Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

yule potluck dish

Expand Messages
  • Octavian Düm
    Salve all, I m thinking of making the dish of scallops for a putlock my barony is having for Yule. Anyone made it before and have suggestions? For
    Message 1 of 5 , Dec 2, 2012
      Salve all,

      I'm thinking of making the 'dish of scallops' for a putlock my barony is
      having for Yule. Anyone made it before and have suggestions? For
      instance, should I look for spelt flout or can I use regular flour?

      Octavius


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Terri Suter
      I would suggest trying the spelt flour if you can get it. I live in the midwest and found if fairly easily when I was looking for it a bit back. I believe I
      Message 2 of 5 , Dec 2, 2012
        I would suggest trying the spelt flour if you can get it. I live in the midwest and found if fairly easily when I was looking for it a bit back. I believe I used the "Bob's Red Mill" Brand which is a fairly popular brand of special cereals, grains, etc. here in the midwest. You may be able to find it at your health food store, Whole Foods, etc and online....It can also be purchased fairly inexpensively and is small quantities (I think a 2-3 lb bag if I remember correctly), so you're not left over with tons of a specialty flour (which makes yummy bread too)....I'm just thinking for that price, why not give it a try :) 

         
        Just my 2 cents
        ~Alianora
        From: Octavian Düm <octavian@...>
        To: Apicius@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sunday, December 2, 2012 3:02 PM
        Subject: [Apicius] yule potluck dish

         
        Salve all,

        I'm thinking of making the 'dish of scallops' for a putlock my barony is
        having for Yule. Anyone made it before and have suggestions? For
        instance, should I look for spelt flout or can I use regular flour?

        Octavius

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Justin Mansfield
        Iustinus Octavio salutem plurimam! I assume your e referring to the recipe numbered 2.1.6 in Grainger & Grocock s edition, pp. 148—9? Namely: *esicia ex
        Message 3 of 5 , Dec 2, 2012
          Iustinus Octavio salutem plurimam!

          I assume your'e referring to the recipe numbered 2.1.6 in Grainger &
          Grocock's edition, pp. 148�9? Namely:

          *esicia ex fondilis: elixatos fondilos contere et nervos eorum eximes;
          deinde cum eis alicam elixatam, ova conteres, <piper, liquamen; isicia ex
          his facies cum nucleis et> pipere. In omento assabis. Oenogaro perfundes et
          pro esiciis inferes.*


          My translation:

          *Isicia* from *spondyli*: boil and pound the *spondyli* and remove their
          sinews; then pound boiled *alicae* and eggs with them, pepper, and *
          liquamen.* Make *isicia *out of these ingredients, along with pinenuts and
          pepper. Roast them in caul. Cover with *oenogarum* and serve as *isicia.*
          *
          *

          My notes:


          - *isicia* � variously rendered "forcemeat," "risole," "faggot,"
          "meatball," etc. I consider it a fairly broad term for food made out of
          ground meat. A linguistic note: sometimes the word is *isicium*, making
          the plural *isicia*, sometimes it's *isicia*, plural *isiciae*. Both can
          be considered correct, but the former is the case here. The word is also
          spelled a zillion different ways: *insicia, isichia*, *esicia*, and so
          on (the spelling with the -n- seems to be the original, but it's pretty
          rare).
          - *spondyli *� literally "vertebrae," here probably the shellfish of the
          same name. Vehling does translate it "scallops," but he's not usually the
          most reliable source on this kind of thing. Grainger & Grocock translate it
          "mussels," and Dalby identifies this word with the bivalve known to
          biologists as *Spondylus gaederopus*, common name "European thorny
          oyster." It supposedly can also refer to cardoons, or possibly just part of
          the cardoon, but even if that's true it clearly must be meat in this recipe.
          - boil � This is the literal meaning, but "one would not want to do this
          to a mussel!" and translates "cook" instead. This is legitimate,
          because Latin is often not as specific as English when it comes to verbs
          referring to different cooking techniques.
          - remove their sinews � Grainger translates this "beard them," and says
          that despite the order in the recipe, this must be done *before* the
          cooking.
          - *alicae* � refers to roughly ground farro (the consistency may vary.)
          While many older translations say "spelt," farro (also known as "emmer") is
          not the same thing, but a somewhat similar grain. When I make Roman recipes
          with Farro I normally use farro couscous (
          http://www.biaitalia.it/bia/lang1/organic_line.html,
          http://www.biaitalia.it/bia/lang1/organic_line.html), or "cracked" or
          "split" farro (
          http://www.bluebirdgrainfarms.com/bluebird-emmer-farro.html) � I imagine
          these to correspond to the three degrees of fineness mentioned by Pliny.
          - *liquamen* � as you hopefully know already, this can be translated
          approximately "fish sauce." Sally Grainger will be happy to supply more
          details should you need them ;)
          - *oenogarum* � a sauce made out of wine and fish sauce (I believe there
          are fuller recipes in the sources, but can't be bothered to look them up
          right now.)

