        > http://www.sunnyway.com/runes/stadha.html
                        > and Stáv - Runic Martial Arts
                        > http://www.sunnyway.com/runes/stav.html
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In Asatru-U@yahoogroups.com, Nathan Pinkerton
                        > <npinkerton@g...>
                        > wrote:
                        > >
                        > > On 11/7/05, Hugh Long <hugh_b_long@y...> wrote:
                        > > > We've now published a guide to doing the stances
                        > > > online for anyone that's interested.
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        >
                        http://part-time-projects.com/Stav/content/view/169/51/
                        > >
                        > > that is cool... although, do you know if anyone
                        > has done one with the
                        > > Elder Futhark?
                        > >
                        > > Nathan
                        > >
                        > > --
                        > > If, at first, you don't succeed, get a bigger
                        > hammer.
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >


                        ______________________________________________________________
                        Hugh B. Long, MSc., PMP
                        http://www.stav-usa.com The Northern European Mind-Body-Spirit System


                        ___________________________________________________________
                      • Hugh Long
                        Grainne, we d love to have you! Hope you can make the spring seminar in April. Hugh ... http://part-time-projects.com/Stav/content/view/169/51/ ...
                        Message 11 of 23 , Nov 9, 2005
                          Grainne, we'd love to have you!

                          Hope you can make the spring seminar in April.

                          Hugh

                          --- Grainne Gormlaith <grainnegormlaith@...>
                          wrote:

                          > I enjoyed the website! I am planning on signing up
                          > for the Ice and
                          > Fire USA membership.
                          >
                          > Hugh Long <hugh_b_long@y...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Good to hear!
                          > >
                          > > I love doing the runes stances....it's something
                          > > that's so easy to do, I have a hard time finding
                          > an
                          > > excuse to skip them, like I might with other
                          > > excercise.
                          > >
                          > > My wife has finally started doing them with me,
                          > and is
                          > > really anjoying them.
                          > >
                          > > One great benefit for me, is that when I inhale,
                          > and
                          > > bend over to do the Ur stance, my back cracks like
                          > I
                          > > pay the chiropracter to do, and feels great! Also,
                          > > Stav stances are wonderful for improving balance.
                          > >
                          > > We've now published a guide to doing the stances
                          > > online for anyone that's interested.
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          http://part-time-projects.com/Stav/content/view/169/51/
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >


                          ______________________________________________________________
                          Hugh B. Long, MSc., PMP
                          http://www.stav-usa.com The Northern European Mind-Body-Spirit System


                          ___________________________________________________________
                        • Rick A. Riedlinger
                          I had hoped this thread would pass on its own. Asatru-U s purpose has been fulfilled. Perhaps it is time to take this thread to a Stav site? Rick
                          Message 12 of 23 , Nov 9, 2005
                            I had hoped this thread would pass on its own.

                            Asatru-U's purpose has been fulfilled. Perhaps it is time to take this
                            thread to a Stav site?

                            Rick
                          • Hugh Long
                            no problem... ... ______________________________________________________________ Hugh B. Long, MSc., PMP http://www.stav-usa.com The Northern European
                            Message 13 of 23 , Nov 9, 2005
                              no problem...

                              --- "Rick A. Riedlinger" <heathensailor@...>
                              wrote:

                              > I had hoped this thread would pass on its own.
                              >
                              > Asatru-U's purpose has been fulfilled. Perhaps it is
                              > time to take this
                              > thread to a Stav site?
                              >
                              > Rick
                              >
                              >


                              ______________________________________________________________
                              Hugh B. Long, MSc., PMP
                              http://www.stav-usa.com The Northern European Mind-Body-Spirit System


                              ___________________________________________________________
                            • Manny Olds
                              ... Perhaps someone could post a summary here of the information and links that we have seen that would be suitable for dropping into an Asa-U document. --
                              Message 14 of 23 , Nov 9, 2005
                                On 11/9/05, Rick A. Riedlinger <heathensailor@...> wrote:
                                > I had hoped this thread would pass on its own.
                                >
                                > Asatru-U's purpose has been fulfilled. Perhaps it is time to take this
                                > thread to a Stav site?
                                >

                                Perhaps someone could post a summary here of the information and links
                                that we have seen that would be suitable for dropping into an Asa-U
                                document.

                                --

                                Manny Olds (oldsma@...) of Silver Spring, Maryland, USA
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