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Carte postale Asterix

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  • margali
    margali vous a envoy���� une carte postale. Vous pouvez la lire aux adresses suivantes : http://www.asterix.tm.fr/lefilm/e-card/card28A50060.htm pour les
    Message 1 of 14 , Dec 31, 1969
      margali vous a envoy� une carte postale.

      Vous pouvez la lire aux adresses suivantes :
      http://www.asterix.tm.fr/lefilm/e-card/card28A50060.htm pour les navigateurs de version 4 et plus
      ou
      http://www.asterix.tm.fr/lefilm/e-card/card2086BAB8.htm pour les plus anciens.
    • sallygrain@aol.com
      Hi all I have been out of it for a while and most dissappointed to have missed the moretum debate but would like to make the following point. Any
      Message 2 of 14 , May 31, 2000
        Hi all

        I have been out of it for a while and most dissappointed to have missed the
        moretum debate but would like to make the following point. Any
        wild/small/young types of garlic that is mild or milder then normal is out of
        the question for morteum.
        The poem makes great play with the fact that the farmer sufferes greatly in
        the making of his cheese. The fumes are very excessive, causing him pain and
        causing him to constantly wipe his eyes.

        Is this effect caused by lots of mild garlic or less amounts of very stronge
        garlic? The 4 heads that are picked are fresh/green garlic but this type of
        garlic can still be relatively strong. The farmer appears to only put 1
        clove or head in the mortarium when it comes to actually making the cheese.
        It must at least be a head as one clove would not have the above effect,
        niether would 1 spring onion with garlic flavour. One small head of green
        garlic can have anything from 8-12 cloves of varying size. The cheese is at
        no time measured and that of cause is the problem. I took a guess at about 4
        oz as an amount that could easily be pounded at one time.

        I vary between 30-40 cloves per lb of pecorino Romano depending on the
        recipient. This is a hard, aged cheese of a kind that you could well find
        hanging in the rafters.
        My definition of moretum is that it should "fight back" when you eat it.

        Sally
      • Carol Dery
        I think moretum is simply the name given to certain sorts of dish prepared in a mortar (mortarium). Sally is right to point out that other dishes are named
        Message 3 of 14 , Jun 2, 2000
          I think moretum is simply the name given to certain sorts of dish prepared
          in a mortar (mortarium). Sally is right to point out that other dishes are
          named after the cooking vessel e.g. patina... and I think this is what
          happened here too. Oh, and Vergil is only the attributed author of the poem
          'Moretum.' Almost certainly it was not written by him, but by a contemporary.

          I dont think that cheese should be understood as an ingredient in all sorts
          of moretaria. Some do seem to be more salad-like, but I'd have to check the
          originals (which I dont have with me now) before I could comment on
          consistency. The cheese in the garlic & herb moretum should definitely be a
          hard cheese though, not a soft one. Soft ones wouldn't be able to be hung up
          in the rafters as Simulus' (the peasant farmer) was.

          As for dictionaries, Lewis and Short (in its many editions) is still the
          best. You should be able to find it in a good reference library.

          Carol
        • sallygrain@aol.com
          Hi Marco et al Interesting thought about the smoked soft cheese. I might have a go with a less pungent cheese and see how the garlic holds up. I just might be
          Message 4 of 14 , Jun 2, 2000
            Hi Marco et al

            Interesting thought about the smoked soft cheese. I might have a go with a
            less pungent cheese and see how the garlic holds up. I just might be
            reducing my estimation of the garlic in that recipe!

            (It was good to here about the garum by the way)

            Even lewis and short and OLD have there disadvantages. Food history in
            classics is such a new field that much of the research is not even seen by
            those that compile dictionaries, let alone taken into account.

            I have about 2 loebs of my own but my husband has many more - I married him
            to get to his library??? They are the best way to deal with any text and
            are well worth the £12.00 a time. In see many in second hand shops here. I
            will keep my eyes open for any food related texts and offer them up for sale
            or auction or something????

            sally
          • sallygrain@aol.com
            Hi I had a idea re garlic or not and cheese or not in moretum and came up with the following. Apicius moretaria will contain cheese even though unsaid as the
            Message 5 of 14 , Jun 6, 2000
              Hi

              I had a idea re garlic or not and cheese or not in moretum and came up with
              the following. Apicius' moretaria will contain cheese even though unsaid as
              the cheese is the dominant feature in all the other latin refs. The garlic
              is common, peasant fair and therefore not of importance and irrelavant for
              wealthy recipes. (There is hardly any in the whole book.) The recipes have
              been adapted for wealthy table without the garlic.

              The name moretum is according to lewis and short derived from mordeo: to bit,
              sting which can only refer to the garlic as an early ingredient and not from
              mortarium ie a mixture pounded up.

              This link with the Greek myttotos is odd. It does apparently have honey in it
              and also garlic and cheese but little green apart from leek. I can only
              assume that if Parthenius' poem called Myttotos was used as a basis for the
              psudo virgil adaptation then it was a happy coincidence that the two dishes
              are similar. This myttotos was a definate sauce used with fish therefore
              somewhat runny (see Ath 282b) Presumably psudo-Virgil looked for and found a
              traditional Roman dish that he could idealise as the Greek poet had.

              (according to A Dalby Hippocrates recommends Myttotos for piles?????????)

              Ovid seems to be unawear of the need for garlic but does at least increase
              the chances that cheese was the dominant feature. His explanation is very
              odd. He has a habit of inventing logical explanations for phenomina he
              encounters in his modern world, the origins of which go back to far even for
              him to understood.

              There does appear to be a pesto link in that these cheese mixes developed
              into pesto but I dont think you can use pesto in order to understand moretum.

              My mouse has just packed up I am off to buy a new one. I wanted to say more
              about the Aristophanes and the Peace ref as I though it would be relavant
              but I now think its a red herring????

              sally
            • swans_cove
              Thanks to this wonderful list, I will be preparing moretum for a person in our group who is a devotee of Cybele. Looks wonderful, and I am sure she will be
              Message 6 of 14 , Jun 29, 2003
                Thanks to this wonderful list, I will be preparing moretum for a
                person in our group who is a devotee of Cybele. Looks wonderful, and
                I am sure she will be pleased to have it.

                BB

                Selkie
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