          Did Grainger (or anyone else) do a redaction of this recipe? Anyone know
          offhand?

          Vale et valete


          On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 3:02 PM, Octavian D�m <octavian@...
          > wrote:

          > **
          >
          >
          > Salve all,
          >
          > I'm thinking of making the 'dish of scallops' for a putlock my barony is
          > having for Yule. Anyone made it before and have suggestions? For
          > instance, should I look for spelt flout or can I use regular flour?
          >
          > Octavius
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Justin Mansfield
          ... I accidentally gave the Bia Italia link twice in a row. I meant for the second link to be http://poggiodelfarro.com/ita/couscous.html instead. Note that in
          Message 4 of 5 , Dec 3, 2012
            I have to make a few corrections:


            > - boil � This is the literal meaning, but "one would not want to do
            > this to a mussel!" and translates "cook" instead. This is legitimate,
            > because Latin is often not as specific as English when it comes to verbs
            > referring to different cooking techniques.
            >
            > Read: ... but Grainger comments "one would not want to do this..."



            > - *alicae* � refers to roughly ground farro (the consistency may
            > vary.) While many older translations say "spelt," farro (also known as
            > "emmer") is not the same thing, but a somewhat similar grain. When I make
            > Roman recipes with Farro I normally use farro couscous (
            > http://www.biaitalia.it/bia/lang1/organic_line.html,
            > http://www.biaitalia.it/bia/lang1/organic_line.html), or "cracked" or
            > "split" farro (
            > http://www.bluebirdgrainfarms.com/bluebird-emmer-farro.html) � I
            > imagine these to correspond to the three degrees of fineness mentioned by
            > Pliny.
            >
            >
            I accidentally gave the Bia Italia link twice in a row. I meant for the
            second link to be http://poggiodelfarro.com/ita/couscous.html instead.

            Note that in the US you can get a box of the Bia couscous from Amazon.com
            for $5.50, which would be a great deal if not for the $3.99 in shipping.
            Still, if you're interested:
            http://www.amazon.com/Biaitalia-100%25-Farro-Couscous-1-1/dp/B003UI61WK/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1354522254&sr=8-3

            Just for reference, by the way:

            - Farro or Emmer is *Triticum dicoccon*, in classical Latin *far*, *
            alicae*, *ador*, and sometimes *zea*.
            - Spelt is *Triticum spelta*, classical Latin *spelta, scandula*.

            Hope this helps!


