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Re: [Apicius] Digest Number 1558

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  • lisa blair
    Correus, I usually add a bit to the meat, several Tsp. And also put a small quantity in the pan, 2 or 3 ice cubes worth. I have found that a little bit goes a
    Message 1 of 4 , Apr 3, 2011
    • 0 Attachment
      Correus,

      I usually add a bit to the meat, several Tsp. And also put a small quantity in the pan, 2 or 3 ice cubes worth. I have found that a little bit goes a long way with this dish, and when it mingles with the fat, it seems to sweeten a bit.
      By mixing both methods, you get the flavor of the Caroenum in the meat and then a cooked flavor in the juice. As with all cooking liquids, flavors change sometimes drastically when heat is applied. Once mixed, just cover with tin foil or a tight fitting lid...
      As per Arabic text, the secret is with the heat.... A quiet fire or slow simmer.

      Gwenhwyvar

      On Apr 2, 2011, at 6:28 AM, Apicius@yahoogroups.com wrote:

      > This list is for sharing experiences in Antique Roman cookery. Relevant subjects are: Discussion on antique roman/celt/greek coo
      > Messages In This Digest (3 Messages)
      > 1a.
      > Re: Isicia Omentata and Other Items (was Caroenum) From: lisa blair
      > 1b.
      > Re: Isicia Omentata and Other Items (was Caroenum) From: Correus
      > 1c.
      > Re: Isicia Omentata and Other Items (was Caroenum) From: Lori Tishgart
      > View All Topics | Create New TopicMessages
      > 1a.
      > Re: Isicia Omentata and Other Items (was Caroenum)
      > Posted by: "lisa blair" gwenhwyvar@... darkagecook
      > Fri Apr 1, 2011 9:56 am (PDT)
      >
      >
      >
      > Salve,
      >
      > I have made Caroemun in large batches and frozen it in ice trays. Just put them in ziplock after they freeze to keep them from absorbing freezer odors.
      >
      > Kept in an airtight container out of light, Juniper berries should keep for several year. I rotate out all of my spices about every two years.
      >
      > I use meat with a high fat content for Omentata and cook them slowly in their own fat in a slow roaster.
      >
      > Gwenwhyvar
      >
      > Correus wrote:
      >
      > Ave Everyone!
      >
      > Per Lucia - "Concentrate grape juice?"
      >
      > I thought about using this - straight from the container. I wonder if it would be too sweet.
      >
      > Per Lori T. - "I make a larger batch and then freeze it in small amounts in Ziplocs for later use. What dish are you making?"
      >
      > I have done this in the past but haven't done it with Roman ingredients like this. When Sally's book 'Cooking Apicius' first came out I made batches of Adapted fish sauce, Defrutum and Caroenum. I've never been sure how long the stuff lasts in the fridge so I threw it out and never really replaced it.
      >
      > Also - passum.... Does anyone else out there use Manischewitz?
      >
      > The recipe I'm looking at is Isicia omentata. In this recipe several sources say to add about 2 Tbs of Caroenum to the meat, however, Sally G., as well as Giacosa, say to cook the meat IN the Caroenum.
      >
      > Now for another question in regard to this recipe - Omentum a.k.a Caul Fat. How many of you use this or do you substitute it for something else? Flower & Rosenbaum suggest tinfoil or grease-proof paper, something to keep the juices in. Seems to me the caul fat would add an extra layer of flavor.
      >
      > One last thing - Myrtle berries / Juniper berries. I need to find mine, there around here somewhere. Anyone have any idea of the shelf life for these? What would be a good substitute for them?
      >
      > Vale -
      > Correus
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      > Back to topReply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
      > Messages in this topic (4)
      > 1b.
      > Re: Isicia Omentata and Other Items (was Caroenum)
      > Posted by: "Correus" correus@... correus
      > Fri Apr 1, 2011 11:07 am (PDT)
      >
      >
      >
