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RE: [Apicius] Kykeon

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  • Kimetha Loidolt
    Actually a version of this made with whey, honey, and herbs is mentioned in many of the writings of physicians of the period. Hipprocates is quoted as writing
    Message 1 of 7 , Oct 23, 2012
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      Actually a version of this made with whey, honey, and herbs is mentioned in many of the writings of physicians of the period.

      Hipprocates is quoted as writing "...when Adrianus, the son of Ceneus, had a pain all around the belly,...prescribed goats whey, boiled..", Galen of Pergamon a 2nd century Physician drew on Hipprocates writings he wrote "...Simple whey is particularly proper for tender patients...whey is also safely exhibited to children, women, and old persons, even during the heat of a fever..."

      Is it possible that whey was the liquid used to make the drink?

      Kimetha Loidolt
      kloidolt@...<mailto:kloidolt@...>


      ________________________________
      From: Apicius@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Apicius@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Warriior Chef
      Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 12:12 PM
      To: Apicius@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [Apicius] Kykeon



      Buttermilk works well enough as an idea...

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: sallygrain@...<mailto:sallygrain%40aol.com>
      To: Apicius@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Apicius%40yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 8:55 AM
      Subject: Re: [Apicius] Kykeon

      It was well done. It is hard to deal with the idea of a drink that was curdled - as Andrew translates the verb associated with the name. Diluting it makes sence too

      sally

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Justin Mansfield <iustinus@...<mailto:iustinus%40gmail.com>>
      To: Apicius <Apicius@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Apicius%40yahoogroups.com>>
      Sent: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 16:29
      Subject: [Apicius] Kykeon

      Here's a nice blog entry on kykeon (or as I prefer to spell it, Latinly,
      cyceon):

      http://www.historyofgreekfood.org/2012/10/mixing-kykeon.html

      Well done.

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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Phoenix
      Whey is not the same as barley water that has been left to ferment overnight or for a few days - the effect and flavor are not the same. Whey is mild (though
      Message 2 of 7 , Nov 17, 2012
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        Whey is not the same as barley water that has been left to ferment
        overnight or for a few days - the effect and flavor are not the same.
        Whey is mild (though the scent may not be that mild for goat whey) and
        perhaps an easier to digest liquid than whole milk for those who are
        sick. There are a couple of recipes for using it on the Wikipedia page
        ("Wine whey" and "Cream of Tartar whey"):
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whey

        Here is a link to yummy recipe for palak paneer, which uses whey along
        with the homemade cheese, paneer.
        http://www.toomanychefs.com/archives/001367.php

        There is a chapter about Kykeon in Karl Kerenyi's Eleusis:Archetypal
        Image of Mother and Daughter. He wrote:

        "Ovid's addition to the Homeric recipe is contained in the word tosta.
        Tosta polenta means roasted barley groats. Obviously this addition
        springs from a Greek source, for among Greeks barley was roasted before
        being crushed into groats: Graeci perfusum aqua hordeum siccant nocte
        una ac postero frigunt, deinde molis frangunt. (The Greeks dry for one
        night the barley that has been soaked in water; afterward they roast it,
        and then they crush ity between two stones.") [footnote 5] In
        accordance with a law of Solon, the phrugetron, the vessel for roasting
        barley, was carried by the bride in the nuptial procession as a symbol
        of the housewife's duties (Pollux I 246). Roasted barley in water
        produces malt and a drink which may taste sweet without the addition of
        any sweetening whatever and become alcoholic after short fermentation.
        [footnote 6] The Goddess had no need to wait for fermentation before
        her kykeon became alcoholic. We have testimony to the effect that the
        kykeon was - illicitly - drunk in Athens on the day before the
        procession to Eleusis (see p. 62), and we also know the form of the
        characteristic vessels in which the beverage was carried in the
        procession. [footnote 7] It can be inferred from Arnobius' word ebibi
        ("I drank out," "I drank the whole potion") that a definite dose had to
        be taken. The dose in that case would have been the exact quantity
        contained in the small pots carried in the hands of the men in the
        procession. " (pp.178-179)

        Kerenyi then references personal correspondence from Albert Hoffman
        regarding the phenomenon of visions and or hallucinations that can come
        from fasting alone, as well as in combination with even mild doses of
        alcohol or other entheogens.

