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Pronounciation

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  • jmurray88
    Evening All! Just a question. We all know the gods & goddesses name by sight, but what about saying the name? I know how to prounouce most of the names, what
    Message 1 of 11 , Jun 24, 2002
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      Evening All!

      Just a question. We all know the gods & goddesses name by sight, but
      what about saying the name? I know how to prounouce most of the
      names, what about the others? Mispronouncing a gods name is like
      calling your Aunt to ask a question better asked of your cousin.
      Where can I find some references regarding the proper pronounciation
      of the names?



      Jim
    • Karl Donaldsson
      Depends on the language. I recommend using the language from which the name originated, or its closest surviving relative, for pronunciation guides. Looking
      Message 2 of 11 , Jun 24, 2002
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        Depends on the language. I recommend using the language from which the name
        originated, or its closest surviving relative, for pronunciation guides.

        Looking for a specific example?


        '/\` Frith upon your house
        //\\ Karl Donaldsson
        \\// mekboy@...
        `\/' http://www.geocities.com/svalich
        --------------------------------------------
        Member of the Kindred of Ravenswood
        Zionsville, Indiana USA
        http://www.iquest.net/~chaviland/Rindex.html
        ---------------------------------------------
        To Vali! To Vengeance! To Honor! To Kin!
        ===============================================
        ------> Would you know more, or what? <------
        Get Asatru education at http://www.asatru-u.org
        ===============================================
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "jmurray88" <jmurray88@...>
        To: <Asatru-U@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 6:49 PM
        Subject: [Asatru-U] Pronounciation


        > Evening All!
        >
        > Just a question. We all know the gods & goddesses name by sight, but
        > what about saying the name? I know how to prounouce most of the
        > names, what about the others? Mispronouncing a gods name is like
        > calling your Aunt to ask a question better asked of your cousin.
        > Where can I find some references regarding the proper pronounciation
        > of the names?
        >
        >
        >
        > Jim
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > Asatru-U-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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        >
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
        >
      • tsdoughty@aol.com
        ... If pronunciation is important to you, (and it s not to everybody - there are all kinds of pronunciations going around out there), I go along with Karl and
        Message 3 of 11 , Jun 25, 2002
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          > We all know the gods & goddesses name by sight, but
          > what about saying the name? I know how to prounouce most of the
          > names, what about the others? Mispronouncing a gods name is like
          > calling your Aunt to ask a question better asked of your cousin.

          If pronunciation is important to you, (and it's not to everybody - there are
          all kinds of pronunciations going around out there), I go along with Karl and
          say to adopt the pronunciation of one of the languages closest to where the
          god name comes from in the literature. For most, Old Norse is appropriate.
          I was just looking around on the web for a pronunciation guide for ON, but
          all I find at the moment are pages on grammar. If someone doesn't beat me to
          it, I'll get my ON book out tonight and post the rules for you. And BTW, I'm
          with you on saying names "correctly".

          Tim


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Jim Murray
          ... Yes, I gues I should have specified how the pronounciation would be done in English. JIm __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?
          Message 4 of 11 , Jun 25, 2002
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            --- Karl Donaldsson <mekboy@...> wrote:
            > Depends on the language. I recommend using the
            > language from which the name
            > originated, or its closest surviving relative, for
            > pronunciation guides.
            >
            > Looking for a specific example?

            Yes, I gues I should have specified how the
            pronounciation would be done in English.



            JIm


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          • Jim Murray
            ... Thanks, good to see I m not alone, I should have specified English, but case in point, Frigga, is it correctly(in English) Frig-ga or Frig-ja , this is
            Message 5 of 11 , Jun 25, 2002
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              --- tsdoughty@... wrote:
              >
              >
              > > We all know the gods & goddesses name by sight,
              > but
              > > what about saying the name? I know how to
              > prounouce most of the
              > > names, what about the others? Mispronouncing a
              > gods name is like
              > > calling your Aunt to ask a question better asked
              > of your cousin.
              >
              > If pronunciation is important to you, (and it's not
              > to everybody - there are
              > all kinds of pronunciations going around out there),
              > I go along with Karl and
              > say to adopt the pronunciation of one of the
              > languages closest to where the
              > god name comes from in the literature. For most,
              > Old Norse is appropriate.
              > I was just looking around on the web for a
              > pronunciation guide for ON, but
              > all I find at the moment are pages on grammar. If
              > someone doesn't beat me to
              > it, I'll get my ON book out tonight and post the
              > rules for you. And BTW, I'm
              > with you on saying names "correctly".
              >
              > Tim

              Thanks, good to see I'm not alone, I should have
              specified English, but case in point, Frigga, is it
              correctly(in English) 'Frig-ga' or Frig-ja', this is
              kinda what I was getting at.