      > Gwenwhyvar -
      >
      > I think I will make a batch and freeze it as well.
      >
      > My juniper berries I know are in a cool dark place if they didn't get thrown out accidentally.
      >
      > Okay, now for the Omentata.
      >
      > You said "use meat with a high fat content for Omentata and cook them slowly in their own fat in a slow roaster". Do you add the Caroenum to the meat or do you roast the meat in the Caroenum?
      >
      > Vale -
      > Correus
      >
      > --- On Fri, 4/1/11, lisa blair <gwenhwyvar@...> wrote:
      >
      > From: lisa blair <gwenhwyvar@...>
      > Subject: [Apicius] Re: Isicia Omentata and Other Items (was Caroenum)
      > To: Apicius@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Friday, April 1, 2011, 11:56 AM
      >
      >
      >
      > Salve,
      >
      > I have made Caroemun in large batches and frozen it in ice trays. Just put them in ziplock after they freeze to keep them from absorbing freezer odors.
      >
      > Kept in an airtight container out of light, Juniper berries should keep for several year. I rotate out all of my spices about every two years.
      >
      > I use meat with a high fat content for Omentata and cook them slowly in their own fat in a slow roaster.
      >
      > Gwenwhyvar
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      > Back to topReply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
      > Messages in this topic (4)
      > 1c.
      > Re: Isicia Omentata and Other Items (was Caroenum)
      > Posted by: "Lori Tishgart" ltishgart@... ltishgart
      > Fri Apr 1, 2011 12:27 pm (PDT)
      >
      >
      >
      > I have done the same thing with freezing my homemade Defrutum too and it works
      > very well. Regarding the juniper berries, they do keep a very long time. I
      > have mused that even after a couple of years on the shelf, I wonder if I am
      > actually recreating a more authentic flavor using the older spices. After all,
      > it took quite awhile for spices to reach their final customer in the Roman
      > Empire and, most likely, did not travel under the ideal shipping conditions nor
      > stored in airtight containers on a cool, dark shelf after they were purchased.
      > Enjoy the Omentata! Lori T.
      >
      > ________________________________
      > From: Correus <correus@...>
      > To: Apicius@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Fri, April 1, 2011 11:07:12 AM
      > Subject: Re: [Apicius] Re: Isicia Omentata and Other Items (was Caroenum)
      >
      > Gwenwhyvar -
      >
      > I think I will make a batch and freeze it as well.
      >
      > My juniper berries I know are in a cool dark place if they didn't get thrown out
      > accidentally.
      >
      > Okay, now for the Omentata.
      >
      > You said "use meat with a high fat content for Omentata and cook them slowly in
      > their own fat in a slow roaster". Do you add the Caroenum to the meat or do you
      > roast the meat in the Caroenum?
      >
      > Vale -
      > Correus
      >
      > --- On Fri, 4/1/11, lisa blair <gwenhwyvar@...> wrote:
      >
      > From: lisa blair <gwenhwyvar@...>
      > Subject: [Apicius] Re: Isicia Omentata and Other Items (was Caroenum)
      > To: Apicius@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Friday, April 1, 2011, 11:56 AM
      >
      > Salve,
      >
      > I have made Caroemun in large batches and frozen it in ice trays. Just put them
      > in ziplock after they freeze to keep them from absorbing freezer odors.
      >
      > Kept in an airtight container out of light, Juniper berries should keep for
      > several year. I rotate out all of my spices about every two years.
      >
      > I use meat with a high fat content for Omentata and cook them slowly in their
      > own fat in a slow roaster.
      >
      > Gwenwhyvar
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      > Back to topReply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
      > Messages in this topic (4)
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      >



