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Did Jesus Lived in India ?

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  • vagabondindia
    Dear All, Had Jesus survived the Cross ?? We have talked many times on this topic. Some of us had mentioned E. J. Spencer s book which dealt with this matter.
    Message 1 of 2 , Jun 3, 2005
    • 0 Attachment
      Dear All,

      Had Jesus survived the Cross ?? We have talked many times on this
      topic. Some of us had mentioned E. J. Spencer's book which dealt
      with this matter. He was Sri Sri Thakurji's disciple and the book
      gives Sri Sri Thakurji's own views as well.

      Now, Yashendra bhai has sent us the portion of that book which deals
      with the subject. HERE THAT IS !! for all of u to read !

      The book's details & publisher's note is also given. ( Pls bear with
      spelling errors as the pages have been scanned directly from the
      book and automatically converted into text file.)

      Do read and share your thoughts.
      Vande Purushottamam !
      vagabondindia
      ...............(SEE BELOW)>>>

      "WAIT FOR ME CHRIST, I'M COMING"
      E. J. Spencer
      M. A. ( Harvard & Rutgers U.S.A.)

      To be had of :
      S. B. Enterprise
      191/1, Pramanik Ghat Road,
      Calcutta-700036
      Published by : Sampa Mukhopadhyay 32-15, 78th Street, Jackson
      Heights, N. Y. 11370, U.S.A.
      © Reserved.

      First Edition : The 9th June 1985
      Cover Page designed by
      Shree Hiron Kumar Mukharjee
      Retd. Drawing Teacher, Dumka, Bihar.
      Price: Rs. 15.00
      Block Maker : Shree Shankar Santra
      Paradise Process,
      62, K. C. Sen St., Cal-9.
      Printed by : Laxmi Janardan Press, 6, Shibu Biswas Lane, Calcutta-
      700006.


      Publisher's Submission:
      This letter (if this is a letter ) was delivered by the writer, Mr.
      E. J. Spencer personally to my father, Shree Aurobindo Banerjee, as
      his 'Birthday present' at a function arranged by my husband, Shree
      Amitabha Mukhopadhyay and myself in our appartment in New York in
      September 1978.
      Originally it was written in Phonetic spelling, as advocated by
      Bernard Shaw ; later on, brought to the current one, by Shree Sanjoy
      Chatterjee, M. A., a surrendered devotee of Shree Shree Thakur and a
      Ritwik.
      Mr. Spencer, M. A., a Scholar from Harvard and Rutgers ( U. S. A )
      met my father, Shree Aurobindo Banerjee, a Lawyer and a leading
      person of Dumka, SP, (Bihar, India) j at the 'MukhrjeePark', Dumka,
      where Shree Shree Thakur Anukul Chandra was then camping, in
      December 1952. Eventually, they became life long friends. I was born
      shortly after that and j when I grew up, I became blessed by being
      one of the hot favourites of Mr. Spencer.
      After my marriage, I moved to New York to live with my husband, and
      Mr. Spencer whenever he would come to USA from India, would pay us
      loving visits.In one of such visits he made the present to my father.

      By the grace of Shree Shree Thakur, and with all humility I take the
      opportunity of publishing this letter.
      This will, I hope, afford a chance to the readers of having a
      special view of Shree Shree Thakur from the angle of vision of a
      highly intellectual and deeply spiritual westerner.
      The meaningful and beautiful drawing on the cover, has been done by
      Shree Hiron Kumar Mukherjee, a devoted disciple of Shree Shree
      Thakur. May He bless all.
      Sampa Mukhopadhyay.
      The 25th Jannary 1985 32-15, 78th Street JACKSON HEIGHTS
      NEW YORK N. Y. 11370 (U.S.A.)
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
      Dear Aurobindoda,

      You have asked me for my considered opinion on the possibility of
      Christ's having survived the Cross. I cannot give you any considered
      opinion yet, as I do not have enough information. But I can place
      before you for your consideration what information I have been able
      by the grace of God to gather.