              Jim


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            • tsdoughty@aol.com
              ... The g s are hard: Frig-ga. Frik-ka would be more accurate, since a double g bordered by vowels comes out unvoiced in many Germanic languages. One
              Message 6 of 11 , Jun 25, 2002
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                > Thanks, good to see I'm not alone, I should have
                > specified English, but case in point, Frigga, is it
                > correctly(in English) 'Frig-ga' or Frig-ja', this is
                > kinda what I was getting at.
                >

                The g's are hard: Frig-ga. Frik-ka would be more accurate, since a double g
                bordered by vowels comes out unvoiced in many Germanic languages. One
                sometimes sees it spelled Fricka anyway.

                Since this list is really reserved for development of the heathen curriculum,
                it would be better to continue the conversation off-list if needed.

                Tim


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Karl Donaldsson
                From: Jim Murray ... Erm, I mean, what word are you looking to pronounce? I suppose we pronounce croissant as kre-SAHNT in American
                Message 7 of 11 , Jun 25, 2002
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                  From: "Jim Murray" <jmurray88@...>

                  > --- Karl Donaldsson <mekboy@...> wrote:
                  > > Depends on the language. I recommend using the
                  > > language from which the name
                  > > originated, or its closest surviving relative, for
                  > > pronunciation guides.
                  > >
                  > > Looking for a specific example?
                  >
                  > Yes, I gues I should have specified how the
                  > pronounciation would be done in English.

                  Erm, I mean, what word are you looking to pronounce?

                  I suppose we pronounce "croissant" as "kre-SAHNT" in American English, and
                  in the native French, it would be more like "kwai-SZAH". Both
                  pronunciations are technically correct, but it depends on context. If
                  you're meaning to use the name Odin/Odhinn as "OH-din", that's fine, some
                  prefer "OH-theen". To say one is correct over another is subjective; I was
                  asking what you were looking for, and if there were any specific names you
                  wanted feedback on.


                  '/\` Frith upon your house
                  //\\ Karl Donaldsson
                  \\// mekboy@...
                  `\/' http://www.geocities.com/svalich
                  --------------------------------------------
                  Member of the Kindred of Ravenswood
                  Zionsville, Indiana USA
                  http://www.iquest.net/~chaviland/Rindex.html
                  ---------------------------------------------
                  To Vali! To Vengeance! To Honor! To Kin!
                  ===============================================
                  ------> Would you know more, or what? <------
                  Get Asatru education at http://www.asatru-u.org
                  ===============================================
                • darren smith
                  OK people im wondering if were talking agout the pronunciation of the names of the gods shouldn t it be based on runic pronunciation rather than modern English
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jun 26, 2002
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                    OK people im wondering if were talking agout the
                    pronunciation of the names of the gods shouldn't it be
                    based on runic pronunciation rather than modern
                    English pronunciation? just a queery. Daz
                    --- Karl Donaldsson <mekboy@...> wrote:
                    <HR>
                    <html><body>


                    <tt>
                    From: "Jim Murray"
                    <jmurray88@...><BR>
                    <BR>
                    > --- Karl Donaldsson <mekboy@...>
                    wrote:<BR>
                    > > Depends on the language.  I recommend
                    using the<BR>
                    > > language from which the name<BR>
                    > > originated, or its closest surviving
                    relative, for<BR>
                    > > pronunciation guides.<BR>
                    > ><BR>
                    > > Looking for a specific example?<BR>
                    ><BR>
                    > Yes, I gues I should have specified how the<BR>
                    > pronounciation would be done in English.<BR>
                    <BR>
                    Erm, I mean, what word are you looking to
                    pronounce?<BR>
                    <BR>
                    I suppose we pronounce "croissant" as
                    "kre-SAHNT" in American English, and<BR>
                    in the native French, it would be more like
                    "kwai-SZAH".  Both<BR>
                    pronunciations are technically correct, but it depends
                    on context.  If<BR>
                    you're meaning to use the name Odin/Odhinn as
                    "OH-din", that's fine, some<BR>
                    prefer "OH-theen".  To say one is
                    correct over another is subjective; I was<BR>
                    asking what you were looking for, and if there were
                    any specific names you<BR>
                    wanted feedback on.<BR>
                    <BR>
                    <BR>
                    '/` Frith upon your house<BR>
                    // Karl Donaldsson<BR>
                    // mekboy@...<BR>
                    `/' <a
                    href="http://www.geocities.com/svalich">http://www.geocities.com/svalich</a><BR>
                    --------------------------------------------<BR>
                    Member of the Kindred of Ravenswood<BR>
                    Zionsville, Indiana  USA<BR>
                    <a
                    href="http://www.iquest.net/~chaviland/Rindex.html">http://www.iquest.net/~chaviland/Rindex.html</a><BR>
                    ---------------------------------------------<BR>
                    To Vali!  To Vengeance!  To Honor!  To
                    Kin!<BR>
                    ===============================================<BR>
                    ------>  Would you know more, or what? 
                    <------<BR>
                    Get Asatru education at <a
                    href="http://www.asatru-u.org">http://www.asatru-u.org</a><BR>
                    ===============================================<BR>
                    </tt>


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                  • Manny Olds
                    Sorry to have let this go so long and then cut it off. General discussion of particular pronunciations should be better carried out somewhere else. The
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jun 26, 2002
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                      Sorry to have let this go so long and then cut it off. General discussion
                      of particular pronunciations should be better carried out somewhere else.