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Correus
      Sounds like a plan Gwenhwyvar! When you say once mixed, just cover with tin foil or a tight fitting lid... are you referring to when you are cooking it or
      Message 2 of 4 , Apr 3, 2011
      • 0 Attachment
        Sounds like a plan
        Gwenhwyvar!

        When you say "once mixed, just cover with tin foil or a tight fitting lid..." are you referring to when you are cooking it or after mixing the ingredients and letting them rest before forming into patties/balls?

        Correus

        --- On Sun, 4/3/11, lisa blair <gwenhwyvar@...> wrote:

        From: lisa blair <gwenhwyvar@...>
        Subject: Re: [Apicius] Digest Number 1558
        To: Apicius@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Sunday, April 3, 2011, 12:40 PM
















         









        Correus,



        I usually add a bit to the meat, several Tsp. And also put a small quantity in the pan, 2 or 3 ice cubes worth. I have found that a little bit goes a long way with this dish, and when it mingles with the fat, it seems to sweeten a bit.

        By mixing both methods, you get the flavor of the Caroenum in the meat and then a cooked flavor in the juice. As with all cooking liquids, flavors change sometimes drastically when heat is applied. Once mixed, just cover with tin foil or a tight fitting lid...

        As per Arabic text, the secret is with the heat.... A quiet fire or slow simmer.



        Gwenhwyvar



        On Apr 2, 2011, at 6:28 AM, Apicius@yahoogroups.com wrote:



        > This list is for sharing experiences in Antique Roman cookery. Relevant subjects are: Discussion on antique roman/celt/greek coo

        > Messages In This Digest (3 Messages)

        > 1a.

        > Re: Isicia Omentata and Other Items (was Caroenum) From: lisa blair

        > 1b.

        > Re: Isicia Omentata and Other Items (was Caroenum) From: Correus

        > 1c.

        > Re: Isicia Omentata and Other Items (was Caroenum) From: Lori Tishgart

        > View All Topics | Create New TopicMessages

        > 1a.

        > Re: Isicia Omentata and Other Items (was Caroenum)

        > Posted by: "lisa blair" gwenhwyvar@... darkagecook

        > Fri Apr 1, 2011 9:56 am (PDT)

        >

        >

        >

        > Salve,

        >

        > I have made Caroemun in large batches and frozen it in ice trays. Just put them in ziplock after they freeze to keep them from absorbing freezer odors.

        >

        > Kept in an airtight container out of light, Juniper berries should keep for several year. I rotate out all of my spices about every two years.

        >

        > I use meat with a high fat content for Omentata and cook them slowly in their own fat in a slow roaster.

        >

        > Gwenwhyvar

        >

        > Correus wrote:

        >

        > Ave Everyone!

        >

        > Per Lucia - "Concentrate grape juice?"

        >

        > I thought about using this - straight from the container. I wonder if it would be too sweet.

        >

        > Per Lori T. - "I make a larger batch and then freeze it in small amounts in Ziplocs for later use. What dish are you making?"

        >

        > I have done this in the past but haven't done it with Roman ingredients like this. When Sally's book 'Cooking Apicius' first came out I made batches of Adapted fish sauce, Defrutum and Caroenum. I've never been sure how long the stuff lasts in the fridge so I threw it out and never really replaced it.

        >

        > Also - passum.... Does anyone else out there use Manischewitz?

        >

        > The recipe I'm looking at is Isicia omentata. In this recipe several sources say to add about 2 Tbs of Caroenum to the meat, however, Sally G., as well as Giacosa, say to cook the meat IN the Caroenum.

        >

        > Now for another question in regard to this recipe - Omentum a.k.a Caul Fat. How many of you use this or do you substitute it for something else? Flower & Rosenbaum suggest tinfoil or grease-proof paper, something to keep the juices in. Seems to me the caul fat would add an extra layer of flavor.

        >

        > One last thing - Myrtle berries / Juniper berries. I need to find mine, there around here somewhere. Anyone have any idea of the shelf life for these? What would be a good substitute for them?

        >

        > Vale -

        > Correus

        >

        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        >

        > Back to topReply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post

        > Messages in this topic (4)

        > 1b.

        > Re: Isicia Omentata and Other Items (was Caroenum)

        > Posted by: "Correus" correus@... correus

        > Fri Apr 1, 2011 11:07 am (PDT)

        >

        >

        >

        > Gwenwhyvar -

        >

        > I think I will make a batch and freeze it as well.

        >

        > My juniper berries I know are in a cool dark place if they didn't get thrown out accidentally.

        >

        > Okay, now for the Omentata.

        >

        > You said "use meat with a high fat content for Omentata and cook them slowly in their own fat in a slow roaster". Do you add the Caroenum to the meat or do you roast the meat in the Caroenum?

        >

        > Vale -

        > Correus

        >

        > --- On Fri, 4/1/11, lisa blair <gwenhwyvar@...> wrote:

        >

        > From: lisa blair <gwenhwyvar@...>

        > Subject: [Apicius] Re: Isicia Omentata and Other Items (was Caroenum)

        > To: Apicius@yahoogroups.com

        > Date: Friday, April 1, 2011, 11:56 AM

        >

        >

        >

        > Salve,

        >

        > I have made Caroemun in large batches and frozen it in ice trays. Just put them in ziplock after they freeze to keep them from absorbing freezer odors.

        >

        > Kept in an airtight container out of light, Juniper berries should keep for several year. I rotate out all of my spices about every two years.

        >

        > I use meat with a high fat content for Omentata and cook them slowly in their own fat in a slow roaster.

