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Re: [Asatru-U] Digest Number 446

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  • h.jezreell@virgin.net
    ... Is there any actual evidence for this? I would love to see it, if there is. Jez -- Jezreell has studied and practised Anglosaxon heathenry for over thirty
    Message 1 of 23 , Oct 30, 2005
      on 30/10/05 12:05 PM, Asatru-U@yahoogroups.com wrote:

      > As many of you may, or may not know, Stav is the authentic Northern
      > European Mind-Body-Sprirt System (kind of like Western Tai-Chi in some
      > aspects)

      Is there any actual evidence for this? I would love to see it, if there is.

      Jez
      --

      Jezreell has studied and practised Anglosaxon heathenry for over thirty
      years and is a founder member of the Association of Polytheist Traditions.
       
      --

      Association of Polytheist Traditions - http://www.manygods.org.uk/

      There are some interesting articles, some quizzes and a good forum. Why not
      drop in and take a look around?


      She also hangs out here - BritPoly mailing list - open to all polytheists

      http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/Britpoly/
    • Rick A. Riedlinger
      ... Several of us were introduced to Stav many years ago. The original teacher is the 44th (?) jarl of his line and this was his family s teaching. Or so it
      Message 2 of 23 , Oct 30, 2005
        >> As many of you may, or may not know, Stav is the authentic Northern
        >> European Mind-Body-Sprirt System (kind of like Western Tai-Chi in some
        >> aspects)

        >Is there any actual evidence for this? I would love to see it, if there is.

        Several of us were introduced to Stav many years ago. The original teacher
        is the 44th (?) jarl of his line and this was his family's teaching. Or so
        it was claimed. Dirk Mahling- who's reputation, education, and bullsh*t
        meter are impeccable went to the UK to meet him. His verdict: genuine.

        And actually it doesn't matter. It well could be and many people I respect
        are into Stav. We thought highly enough to include a link in the Basic
        Course.

        We are in the wrong religion for proving things :).

        YMMV.

        Rick
      • Hugh Long
        Jez, fair question, and it seems that there is alot of controversy around this. I should probably have stated Stav is a Northern European Mind-Body-Sprirt
        Message 3 of 23 , Oct 30, 2005
          Jez, fair question, and it seems that there is alot of
          controversy around this.

          I should probably have stated "Stav is a Northern
          European Mind-Body-Sprirt System" to avoid the hassle.

          The history of Stav is rooted in the Hafskjold family
          for many generations and was an oral tradition due to
          it's Pagan connections - runes, nordic gods etc.

          Much of the martial system is newly derived material,
          let me be very clear about that. This art as it is
          today, is not the same as it might have been hundreds
          of years ago. Much as Asatru is not exactly what our
          ancestors would have practiced.....

          That being said, if Ivar had invented it 20 years ago,
          I would still say it's an incredible system that
          encompasses much of my cultural heriatge, has
          something offer everyone, and is felxible enough to
          allow modern influences to help evolve the system for
          today society.

          I am a relatively new student to Stav and don't try to
          evangelize. I enjoy it, much like Asatru, I don't care
          what other people believe. If it works for me, then
          I'm a happy man :)

          My only goal in sending this e-mail, for those people
          who are interested in Stav, (as it does relate to
          aspects of Asatru) was to let them know there was now
          an organization here in the East coast of the USA.
          Many in the Asatru community have asked in the past
          about Stav, and I know I waited over a year to take a
          seminar - I finally arranged to have Graham Butcher
          fly over from the UK to teach here.

          All the best,

          Hugh Long



          --- h.jezreell@... wrote:

          > on 30/10/05 12:05 PM, Asatru-U@yahoogroups.com
          > wrote:
          >
          > > As many of you may, or may not know, Stav is the
          > authentic Northern
          > > European Mind-Body-Sprirt System (kind of like
          > Western Tai-Chi in some
          > > aspects)
          >
          > Is there any actual evidence for this? I would love
          > to see it, if there is.
          >
          > Jez
          > --
          >
          > Jezreell has studied and practised Anglosaxon
          > heathenry for over thirty
          > years and is a founder member of the Association of
          > Polytheist Traditions.
          >
          > --
          >
          > Association of Polytheist Traditions -
          > http://www.manygods.org.uk/
          >
          > There are some interesting articles, some quizzes
          > and a good forum. Why not
          > drop in and take a look around?
          >
          >
          > She also hangs out here - BritPoly mailing list -
          > open to all polytheists
          >
          > http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/Britpoly/
          >
          >


          ______________________________________________________________
          Hugh B. Long, MSc., PMP
          http://www.stav-usa.com The Northern European Mind-Body-Spirit System


          ___________________________________________________________
        • Lissa
          ... I disagree. But, I haven t met the person in question, so I ll reserve public judgement. I will say I ve yet to meet anyone who claimed a family religious
          Message 4 of 23 , Oct 30, 2005
            On Sun, 2005-10-30 at 17:57 -0600, Rick A. Riedlinger wrote:

            > We are in the wrong religion for proving things :).

