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Re: [Apicius] Re: Cucurbita

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  • Correus
    Thanks Lori!!!   I will be adding that book to my library. I think you are correct in what you ve said.  I actually ran across a couple articles that state
    Message 1 of 29 , May 27, 2013
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      Thanks Lori!!!   I will be adding that book to my library.

      I think you are correct in what you've said.  I actually ran across a couple articles that state there is evidence that peoples from the New World to make it to the Old World in the Republican and Imperial Roman age and vise verse.  It also mentioned seeds reaching those areas as well due to ocean currents.

      Correus




      ________________________________
      From: Lori Tishgart <ltishgart@...>
      To: Apicius@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 1:15 PM
      Subject: Re: [Apicius] Re: Cucurbita



       
      Hello!You are so correct, while we all try to remain as "authentic" to the ingredients known to the Mediterranean at the time, we shouldn't forget that the Roman Empire was huge and covered vastly different areas and their corresponding local food sources.  While many ingredients could be transported, Roman cooks had to apply their tastes to what food was available locally.  In Britain (Gaul, Germania etc.), so far north of Rome, they had to use local food.  It could be argued that there is no one single pure form of Ancient Roman cooking.
      What if their empire had extended to the New World?  How would the Romans approach and cook New World ingredients?
      There is a good book on more "everyday" military and civilian food in Roman Britain called:
      Food in Roman Britain by Joan P. Alcock
      Lori

      --- On Mon, 5/27/13, Correus <correus@...> wrote:

      From: Correus <correus@...>
      Subject: Re: [Apicius] Re: Cucurbita
      To: "Apicius@yahoogroups.com" <Apicius@yahoogroups.com>
      Date: Monday, May 27, 2013, 8:34 AM

       

      The only GOOD fresh figs I've had was when we were in Egypt.

      I ordered some from Harry & David - they were decent but the price per fig (when adding in S&H) were about $3 each and the one store in my area that might get them charge about $4 each.   I tried growing some that 'supposedly' would grow in Kansas - they were growing but a storm took them out.

      You will find recipes for items like "millet polenta" from sources like Pliney.

      pulteautem, non pane, vixisselongotempore Romanos manifestum. Pliny the Elder N.H. XVIII,83

      populumRomanumfarretantum e frumento CCC annisusumVerriustradit. Pliny the Elder N.H. XVIII, 62

      As you delve into Apicius you'll notice a lack of "common food for the common people" - but there are other sources out there - like Pliny the Elder.  The recipes in Apicius tend to be those for the rich and famous not masses.  Grant's book is a great source for common food as well as bread.  IIRC there are some porridge recipes in his book.

       

      As for "sausages in rolls with mustard" - been-there-done-that.   You will find a discussion about this in the archives that I started.  We know the Romans loved sausages and they were common at festivals, games, plays, etc.  I ran across a reference to stuffed buns and pastries and made the leap that this could include sausages in pastry or a sausage wrapped in bread. 

      So - don't worry about tossing ideas out here.  One of the things I like to do is "Romanize" modern food item!

      Vale - Correus

      ________________________________

      From: Ross <telamonian_teukros@...>

      To: Apicius@yahoogroups.com

      Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2013 12:50 AM

      Subject: [Apicius] Re: Cucurbita

       

      --- In Apicius@yahoogroups.com, Correus <correus@...> wrote:

      r>
      > Another issue I have is fresh figs - those things are incredibly rare in my area!!!! You'd think that in our day and age they would be easier to get.

      >

      You can get fresh figs in New York, but you know what, GOOD fresh figs are also incredibly rare!!! I've had fair fresh figs two or three times in my life, good fresh figs only once. The rest of the time, ehh.

      > I think creating dishes using Roman techniques and herb/spice combos is a lot of fun.  >

      I am mooting a "poor Roman's feast". Some recipes are not to be found in any classical source but at the same time they are incredibly obvious. For example, millet polenta:

      http://ancientfoods.wordpress.com/2013/03/04/most-ancient-romans-ate-like-animals/

      Terrible title IMO.

      And no millet polenta recipe is to be found in Apicius. Maybe because there was a stigma attached to millet? After all, only the poor people ate millet.