        >

        > Gwenwhyvar

        >

        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        >

        > Back to topReply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post

        > Messages in this topic (4)

        > 1c.

        > Re: Isicia Omentata and Other Items (was Caroenum)

        > Posted by: "Lori Tishgart" ltishgart@... ltishgart

        > Fri Apr 1, 2011 12:27 pm (PDT)

        >

        >

        >

        > I have done the same thing with freezing my homemade Defrutum too and it works

        > very well. Regarding the juniper berries, they do keep a very long time. I

        > have mused that even after a couple of years on the shelf, I wonder if I am

        > actually recreating a more authentic flavor using the older spices. After all,

        > it took quite awhile for spices to reach their final customer in the Roman

        > Empire and, most likely, did not travel under the ideal shipping conditions nor

        > stored in airtight containers on a cool, dark shelf after they were purchased.

        > Enjoy the Omentata! Lori T.

        >

        > ________________________________

        > From: Correus <correus@...>

        > To: Apicius@yahoogroups.com

        > Sent: Fri, April 1, 2011 11:07:12 AM

        > Subject: Re: [Apicius] Re: Isicia Omentata and Other Items (was Caroenum)

        >

        > Gwenwhyvar -

        >

        > I think I will make a batch and freeze it as well.

        >

        > My juniper berries I know are in a cool dark place if they didn't get thrown out

        > accidentally.

        >

        > Okay, now for the Omentata.

        >

        > You said "use meat with a high fat content for Omentata and cook them slowly in

        > their own fat in a slow roaster". Do you add the Caroenum to the meat or do you

        > roast the meat in the Caroenum?

        >

        > Vale -

        > Correus

        >

        > --- On Fri, 4/1/11, lisa blair <gwenhwyvar@...> wrote:

        >

        > From: lisa blair <gwenhwyvar@...>

        > Subject: [Apicius] Re: Isicia Omentata and Other Items (was Caroenum)

        > To: Apicius@yahoogroups.com

        > Date: Friday, April 1, 2011, 11:56 AM

        >

        > Salve,

        >

        > I have made Caroemun in large batches and frozen it in ice trays. Just put them

        > in ziplock after they freeze to keep them from absorbing freezer odors.

        >

        > Kept in an airtight container out of light, Juniper berries should keep for

        > several year. I rotate out all of my spices about every two years.

        >

        > I use meat with a high fat content for Omentata and cook them slowly in their

        > own fat in a slow roaster.

        >

        > Gwenwhyvar

        >

        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        >

        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        >

        > Back to topReply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post

        > Messages in this topic (4)

        > RECENT ACTIVITY

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        > Yahoo! Groups

        > Cat Owners Group

        > Join a community

        > for cat lovers

        >

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        > Explore now.

        >

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        > Learn more now.

        > Reach customers

        > searching for you.

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        >



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



























        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Lucia Clark
        The tin foil would be the modern equivalent of sub testu ? Lucia _____ From: Apicius@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Apicius@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Correus
        Message 3 of 4 , Apr 3, 2011
        • 0 Attachment
          The tin foil would be the modern equivalent of "sub testu"?

          Lucia



          _____

          From: Apicius@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Apicius@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
          Correus
          Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2011 5:56 PM
          To: Apicius@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [Apicius] Digest Number 1558





          Sounds like a plan
          Gwenhwyvar!

          When you say "once mixed, just cover with tin foil or a tight fitting
          lid..." are you referring to when you are cooking it or after mixing the
          ingredients and letting them rest before forming into patties/balls?

          Correus

          --- On Sun, 4/3/11, lisa blair <gwenhwyvar@...
          <mailto:gwenhwyvar%40me.com> > wrote:

          From: lisa blair <gwenhwyvar@... <mailto:gwenhwyvar%40me.com> >
          Subject: Re: [Apicius] Digest Number 1558
          To: Apicius@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Apicius%40yahoogroups.com>
          Date: Sunday, April 3, 2011, 12:40 PM



          Correus,

          I usually add a bit to the meat, several Tsp. And also put a small quantity
          in the pan, 2 or 3 ice cubes worth. I have found that a little bit goes a
          long way with this dish, and when it mingles with the fat, it seems to
          sweeten a bit.

