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1757Re: [Asatru-U] Re: Teaching gods

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  • Karl Donaldsson
    Jun 3, 2002
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      From: "Lorrie Wood" <lwood@...>


      > On Sun, Jun 02, 2002 at 08:16:52PM -0500, Karl Donaldsson wrote:
      > >
      > > Certainly at some point in any mind-altering experience (specifically, I
      > > recommend hallucinogens), one asks the question -- am I chemically
      tricking
      > > my brain into seeing things which are not there; or am I finally seeing
      > > things as they are for the first time? A similar question will be asked
      by
      > > any adherent to a religion, where they are interested in investing time
      and
      > > effort for some sort of reward (whether spiritual or otherwise) from
      said
      > > effort.
      >
      > And the corollary questions: Is there a useful difference, and if
      > it works, does it matter?

      Well, some realists seem to believe there is a difference between fooling
      oneself and actually perceiving something which others cannot. There is
      only a difference, I think, if one chooses to recognize one, and that
      difference may be important to a given individual. We may run into this
      with the Intermediate Course, by some folks feeling they're not making such
      a spiritual connection, because they can't believe it can be made. Then the
      question of "is it possible" becomes more consuming than " can I do it."
      For example, a man of my proportions is ill-suited to climb a free-hanging
      rope. I still say it's not impossible, because as I become the Happy
      Not-Nearly-So-Fat-As-I-Was-Before Guy, the task becomes more approachable.
      Some fellows of my dimensions might consider the task impossible, without
      even considering that, with the right training, the task is not only
      possible, but likely to achieve. I don't how to make people realize the
      step from possibility to likelihood, but I feel that the Intermediate course
      should have, for each individual, that specific goal rolling around in the
      back of one's mind.

      It only matters how it works, again, to the individual. If one can only
      contact the deities or wights or what-have-you via some hallucinogenic
      delirium, they might then, (logically!) conclude that it's the stuff making
      the connection, not them, without ever realizing that the substance in
      question is actually just attenuating something they choose to perceive in
      the first place. I think meditations, chants, trances, hypnosis, and so
      forth seem to be more useful in this regard, since one might feel that they
      are more in control of the situation than might otherwise be experienced via
      chemical stimuli. Such meditations remove the possibility that some
      external force is at work on their senses, when, in fact, the same chemical
      changes in the body and brain are, in many cases, identical. I choose such
      an example as myself since I have never had any success using meditations or
      hypnosis (perhaps a lack of training, and skill are my culprit), and I had
      some contact with certain substances before getting into heathenry. Now I
      find my spiritual contacts are established, and that I have no need for any
      substance to achieve what might be considered supernatural awareness to
      certain things. Kind of like taking the training wheels off the bike. I
      believe others find equal success from meditation, chanting, trances, and
      hypnosis (or even other mental conditioning) without the need to resort to
      using chemical substances. The good news seems to be that there is some
      level of documentation in the lore which seems to support both takes on
      opening doors of perception.

      So, in summary, it only matters if the individual makes it matter. We throw
      up more walls and obstacles for ourselves than any one, or every one, could
      possibly put before us.


      <soapbox>
      As a society, we are generally trained to conform, as we are easier to
      control. When one realizes that he has no master other than himself, and he
      has no obstacles other than the one he places for himself, then the
      connections may be made that are out of the realm of consideration. It took
      some time to convince people that we revolved about the sun, and that the
      Earth was not flat, mostly by people who had to open themselves up to the
      idea that what they thought they knew to be true could, in fact, be
      completely bollocks. I believe this is the hurdle which we of non-heathen
      upbringing face, a hurdle which, hopefully, is decimated by successful
      completion of the Beginner's course.
      </soapbox>

      Sorry for the long post.


      '/\` Frith upon your house
      //\\ Karl Donaldsson
      \\// mekboy@...
      `\/' http://www.geocities.com/svalich
      --------------------------------------------
      Member of the Kindred of Ravenswood
      Zionsville, Indiana USA
      http://www.iquest.net/~chaviland/Rindex.html
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      To Vali! To Vengeance! To Honor! To Kin!
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