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  • jbd_29349
    Ave Citizens! I hope that I am not out of line by starting a topic to just introduce myself. My name is Joshua Davis I live in Spartanburg, South Carolina. I
    Message 1 of 19 , Dec 2, 2009
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      Ave Citizens!

      I hope that I am not out of line by starting a topic to just introduce myself. My name is Joshua Davis I live in Spartanburg, South Carolina. I am a member and the Optio of Legio VI FFC based out of Charleston, South Carolina.

      I found this site going through some websites I haven't been to in a while and I am glad I did. I have been biten by the cooking bug here recently and being a Roman re-enactor I would like to try authentic Roman dishes.

      My first question is this: where can I find a good Roman cookbook. Now my definition of a good Roman cookbook is this, will give you substitutes for things that you can't find in even a "fancy" grocery store. Also written by someone that has reproduced these dishes and has applied modern cooking techniques and or terms. This one is a bonus but not really necessary, dates for when these dishes were common/created.

      Joshua Davis
      aka
      Marivs Minivs Donatvs
      Optio Centvriae
      Legio VI FFC, Cohors I
    • coivinix
      COIVINIX DONATO SAL P D Welcome! While the group seems a bit moribund at present, there s much in the archives to keep you going until the chatter starts up
      Message 2 of 19 , Dec 3, 2009
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        COIVINIX DONATO SAL P D
        Welcome! While the group seems a bit moribund at present, there's much in the archives to keep you going until the chatter starts up again.

        I'm sure everyone will have their own favorites, but here are the ones_I_would direct you to:

        First and foremost, the admirable "practical" end of our fellow-listmate Sally Grainger's new translation of APICIVS (done with her husband, Christopher Groocock) COOKING APICIVS:

        <http://www.amazon.com/Cooking-Apicius-Roman-Recipes-Today/dp/1903018447/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1259856283&sr=1-1>

        This is excellent scholarship yoked to practical cookery and intelligent supposition. You will not do better--the only problem is that it is SO SHORT. But perhaps Sally will find time to enlarge :>)

        You can buy both books together at a special price from the importer here:

        <http://www.oxbowbooks.com/bookinfo.cfm/ID/61510>

        An earlier effort (with another listmate, Andrew Dalby) is THE CLASSICAL COOKBOOK:

        <http://www.amazon.com/Classical-Cookbook-Andrew-Dalby/dp/071412222X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1259856244&sr=1-1>

        Although it's aging, there is still much to like in Ilaria Gozzini Giacosa's A TASTE OF ANCIENT ROME:

        <http://www.amazon.com/Taste-Ancient-Ilaria-Gozzini-Giacosa/dp/0226290328/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1259856141&sr=8-1>

        And then there's Mark Grant's ROMAN COOKERY; a strong point of this one is that it concentrates on more "every-day" food; a somewhat weaker point is that, while the author is a very serious scholar....the redactions he provides are a bit idiosyncratic at times and (which is perhaps exactly what you are looking for?) slanted to modern ease, rather than historical accuracy. But--read with care--there is much here that is not covered elsewhere:

        <http://www.amazon.com/Roman-Cookery-Ancient-Recipes-Kitchens/dp/1897959605/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b>

        Hopefully you'll find something here which will suit you exactly. In the best of all worlds, you'll eventually have them all on your bookshelf.

        BONA FORTVNA

        COIVINIX

        --- In Apicius@yahoogroups.com, "jbd_29349" <goliathrix@...> wrote:
        >
        > Ave Citizens!
        >
        > I hope that I am not out of line by starting a topic to just introduce myself. My name is Joshua Davis I live in Spartanburg, South Carolina. I am a member and the Optio of Legio VI FFC based out of Charleston, South Carolina.
        >
        > I found this site going through some websites I haven't been to in a while and I am glad I did. I have been biten by the cooking bug here recently and being a Roman re-enactor I would like to try authentic Roman dishes.
        >
        > My first question is this: where can I find a good Roman cookbook. Now my definition of a good Roman cookbook is this, will give you substitutes for things that you can't find in even a "fancy" grocery store. Also written by someone that has reproduced these dishes and has applied modern cooking techniques and or terms. This one is a bonus but not really necessary, dates for when these dishes were common/created.
        >
        > Joshua Davis
        > aka
        > Marivs Minivs Donatvs
        > Optio Centvriae
        > Legio VI FFC, Cohors I
        >
      • goliathrix@hotmail.com
        Thank you for the reply! I am looking for historical accuracy just a book that is an easy read. The few Roman cookbooks that I have looked over some of the
        Message 3 of 19 , Dec 3, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          Thank you for the reply! I am looking for historical accuracy just a book that is an easy read. The few Roman cookbooks that I have looked over some of the ingredients have been things that you can't find in civilized grocery stores.

          Joshua

          Optio
          Legio VI F
          Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

          -----Original Message-----
          From: "coivinix" <pncmcdermott@...>
          Date: Thu, 03 Dec 2009 16:08:03
          To: <Apicius@yahoogroups.com>
          Subject: [Apicius] First Roman Cookbooks to Purchase?

          COIVINIX DONATO SAL P D
          Welcome! While the group seems a bit moribund at present, there's much in the archives to keep you going until the chatter starts up again.

          I'm sure everyone will have their own favorites, but here are the ones_I_would direct you to:

          First and foremost, the admirable "practical" end of our fellow-listmate Sally Grainger's new translation of APICIVS (done with her husband, Christopher Groocock) COOKING APICIVS:

          <http://www.amazon.com/Cooking-Apicius-Roman-Recipes-Today/dp/1903018447/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1259856283&sr=1-1>

          This is excellent scholarship yoked to practical cookery and intelligent supposition. You will not do better--the only problem is that it is SO SHORT. But perhaps Sally will find time to enlarge :>)

          You can buy both books together at a special price from the importer here:

          <http://www.oxbowbooks.com/bookinfo.cfm/ID/61510>

          An earlier effort (with another listmate, Andrew Dalby) is THE CLASSICAL COOKBOOK:

          <http://www.amazon.com/Classical-Cookbook-Andrew-Dalby/dp/071412222X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1259856244&sr=1-1>

          Although it's aging, there is still much to like in Ilaria Gozzini Giacosa's A TASTE OF ANCIENT ROME:

          <http://www.amazon.com/Taste-Ancient-Ilaria-Gozzini-Giacosa/dp/0226290328/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1259856141&sr=8-1>

          And then there's Mark Grant's ROMAN COOKERY; a strong point of this one is that it concentrates on more "every-day" food; a somewhat weaker point is that, while the author is a very serious scholar....the redactions he provides are a bit idiosyncratic at times and (which is perhaps exactly what you are looking for?) slanted to modern ease, rather than historical accuracy. But--read with care--there is much here that is not covered elsewhere:

          <http://www.amazon.com/Roman-Cookery-Ancient-Recipes-Kitchens/dp/1897959605/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b>

          Hopefully you'll find something here which will suit you exactly. In the best of all worlds, you'll eventually have them all on your bookshelf.