          By mixing both methods, you get the flavor of the Caroenum in the meat and
          then a cooked flavor in the juice. As with all cooking liquids, flavors
          change sometimes drastically when heat is applied. Once mixed, just cover
          with tin foil or a tight fitting lid...

          As per Arabic text, the secret is with the heat.... A quiet fire or slow
          simmer.

          Gwenhwyvar

          On Apr 2, 2011, at 6:28 AM, Apicius@yahoogroups.com
          <mailto:Apicius%40yahoogroups.com> wrote:

          > This list is for sharing experiences in Antique Roman cookery. Relevant
          subjects are: Discussion on antique roman/celt/greek coo

          > Messages In This Digest (3 Messages)

          > 1a.

          > Re: Isicia Omentata and Other Items (was Caroenum) From: lisa blair

          > 1b.

          > Re: Isicia Omentata and Other Items (was Caroenum) From: Correus

          > 1c.

          > Re: Isicia Omentata and Other Items (was Caroenum) From: Lori Tishgart

          > View All Topics | Create New TopicMessages

          > 1a.

          > Re: Isicia Omentata and Other Items (was Caroenum)

          > Posted by: "lisa blair" gwenhwyvar@... <mailto:gwenhwyvar%40me.com>
          darkagecook

          > Fri Apr 1, 2011 9:56 am (PDT)

          >

          >

          >

          > Salve,

          >

          > I have made Caroemun in large batches and frozen it in ice trays. Just put
          them in ziplock after they freeze to keep them from absorbing freezer odors.

          >

          > Kept in an airtight container out of light, Juniper berries should keep
          for several year. I rotate out all of my spices about every two years.

          >

          > I use meat with a high fat content for Omentata and cook them slowly in
          their own fat in a slow roaster.

          >

          > Gwenwhyvar

          >

          > Correus wrote:

          >

          > Ave Everyone!

          >

          > Per Lucia - "Concentrate grape juice?"

          >

          > I thought about using this - straight from the container. I wonder if it
          would be too sweet.

          >

          > Per Lori T. - "I make a larger batch and then freeze it in small amounts
          in Ziplocs for later use. What dish are you making?"

          >

          > I have done this in the past but haven't done it with Roman ingredients
          like this. When Sally's book 'Cooking Apicius' first came out I made batches
          of Adapted fish sauce, Defrutum and Caroenum. I've never been sure how long
          the stuff lasts in the fridge so I threw it out and never really replaced
          it.

          >

          > Also - passum.... Does anyone else out there use Manischewitz?

          >

          > The recipe I'm looking at is Isicia omentata. In this recipe several
          sources say to add about 2 Tbs of Caroenum to the meat, however, Sally G.,
          as well as Giacosa, say to cook the meat IN the Caroenum.

          >

          > Now for another question in regard to this recipe - Omentum a.k.a Caul
          Fat. How many of you use this or do you substitute it for something else?
          Flower & Rosenbaum suggest tinfoil or grease-proof paper, something to keep
          the juices in. Seems to me the caul fat would add an extra layer of flavor.

          >

          > One last thing - Myrtle berries / Juniper berries. I need to find mine,
          there around here somewhere. Anyone have any idea of the shelf life for
          these? What would be a good substitute for them?

          >

          > Vale -

          > Correus

          >

          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          >

          > Back to topReply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post

          > Messages in this topic (4)

          > 1b.

          > Re: Isicia Omentata and Other Items (was Caroenum)

          > Posted by: "Correus" correus@... <mailto:correus%40yahoo.com>
          correus

          > Fri Apr 1, 2011 11:07 am (PDT)

          >

          >

          >

          > Gwenwhyvar -

          >

          > I think I will make a batch and freeze it as well.

          >

          > My juniper berries I know are in a cool dark place if they didn't get
          thrown out accidentally.

          >

          > Okay, now for the Omentata.

          >

          > You said "use meat with a high fat content for Omentata and cook them
          slowly in their own fat in a slow roaster". Do you add the Caroenum to the
          meat or do you roast the meat in the Caroenum?

          >

          > Vale -

          > Correus

          >

          > --- On Fri, 4/1/11, lisa blair <gwenhwyvar@...
          <mailto:gwenhwyvar%40me.com> > wrote:

          >

          > From: lisa blair <gwenhwyvar@... <mailto:gwenhwyvar%40me.com> >

          > Subject: [Apicius] Re: Isicia Omentata and Other Items (was Caroenum)

          > To: Apicius@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Apicius%40yahoogroups.com>

          > Date: Friday, April 1, 2011, 11:56 AM

          >

          >

          >

          > Salve,

          >

          > I have made Caroemun in large batches and frozen it in ice trays. Just put
          them in ziplock after they freeze to keep them from absorbing freezer odors.