                      The appropriate topic for this list would be "Do we need to include a
                      pronunciation guide in our material? How can we compile that?" Questions
                      on this come up often enough that I think we should and would be very
                      interested in rolling our sleeves up on it.


                      Manny Olds (oldsma@...) of Riverdale Park, Maryland, USA
                      Moderator Hat On
                    • svalich
                      ... a ... Questions ... very ... I don t know about that. You see, pronounciation, in this case, might be consiered prescriptive, and it would depend on the
                      Message 10 of 11 , Jun 28, 2002
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                        --- In Asatru-U@y..., Manny Olds <oldsma@p...> wrote:

                        > The appropriate topic for this list would be "Do we need to include
                        a
                        > pronunciation guide in our material? How can we compile that?"
                        Questions
                        > on this come up often enough that I think we should and would be
                        very
                        > interested in rolling our sleeves up on it.

                        I don't know about that. You see, pronounciation, in this case,
                        might be consiered prescriptive, and it would depend on the rules for
                        a given language. As we know that many Latin teachers are very
                        forgiving about latin pronounciation since nobody alive has heard it
                        spoken by a native, the same probably holds true for god-names and
                        such.

                        Now, for our material purposes, I might suggest a link or two to a
                        page discussing these various aspects of pronounciation. My personal
                        opinions stem from current usage rules, so I expect a native German
                        speaker to pronounce Thor as "Tor" as his language permits, or even
                        Donner/Donar or whatever word they use in their word for "Thursday."

                        Ultimately, I don't know that we could, in clear conscience, do more
                        than to point out various schools of thought on the topic, rather
                        than attempting to jam it into something which could possibly, and
                        incorrectly, be assumed as some official guide.

                        My trepidations (from personal source, YMMV) stem from seeing too
                        many people argue about pronounciations in role-playing games (for
                        the D&D readers out there, ever get in the "drow" pronounciation
                        war?), collectible card games, and other things about which geeks
                        (such as myself) tend to collect. I'd rather not supply fuel for a
                        fire and that we carefully choose to say little about it.

                        Again, my usage of "we" in the above statements implies my inclusion
                        into this, and I will be happy to generate some verbiage of my own
                        views to point at or completely disregard at a later date.

                        Now that I've tossed this out there, and admitted my waffality on the
                        topic, what do yins think?


                        '/\` Frith upon your house
                        //\\ Karl Donaldsson
                        \\// mekboy@...
                        `\/' http://www.geocities.com/svalich
                        --------------------------------------------
                        Member of the Kindred of Ravenswood
                        Zionsville, Indiana USA
                        http://www.iquest.net/~chaviland/Rindex.html
                        ---------------------------------------------
                        To Vali! To Vengeance! To Honor! To Kin!
                        ===============================================
                        ------> Would you know more, or what? <------
                        Get Asatru education at http://www.asatru-u.org
                        ===============================================
                      • tsdoughty@aol.com
                        In a message dated 6/28/2002 4:34:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, ... Well, I agree that many pronunciations of words and names from dead languages are possible,
                        Message 11 of 11 , Jun 28, 2002
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                          In a message dated 6/28/2002 4:34:17 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                          mekboy@... writes:


                          > Now that I've tossed this out there, and admitted my waffality on the
                          > topic, what do yins think?
                          >

                          Well, I agree that many pronunciations of words and names from dead languages
                          are possible, and vary according to one's nationality and home language.
                          Besides that, everyone has the freedom to say these things they way he or she
                          wants, but I think that most people would prefer to say things in the same
                          way as a majority of people around them are doing. And the trouble with
                          newbies is that few have a chance to hear those around them pronounce the
                          things because they're isolated.

                          If we can find good pronunciation sites to point people to, that's fine. If
                          not, we can devise them ourselves (I'll volunteer unless someone has already
                          done this -- it seems like I've seen one or two good pronunciation tables
                          posted on lists.) Of course, anything that we put forward should have layers
                          of disclaimers saying what I've said above, that there is no absolute "right"
                          way to adhere to. Would that do?

                          Tim


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