          BONA FORTVNA

          COIVINIX

          --- In Apicius@yahoogroups.com, "jbd_29349" <goliathrix@...> wrote:
          >
          > Ave Citizens!
          >
          > I hope that I am not out of line by starting a topic to just introduce myself. My name is Joshua Davis I live in Spartanburg, South Carolina. I am a member and the Optio of Legio VI FFC based out of Charleston, South Carolina.
          >
          > I found this site going through some websites I haven't been to in a while and I am glad I did. I have been biten by the cooking bug here recently and being a Roman re-enactor I would like to try authentic Roman dishes.
          >
          > My first question is this: where can I find a good Roman cookbook. Now my definition of a good Roman cookbook is this, will give you substitutes for things that you can't find in even a "fancy" grocery store. Also written by someone that has reproduced these dishes and has applied modern cooking techniques and or terms. This one is a bonus but not really necessary, dates for when these dishes were common/created.
          >
          > Joshua Davis
          > aka
          > Marivs Minivs Donatvs
          > Optio Centvriae
          > Legio VI FFC, Cohors I
          >





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • lilinah@earthlink.net
          ... Did you mean you are *not* looking for historical accuracy? ... What ingredients are those? I prepared a 26 dish (Greco)Roman feast a few years ago and had
          Message 4 of 19 , Dec 3, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            Joshua/Optio wrote:
            >I am looking for historical accuracy just a book that is an easy read.

            Did you mean you are *not* looking for historical accuracy?

            >The few Roman cookbooks that I have looked over some of the
            >ingredients have been things that you can't find in civilized
            >grocery stores.

            What ingredients are those?

            I prepared a 26 dish (Greco)Roman feast a few years ago and had
            little trouble finding ingredients. I believe i live in a civilized
            location...
            --
            Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
            the persona formerly known as Anahita

            who is writing another reply on cookbooks
          • Susan Weingarten
            I would add to the books already suggested: Cathy Kaufman Cooking in ancient civilizations (Greenwood Press 2006) this was written as a school textbook (some
            Message 5 of 19 , Dec 3, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              I would add to the books already suggested:
              Cathy Kaufman Cooking in ancient civilizations (Greenwood Press 2006)

              this was written as a school textbook (some kids are very lucky) so has excellent explanations, and includes recipes from ancient Mesopotamia and Egypt as well as Greece and Rome. The author is a chef and culinary historian. Some of her recipes are based on Apicius etc while others are reconstructions of her own, but she always distinguishes between them.

              Susan Weingarten
              Tel Aviv

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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Lucia Clark
              Oooooh.. Roman stores were also civilized.. In any case, any supermarket has most of the ingredients you need. As for spices, if you do not find them in a well
              Message 6 of 19 , Dec 3, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                Oooooh.. Roman stores were also civilized.. In any case, any supermarket has
                most of the ingredients you need. As for spices, if you do not find them in
                a well stocked supermarket you will find them in middle-eastern or Indian
                specialty stores (also very civilized). Unusual grains like farro you can
                find in Italian specialty stores. Let's not forget the internet, you can
                order quite a few things online. A couple of spices you will have to grow
                yourself, like rue and lovage, or find substitutions. A good substitution
                for garum is anchovy paste. Or. Like Apicius himself said, just add or omit
                according to your taste. Justinus will be able to pin point the exact quote
                and give to you in Latin.

                Lucia

                _____

                From: Apicius@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Apicius@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                goliathrix@...
                Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 12:15 PM
                To: Apicius@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [Apicius] First Roman Cookbooks to Purchase?





                Thank you for the reply! I am looking for historical accuracy just a book
                that is an easy read. The few Roman cookbooks that I have looked over some
                of the ingredients have been things that you can't find in civilized grocery
                stores.

                Joshua

                Optio
                Legio VI F
                Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

                -----Original Message-----
                From: "coivinix" <pncmcdermott@ <mailto:pncmcdermott%40comcast.net>
                comcast.net>
                Date: Thu, 03 Dec 2009 16:08:03
                To: <Apicius@yahoogroups <mailto:Apicius%40yahoogroups.com> .com>
                Subject: [Apicius] First Roman Cookbooks to Purchase?

                COIVINIX DONATO SAL P D
                Welcome! While the group seems a bit moribund at present, there's much in
                the archives to keep you going until the chatter starts up again.

                I'm sure everyone will have their own favorites, but here are the
                ones_I_would direct you to:

                First and foremost, the admirable "practical" end of our fellow-listmate
                Sally Grainger's new translation of APICIVS (done with her husband,
                Christopher Groocock) COOKING APICIVS:

                <http://www.amazon
                <http://www.amazon.com/Cooking-Apicius-Roman-Recipes-Today/dp/1903018447/ref
                =sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1259856283&sr=1-1>
                com/Cooking-Apicius-Roman-Recipes-Today/dp/1903018447/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=b
                ooks&qid=1259856283&sr=1-1>

                This is excellent scholarship yoked to practical cookery and intelligent
                supposition. You will not do better--the only problem is that it is SO
                SHORT. But perhaps Sally will find time to enlarge :>)

                You can buy both books together at a special price from the importer here:

                <http://www.oxbowboo <http://www.oxbowbooks.com/bookinfo.cfm/ID/61510>
                ks.com/bookinfo.cfm/ID/61510>

                An earlier effort (with another listmate, Andrew Dalby) is THE CLASSICAL
                COOKBOOK:

                <http://www.amazon
                <http://www.amazon.com/Classical-Cookbook-Andrew-Dalby/dp/071412222X/ref=sr_
                1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1259856244&sr=1-1>
                com/Classical-Cookbook-Andrew-Dalby/dp/071412222X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books
                &qid=1259856244&sr=1-1>

                Although it's aging, there is still much to like in Ilaria Gozzini Giacosa's
                A TASTE OF ANCIENT ROME:

                <http://www.amazon
                <http://www.amazon.com/Taste-Ancient-Ilaria-Gozzini-Giacosa/dp/0226290328/re
                f=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1259856141&sr=8-1>
                com/Taste-Ancient-Ilaria-Gozzini-Giacosa/dp/0226290328/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=
                books&qid=1259856141&sr=8-1>

                And then there's Mark Grant's ROMAN COOKERY; a strong point of this one is
                that it concentrates on more "every-day" food; a somewhat weaker point is
                that, while the author is a very serious scholar....the redactions he
                provides are a bit idiosyncratic at times and (which is perhaps exactly what
                you are looking for?) slanted to modern ease, rather than historical
                accuracy. But--read with care--there is much here that is not covered
                elsewhere:

                <http://www.amazon
                <http://www.amazon.com/Roman-Cookery-Ancient-Recipes-Kitchens/dp/1897959605/
                ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b>
                com/Roman-Cookery-Ancient-Recipes-Kitchens/dp/1897959605/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b
                >

                Hopefully you'll find something here which will suit you exactly. In the
                best of all worlds, you'll eventually have them all on your bookshelf.

                BONA FORTVNA

                COIVINIX

                --- In Apicius@yahoogroups <mailto:Apicius%40yahoogroups.com> .com,
                "jbd_29349" <goliathrix@...> wrote:
                >
                > Ave Citizens!
                >
                > I hope that I am not out of line by starting a topic to just introduce
                myself. My name is Joshua Davis I live in Spartanburg, South Carolina. I am
                a member and the Optio of Legio VI FFC based out of Charleston, South
                Carolina.
                >
                > I found this site going through some websites I haven't been to in a while
                and I am glad I did. I have been biten by the cooking bug here recently and
                being a Roman re-enactor I would like to try authentic Roman dishes.
                >
                > My first question is this: where can I find a good Roman cookbook. Now my
                definition of a good Roman cookbook is this, will give you substitutes for
                things that you can't find in even a "fancy" grocery store. Also written by
                someone that has reproduced these dishes and has applied modern cooking
                techniques and or terms. This one is a bonus but not really necessary, dates
                for when these dishes were common/created.
                >
                > Joshua Davis
                > aka
                > Marivs Minivs Donatvs
                > Optio Centvriae
                > Legio VI FFC, Cohors I
                >




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • goliathrix@hotmail.com
                I am looking for historical accuracy! I forget what the ingredients were. It was a long time ago. Joshua Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ... From:
                Message 7 of 19 , Dec 3, 2009
                • 0 Attachment
                  I am looking for historical accuracy! I forget what the ingredients were. It was a long time ago.

                  Joshua
                  Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: lilinah@...
                  Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 09:22:04
                  To: <Apicius@yahoogroups.com>
                  Subject: Re: [Apicius] First Roman Cookbooks to Purchase?

                  Joshua/Optio wrote:
                  >I am looking for historical accuracy just a book that is an easy read.

                  Did you mean you are *not* looking for historical accuracy?

                  >The few Roman cookbooks that I have looked over some of the
                  >ingredients have been things that you can't find in civilized
                  >grocery stores.

                  What ingredients are those?

                  I prepared a 26 dish (Greco)Roman feast a few years ago and had
                  little trouble finding ingredients. I believe i live in a civilized
                  location...
                  --
                  Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
                  the persona formerly known as Anahita

                  who is writing another reply on cookbooks



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • goliathrix@hotmail.com
                  Cool man thanks! I also do a germanic impression so spices I have to cross the rhine and put a dress on to get them, you know do the whole civilized thing. I
                  Message 8 of 19 , Dec 3, 2009
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Cool man thanks! I also do a germanic impression so spices I have to cross the rhine and put a dress on to get them, you know do the whole civilized thing.

                    I do admit that some of the ingredients I didn't recognize mainly because I don't cook. Also, I know that I can substitute some things but with a lack of culinary knowledge I am hesitate to do so.

                    Joshua
                    Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: "Lucia Clark" <luciaclark@...>
                    Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 12:49:16
                    To: <Apicius@yahoogroups.com>
                    Subject: RE: [Apicius] First Roman Cookbooks to Purchase?

                    Oooooh.. Roman stores were also civilized.. In any case, any supermarket has
                    most of the ingredients you need. As for spices, if you do not find them in
                    a well stocked supermarket you will find them in middle-eastern or Indian
                    specialty stores (also very civilized). Unusual grains like farro you can
                    find in Italian specialty stores. Let's not forget the internet, you can
                    order quite a few things online. A couple of spices you will have to grow
                    yourself, like rue and lovage, or find substitutions. A good substitution
                    for garum is anchovy paste. Or. Like Apicius himself said, just add or omit
                    according to your taste. Justinus will be able to pin point the exact quote
                    and give to you in Latin.

                    Lucia

                    _____

                    From: Apicius@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Apicius@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                    goliathrix@...
                    Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 12:15 PM
                    To: Apicius@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [Apicius] First Roman Cookbooks to Purchase?





                    Thank you for the reply! I am looking for historical accuracy just a book
                    that is an easy read. The few Roman cookbooks that I have looked over some
                    of the ingredients have been things that you can't find in civilized grocery
                    stores.

                    Joshua

                    Optio
                    Legio VI F
                    Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: "coivinix" <pncmcdermott@ <mailto:pncmcdermott%40comcast.net>
                    comcast.net>
                    Date: Thu, 03 Dec 2009 16:08:03
                    To: <Apicius@yahoogroups <mailto:Apicius%40yahoogroups.com> .com>
                    Subject: [Apicius] First Roman Cookbooks to Purchase?

                    COIVINIX DONATO SAL P D
                    Welcome! While the group seems a bit moribund at present, there's much in
                    the archives to keep you going until the chatter starts up again.