          >

          > Kept in an airtight container out of light, Juniper berries should keep
          for several year. I rotate out all of my spices about every two years.

          >

          > I use meat with a high fat content for Omentata and cook them slowly in
          their own fat in a slow roaster.

          >

          > Gwenwhyvar

          >

          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          >

          > Back to topReply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post

          > Messages in this topic (4)

          > 1c.

          > Re: Isicia Omentata and Other Items (was Caroenum)

          > Posted by: "Lori Tishgart" ltishgart@...
          <mailto:ltishgart%40yahoo.com> ltishgart

          > Fri Apr 1, 2011 12:27 pm (PDT)

          >

          >

          >

          > I have done the same thing with freezing my homemade Defrutum too and it
          works

          > very well. Regarding the juniper berries, they do keep a very long time. I


          > have mused that even after a couple of years on the shelf, I wonder if I
          am

          > actually recreating a more authentic flavor using the older spices. After
          all,

          > it took quite awhile for spices to reach their final customer in the Roman


          > Empire and, most likely, did not travel under the ideal shipping
          conditions nor

          > stored in airtight containers on a cool, dark shelf after they were
          purchased.

          > Enjoy the Omentata! Lori T.

          >

          > ________________________________

          > From: Correus <correus@... <mailto:correus%40yahoo.com> >

          > To: Apicius@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Apicius%40yahoogroups.com>

          > Sent: Fri, April 1, 2011 11:07:12 AM

          > Subject: Re: [Apicius] Re: Isicia Omentata and Other Items (was Caroenum)

          >

          > Gwenwhyvar -

          >

          > I think I will make a batch and freeze it as well.

          >

          > My juniper berries I know are in a cool dark place if they didn't get
          thrown out

          > accidentally.

          >

          > Okay, now for the Omentata.

          >

          > You said "use meat with a high fat content for Omentata and cook them
          slowly in

          > their own fat in a slow roaster". Do you add the Caroenum to the meat or
          do you

          > roast the meat in the Caroenum?

          >

          > Vale -

          > Correus

          >

          > --- On Fri, 4/1/11, lisa blair <gwenhwyvar@...
          <mailto:gwenhwyvar%40me.com> > wrote:

          >

          > From: lisa blair <gwenhwyvar@... <mailto:gwenhwyvar%40me.com> >

          > Subject: [Apicius] Re: Isicia Omentata and Other Items (was Caroenum)

          > To: Apicius@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Apicius%40yahoogroups.com>

          > Date: Friday, April 1, 2011, 11:56 AM

          >

          > Salve,

          >

          > I have made Caroemun in large batches and frozen it in ice trays. Just put
          them

          > in ziplock after they freeze to keep them from absorbing freezer odors.

          >

          > Kept in an airtight container out of light, Juniper berries should keep
          for

          > several year. I rotate out all of my spices about every two years.

          >

          > I use meat with a high fat content for Omentata and cook them slowly in
          their

          > own fat in a slow roaster.

          >

          > Gwenwhyvar

          >

          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          >

          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          >

          > Back to topReply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post

          > Messages in this topic (4)

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        • Correus
          Ah...I m tracking now.  I have something very similar to a testum/clibanus; it s not perfect, put it would work. Correus ... From: Lucia Clark
          Message 4 of 4 , Apr 4, 2011
          • 0 Attachment
            Ah...I'm tracking now. 

            I have something very similar to a testum/clibanus; it's not perfect, put it would work.

            Correus

            --- On Sun, 4/3/11, Lucia Clark <luciaclark@...> wrote:

            From: Lucia Clark <luciaclark@...>
            Subject: RE: [Apicius] Digest Number 1558
            To: Apicius@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Sunday, April 3, 2011, 7:59 PM
















             









            The tin foil would be the modern equivalent of "sub testu"?



            Lucia



            _____



            From: Apicius@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Apicius@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of

            Correus

            Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2011 5:56 PM

            To: Apicius@yahoogroups.com

            Subject: Re: [Apicius] Digest Number 1558



            Sounds like a plan

            Gwenhwyvar!