            I disagree. But, I haven't met the person in question, so I'll reserve
            public judgement.

            I will say I've yet to meet anyone who claimed a family religious
            tradition who passed the smell test who wasn't Jewish.

            Be well,
            Lissa

            --

            >From being God's chosen instrument it was but a short
            step to being God himself, that summus deus in whom all
            other Gods and other religions were subsumed.

            John Julius Norwich, "Byzantium, the early centuries"
          • Rick A. Riedlinger
            ... public judgement. Hi Lissa- Well, I ve gone after a few family trads in the past few years and I am in agreement with you. I also never met the man but
            Message 5 of 23 , Oct 30, 2005
              >I disagree. But, I haven't met the person in question, so I'll reserve
              public judgement.

              Hi Lissa-

              Well, I've gone after a few family trads in the past few years and I am in
              agreement with you. I also never met the man but Dirk did and he was quite
              sceptical. There is no more reason to disregard the system untested than
              there is to disregard heathenry because it is not the same it was hundreds
              of years ago. This is not secret knowledge, previously unknown, but rather
              it's just the simple arts of living in a rural society.

              And the point is, it doesn't matter. The system is based on one of the
              Germanic cultures. It can be an exercise form, a martial art, a way of
              healing or a way of life. I gave up on it because I could not do the
              exercises - the stances- on boats. I have thought about pulling out the
              video tape I have and starting again.

              >> We are in the wrong religion for proving things :).
              >I disagree.

              I'll take that bet- and spot you points.

              Have a good night!

              Rick
            • Lissa
              Hey, Rick, Well, not the first time we ve argued . ... Dirk is the kinsman of my kinswoman, but that doesn t mean I trust him, not having met him, either.
              Message 6 of 23 , Oct 30, 2005
                Hey, Rick,

                Well, not the first time we've argued <g>.

                > >I disagree. But, I haven't met the person in question, so I'll reserve
                > public judgement.

                > Well, I've gone after a few family trads in the past few years and I am in
                > agreement with you. I also never met the man but Dirk did and he was quite
                > sceptical. There is no more reason to disregard the system untested than
                > there is to disregard heathenry because it is not the same it was hundreds
                > of years ago. This is not secret knowledge, previously unknown, but rather
                > it's just the simple arts of living in a rural society.

                Dirk is the kinsman of my kinswoman, but that doesn't mean I trust him,
                not having met him, either.

                Just because my family have been teachers for 4 generations or more
                doesn't mean I run around claiming to be a teacher, based on tradition.
                Nor is it simple to live in a rural society. I'm a city girl - I'd
                probably try to churn butter, and end up with pig feed.

                > And the point is, it doesn't matter. The system is based on one of the
                > Germanic cultures. It can be an exercise form, a martial art, a way of
                > healing or a way of life. I gave up on it because I could not do the
                > exercises - the stances- on boats. I have thought about pulling out the
                > video tape I have and starting again.

                If you claim unbroken lineage back to Thormumble from Teutonwald, it
                matters. Now, if you claim you took a bunch of good, useful stuff from
                bunches of places, with footnotes and proper credit where credit is due,
                cool. We've certainly got holes to fill in.

                As for Germanic based stuff meaning it is somehow authentic, that would
                make Bonanza dubbed into German authentic. Or Kurt May. Or we can toss
                sauerkraut on pizza, and have authentic Germanic pizza. Or claim that
                because Richard Simmons had a Germanic first name, his form of aerobics
                is obviously tapping into the Germanic oversoul, and doing his tapes
                will result in a religious experience.

                > >> We are in the wrong religion for proving things :).
                > >I disagree.
                >
                > I'll take that bet- and spot you points.

                And neither of us will win, because we can't agree on the evidence <g>.
                Which is as it should be. Too much agreement leads to nasty things.

                > Have a good night!

                Same to you and Sue!

                Be well,
                Lissa
                --

                There is nothing more conducive to the destruction of a nation,
                whether it be republic or monarchy, than the lack of men of
                wisdom or intellect.

                John Cantacuzenus
              • airdragon2
                ... some ... there is. Well we are talking about a time when religion and often fighting were a big part of daily life. So I can certainly imagine the two
                Message 7 of 23 , Oct 30, 2005
                  --- In Asatru-U@yahoogroups.com, <h.jezreell@v...> wrote:
                  >
                  > on 30/10/05 12:05 PM, Asatru-U@yahoogroups.com wrote:
                  >
                  > > As many of you may, or may not know, Stav is the authentic Northern
                  > > European Mind-Body-Sprirt System (kind of like Western Tai-Chi in
                  some
                  > > aspects)
                  >
                  > Is there any actual evidence for this? I would love to see it, if
                  there is.

                  Well we are talking about a time when religion and often fighting were
                  a big part of daily life. So I can certainly imagine the two combining
                  especially with Thor being central to both sides of the social
                  equation. And I'm fairly certain I have read some documentation to
                  that affect but don't remember where.