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Octavian Düm
            I forgot to reply last night, but this is what is in the copy of the Apicius book I have, copied from the gutenburg project version of it but it sounds almost
            Message 5 of 5 , Dec 5, 2012
              I forgot to reply last night, but this is what is in the copy of the
              Apicius book I have, copied from the gutenburg project version of it but it
              sounds almost identical... (
              http://www.gutenberg.org/files/29728/29728-h/29728-h.htm )


              [Lightly] COOK SCALLOPS [or the firm part of oysters] REMOVE THE HARD AND
              OBJECTIONABLE PARTS, MINCE THE MEAT VERY FINE, MIX THIS WITH COOKED SPELT
              AND [64]EGGS, SEASON WITH PEPPER, [shape into croquettes and wrap] IN CAUL,
              FRY, UNDERLAY A RICH FISH SAUCE AND SERVE AS A DELICIOUS ENTR�E

              On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 5:50 AM, "Justin Mansfield" iustinus@... wrote:
              >
              > Date: Sun Dec 2, 2012 11:59 pm ((PST))
              >
              > Iustinus Octavio salutem plurimam!
              >
              > I assume your'e referring to the recipe numbered 2.1.6 in Grainger &
              > Grocock's edition, pp. 148�9? Namely:
              >
              > *esicia ex fondilis: elixatos fondilos contere et nervos eorum eximes;
              > deinde cum eis alicam elixatam, ova conteres, <piper, liquamen; isicia ex
              > his facies cum nucleis et> pipere. In omento assabis. Oenogaro perfundes et
              > pro esiciis inferes.*
              >
              >
              > My translation:
              >
              > *Isicia* from *spondyli*: boil and pound the *spondyli* and remove their
              > sinews; then pound boiled *alicae* and eggs with them, pepper, and *
              > liquamen.* Make *isicia *out of these ingredients, along with pinenuts and
              > pepper. Roast them in caul. Cover with *oenogarum* and serve as *isicia.*
              > *
              > *
              >
              > My notes:
              >
              >
              > - *isicia* � variously rendered "forcemeat," "risole," "faggot,"
              > "meatball," etc. I consider it a fairly broad term for food made out of
              > ground meat. A linguistic note: sometimes the word is *isicium*, making
              > the plural *isicia*, sometimes it's *isicia*, plural *isiciae*. Both can
              > be considered correct, but the former is the case here. The word is also
              > spelled a zillion different ways: *insicia, isichia*, *esicia*, and so
              > on (the spelling with the -n- seems to be the original, but it's pretty
              > rare).
              > - *spondyli *� literally "vertebrae," here probably the shellfish of the
              > same name. Vehling does translate it "scallops," but he's not usually
              > the
              > most reliable source on this kind of thing. Grainger & Grocock
              > translate it
              > "mussels," and Dalby identifies this word with the bivalve known to
              > biologists as *Spondylus gaederopus*, common name "European thorny
              > oyster." It supposedly can also refer to cardoons, or possibly just
              > part of
              > the cardoon, but even if that's true it clearly must be meat in this
              > recipe.
              > - boil � This is the literal meaning, but "one would not want to do this
              > to a mussel!" and translates "cook" instead. This is legitimate,
              > because Latin is often not as specific as English when it comes to verbs
              > referring to different cooking techniques.
              > - remove their sinews � Grainger translates this "beard them," and says
              > that despite the order in the recipe, this must be done *before* the
              > cooking.
              > - *alicae* � refers to roughly ground farro (the consistency may vary.)
              > While many older translations say "spelt," farro (also known as
              > "emmer") is
              > not the same thing, but a somewhat similar grain. When I make Roman
              > recipes
              > with Farro I normally use farro couscous (
              > http://www.biaitalia.it/bia/lang1/organic_line.html,
              > http://www.biaitalia.it/bia/lang1/organic_line.html), or "cracked" or
              > "split" farro (
              > http://www.bluebirdgrainfarms.com/bluebird-emmer-farro.html) � I
              > imagine
              > these to correspond to the three degrees of fineness mentioned by Pliny.
              > - *liquamen* � as you hopefully know already, this can be translated
              > approximately "fish sauce." Sally Grainger will be happy to supply more
              > details should you need them ;)
              > - *oenogarum* � a sauce made out of wine and fish sauce (I believe there
              > are fuller recipes in the sources, but can't be bothered to look them up
              > right now.)
              >
              > Did Grainger (or anyone else) do a redaction of this recipe? Anyone know
              > offhand?
              >
              > Vale et valete
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.