      First of all there are the words of Mohammad and of Sree Sree Thakur
      [* Founder of the Pabna Satsang ( Born 1888, Died 1969 )]. The
      Koran, uttered thru the mouth of Mohammad, states that the Jews did
      not kill Christ or crucify him, but that the matter was made
      doubtful to them. Thakur is more explicit. He asserts that there was
      a plot to save Christ and that it succeeded, that false wounds were
      made on his body and that he was transported secretly to Kashmir.
      The Encyclopedia Britannica ( 14th ed. ) shows a picture of Christ
      as AN OLD MAN. A history, written by Eusebius, one of the early
      Church Fathers, speaks of an event as having occured when Jesus was
      AN OLD MAN. And the Koran again asserts that God had promised Christ
      that He would bring Christ to a normal span of life. If Christ lived
      to a mature age, he could not have died on the Cross at the age of
      33 or thereabouts as the Bible would lead us to believe.

      It is further argued that even if Jesus had been put on the Cross
      he did not remain there long enough to suffer death. He was on
      the Cross for only a few hours, whereas usually a few days are
      required to bring about death. According to the Bible, his
      body was taken down quickly on the special dispensation of Pontius
      Pilate and by friends. It was stowed away in a friend's prepared
      sepulchre and wrapped in a fine cloth. A cloth, believed by many
      to be the same cloth and now kept in the cathedral at Turin,
      Italy, shows blood-marks, indicating that the body of Jesus, if
      indeed it truly be the cloth in which he was wrapped, was
      still bleeding, and therefore still alive when in the grave
      chamber. The evidence from the shroud cloth should not however
      be too readily accepted according to Vittorio Carlo, a textile
      engineer of Turin, who told me he had examined it and had found
      it to be of a weave and pattern in all likelihood unknown in the
      time of Christ.
      If Christ survived the Cross, where did he disappear ? Did he go to
      Kashmir as Sree Sree Thakur suggests ? It is claimed that Kashmir
      was inhabited by the lost tribes of Israel, and it was precisely to
      such that Christ had declared himself sent. "I have been sent to
      none other that the lost tribes of Israel," he says in St. Matthew.
      So it would have been quite in keeping with his stated mission to
      look up the dispersed Jews in the East. If he went, did he go
      incognito ? Probably, and it may be for this reason that traces of
      Him in historical records are so shadowy. The Rawas-Tus-Safa, a
      Muslim devotional work, speaks of Jesus, "the great traveller",
      arriving at the court of Nisibin, about 450 miles from Jerusalem.
      The ACTS OF ST. THOMAS, the apostle, tells of Christ's visiting a
      king of Taxila, now in Pakistan. But both these writings are of
      dubious reliability. When we come to Kashmir itself, the traces are
      a bit more clear and numerous.

      A stick, said to be the staff of Jesus, is still in existence there.
      A grave in Khaniyar Street, Srinagar, is claimed on intuition by
      Mirza Gulam Ahmed, the founder of the Ahmadiyya Movement, to be
      Christ's. This claim might be examined. I tried to enter the tomb in
      1969, but the local authorities, fearing an adverse reaction from
      the masses who are devoted to the shrine, refused permission. I sat
      in meditation in the shrine one night in 1961 and saw before my
      closed eyes the monogram JC, which could signify Jesus Christ. What
      more it might signify I am not prepared to say. The tomb was
      generally considered until 1900 to be that of one Nabi Saheb or Yus
      Asaf, purportedly a prince from a foreign land and a prophet to the
      people of Kashmir. Who was this Nabi Saheb or Yus Asaf ? Mirza
      Gulam Ahmed around 1900 said he was Christ. But what is the
      evidence ? According to learned opinion in the research section
      of the Srinagar Library, Yus Asaf is a transliteration into Arabic
      script of bodhisatva : The mystery deepens ; Buddhism enters the
      picture. In seeming substantiation of this, there are two Buddhist-
      looking carved stones alongside the grave at Khaniyar. Could
      this Yus Asaf have been a bodhisatva and also Christ ? Had not
      the Buddha predicted that about 500 years after his death a
      maitheya (messiah) or bodhisatva would appear to revive his
      doctrine ? And had not a bodhisatva, called Tzi-Zu (Jesu ? ) by
      the Chinese traveller, Huang-an-Tsang, appeared at the
      Buddhist Conference of 57 A. D. spectacularly settling all major
      doctrinal disputes ? Was Tzi-Zu Jesus ? In this connection I
      would like to report that I visited the site of ancient
      Buddhist monastery at Haaren, a few miles from Srinagar and found
      on the pottery pieces there faces of a distinctly Jewish cut, though
      the head-dresses were Mongolian. Pointing to a hillside at
      this same Haaren, Meher Baba, a saint of Western India and
      regarded by many as a divine incarnation, declared it to be the
      death-place of Jesus. In any case it appears that there
      were Jewish Buddhists in ancient Kashmir. Was it to bring them
      closer to the truth that Christ travelled incognito so many miles
      after the crucifixion ? Ultimately to be enshrined as a bodhisatva
      in Khaniyar Street, Srinagar ? Here too, truth could be stranger
      than fiction, Aurobindoda.