                  As for the lineage thing, very doubtful it goes back to the original
                  system. We can thank the Christians for much of the lost cultural
                  knowledge in that area. Of course, much heathen knowledge survived
                  into the 1500's or later in certain isolated areas so it is certainly
                  possible. That is not to say that it isn't based on the original
                  system. Even the Jews had a period where they didn't know they were
                  Jews or even had a holy book. That is in "Kings" somewhere.
                  Interesting book if you read it real
                  sloooow.

                  There's my two cents for what it is worth.

                  Later Brad
                • airdragon2
                  ... some ... there is. Well we are talking about a time when religion and often fighting were a big part of daily life. So I can certainly imagine the two
                  Message 8 of 23 , Oct 30, 2005
                    --- In Asatru-U@yahoogroups.com, <h.jezreell@v...> wrote:
                    >
                    > on 30/10/05 12:05 PM, Asatru-U@yahoogroups.com wrote:
                    >
                    > > As many of you may, or may not know, Stav is the authentic Northern
                    > > European Mind-Body-Sprirt System (kind of like Western Tai-Chi in
                    some
                    > > aspects)
                    >
                    > Is there any actual evidence for this? I would love to see it, if
                    there is.

                    Well we are talking about a time when religion and often fighting were
                    a big part of daily life. So I can certainly imagine the two combining
                    especially with Thor being central to both sides of the social
                    equation. And I'm fairly certain I have read some documentation to
                    that affect but don't remember where.

                    As for the lineage thing, very doubtful it goes back to the original
                    system. We can thank the Christians for much of the lost cultural
                    knowledge in that area. Of course, much heathen knowledge survived
                    into the 1500's or later in certain isolated areas so it is certainly
                    possible. That is not to say that it isn't based on the original
                    system. Even the Jews had a period where they didn't know they were
                    Jews or even had a holy book. That is in "Kings" somewhere.
                    Interesting book if you read it real
                    sloooow.

                    There's my two cents for what it is worth.

                    Later Brad
                  • Rick A. Riedlinger
                    Hi Lissa, Without actually looking at and trying the system, many of your criticisms are a bit off-center- note: I do not say they are not warranted or apt,
                    Message 9 of 23 , Oct 31, 2005
                      Hi Lissa,

                      Without actually looking at and trying the system, many of your criticisms
                      are a bit off-center- note: I do not say they are not warranted or apt, but
                      if you look at the content you may reserve judgment on the points that seem
                      to bother you most.

                      >As for Germanic based stuff meaning it is somehow authentic, that would
                      make Bonanza dubbed into German authentic.

                      And so goes Asatru, too, then, eh? I never said authentic. Your stumbling
                      block is not based on knowledge of Stav, but rather on past experiences with
                      kooks. Fair enough for you, but not for me this time. I find it a lot less
                      trouble to believe '44th jarl of a family' than Betty had cake and cookies
                      with Thor. I am the 44th direct descendent of my father 43 times removed.
                      (Did I count right?) But that part doesn't really matter to me- it did
                      before I learned more, but it doesn't now. You don't know Dirk, but you do
                      me. I say the system has value to some people and that there is little that
                      contradicts what is known of Germanic lore, history, etc. A Germanic tai chi
                      is, IMO, a very apt description.

                      I doubt anyone can 'prove' much of anything about the past beliefs of the
                      Germanic peoples. If evidence cannot be agreed on, it is likely that such is
                      not provable fact, but rather supposition and wishful thinking- or else UPG
                      whose quality is judged by the reputation of the reporter.

                      So there :)!

                      This would be more fun in person so we could give each other dramatic looks.

                      Best to both,

                      Rick
                    • Hugh Long
                      It s interesting to see the reaction to Stav s claimed lineage. I was dubious at first, as I assumed the whole system was being touted as original. Only the
                      Message 10 of 23 , Oct 31, 2005
                        It's interesting to see the reaction to Stav's claimed
                        lineage. I was dubious at first, as I assumed the
                        whole system was being touted as original. Only the
                        core was passed down - rune stances & 5 basic staff
                        drills, as well as a few other disciplines. But, as
                        I've posted before, even if it was all fiction, I
                        wouldn't care, its a solid system that works ofr many
                        people.

                        Alot of the Martial components have been revived and
                        other bits integrated into Stav from Japanese systems
                        -Ivar spent 14 years studying In Japan with the goal
                        of bringing material back to rejuvinate Stav.

                        If Stav was some kind of money grabbing system I would
                        be concerned, but all the people I know are truly
                        great people who believe in the Art and nobody is
                        getting rich teaching Stav.

                        Graham Butcher, one of Ivar's original 4 students,
                        just left my house in Virginia after spending 10 days
                        here teaching myself and 2 other students. I had
                        arranged a seminar, and tried to get enough people to
                        cover his airfare, expenses etc. but we didn't even
                        cover his flight, and he came anyway, at his own
                        expense. And he took over a week off his work! He
                        wanted to make sure that interested people in Stav had
                        an opportunity to learn. I know very few people who
                        would do that.