            When you say "once mixed, just cover with tin foil or a tight fitting

            lid..." are you referring to when you are cooking it or after mixing the

            ingredients and letting them rest before forming into patties/balls?



            Correus



            --- On Sun, 4/3/11, lisa blair <gwenhwyvar@...

            <mailto:gwenhwyvar%40me.com> > wrote:



            From: lisa blair <gwenhwyvar@... <mailto:gwenhwyvar%40me.com> >

            Subject: Re: [Apicius] Digest Number 1558

            To: Apicius@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Apicius%40yahoogroups.com>

            Date: Sunday, April 3, 2011, 12:40 PM



            Correus,



            I usually add a bit to the meat, several Tsp. And also put a small quantity

            in the pan, 2 or 3 ice cubes worth. I have found that a little bit goes a

            long way with this dish, and when it mingles with the fat, it seems to

            sweeten a bit.



            By mixing both methods, you get the flavor of the Caroenum in the meat and

            then a cooked flavor in the juice. As with all cooking liquids, flavors

            change sometimes drastically when heat is applied. Once mixed, just cover

            with tin foil or a tight fitting lid...



            As per Arabic text, the secret is with the heat.... A quiet fire or slow

            simmer.



            Gwenhwyvar



            On Apr 2, 2011, at 6:28 AM, Apicius@yahoogroups.com

            <mailto:Apicius%40yahoogroups.com> wrote:



            > This list is for sharing experiences in Antique Roman cookery. Relevant

            subjects are: Discussion on antique roman/celt/greek coo



            > Messages In This Digest (3 Messages)



            > 1a.



            > Re: Isicia Omentata and Other Items (was Caroenum) From: lisa blair



            > 1b.



            > Re: Isicia Omentata and Other Items (was Caroenum) From: Correus



            > 1c.



            > Re: Isicia Omentata and Other Items (was Caroenum) From: Lori Tishgart



            > View All Topics | Create New TopicMessages



            > 1a.



            > Re: Isicia Omentata and Other Items (was Caroenum)



            > Posted by: "lisa blair" gwenhwyvar@... <mailto:gwenhwyvar%40me.com>

            darkagecook



            > Fri Apr 1, 2011 9:56 am (PDT)



            >



            >



            >



            > Salve,



            >



            > I have made Caroemun in large batches and frozen it in ice trays. Just put

            them in ziplock after they freeze to keep them from absorbing freezer odors.



            >



            > Kept in an airtight container out of light, Juniper berries should keep

            for several year. I rotate out all of my spices about every two years.



            >



            > I use meat with a high fat content for Omentata and cook them slowly in

            their own fat in a slow roaster.



            >



            > Gwenwhyvar



            >



            > Correus wrote:



            >



            > Ave Everyone!



            >



            > Per Lucia - "Concentrate grape juice?"



            >



            > I thought about using this - straight from the container. I wonder if it

            would be too sweet.



            >



            > Per Lori T. - "I make a larger batch and then freeze it in small amounts

            in Ziplocs for later use. What dish are you making?"



            >



            > I have done this in the past but haven't done it with Roman ingredients

            like this. When Sally's book 'Cooking Apicius' first came out I made batches

            of Adapted fish sauce, Defrutum and Caroenum. I've never been sure how long

            the stuff lasts in the fridge so I threw it out and never really replaced

            it.



            >



            > Also - passum.... Does anyone else out there use Manischewitz?



            >



            > The recipe I'm looking at is Isicia omentata. In this recipe several

            sources say to add about 2 Tbs of Caroenum to the meat, however, Sally G.,

            as well as Giacosa, say to cook the meat IN the Caroenum.



            >



            > Now for another question in regard to this recipe - Omentum a.k.a Caul

            Fat. How many of you use this or do you substitute it for something else?

            Flower & Rosenbaum suggest tinfoil or grease-proof paper, something to keep

            the juices in. Seems to me the caul fat would add an extra layer of flavor.



            >



            > One last thing - Myrtle berries / Juniper berries. I need to find mine,

            there around here somewhere. Anyone have any idea of the shelf life for

            these? What would be a good substitute for them?



            >



            > Vale -



            > Correus



            >



            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



            >



            > Back to topReply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post



            > Messages in this topic (4)



            > 1b.