        Pennyroyal (mentha pulegium) has a pleasant minty scent and taste, but
        in large quantities it can produce mild euphoria - it is also used as an
        emmenagogue to make the menses flow when there is pain, cramping, or a
        pregnancy to be terminated, if one knows their herbal medicine well
        enough. The article mentions this in the recipe for 'the red flux'.

        When our Chicago Earthstar group was up & running in the '80s, we made
        Demeter's kykeon, covering it with cloth and letting it ferment
        overnight, and another batch sat for three days. It was a mild and
        pleasant buzz, undoubtedly with more powerful effect if one has done a
        complete fast for a day or more beforehand. This was done without
        mixing it with wine, of course, since it is the Goddess' drink.

        Regarding curdling, there is no mention of whey or milk for the sacred
        kykeon recipe, but since the word means 'stirred, mixed drink', why
        would curds for the medicinal or relaxing dairy mixture be unpleasant?
        It is not as thoroughly blended as a modern milkshake, but it is along
        those lines, texture wise, if one is a good stirrer. A previous post
        mentions buttermilk, a great example of a thick drink. How about eggnog
        as a mildly thickened beverage? Kefir is a thick curdled drink, a sort
        of yogurt-like beverage, and it is a popular enough item to be in
        mainstream grocery stores. There are Japanese soda pop's that come with
        tapioca pearls in them. The kykeon we made was thinner than kefir, not
        quite as thin as the Japanese pop or gruel-like but a slightly thickened
        drink with a mild 'kick'.

        Another thing to be aware of regarding visions and ritual intoxication
        with kykeon is that the poppy is the flower of Demeter (and associated
        with Hypnos, Thanatos, Asklepios, Nyx, Aphrodite, Adonis). The poppy
        grew wild in ancient wheat fields, and it was also cultivated in
        rotation with grains to give the fields 'rest' before planting grain on
        them again. The poppy juice could be an unwritten 'holy secret' that
        was added to the mixture. It was a specific cult item, one of the
        flowers that Persephone had been gathering in the field before her
        abduction, and well known for millennia as a plant that could ease pain
        and help one to sleep and dream. There is no hard and fast evidence I
        know of this, so it is speculation on my part that the totemic flower of
        the Goddess would possibly be used in Her holy communion beverage.

        Well, back to coffee for me today!
        Have fun,
        Demetria




        --- In Apicius@yahoogroups.com, Kimetha Loidolt <kloidolt@...> wrote:
        >
        > Actually a version of this made with whey, honey, and herbs is
        mentioned in many of the writings of physicians of the period.
        >
        > Hipprocates is quoted as writing "...when Adrianus, the son of Ceneus,
        had a pain all around the belly,...prescribed goats whey, boiled..",
        Galen of Pergamon a 2nd century Physician drew on Hipprocates writings
        he wrote "...Simple whey is particularly proper for tender
        patients...whey is also safely exhibited to children, women, and old
        persons, even during the heat of a fever..."
        >
        > Is it possible that whey was the liquid used to make the drink?
        >
        > Kimetha Loidolt
        > kloidolt@...<mailto:kloidolt@...
        >
        >
        > ________________________________
        > From: Apicius@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Apicius@yahoogroups.com] On
        Behalf Of Warriior Chef
        > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 12:12 PM
        > To: Apicius@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [Apicius] Kykeon
        >
        >
        >
        > Buttermilk works well enough as an idea...
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: sallygrain@...<mailto:sallygrain%40aol.com>
        > To: Apicius@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Apicius%40yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 8:55 AM
        > Subject: Re: [Apicius] Kykeon
        >
        > It was well done. It is hard to deal with the idea of a drink that was
        curdled - as Andrew translates the verb associated with the name.
        Diluting it makes sence too
        >
        > sally
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: Justin Mansfield iustinus@...<mailto:iustinus%40gmail.com>>
        > To: Apicius Apicius@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Apicius%40yahoogroups.com>>
        > Sent: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 16:29
        > Subject: [Apicius] Kykeon
        >
        > Here's a nice blog entry on kykeon (or as I prefer to spell it,
        Latinly,
        > cyceon):
        >
        > http://www.historyofgreekfood.org/2012/10/mixing-kykeon.html
        >
        > Well done.
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >



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