                    I'm sure everyone will have their own favorites, but here are the
                    ones_I_would direct you to:

                    First and foremost, the admirable "practical" end of our fellow-listmate
                    Sally Grainger's new translation of APICIVS (done with her husband,
                    Christopher Groocock) COOKING APICIVS:

                    <http://www.amazon
                    <http://www.amazon.com/Cooking-Apicius-Roman-Recipes-Today/dp/1903018447/ref
                    =sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1259856283&sr=1-1>
                    com/Cooking-Apicius-Roman-Recipes-Today/dp/1903018447/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=b
                    ooks&qid=1259856283&sr=1-1>

                    This is excellent scholarship yoked to practical cookery and intelligent
                    supposition. You will not do better--the only problem is that it is SO
                    SHORT. But perhaps Sally will find time to enlarge :>)

                    You can buy both books together at a special price from the importer here:

                    <http://www.oxbowboo <http://www.oxbowbooks.com/bookinfo.cfm/ID/61510>
                    ks.com/bookinfo.cfm/ID/61510>

                    An earlier effort (with another listmate, Andrew Dalby) is THE CLASSICAL
                    COOKBOOK:

                    <http://www.amazon
                    <http://www.amazon.com/Classical-Cookbook-Andrew-Dalby/dp/071412222X/ref=sr_
                    1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1259856244&sr=1-1>
                    com/Classical-Cookbook-Andrew-Dalby/dp/071412222X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books
                    &qid=1259856244&sr=1-1>

                    Although it's aging, there is still much to like in Ilaria Gozzini Giacosa's
                    A TASTE OF ANCIENT ROME:

                    <http://www.amazon
                    <http://www.amazon.com/Taste-Ancient-Ilaria-Gozzini-Giacosa/dp/0226290328/re
                    f=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1259856141&sr=8-1>
                    com/Taste-Ancient-Ilaria-Gozzini-Giacosa/dp/0226290328/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=
                    books&qid=1259856141&sr=8-1>

                    And then there's Mark Grant's ROMAN COOKERY; a strong point of this one is
                    that it concentrates on more "every-day" food; a somewhat weaker point is
                    that, while the author is a very serious scholar....the redactions he
                    provides are a bit idiosyncratic at times and (which is perhaps exactly what
                    you are looking for?) slanted to modern ease, rather than historical
                    accuracy. But--read with care--there is much here that is not covered
                    elsewhere:

                    <http://www.amazon
                    <http://www.amazon.com/Roman-Cookery-Ancient-Recipes-Kitchens/dp/1897959605/
                    ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b>
                    com/Roman-Cookery-Ancient-Recipes-Kitchens/dp/1897959605/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b
                    >

                    Hopefully you'll find something here which will suit you exactly. In the
                    best of all worlds, you'll eventually have them all on your bookshelf.

                    BONA FORTVNA

                    COIVINIX

                    --- In Apicius@yahoogroups <mailto:Apicius%40yahoogroups.com> .com,
                    "jbd_29349" <goliathrix@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Ave Citizens!
                    >
                    > I hope that I am not out of line by starting a topic to just introduce
                    myself. My name is Joshua Davis I live in Spartanburg, South Carolina. I am
                    a member and the Optio of Legio VI FFC based out of Charleston, South
                    Carolina.
                    >
                    > I found this site going through some websites I haven't been to in a while
                    and I am glad I did. I have been biten by the cooking bug here recently and
                    being a Roman re-enactor I would like to try authentic Roman dishes.
                    >
                    > My first question is this: where can I find a good Roman cookbook. Now my
                    definition of a good Roman cookbook is this, will give you substitutes for
                    things that you can't find in even a "fancy" grocery store. Also written by
                    someone that has reproduced these dishes and has applied modern cooking
                    techniques and or terms. This one is a bonus but not really necessary, dates
                    for when these dishes were common/created.
                    >
                    > Joshua Davis
                    > aka
                    > Marivs Minivs Donatvs
                    > Optio Centvriae
                    > Legio VI FFC, Cohors I
                    >




                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Freydis the Good
                    Oh, Oh, OH!!! I ve got a source for Lovage and it is quite INEXPENSIVE!!! http://www.mountainroseherbs.com/ A 1 POUND bag of dried lovage leaf today is $17
                    Message 9 of 19 , Dec 3, 2009
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Oh, Oh, OH!!! I've got a source for Lovage and it is quite INEXPENSIVE!!!

                      http://www.mountainroseherbs.com/

                      A 1 POUND bag of dried lovage leaf today is $17 USD. 1 Pound of the root is
                      $12 USD.

                      SMILES!!
                      Freydis

                      On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 10:49 AM, Lucia Clark <luciaclark@...>wrote:

                      >
                      >
                      > Oooooh.. Roman stores were also civilized.. In any case, any supermarket
                      > has
                      > most of the ingredients you need. As for spices, if you do not find them in
                      > a well stocked supermarket you will find them in middle-eastern or Indian
                      > specialty stores (also very civilized). Unusual grains like farro you can
                      > find in Italian specialty stores. Let's not forget the internet, you can
                      > order quite a few things online. A couple of spices you will have to grow
                      > yourself, like rue and lovage, or find substitutions. A good substitution
                      > for garum is anchovy paste. Or. Like Apicius himself said, just add or omit
                      > according to your taste. Justinus will be able to pin point the exact quote
                      > and give to you in Latin.
                      >
                      > Lucia
                      >
                      > _____
                      >
                      > From: Apicius@yahoogroups.com <Apicius%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:
                      > Apicius@yahoogroups.com <Apicius%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of
                      > goliathrix@... <goliathrix%40hotmail.com>
                      > Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 12:15 PM
                      > To: Apicius@yahoogroups.com <Apicius%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > Subject: Re: [Apicius] First Roman Cookbooks to Purchase?
                      >
                      > Thank you for the reply! I am looking for historical accuracy just a book
                      > that is an easy read. The few Roman cookbooks that I have looked over some
                      > of the ingredients have been things that you can't find in civilized
                      > grocery
                      > stores.
                      >
                      > Joshua
                      >
                      > Optio
                      > Legio VI F
                      > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: "coivinix" <pncmcdermott@ <mailto:pncmcdermott%40comcast.net<pncmcdermott%2540comcast.net>
                      > >
                      > comcast.net>
                      > Date: Thu, 03 Dec 2009 16:08:03
                      > To: <Apicius@yahoogroups <mailto:Apicius%40yahoogroups.com<Apicius%2540yahoogroups.com>>
                      > .com>
                      > Subject: [Apicius] First Roman Cookbooks to Purchase?
                      >
                      > COIVINIX DONATO SAL P D
                      > Welcome! While the group seems a bit moribund at present, there's much in
                      > the archives to keep you going until the chatter starts up again.
                      >
                      > I'm sure everyone will have their own favorites, but here are the
                      > ones_I_would direct you to:
                      >
                      > First and foremost, the admirable "practical" end of our fellow-listmate
                      > Sally Grainger's new translation of APICIVS (done with her husband,
                      > Christopher Groocock) COOKING APICIVS:
                      >
                      > <http://www.amazon
                      > <
                      > http://www.amazon.com/Cooking-Apicius-Roman-Recipes-Today/dp/1903018447/ref
                      > =sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1259856283&sr=1-1>
                      >
                      > com/Cooking-Apicius-Roman-Recipes-Today/dp/1903018447/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=b
                      > ooks&qid=1259856283&sr=1-1>
                      >
                      > This is excellent scholarship yoked to practical cookery and intelligent
                      > supposition. You will not do better--the only problem is that it is SO
                      > SHORT. But perhaps Sally will find time to enlarge :>)
                      >
                      > You can buy both books together at a special price from the importer here:
                      >
                      > <http://www.oxbowboo <http://www.oxbowbooks.com/bookinfo.cfm/ID/61510>
                      > ks.com/bookinfo.cfm/ID/61510>
                      >
                      > An earlier effort (with another listmate, Andrew Dalby) is THE CLASSICAL
                      > COOKBOOK:
                      >
                      > <http://www.amazon
                      > <
                      > http://www.amazon.com/Classical-Cookbook-Andrew-Dalby/dp/071412222X/ref=sr_
                      > 1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1259856244&sr=1-1>
                      >
                      > com/Classical-Cookbook-Andrew-Dalby/dp/071412222X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books
                      > &qid=1259856244&sr=1-1>
                      >
                      > Although it's aging, there is still much to like in Ilaria Gozzini
                      > Giacosa's
                      > A TASTE OF ANCIENT ROME:
                      >
                      > <http://www.amazon
                      > <
                      > http://www.amazon.com/Taste-Ancient-Ilaria-Gozzini-Giacosa/dp/0226290328/re
                      > f=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1259856141&sr=8-1>
                      >
                      > com/Taste-Ancient-Ilaria-Gozzini-Giacosa/dp/0226290328/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=
                      > books&qid=1259856141&sr=8-1>
                      >
                      > And then there's Mark Grant's ROMAN COOKERY; a strong point of this one is
                      > that it concentrates on more "every-day" food; a somewhat weaker point is
                      > that, while the author is a very serious scholar....the redactions he
                      > provides are a bit idiosyncratic at times and (which is perhaps exactly
                      > what
                      > you are looking for?) slanted to modern ease, rather than historical
                      > accuracy. But--read with care--there is much here that is not covered
                      > elsewhere:
                      >
                      > <http://www.amazon
                      > <
                      > http://www.amazon.com/Roman-Cookery-Ancient-Recipes-Kitchens/dp/1897959605/
                      > ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b>
                      >
                      > com/Roman-Cookery-Ancient-Recipes-Kitchens/dp/1897959605/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b
                      > >
                      >
                      > Hopefully you'll find something here which will suit you exactly. In the
                      > best of all worlds, you'll eventually have them all on your bookshelf.
                      >
                      > BONA FORTVNA
                      >
                      > COIVINIX
                      >
                      > --- In Apicius@yahoogroups <mailto:Apicius%40yahoogroups.com<Apicius%2540yahoogroups.com>>
                      > .com,
                      > "jbd_29349" <goliathrix@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Ave Citizens!
                      > >
                      > > I hope that I am not out of line by starting a topic to just introduce
                      > myself. My name is Joshua Davis I live in Spartanburg, South Carolina. I am
                      > a member and the Optio of Legio VI FFC based out of Charleston, South
                      > Carolina.
                      > >
                      > > I found this site going through some websites I haven't been to in a
                      > while
                      > and I am glad I did. I have been biten by the cooking bug here recently and
                      > being a Roman re-enactor I would like to try authentic Roman dishes.
                      > >
                      > > My first question is this: where can I find a good Roman cookbook. Now my
                      > definition of a good Roman cookbook is this, will give you substitutes for
                      > things that you can't find in even a "fancy" grocery store. Also written by
                      > someone that has reproduced these dishes and has applied modern cooking
                      > techniques and or terms. This one is a bonus but not really necessary,
                      > dates
                      > for when these dishes were common/created.
                      > >
                      > > Joshua Davis
                      > > aka
                      > > Marivs Minivs Donatvs
                      > > Optio Centvriae
                      > > Legio VI FFC, Cohors I
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • lilinah@earthlink.net
                      ... Since i prefer to work up recipes myself, i m more interested in: Christopher Grocock & Sally Grainger Apicius: A critical edition with an introduction
                      Message 10 of 19 , Dec 3, 2009
                      • 0 Attachment
                        "jbd_29349" <goliathrix@...> wrote:
                        > My first question is this: where can I find a good Roman cookbook.
                        >Now my definition of a good Roman cookbook is this, will give you
                        >substitutes for things that you can't find in even a "fancy" grocery
                        >store. Also written by someone that has reproduced these dishes and
                        >has applied modern cooking techniques and or terms. This one is a
                        >bonus but not really necessary, dates for when these dishes were
                        >common/created.

                        COIVINIX replied:
                        >First and foremost, the admirable "practical" end of our
                        >fellow-listmate Sally Grainger's new translation of APICIVS (done
                        >with her husband, Christopher Groocock) COOKING APICIVS:
                        >
                        >This is excellent scholarship yoked to practical cookery and
                        >intelligent supposition. You will not do better--the only problem is
                        >that it is SO SHORT. But perhaps Sally will find time to enlarge :>)

                        Since i prefer to work up recipes myself, i'm more interested in:
                        Christopher Grocock & Sally Grainger
                        "Apicius: A critical edition with an introduction and an English translation"
                        Prospect Books : Totnes, 2006.
                        (includes the Latin)

                        I also own Grainger's smaller booklet which has much useful info on
                        her experiments in making garum/liquamen, and other ingredients. I
                        bought both together for the special price.