                        Anyway, I hope I didn't cause too much of a ruckus
                        with this posting.

                        I do appreciate all the support and feedback though.

                        Hugh Long

                        --- airdragon2 <airdragon2@...> wrote:

                        > --- In Asatru-U@yahoogroups.com, <h.jezreell@v...>
                        > wrote:
                        > >
                        > > on 30/10/05 12:05 PM, Asatru-U@yahoogroups.com
                        > wrote:
                        > >
                        > > > As many of you may, or may not know, Stav is the
                        > authentic Northern
                        > > > European Mind-Body-Sprirt System (kind of like
                        > Western Tai-Chi in
                        > some
                        > > > aspects)
                        > >
                        > > Is there any actual evidence for this? I would
                        > love to see it, if
                        > there is.
                        >
                        > Well we are talking about a time when religion and
                        > often fighting were
                        > a big part of daily life. So I can certainly imagine
                        > the two combining
                        > especially with Thor being central to both sides of
                        > the social
                        > equation. And I'm fairly certain I have read some
                        > documentation to
                        > that affect but don't remember where.
                        >
                        > As for the lineage thing, very doubtful it goes back
                        > to the original
                        > system. We can thank the Christians for much of the
                        > lost cultural
                        > knowledge in that area. Of course, much heathen
                        > knowledge survived
                        > into the 1500's or later in certain isolated areas
                        > so it is certainly
                        > possible. That is not to say that it isn't based on
                        > the original
                        > system. Even the Jews had a period where they didn't
                        > know they were
                        > Jews or even had a holy book. That is in "Kings"
                        > somewhere.
                        > Interesting book if you read it real
                        > sloooow.
                        >
                        > There's my two cents for what it is worth.
                        >
                        > Later Brad
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >


                        ______________________________________________________________
                        Hugh B. Long, MSc., PMP
                        http://www.stav-usa.com The Northern European Mind-Body-Spirit System


                        ___________________________________________________________
                      • Lissa
                        Hey, Rick, ... You are right, I haven t done more than read a Stav website about 5 years ago, which left me in hysterical giggles. And we all know how much I
                        Message 11 of 23 , Oct 31, 2005
                          Hey, Rick,

                          > Without actually looking at and trying the system, many of your
                          > criticisms are a bit off-center- note: I do not say they are not
                          > warranted or apt, but if you look at the content you may reserve
                          > judgment on the points that seem to bother you most.

                          You are right, I haven't done more than read a Stav website about 5 years ago,
                          which left me in hysterical giggles. And we all know how much I hate people
                          seeing me giggle.

                          > >As for Germanic based stuff meaning it is somehow authentic, that would
                          > make Bonanza dubbed into German authentic.
                          >
                          > And so goes Asatru, too, then, eh?

                          Yes, actually. Most of what we do is made up, and we'd do well to remember
                          it, and where we stole the ideas from in the first place.

                          > I never said authentic. Your
                          > stumbling block is not based on knowledge of Stav, but rather on
                          > past experiences with kooks. Fair enough for you, but not for me
                          > this time. I find it a lot less trouble to believe '44th jarl of a
                          > family' than Betty had cake and cookies with Thor. I am the 44th
                          > direct descendent of my father 43 times removed.
                          > (Did I count right?) But that part doesn't really matter to me- it
                          > did before I learned more, but it doesn't now. You don't know Dirk,
                          > but you do me. I say the system has value to some people and that
                          > there is little that contradicts what is known of Germanic lore,
                          > history, etc. A Germanic tai chi is, IMO, a very apt description.

                          *shrug* Still sounds like bullocks to me, but I've no objection to Stav being
                          listed in the course, in part because new folks need to make their own
                          decisions (and we are in the business of providing information, not criticism)
                          and because it is a slippery slope when you start deleting groups based on
                          wackiness. By the time we got done, there wouldn't be any groups left.

                          They make a fam trad claim. Fam trad in general is laughable. But, hey, if
                          they don't mind people giggling, why should I care?

                          > I doubt anyone can 'prove' much of anything about the past beliefs
                          > of the Germanic peoples. If evidence cannot be agreed on, it is
                          > likely that such is not provable fact, but rather supposition and
                          > wishful thinking- or else UPG whose quality is judged by the
                          > reputation of the reporter.

                          Which is fine. UPG is great. Call it UPG. Reconstruction based on tenuous
                          sources is great. We do it all the time. Make your footnotes and prepare to
                          defend your logic.

                          Germanic tai-chi? Yeah, right. Great if it works for you (and, Rick, that
                          you say it isn't bs is the only thing I've heard that makes it remotely
                          interesting, since I do trust your judgement). But I'd take Germanic flower
                          arranging, based on ancient Japanese flower arranging, more seriously.

                          > So there :)!

                          I'm wounded! <g>

                          [And, I should talk, sitting here at work in an incredibly historically
                          inaccurate Viking costume, featuring, among other things, a pair of Uggs and
                          horns on my fabric helmet. At least my cloak hides the cell phone.]