      Around 1900 the BHAVISYA MAHA PURAN was published, perhaps on order
      of the king of Kashmir. Therein was seen a curious account of a
      meeting between a Saka king and a holy man who said his name was
      Issa (the name by which Jesus is generally known in the East). Asked
      of his antecedents and doctrine, the holy man said that he had been
      born of a pure woman in a distant country whose degenerated
      inhabitants had caused him suffering and had also suffered at his
      hands. He said his doctrine was the worship of truth, and that God
      lived in the sun. The time of this Saka king would have been in the
      later half of the first century. Could the holy man have been
      Christ ?

      On page 69 of the much soughtfor, but as yet unfound by me,
      manuscript history of Kashmir by Maula Naidiri, who lived about a
      thousand years ago, it is reportedly written that one Yus Asaf was
      consulted by a king of Srinagar concerning the repair of a temple
      dome and that this Yus Asaf was, according to a Hindu book seen by
      Maula Naidiri, a prophet of the children of Israel. The date of the
      repair work on the temple dome is claimed to be 54 A. D. This would
      be very important evidence ( almost a clincher ) if substantiated. I
      have tried to locate the manuscript, said to have been taken from
      Srinagar to Lahore at the partition of India, but without success, I
      did meet, however, an editor of a Muslim publication in Srinagar who
      stated positively that he had seen the manuscript with his own eyes
      before it was taken to Lahore, and he showed me a photostat copy of
      page 69.

      That just about winds up the story of evidence that I have come
      across, Aurobindoda. As you see, since 1900 a fair amount has turned
      up. Investigation of the Dead Sea Scrolls may tell us something
      more. The whole Essene connection is to be researched. Then there is
      the Nath connection suggested by Thakur, and as yet untouched. The
      Nath Sect in India has many ancient records. What part, if any, did
      Christ play in its formation ? Do the Nath records give us any
      light ?
      You say you like to think that Christ was saved. So do I. So did
      Thakur. Would it not be of benefit to mankind to discover that it
      has not been mechanically saved by the blood of the saviour and that
      he laboured unsectarianly for the worship of truth ?

      As you know, this information was gathered in the course of hitch-
      hiking around and around India from 1961 to 1970. It was Thakur who
      had asked me to investigate the matter. In fact, he had put it
      rather strongly to me way back in '46. "It is the lust of my heart,"
      he had said, "that you look into this." You have been after me for a
      long time to write down both my hitch-hiking and Thakur experiences
      as well as my investigations into the life of Christ. Indeed you
      have been interested in my whole life story. In trying to tell you
      the whole story I want to include only what may be useful to you and
      others. Is that o. k. ? ………………………………….....
      ( Thats all Spencer da has written on this matter in this book-
      Yashendra)
      ...The End...............
    • Audrey Hauserman
      Very interesting post. I remember my husband telling me that Thakur never believed Jesus died on the cross. On my first trip to India he took me to Srinagar
      Message 2 of 2 , Jun 3, 2005
      • 0 Attachment
        Very interesting post.  I remember my husband telling me that Thakur never believed Jesus died on the cross.  On my first trip to India he took me to Srinagar to see the temple mentioned.  I have a book entitled 'Jesus Lived in India' - details Christ's life to Kashmir, also mentions Moses' burial place in Kashmir.   I'm moving and I just packed the book away in boxes today!