                        >An earlier effort (with another listmate, Andrew Dalby) is THE
                        >CLASSICAL COOKBOOK:

                        This is nice because of the historical information on the cultures
                        and the photos of food oriented art, as well as the recipes.

                        >Although it's aging, there is still much to like in Ilaria Gozzini
                        >Giacosa's A TASTE OF ANCIENT ROME:

                        A useful book for the culinarily cautious

                        >And then there's Mark Grant's ROMAN COOKERY; a strong point of this
                        >one is that it concentrates on more "every-day" food; a somewhat
                        >weaker point is that, while the author is a very serious
                        >scholar....the redactions he provides are a bit idiosyncratic at
                        >times and (which is perhaps exactly what you are looking for?)
                        >slanted to modern ease, rather than historical accuracy. But--read
                        >with care--there is much here that is not covered elsewhere:

                        It's interesting/useful because of Grant's non-Apician orientation.

                        To sum up:

                        A. FULL TRANSLATION OF THE APICIAN COOKBOOK

                        1.) The most recent and currently best translation of the Apician cookbook:
                        Christopher Grocock & Sally Grainger
                        "Apicius: A critical edition with an introduction and an English translation"
                        Prospect Books : Totnes, 2006.
                        (includes the Latin)

                        2.) The classic translation of the Apician cookbook before Grocock:
                        Anonymous. Translated by Barbara Flower & Elizabeth Rosenbaum.
                        "The Roman Cookery Book: a critical translation of The Art of Cooking by
                        Apicius"
                        Peter Nevill, Ltd, London & New York, and George G. Harrap & Co.,
                        Ltd., London : 1958.
                        (includes the Latin)

                        B. FOR BEGINNERS (in publication order)

                        1.) Sally Grainger
                        Cooking Apicius: Roman Recipes for Today
                        Prospect Books : Totnes, 2006.

                        2.) Andrew Dalby and Sally Grainger.
                        "The Classical Cookbook".
                        British Museum Press, London: revised edition 2000.

                        3.) Ilaria Gozzini Giacosa. Translated by Anna Herklotz.
                        "A Taste of Ancient Rome"
                        University of Chicago Press, Chicago and London: 1992.

                        C. USEFUL BECAUSE IT IS *NOT* APICIAN:

                        Grant, Mark.
                        "Roman Cookery: Ancient Recipes for Modern Kitchens"
                        Serif: London: 1999.

                        D. OF INTEREST BUT NOT ESSENTIAL:

                        Patrick Faas. Translated by Shaun Whiteside.
                        "Around the Roman Table: Food and Feasting in Ancient Rome"
                        Palgrave Macmillan, New York and Hampshire UK: 1994, 2003.

                        Faas utterly rejected as too strange a dish that was extremely
                        popular at my feast, peaches with cumin and fish sauce. It was very
                        delicious.

                        E. NOT COOKBOOKS : but quite informative about food in culture:
                        1.) Andrew Dalby.
                        "Siren Feasts, A History of Food and Gastronomy in Greece"
                        Routledge, London & New York: 1996.

                        2.) Andrew Dalby.
                        "Empire of Pleasures, Luxury and Indulgence in the Roman World".
                        Routledge, London & New York: 2000.

                        3.) A book i haven't seen, but recommended by a friend:
                        Emily Gowers.
                        "The Loaded Table: Representations of Food in Roman Literature"
                        Oxford University Press, Oxford & New York, 1997.
                        My friend wrote:
                        > This is more gastronomy and not cookery. It doesn't have recipes.

                        TO AVOID
                        1.) A book to avoid at all costs is the cheap and easy to find but
                        highly inaccurate
                        Joseph Dommers Vehling
                        "Cookery and Dining in Imperial Rome"
                        Dover reprint, 1977, originally published 1936.
                        Vehling used incomplete and inaccurate Latin editions, was not truly
                        knowledgeable in Latin, and included many ingredients in his versions
                        that were unknown in Europe before the 16th century CE. such as
                        kidney beans and green/bell peppers.

                        2.) I also do not like:
                        John Edwards
                        "The Roman Cookery of Apicius"
                        Hartley and Marks : New York & Vancouver, 1984.
                        I bought it for $1.99, which it may have been worth, just so i could
                        have it for discussions... It isn't a full translation of Apicius,
                        but has many translated recipes, some adapted to the modern kitchen
                        with some unsupportable substitutions, such as butter for oil, and
                        rosemary for rue, and canned salmon for liquamen!

                        ===

                        I am sorry, but i am not familiar with other translations not
                        published in English.
                        --
                        Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
                        the persona formerly known as Anahita
                      • lilinah@earthlink.net
                        Joshua / Optio, where are you located in the modern world? Listees here are on several continents and no doubt some can point you to good sources for unusual
                        Message 11 of 19 , Dec 3, 2009
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Joshua / Optio, where are you located in the modern world? Listees
                          here are on several continents and no doubt some can point you to
                          good sources for unusual ingredients.
                          --
                          Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
                          the persona formerly known as Anahita
                        • Lucia Clark
                          Excellent! Thank you for the bibliography. My only reserve about Grant is that he uses rosemary, and about Giocosa is that she does not give the source of the
                          Message 12 of 19 , Dec 3, 2009
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Excellent! Thank you for the bibliography. My only reserve about Grant is
                            that he uses rosemary, and about Giocosa is that she does not give the
                            source of the recipe in which she uses basil.

                            Lucia



                            _____

                            From: Apicius@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Apicius@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                            lilinah@...
                            Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 2:08 PM
                            To: Apicius@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [Apicius] First Roman Cookbooks to Purchase?





                            "jbd_29349" <goliathrix@...> wrote:
                            > My first question is this: where can I find a good Roman cookbook.
                            >Now my definition of a good Roman cookbook is this, will give you
                            >substitutes for things that you can't find in even a "fancy" grocery
                            >store. Also written by someone that has reproduced these dishes and
                            >has applied modern cooking techniques and or terms. This one is a
                            >bonus but not really necessary, dates for when these dishes were
                            >common/created.