                          > This would be more fun in person so we could give each other
                          > dramatic looks.

                          Oh, yes. This really isn't the place to argue about the percentage of
                          nuttiness any group has. Perhaps we can continue this at Yule?

                          Be well,
                          Lissa
                        • Grainne Gormlaith
                          Hail! I am a new member here and justed wanted to add that I had read about stav, awhile back and I practice the runic yoga positions daily. Grainne ... 5
                          Message 12 of 23 , Nov 7, 2005
                            Hail!
                            I am a new member here and justed wanted to add that I had read
                            about stav, awhile back and I practice the runic yoga positions
                            daily.
                            Grainne
                            >
                            >
                            > Hey, Rick,
                            >
                            > > Without actually looking at and trying the system, many of your
                            > > criticisms are a bit off-center- note: I do not say they are not
                            > > warranted or apt, but if you look at the content you may reserve
                            > > judgment on the points that seem to bother you most.
                            >
                            > You are right, I haven't done more than read a Stav website about
                            5 years ago,
                            > which left me in hysterical giggles. And we all know how much I
                            hate people
                            > seeing me giggle.
                            >
                            > > >As for Germanic based stuff meaning it is somehow authentic,
                            that would
                            > > make Bonanza dubbed into German authentic.
                            > >
                            > > And so goes Asatru, too, then, eh?
                            >
                            > Yes, actually. Most of what we do is made up, and we'd do well to
                            remember
                            > it, and where we stole the ideas from in the first place.
                            >
                            > > I never said authentic. Your
                            > > stumbling block is not based on knowledge of Stav, but rather on
                            > > past experiences with kooks. Fair enough for you, but not for me
                            > > this time. I find it a lot less trouble to believe '44th jarl of
                            a
                            > > family' than Betty had cake and cookies with Thor. I am the 44th
                            > > direct descendent of my father 43 times removed.
                            > > (Did I count right?) But that part doesn't really matter to me-
                            it
                            > > did before I learned more, but it doesn't now. You don't know
                            Dirk,
                            > > but you do me. I say the system has value to some people and
                            that
                            > > there is little that contradicts what is known of Germanic lore,
                            > > history, etc. A Germanic tai chi is, IMO, a very apt description.
                            >
                            > *shrug* Still sounds like bullocks to me, but I've no objection
                            to Stav being
                            > listed in the course, in part because new folks need to make their
                            own
                            > decisions (and we are in the business of providing information,
                            not criticism)
                            > and because it is a slippery slope when you start deleting groups
                            based on
                            > wackiness. By the time we got done, there wouldn't be any groups
                            left.
                            >
                            > They make a fam trad claim. Fam trad in general is laughable.
                            But, hey, if
                            > they don't mind people giggling, why should I care?
                            >
                            > > I doubt anyone can 'prove' much of anything about the past
                            beliefs
                            > > of the Germanic peoples. If evidence cannot be agreed on, it is
                            > > likely that such is not provable fact, but rather supposition
                            and
                            > > wishful thinking- or else UPG whose quality is judged by the
                            > > reputation of the reporter.
                            >
                            > Which is fine. UPG is great. Call it UPG. Reconstruction based
                            on tenuous
                            > sources is great. We do it all the time. Make your footnotes and
                            prepare to
                            > defend your logic.
                            >
                            > Germanic tai-chi? Yeah, right. Great if it works for you (and,
                            Rick, that
                            > you say it isn't bs is the only thing I've heard that makes it
                            remotely
                            > interesting, since I do trust your judgement). But I'd take
                            Germanic flower
                            > arranging, based on ancient Japanese flower arranging, more
                            seriously.
                            >
                            > > So there :)!
                            >
                            > I'm wounded! <g>
                            >
                            > [And, I should talk, sitting here at work in an incredibly
                            historically
                            > inaccurate Viking costume, featuring, among other things, a pair
                            of Uggs and
                            > horns on my fabric helmet. At least my cloak hides the cell
                            phone.]
                            >
                            > > This would be more fun in person so we could give each other
                            > > dramatic looks.
                            >
                            > Oh, yes. This really isn't the place to argue about the
                            percentage of
                            > nuttiness any group has. Perhaps we can continue this at Yule?
                            >
                            > Be well,
                            > Lissa
                            >
                          • Hugh Long
                            Good to hear! I love doing the runes stances....it s something that s so easy to do, I have a hard time finding an excuse to skip them, like I might with other
                            Message 13 of 23 , Nov 7, 2005
                              Good to hear!

                              I love doing the runes stances....it's something
                              that's so easy to do, I have a hard time finding an
                              excuse to skip them, like I might with other
                              excercise.

                              My wife has finally started doing them with me, and is
                              really anjoying them.

                              One great benefit for me, is that when I inhale, and
                              bend over to do the Ur stance, my back cracks like I
                              pay the chiropracter to do, and feels great! Also,
                              Stav stances are wonderful for improving balance.