            > Re: Isicia Omentata and Other Items (was Caroenum)



            > Posted by: "Correus" correus@... <mailto:correus%40yahoo.com>

            correus



            > Fri Apr 1, 2011 11:07 am (PDT)



            >



            >



            >



            > Gwenwhyvar -



            >



            > I think I will make a batch and freeze it as well.



            >



            > My juniper berries I know are in a cool dark place if they didn't get

            thrown out accidentally.



            >



            > Okay, now for the Omentata.



            >



            > You said "use meat with a high fat content for Omentata and cook them

            slowly in their own fat in a slow roaster". Do you add the Caroenum to the

            meat or do you roast the meat in the Caroenum?



            >



            > Vale -



            > Correus



            >



            > --- On Fri, 4/1/11, lisa blair <gwenhwyvar@...

            <mailto:gwenhwyvar%40me.com> > wrote:



            >



            > From: lisa blair <gwenhwyvar@... <mailto:gwenhwyvar%40me.com> >



            > Subject: [Apicius] Re: Isicia Omentata and Other Items (was Caroenum)



            > To: Apicius@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Apicius%40yahoogroups.com>



            > Date: Friday, April 1, 2011, 11:56 AM



            >



            >



            >



            > Salve,



            >



            > I have made Caroemun in large batches and frozen it in ice trays. Just put

            them in ziplock after they freeze to keep them from absorbing freezer odors.



            >



            > Kept in an airtight container out of light, Juniper berries should keep

            for several year. I rotate out all of my spices about every two years.



            >



            > I use meat with a high fat content for Omentata and cook them slowly in

            their own fat in a slow roaster.



            >



            > Gwenwhyvar



            >



            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



            >



            > Back to topReply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post



            > Messages in this topic (4)



            > 1c.



            > Re: Isicia Omentata and Other Items (was Caroenum)



            > Posted by: "Lori Tishgart" ltishgart@...

            <mailto:ltishgart%40yahoo.com> ltishgart



            > Fri Apr 1, 2011 12:27 pm (PDT)



            >



            >



            >



            > I have done the same thing with freezing my homemade Defrutum too and it

            works



            > very well. Regarding the juniper berries, they do keep a very long time. I



            > have mused that even after a couple of years on the shelf, I wonder if I

            am



            > actually recreating a more authentic flavor using the older spices. After

            all,



            > it took quite awhile for spices to reach their final customer in the Roman



            > Empire and, most likely, did not travel under the ideal shipping

            conditions nor



            > stored in airtight containers on a cool, dark shelf after they were

            purchased.



            > Enjoy the Omentata! Lori T.



            >



            > ________________________________



            > From: Correus <correus@... <mailto:correus%40yahoo.com> >



            > To: Apicius@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Apicius%40yahoogroups.com>



            > Sent: Fri, April 1, 2011 11:07:12 AM



            > Subject: Re: [Apicius] Re: Isicia Omentata and Other Items (was Caroenum)



            >



            > Gwenwhyvar -



            >



            > I think I will make a batch and freeze it as well.



            >



            > My juniper berries I know are in a cool dark place if they didn't get

            thrown out



            > accidentally.



            >



            > Okay, now for the Omentata.



            >



            > You said "use meat with a high fat content for Omentata and cook them

            slowly in



            > their own fat in a slow roaster". Do you add the Caroenum to the meat or

            do you



            > roast the meat in the Caroenum?



            >



            > Vale -



            > Correus



            >



            > --- On Fri, 4/1/11, lisa blair <gwenhwyvar@...

            <mailto:gwenhwyvar%40me.com> > wrote:



            >



            > From: lisa blair <gwenhwyvar@... <mailto:gwenhwyvar%40me.com> >



            > Subject: [Apicius] Re: Isicia Omentata and Other Items (was Caroenum)



            > To: Apicius@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Apicius%40yahoogroups.com>



            > Date: Friday, April 1, 2011, 11:56 AM



            >



            > Salve,



            >



            > I have made Caroemun in large batches and frozen it in ice trays. Just put

            them



            > in ziplock after they freeze to keep them from absorbing freezer odors.



            >



            > Kept in an airtight container out of light, Juniper berries should keep

            for



            > several year. I rotate out all of my spices about every two years.



            >



            > I use meat with a high fat content for Omentata and cook them slowly in

            their



            > own fat in a slow roaster.



            >



            > Gwenwhyvar



            >



            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



            >



            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



            >



            > Back to topReply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post



            > Messages in this topic (4)



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