                            COIVINIX replied:
                            >First and foremost, the admirable "practical" end of our
                            >fellow-listmate Sally Grainger's new translation of APICIVS (done
                            >with her husband, Christopher Groocock) COOKING APICIVS:
                            >
                            >This is excellent scholarship yoked to practical cookery and
                            >intelligent supposition. You will not do better--the only problem is
                            >that it is SO SHORT. But perhaps Sally will find time to enlarge :>)

                            Since i prefer to work up recipes myself, i'm more interested in:
                            Christopher Grocock & Sally Grainger
                            "Apicius: A critical edition with an introduction and an English
                            translation"
                            Prospect Books : Totnes, 2006.
                            (includes the Latin)

                            I also own Grainger's smaller booklet which has much useful info on
                            her experiments in making garum/liquamen, and other ingredients. I
                            bought both together for the special price.

                            >An earlier effort (with another listmate, Andrew Dalby) is THE
                            >CLASSICAL COOKBOOK:

                            This is nice because of the historical information on the cultures
                            and the photos of food oriented art, as well as the recipes.

                            >Although it's aging, there is still much to like in Ilaria Gozzini
                            >Giacosa's A TASTE OF ANCIENT ROME:

                            A useful book for the culinarily cautious

                            >And then there's Mark Grant's ROMAN COOKERY; a strong point of this
                            >one is that it concentrates on more "every-day" food; a somewhat
                            >weaker point is that, while the author is a very serious
                            >scholar....the redactions he provides are a bit idiosyncratic at
                            >times and (which is perhaps exactly what you are looking for?)
                            >slanted to modern ease, rather than historical accuracy. But--read
                            >with care--there is much here that is not covered elsewhere:

                            It's interesting/useful because of Grant's non-Apician orientation.

                            To sum up:

                            A. FULL TRANSLATION OF THE APICIAN COOKBOOK

                            1.) The most recent and currently best translation of the Apician cookbook:
                            Christopher Grocock & Sally Grainger
                            "Apicius: A critical edition with an introduction and an English
                            translation"
                            Prospect Books : Totnes, 2006.
                            (includes the Latin)

                            2.) The classic translation of the Apician cookbook before Grocock:
                            Anonymous. Translated by Barbara Flower & Elizabeth Rosenbaum.
                            "The Roman Cookery Book: a critical translation of The Art of Cooking by
                            Apicius"
                            Peter Nevill, Ltd, London & New York, and George G. Harrap & Co.,
                            Ltd., London : 1958.
                            (includes the Latin)

                            B. FOR BEGINNERS (in publication order)

                            1.) Sally Grainger
                            Cooking Apicius: Roman Recipes for Today
                            Prospect Books : Totnes, 2006.

                            2.) Andrew Dalby and Sally Grainger.
                            "The Classical Cookbook".
                            British Museum Press, London: revised edition 2000.

                            3.) Ilaria Gozzini Giacosa. Translated by Anna Herklotz.
                            "A Taste of Ancient Rome"
                            University of Chicago Press, Chicago and London: 1992.

                            C. USEFUL BECAUSE IT IS *NOT* APICIAN:

                            Grant, Mark.
                            "Roman Cookery: Ancient Recipes for Modern Kitchens"
                            Serif: London: 1999.

                            D. OF INTEREST BUT NOT ESSENTIAL:

                            Patrick Faas. Translated by Shaun Whiteside.
                            "Around the Roman Table: Food and Feasting in Ancient Rome"
                            Palgrave Macmillan, New York and Hampshire UK: 1994, 2003.

                            Faas utterly rejected as too strange a dish that was extremely
                            popular at my feast, peaches with cumin and fish sauce. It was very
                            delicious.

                            E. NOT COOKBOOKS : but quite informative about food in culture:
                            1.) Andrew Dalby.
                            "Siren Feasts, A History of Food and Gastronomy in Greece"
                            Routledge, London & New York: 1996.

                            2.) Andrew Dalby.
                            "Empire of Pleasures, Luxury and Indulgence in the Roman World".
                            Routledge, London & New York: 2000.

                            3.) A book i haven't seen, but recommended by a friend:
                            Emily Gowers.
                            "The Loaded Table: Representations of Food in Roman Literature"
                            Oxford University Press, Oxford & New York, 1997.
                            My friend wrote:
                            > This is more gastronomy and not cookery. It doesn't have recipes.

                            TO AVOID
                            1.) A book to avoid at all costs is the cheap and easy to find but
                            highly inaccurate
                            Joseph Dommers Vehling
                            "Cookery and Dining in Imperial Rome"
                            Dover reprint, 1977, originally published 1936.
                            Vehling used incomplete and inaccurate Latin editions, was not truly
                            knowledgeable in Latin, and included many ingredients in his versions
                            that were unknown in Europe before the 16th century CE. such as
                            kidney beans and green/bell peppers.

                            2.) I also do not like:
                            John Edwards
                            "The Roman Cookery of Apicius"
                            Hartley and Marks : New York & Vancouver, 1984.
                            I bought it for $1.99, which it may have been worth, just so i could
                            have it for discussions... It isn't a full translation of Apicius,
                            but has many translated recipes, some adapted to the modern kitchen
                            with some unsupportable substitutions, such as butter for oil, and
                            rosemary for rue, and canned salmon for liquamen!

                            ===

                            I am sorry, but i am not familiar with other translations not
                            published in English.
                            --
                            Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
                            the persona formerly known as Anahita





                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Lucia Clark
                            Nice! You are my new best friend Thanks Lucia ... From: Apicius@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Apicius@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Freydis the Good Sent: Thursday,
                            Message 13 of 19 , Dec 3, 2009
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Nice! You are my new best friend
                              Thanks
                              Lucia

                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: Apicius@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Apicius@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                              Freydis the Good
                              Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 1:34 PM
                              To: Apicius@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [Apicius] First Roman Cookbooks to Purchase?

                              Oh, Oh, OH!!! I've got a source for Lovage and it is quite INEXPENSIVE!!!

                              http://www.mountainroseherbs.com/

                              A 1 POUND bag of dried lovage leaf today is $17 USD. 1 Pound of the root is
                              $12 USD.