                              We've now published a guide to doing the stances
                              online for anyone that's interested.

                              http://part-time-projects.com/Stav/content/view/169/51/


                              --- Grainne Gormlaith <grainnegormlaith@...>
                              wrote:

                              > Hail!
                              > I am a new member here and justed wanted to add that
                              > I had read
                              > about stav, awhile back and I practice the runic
                              > yoga positions
                              > daily.
                              > Grainne
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Hey, Rick,
                              > >
                              > > > Without actually looking at and trying the
                              > system, many of your
                              > > > criticisms are a bit off-center- note: I do not
                              > say they are not
                              > > > warranted or apt, but if you look at the content
                              > you may reserve
                              > > > judgment on the points that seem to bother you
                              > most.
                              > >
                              > > You are right, I haven't done more than read a
                              > Stav website about
                              > 5 years ago,
                              > > which left me in hysterical giggles. And we all
                              > know how much I
                              > hate people
                              > > seeing me giggle.
                              > >
                              > > > >As for Germanic based stuff meaning it is
                              > somehow authentic,
                              > that would
                              > > > make Bonanza dubbed into German authentic.
                              > > >
                              > > > And so goes Asatru, too, then, eh?
                              > >
                              > > Yes, actually. Most of what we do is made up, and
                              > we'd do well to
                              > remember
                              > > it, and where we stole the ideas from in the first
                              > place.
                              > >
                              > > > I never said authentic. Your
                              > > > stumbling block is not based on knowledge of
                              > Stav, but rather on
                              > > > past experiences with kooks. Fair enough for
                              > you, but not for me
                              > > > this time. I find it a lot less trouble to
                              > believe '44th jarl of
                              > a
                              > > > family' than Betty had cake and cookies with
                              > Thor. I am the 44th
                              > > > direct descendent of my father 43 times removed.
                              >
                              > > > (Did I count right?) But that part doesn't
                              > really matter to me-
                              > it
                              > > > did before I learned more, but it doesn't now.
                              > You don't know
                              > Dirk,
                              > > > but you do me. I say the system has value to
                              > some people and
                              > that
                              > > > there is little that contradicts what is known
                              > of Germanic lore,
                              > > > history, etc. A Germanic tai chi is, IMO, a very
                              > apt description.
                              > >
                              > > *shrug* Still sounds like bullocks to me, but
                              > I've no objection
                              > to Stav being
                              > > listed in the course, in part because new folks
                              > need to make their
                              > own
                              > > decisions (and we are in the business of providing
                              > information,
                              > not criticism)
                              > > and because it is a slippery slope when you start
                              > deleting groups
                              > based on
                              > > wackiness. By the time we got done, there
                              > wouldn't be any groups
                              > left.
                              > >
                              > > They make a fam trad claim. Fam trad in general
                              > is laughable.
                              > But, hey, if
                              > > they don't mind people giggling, why should I
                              > care?
                              > >
                              > > > I doubt anyone can 'prove' much of anything
                              > about the past
                              > beliefs
                              > > > of the Germanic peoples. If evidence cannot be
                              > agreed on, it is
                              > > > likely that such is not provable fact, but
                              > rather supposition
                              > and
                              > > > wishful thinking- or else UPG whose quality is
                              > judged by the
                              > > > reputation of the reporter.
                              > >
                              > > Which is fine. UPG is great. Call it UPG.
                              > Reconstruction based
                              > on tenuous
                              > > sources is great. We do it all the time. Make
                              > your footnotes and
                              > prepare to
                              > > defend your logic.
                              > >
                              > > Germanic tai-chi? Yeah, right. Great if it works
                              > for you (and,
                              > Rick, that
                              > > you say it isn't bs is the only thing I've heard
                              > that makes it
                              > remotely
                              > > interesting, since I do trust your judgement).
                              > But I'd take
                              > Germanic flower
                              > > arranging, based on ancient Japanese flower
                              > arranging, more
                              > seriously.
                              > >
                              > > > So there :)!
                              > >
                              > > I'm wounded! <g>
                              > >
                              > > [And, I should talk, sitting here at work in an
                              > incredibly
                              > historically
                              > > inaccurate Viking costume, featuring, among other
                              > things, a pair
                              > of Uggs and
                              > > horns on my fabric helmet. At least my cloak
                              > hides the cell
                              > phone.]
                              > >
                              > > > This would be more fun in person so we could
                              > give each other
                              > > > dramatic looks.
                              > >
                              > > Oh, yes. This really isn't the place to argue
                              > about the
                              > percentage of
                              > > nuttiness any group has. Perhaps we can continue
                              > this at Yule?
                              > >
                              > > Be well,
                              > > Lissa
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >


                              ______________________________________________________________
                              Hugh B. Long, MSc., PMP
                              http://www.stav-usa.com The Northern European Mind-Body-Spirit System


                              ___________________________________________________________
                            • Nathan Pinkerton
                              ... that is cool... although, do you know if anyone has done one with the Elder Futhark? Nathan -- If, at first, you don t succeed, get a bigger hammer.
                              Message 14 of 23 , Nov 8, 2005
                                On 11/7/05, Hugh Long <hugh_b_long@...> wrote:
                                > We've now published a guide to doing the stances
                                > online for anyone that's interested.
                                >
                                > http://part-time-projects.com/Stav/content/view/169/51/

                                that is cool... although, do you know if anyone has done one with the
                                Elder Futhark?