        Jai Guru
        Audrey Hauserman
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 2:04 PM
        Subject: [latestprophet] Did Jesus Lived in India ?

        Dear All,

        Had Jesus survived the Cross ?? We have talked many times on this
        topic. Some of us had mentioned E. J. Spencer's book which dealt
        with this matter. He was Sri Sri Thakurji's disciple and the book
        gives Sri Sri Thakurji's own views as well.

        Now, Yashendra bhai has sent us the portion of that book which deals
        with the subject. HERE THAT IS !! for all of u to read !

        The book's details & publisher's note is also given. ( Pls bear with
        spelling errors as the pages have been scanned directly from the
        book and automatically converted into text file.)

        Do read and share your thoughts.
        Vande Purushottamam !
        vagabondindia
        ...............(SEE BELOW)>>>

        "WAIT FOR ME CHRIST, I'M COMING"
        E. J. Spencer
        M. A. ( Harvard & Rutgers U.S.A.)

        To be had of :
        S. B. Enterprise
        191/1, Pramanik Ghat Road,
        Calcutta-700036
        Published by : Sampa Mukhopadhyay 32-15, 78th Street, Jackson
        Heights, N. Y. 11370, U.S.A.
        ©    Reserved.

        First Edition :   The 9th June 1985
        Cover Page designed by
        Shree Hiron Kumar Mukharjee
        Retd. Drawing Teacher, Dumka, Bihar.
        Price:   Rs. 15.00
        Block Maker :   Shree Shankar Santra
        Paradise Process,
        62, K. C. Sen St., Cal-9.
        Printed by : Laxmi Janardan Press, 6, Shibu Biswas Lane, Calcutta-
        700006.


        Publisher's Submission:
        This letter (if this is a letter ) was delivered by the writer, Mr.
        E. J. Spencer personally to my father, Shree Aurobindo Banerjee, as
        his 'Birthday present' at a function arranged by my husband, Shree
        Amitabha Mukhopadhyay and myself in our appartment in New York in
        September 1978.
        Originally it was written in Phonetic spelling, as advocated by
        Bernard Shaw ; later on, brought to the current one, by Shree Sanjoy
        Chatterjee, M. A., a surrendered devotee of Shree Shree Thakur and a
        Ritwik.
        Mr. Spencer, M. A., a Scholar from Harvard and Rutgers ( U. S. A )
        met my father, Shree Aurobindo Banerjee, a Lawyer and a leading
        person of Dumka, SP, (Bihar, India) j at the 'MukhrjeePark', Dumka,
        where Shree Shree Thakur Anukul Chandra was then camping, in
        December 1952. Eventually, they became life long friends. I was born
        shortly after that and j when I grew up, I became blessed by being
        one of the hot favourites of Mr. Spencer.
        After my marriage, I moved to New York to live with my husband, and
        Mr. Spencer whenever he would come to USA from India, would pay us
        loving visits.In one of such visits he made the present to my father.

        By the grace of Shree Shree Thakur, and with all humility I take the
        opportunity of publishing this letter.
        This will, I hope, afford a chance to the readers of having a
        special view of Shree Shree Thakur from the angle of vision of a
        highly intellectual and deeply spiritual westerner.
        The meaningful and beautiful drawing on the cover, has been done by
        Shree Hiron Kumar Mukherjee, a devoted disciple of Shree Shree
        Thakur. May He bless all.
        Sampa Mukhopadhyay.
        The 25th Jannary 1985 32-15, 78th Street JACKSON HEIGHTS
        NEW YORK N. Y. 11370 (U.S.A.)
        >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
        Dear Aurobindoda,

        You have asked me for my considered opinion on the possibility of
        Christ's having survived the Cross. I cannot give you any considered
        opinion yet, as I do not have enough information. But I can place
        before you for your consideration what information I have been able
        by the grace of God to gather.