      And I know it is a slippery slope but I already have a lot of ideas (e.g. vine leaves stuffed with herbed garbanzo puree, kind of like a Roman patra). Just somebody stop me if I start to talk about sausages in rolls with mustard, and salted deep fried turnip chips :-)

      > > Vale ~

      > > Correus

      >

      >

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Ross
      Thank s for the tip; I ordered this book last night. @ Correus: I have Grant, but oddly I wasn t that impressed with it. I ll definitely give it a second look,
      Message 2 of 29 , May 28, 2013
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        Thank's for the tip; I ordered this book last night.

        @ Correus: I have Grant, but oddly I wasn't that impressed with it. I'll definitely give it a second look, especially for the non-Apicius recipes.

        --- In Apicius@yahoogroups.com, Lori Tishgart <ltishgart@...> wrote:
        >
        > There is a good book on more "everyday" military and civilian food in Roman Britain called:
        > Food in Roman Britain by Joan P. Alcock
        > Lori
      • Lucia Clark
        Well, here in Massachusetts I have a small fig bush on the patio with a dozen little figs on it. I cover it with mesh to protect it from the chipmunks. In the
        Message 3 of 29 , May 28, 2013
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          Well, here in Massachusetts I have a small fig bush on the patio with a
          dozen little figs on it. I cover it with mesh to protect it from the
          chipmunks. In the fall I bring it inside in the solarium, but any cool room
          would do. Re sausages: In England we got used to “meat pasties.” Not a huge
          leap from panem depsticium with stuff rolled in it

          Valete



          _____

          From: Apicius@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Apicius@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
          Correus
          Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 11:35 AM
          To: Apicius@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [Apicius] Re: Cucurbita





          The only GOOD fresh figs I've had was when we were in Egypt.

          I ordered some from Harry & David - they were decent but the price per fig
          (when adding in S&H) were about $3 each and the one store in my area that
          might get them charge about $4 each. I tried growing some that
          'supposedly' would grow in Kansas - they were growing but a storm took them
          out.

          You will find recipes for items like "millet polenta" from sources like
          Pliney.

          pulteautem, non pane, vixisselongotempore Romanos manifestum. Pliny the
          Elder N.H. XVIII,83

          populumRomanumfarretantum e frumento CCC annisusumVerriustradit. Pliny the
          Elder N.H. XVIII, 62

          As you delve into Apicius you'll notice a lack of "common food for the
          common people" - but there are other sources out there - like Pliny the
          Elder. The recipes in Apicius tend to be those for the rich and famous not
          masses. Grant's book is a great source for common food as well as bread.
          IIRC there are some porridge recipes in his book.


          As for "sausages in rolls with mustard" - been-there-done-that. You will
          find a discussion about this in the archives that I started. We know the
          Romans loved sausages and they were common at festivals, games, plays, etc.
          I ran across a reference to stuffed buns and pastries and made the leap that
          this could include sausages in pastry or a sausage wrapped in bread.

          So - don't worry about tossing ideas out here. One of the things I like to
          do is "Romanize" modern food item!

          Vale - Correus

          ________________________________
          From: Ross <telamonian_teukros@...
          <mailto:telamonian_teukros%40yahoo.com> >
          To: Apicius@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Apicius%40yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2013 12:50 AM
          Subject: [Apicius] Re: Cucurbita




          --- In Apicius@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Apicius%40yahoogroups.com> , Correus
          <correus@...> wrote:

          > Another issue I have is fresh figs - those things are incredibly rare in
          my area!!!! You'd think that in our day and age they would be easier to
          get.
          >

          You can get fresh figs in New York, but you know what, GOOD fresh figs are
          also incredibly rare!!! I've had fair fresh figs two or three times in my
          life, good fresh figs only once. The rest of the time, ehh.

          > I think creating dishes using Roman techniques and herb/spice combos is a
          lot of fun. >

          I am mooting a "poor Roman's feast". Some recipes are not to be found in any
          classical source but at the same time they are incredibly obvious. For
          example, millet polenta:

          http://ancientfoods.wordpress.com/2013/03/04/most-ancient-romans-ate-like-an
          imals/

          Terrible title IMO.

          And no millet polenta recipe is to be found in Apicius. Maybe because there
          was a stigma attached to millet? After all, only the poor people ate millet.

          And I know it is a slippery slope but I already have a lot of ideas (e.g.
          vine leaves stuffed with herbed garbanzo puree, kind of like a Roman patra).
          Just somebody stop me if I start to talk about sausages in rolls with
          mustard, and salted deep fried turnip chips :-)

          > > Vale ~
          > > Correus
          >
          >

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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