                                Nathan

                                --
                                If, at first, you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer.
                              • Hugh Long
                                Actually I do...there s a guy named Tyrsson in the Odinic Rite. He published the first 8 stances in the Last OR magazine, and will publish the other 16 over
                                Message 15 of 23 , Nov 8, 2005
                                  Actually I do...there's a guy named Tyrsson in the Odinic Rite. He published the first 8 stances in the Last OR magazine, and will publish the other 16 over the next year....

                                  If you go onto the Odinic Rite Yahoo group you can contact him there.

                                  Nathan Pinkerton <npinkerton@...> wrote:
                                  On 11/7/05, Hugh Long <hugh_b_long@...> wrote:
                                  > We've now published a guide to doing the stances
                                  > online for anyone that's interested.
                                  >
                                  > http://part-time-projects.com/Stav/content/view/169/51/

                                  that is cool... although, do you know if anyone has done one with the
                                  Elder Futhark?

                                  Nathan

                                  --
                                  If, at first, you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer.


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                                  ______________________________________________________________
                                  Hugh B. Long, MSc., PMP
                                  http://www.stav-usa.com The Northern European Mind-Body-Spirit System


                                  ___________________________________________________________












                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Nathan Pinkerton
                                  ... I did a search on the yahoo groups website, and I went to the Odinic Rite website, and I was unable to find the yahoo group for them either place. Nathan
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Nov 8, 2005
                                    On 11/8/05, Hugh Long <hugh_b_long@...> wrote:
                                    > Actually I do...there's a guy named Tyrsson in the Odinic Rite. He published the first 8 stances in the Last OR magazine, and will publish the other 16 over the next year....
                                    >
                                    > If you go onto the Odinic Rite Yahoo group you can contact him there.

                                    I did a search on the yahoo groups website, and I went to the Odinic
                                    Rite website, and I was unable to find the yahoo group for them either
                                    place.

                                    Nathan

                                    --
                                    If, at first, you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer.
                                  • Grainne Gormlaith
                                    I enjoyed the website! I am planning on signing up for the Ice and Fire USA membership.
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Nov 9, 2005
                                      I enjoyed the website! I am planning on signing up for the Ice and
                                      Fire USA membership.

                                      Hugh Long <hugh_b_long@y...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Good to hear!
                                      >
                                      > I love doing the runes stances....it's something
                                      > that's so easy to do, I have a hard time finding an
                                      > excuse to skip them, like I might with other
                                      > excercise.
                                      >
                                      > My wife has finally started doing them with me, and is
                                      > really anjoying them.
                                      >
                                      > One great benefit for me, is that when I inhale, and
                                      > bend over to do the Ur stance, my back cracks like I
                                      > pay the chiropracter to do, and feels great! Also,
                                      > Stav stances are wonderful for improving balance.
                                      >
                                      > We've now published a guide to doing the stances
                                      > online for anyone that's interested.
                                      >
                                      > http://part-time-projects.com/Stav/content/view/169/51/
                                      >
                                      >
                                    • Grainne Gormlaith
                                      Try the website Runes Alphabet of Mystery http://www.sunnyway.com/runes/index.html Then scroll down to the links, Stadhagaldr - Runic Yoga
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Nov 9, 2005
                                        Try the website Runes Alphabet of Mystery
                                        http://www.sunnyway.com/runes/index.html
                                        Then scroll down to the links,
                                        Stadhagaldr - Runic Yoga http://www.sunnyway.com/runes/stadha.html
                                        and Stáv - Runic Martial Arts http://www.sunnyway.com/runes/stav.html


                                        --- In Asatru-U@yahoogroups.com, Nathan Pinkerton <npinkerton@g...>
                                        wrote:
                                        >
                                        > On 11/7/05, Hugh Long <hugh_b_long@y...> wrote:
                                        > > We've now published a guide to doing the stances
                                        > > online for anyone that's interested.
                                        > >
                                        > > http://part-time-projects.com/Stav/content/view/169/51/
                                        >
                                        > that is cool... although, do you know if anyone has done one with the
                                        > Elder Futhark?
                                        >
                                        > Nathan
                                        >
                                        > --
                                        > If, at first, you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer.
                                        >
                                      • Hugh Long
                                        Yes, I love that site! Tons of great info. Unfortunatly his links to the Stav community are out of date and many are broken. But the info is great. ...
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Nov 9, 2005
                                          Yes, I love that site! Tons of great info.

                                          Unfortunatly his links to the Stav community are out
                                          of date and many are broken. But the info is great.