        First of all there are the words of Mohammad and of Sree Sree Thakur
        [* Founder of the Pabna Satsang ( Born 1888, Died 1969 )]. The
        Koran, uttered thru the mouth of Mohammad, states that the Jews did
        not kill Christ or crucify him, but that the matter was made
        doubtful to them. Thakur is more explicit. He asserts that there was
        a plot to save Christ and that it succeeded, that false wounds were
        made on his body and that he was transported secretly to Kashmir.
        The Encyclopedia Britannica ( 14th ed. ) shows a picture of Christ
        as AN OLD MAN. A history, written by Eusebius, one of the early
        Church Fathers, speaks of an event as having occured when Jesus was
        AN OLD MAN. And the Koran again asserts that God had promised Christ
        that He would bring Christ to a normal span of life. If Christ lived
        to a mature age, he could not have died on the Cross at the age of
        33 or thereabouts as the Bible would lead us to believe.

        It is further argued that even if Jesus had been put on   the Cross
        he did not remain there long enough to suffer death.    He was on
        the Cross for only a few hours, whereas  usually  a  few days  are
        required to bring   about death.    According to the Bible, his
        body  was taken down quickly on the special dispensation of Pontius
        Pilate and by friends. It was stowed away in a friend's prepared
        sepulchre and wrapped in a fine cloth.   A cloth, believed by many
        to be the same cloth and  now  kept in the cathedral at Turin, 
        Italy,  shows blood-marks, indicating that the body of Jesus, if
        indeed it truly be the   cloth   in   which he was  wrapped, was  
        still bleeding, and    therefore   still alive when in the grave   
        chamber.    The   evidence from the shroud cloth should not however
        be too readily accepted according to Vittorio Carlo,  a textile
        engineer  of Turin, who told me he had   examined it and  had found
        it to be of a weave  and pattern in  all likelihood unknown in the
        time of Christ.
        If Christ survived the Cross, where did he disappear ? Did he go to
        Kashmir as Sree Sree Thakur suggests ? It is claimed that Kashmir
        was inhabited by the lost tribes of Israel, and it was precisely to
        such that Christ had declared himself sent. "I have been sent to
        none other that the lost tribes of Israel," he says in St. Matthew.
        So it would have been quite in keeping with his stated mission to
        look up the dispersed Jews in the East. If he went, did he go
        incognito ? Probably, and it may be for this reason that traces of
        Him in historical records are so shadowy. The Rawas-Tus-Safa, a
        Muslim devotional work, speaks of Jesus, "the great traveller",
        arriving at the court of Nisibin, about 450 miles from Jerusalem.
        The ACTS OF ST. THOMAS, the apostle, tells of Christ's visiting a
        king of Taxila, now in Pakistan. But both these writings are of
        dubious reliability. When we come to Kashmir itself, the traces are
        a bit more clear and numerous.