                                          --- Grainne Gormlaith <grainnegormlaith@...>
                                          wrote:

                                          >
                                          > Try the website Runes Alphabet of Mystery
                                          > http://www.sunnyway.com/runes/index.html
                                          > Then scroll down to the links,
                                          > Stadhagaldr - Runic Yoga
                                          > http://www.sunnyway.com/runes/stadha.html
                                          > and Stáv - Runic Martial Arts
                                          > http://www.sunnyway.com/runes/stav.html
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > --- In Asatru-U@yahoogroups.com, Nathan Pinkerton
                                          > <npinkerton@g...>
                                          > wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > On 11/7/05, Hugh Long <hugh_b_long@y...> wrote:
                                          > > > We've now published a guide to doing the stances
                                          > > > online for anyone that's interested.
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          >
                                          http://part-time-projects.com/Stav/content/view/169/51/
                                          > >
                                          > > that is cool... although, do you know if anyone
                                          > has done one with the
                                          > > Elder Futhark?
                                          > >
                                          > > Nathan
                                          > >
                                          > > --
                                          > > If, at first, you don't succeed, get a bigger
                                          > hammer.
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >


                                          ______________________________________________________________
                                          Hugh B. Long, MSc., PMP
                                          http://www.stav-usa.com The Northern European Mind-Body-Spirit System


                                          ___________________________________________________________
                                        • Hugh Long
                                          Grainne, we d love to have you! Hope you can make the spring seminar in April. Hugh ... http://part-time-projects.com/Stav/content/view/169/51/ ...
                                          Message 20 of 23 , Nov 9, 2005
                                            Grainne, we'd love to have you!

                                            Hope you can make the spring seminar in April.

                                            Hugh

                                            --- Grainne Gormlaith <grainnegormlaith@...>
                                            wrote:

                                            > I enjoyed the website! I am planning on signing up
                                            > for the Ice and
                                            > Fire USA membership.
                                            >
                                            > Hugh Long <hugh_b_long@y...> wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > Good to hear!
                                            > >
                                            > > I love doing the runes stances....it's something
                                            > > that's so easy to do, I have a hard time finding
                                            > an
                                            > > excuse to skip them, like I might with other
                                            > > excercise.
                                            > >
                                            > > My wife has finally started doing them with me,
                                            > and is
                                            > > really anjoying them.
                                            > >
                                            > > One great benefit for me, is that when I inhale,
                                            > and
                                            > > bend over to do the Ur stance, my back cracks like
                                            > I
                                            > > pay the chiropracter to do, and feels great! Also,
                                            > > Stav stances are wonderful for improving balance.
                                            > >
                                            > > We've now published a guide to doing the stances
                                            > > online for anyone that's interested.
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            >
                                            http://part-time-projects.com/Stav/content/view/169/51/
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >


                                            ______________________________________________________________
                                            Hugh B. Long, MSc., PMP
                                            http://www.stav-usa.com The Northern European Mind-Body-Spirit System


                                            ___________________________________________________________
                                          • Rick A. Riedlinger
                                            I had hoped this thread would pass on its own. Asatru-U s purpose has been fulfilled. Perhaps it is time to take this thread to a Stav site? Rick
                                            Message 21 of 23 , Nov 9, 2005
                                              I had hoped this thread would pass on its own.

                                              Asatru-U's purpose has been fulfilled. Perhaps it is time to take this
                                              thread to a Stav site?

                                              Rick
                                            • Hugh Long
                                              no problem... ... ______________________________________________________________ Hugh B. Long, MSc., PMP http://www.stav-usa.com The Northern European
                                              Message 22 of 23 , Nov 9, 2005
                                                no problem...

                                                --- "Rick A. Riedlinger" <heathensailor@...>
                                                wrote:

                                                > I had hoped this thread would pass on its own.
                                                >
                                                > Asatru-U's purpose has been fulfilled. Perhaps it is
                                                > time to take this
                                                > thread to a Stav site?
                                                >
                                                > Rick
                                                >
                                                >


                                                ______________________________________________________________
                                                Hugh B. Long, MSc., PMP
                                                http://www.stav-usa.com The Northern European Mind-Body-Spirit System


                                                ___________________________________________________________
                                              • Manny Olds
                                                ... Perhaps someone could post a summary here of the information and links that we have seen that would be suitable for dropping into an Asa-U document. --
                                                Message 23 of 23 , Nov 9, 2005
                                                  On 11/9/05, Rick A. Riedlinger <heathensailor@...> wrote:
                                                  > I had hoped this thread would pass on its own.
                                                  >
                                                  > Asatru-U's purpose has been fulfilled. Perhaps it is time to take this
                                                  > thread to a Stav site?
                                                  >

                                                  Perhaps someone could post a summary here of the information and links
                                                  that we have seen that would be suitable for dropping into an Asa-U
                                                  document.

                                                  --

                                                  Manny Olds (oldsma@...) of Silver Spring, Maryland, USA
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