        A stick, said to be the staff of Jesus, is still in existence there.
        A grave in Khaniyar Street, Srinagar, is claimed on intuition by
        Mirza Gulam Ahmed, the founder of the Ahmadiyya Movement, to be
        Christ's. This claim might be examined. I tried to enter the tomb in
        1969, but the local authorities, fearing an adverse reaction from
        the masses who are devoted to the shrine, refused permission. I sat
        in meditation in the shrine one night in 1961 and saw before my
        closed eyes the monogram JC, which could signify Jesus Christ. What
        more it might signify I am not prepared to say. The tomb was
        generally considered until 1900 to be that of one Nabi Saheb or Yus
        Asaf, purportedly a prince from a foreign land and a prophet to the
        people of Kashmir.   Who was this Nabi Saheb or Yus Asaf ? Mirza
        Gulam Ahmed around 1900 said he was Christ.    But what is the
        evidence ?    According   to learned opinion in the research section
        of the Srinagar Library, Yus Asaf is a transliteration into Arabic
        script of bodhisatva : The mystery deepens ; Buddhism enters the
        picture. In   seeming substantiation of this, there are two Buddhist-
        looking carved stones alongside the grave at   Khaniyar.    Could
        this Yus  Asaf have been a bodhisatva and also Christ ?    Had not
        the Buddha predicted that   about   500  years after his death a
        maitheya (messiah) or bodhisatva would appear to revive his
        doctrine ?   And had not a bodhisatva, called   Tzi-Zu (Jesu ? ) by 
        the Chinese traveller, Huang-an-Tsang,   appeared   at the
        Buddhist   Conference of 57 A. D.  spectacularly settling all major
        doctrinal   disputes ?   Was Tzi-Zu Jesus ?   In this connection I
        would like to report that I visited the site of   ancient  
        Buddhist   monastery at Haaren, a few miles from Srinagar and found
        on the pottery pieces there faces of a distinctly Jewish cut, though
        the   head-dresses   were   Mongolian.    Pointing to a hillside at
        this same Haaren, Meher Baba, a saint of Western India   and
        regarded  by many as a divine incarnation,   declared it to be the
        death-place of Jesus.   In   any   case it  appears   that there
        were Jewish Buddhists in ancient Kashmir. Was it to bring them
        closer to the truth that Christ travelled incognito so many miles
        after the crucifixion ? Ultimately to be enshrined as a bodhisatva
        in Khaniyar Street, Srinagar ? Here too, truth could be stranger
        than fiction, Aurobindoda.

        Around 1900 the BHAVISYA MAHA PURAN was published, perhaps on order
        of the king of Kashmir. Therein was seen a curious account of a
        meeting between a Saka king and a holy man who said his name was
        Issa (the name by which Jesus is generally known in the East). Asked
        of his antecedents and doctrine, the holy man said that he had been
        born of a pure woman in a distant country whose degenerated
        inhabitants had caused him suffering and had also suffered at his
        hands. He said his doctrine was the worship of truth, and that God
        lived in the sun. The time of this Saka king would have been in the
        later half of the first century. Could the holy man have been
        Christ ?

        On page 69 of the much soughtfor, but as yet unfound by me,
        manuscript history of Kashmir by Maula Naidiri, who lived about a
        thousand years ago, it is reportedly written that one Yus Asaf was
        consulted by a king of Srinagar concerning the repair of a temple
        dome and that this Yus Asaf was, according to a Hindu book seen by
        Maula Naidiri, a prophet of the children of Israel. The date of the
        repair work on the temple dome is claimed to be 54 A. D. This would
        be very important evidence ( almost a clincher ) if substantiated. I
        have tried to locate the manuscript, said to have been taken from
        Srinagar to Lahore at the partition of India, but without success, I
        did meet, however, an editor of a Muslim publication in Srinagar who
        stated positively that he had seen the manuscript with his own eyes
        before it was taken to Lahore, and he showed me a photostat copy of
        page 69.

        That just about winds up the story of evidence that I have come
        across, Aurobindoda. As you see, since 1900 a fair amount has turned
        up. Investigation of the Dead Sea Scrolls may tell us something
        more. The whole Essene connection is to be researched. Then there is
        the Nath connection suggested by Thakur, and as yet untouched. The
        Nath Sect in India has many ancient records. What part, if any, did
        Christ play in its formation ? Do the Nath records give us any
        light ?
        You say you like to think that Christ was saved. So do I. So did
        Thakur. Would it not be of benefit to mankind to discover that it
        has not been mechanically saved by the blood of the saviour and that
        he laboured unsectarianly for the worship of truth ?

        As you know, this information was gathered in the course of hitch-
        hiking around and around India from 1961 to 1970. It was Thakur who
        had asked me to investigate the matter. In fact, he had put it
        rather strongly to me way back in '46. "It is the lust of my heart,"
        he had said, "that you look into this." You have been after me for a
        long time to write down both my hitch-hiking and Thakur experiences
        as well as my investigations into the life of Christ. Indeed you
        have been interested in my whole life story. In trying to tell you
        the whole story I want to include only what may be useful to you and
        others. Is that o. k. ? ………………………………….....
        ( Thats all Spencer da has written on this matter in this book-
        Yashendra)
        ...The End...............





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