                              SMILES!!
                              Freydis

                              On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 10:49 AM, Lucia Clark
                              <luciaclark@...>wrote:

                              >
                              >
                              > Oooooh.. Roman stores were also civilized.. In any case, any supermarket
                              > has
                              > most of the ingredients you need. As for spices, if you do not find them
                              in
                              > a well stocked supermarket you will find them in middle-eastern or Indian
                              > specialty stores (also very civilized). Unusual grains like farro you can
                              > find in Italian specialty stores. Let's not forget the internet, you can
                              > order quite a few things online. A couple of spices you will have to grow
                              > yourself, like rue and lovage, or find substitutions. A good substitution
                              > for garum is anchovy paste. Or. Like Apicius himself said, just add or
                              omit
                              > according to your taste. Justinus will be able to pin point the exact
                              quote
                              > and give to you in Latin.
                              >
                              > Lucia
                              >
                              > _____
                              >
                              > From: Apicius@yahoogroups.com <Apicius%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:
                              > Apicius@yahoogroups.com <Apicius%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of
                              > goliathrix@... <goliathrix%40hotmail.com>
                              > Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 12:15 PM
                              > To: Apicius@yahoogroups.com <Apicius%40yahoogroups.com>
                              > Subject: Re: [Apicius] First Roman Cookbooks to Purchase?
                              >
                              > Thank you for the reply! I am looking for historical accuracy just a book
                              > that is an easy read. The few Roman cookbooks that I have looked over some
                              > of the ingredients have been things that you can't find in civilized
                              > grocery
                              > stores.
                              >
                              > Joshua
                              >
                              > Optio
                              > Legio VI F
                              > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
                              >
                              > -----Original Message-----
                              > From: "coivinix" <pncmcdermott@
                              <mailto:pncmcdermott%40comcast.net<pncmcdermott%2540comcast.net>
                              > >
                              > comcast.net>
                              > Date: Thu, 03 Dec 2009 16:08:03
                              > To: <Apicius@yahoogroups
                              <mailto:Apicius%40yahoogroups.com<Apicius%2540yahoogroups.com>>
                              > .com>
                              > Subject: [Apicius] First Roman Cookbooks to Purchase?
                              >
                              > COIVINIX DONATO SAL P D
                              > Welcome! While the group seems a bit moribund at present, there's much in
                              > the archives to keep you going until the chatter starts up again.
                              >
                              > I'm sure everyone will have their own favorites, but here are the
                              > ones_I_would direct you to:
                              >
                              > First and foremost, the admirable "practical" end of our fellow-listmate
                              > Sally Grainger's new translation of APICIVS (done with her husband,
                              > Christopher Groocock) COOKING APICIVS:
                              >
                              > <http://www.amazon
                              > <
                              >
                              http://www.amazon.com/Cooking-Apicius-Roman-Recipes-Today/dp/1903018447/ref
                              > =sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1259856283&sr=1-1>
                              >
                              >
                              com/Cooking-Apicius-Roman-Recipes-Today/dp/1903018447/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=b
                              > ooks&qid=1259856283&sr=1-1>
                              >
                              > This is excellent scholarship yoked to practical cookery and intelligent
                              > supposition. You will not do better--the only problem is that it is SO
                              > SHORT. But perhaps Sally will find time to enlarge :>)
                              >
                              > You can buy both books together at a special price from the importer here:
                              >
                              > <http://www.oxbowboo <http://www.oxbowbooks.com/bookinfo.cfm/ID/61510>
                              > ks.com/bookinfo.cfm/ID/61510>
                              >
                              > An earlier effort (with another listmate, Andrew Dalby) is THE CLASSICAL
                              > COOKBOOK:
                              >
                              > <http://www.amazon
                              > <
                              >
                              http://www.amazon.com/Classical-Cookbook-Andrew-Dalby/dp/071412222X/ref=sr_
                              > 1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1259856244&sr=1-1>
                              >
                              >
                              com/Classical-Cookbook-Andrew-Dalby/dp/071412222X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books
                              > &qid=1259856244&sr=1-1>
                              >
                              > Although it's aging, there is still much to like in Ilaria Gozzini
                              > Giacosa's
                              > A TASTE OF ANCIENT ROME:
                              >
                              > <http://www.amazon
                              > <
                              >
                              http://www.amazon.com/Taste-Ancient-Ilaria-Gozzini-Giacosa/dp/0226290328/re
                              > f=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1259856141&sr=8-1>
                              >
                              >
                              com/Taste-Ancient-Ilaria-Gozzini-Giacosa/dp/0226290328/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=
                              > books&qid=1259856141&sr=8-1>
                              >
                              > And then there's Mark Grant's ROMAN COOKERY; a strong point of this one is
                              > that it concentrates on more "every-day" food; a somewhat weaker point is
                              > that, while the author is a very serious scholar....the redactions he
                              > provides are a bit idiosyncratic at times and (which is perhaps exactly
                              > what
                              > you are looking for?) slanted to modern ease, rather than historical
                              > accuracy. But--read with care--there is much here that is not covered
                              > elsewhere:
                              >
                              > <http://www.amazon
                              > <
                              >
                              http://www.amazon.com/Roman-Cookery-Ancient-Recipes-Kitchens/dp/1897959605/
                              > ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b>
                              >
                              >
                              com/Roman-Cookery-Ancient-Recipes-Kitchens/dp/1897959605/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b
                              > >
                              >
                              > Hopefully you'll find something here which will suit you exactly. In the
                              > best of all worlds, you'll eventually have them all on your bookshelf.
                              >
                              > BONA FORTVNA
                              >
                              > COIVINIX
                              >
                              > --- In Apicius@yahoogroups
                              <mailto:Apicius%40yahoogroups.com<Apicius%2540yahoogroups.com>>
                              > .com,
                              > "jbd_29349" <goliathrix@...> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Ave Citizens!
                              > >
                              > > I hope that I am not out of line by starting a topic to just introduce
                              > myself. My name is Joshua Davis I live in Spartanburg, South Carolina. I
                              am
                              > a member and the Optio of Legio VI FFC based out of Charleston, South
                              > Carolina.
                              > >
                              > > I found this site going through some websites I haven't been to in a
                              > while
                              > and I am glad I did. I have been biten by the cooking bug here recently
                              and
                              > being a Roman re-enactor I would like to try authentic Roman dishes.
                              > >
                              > > My first question is this: where can I find a good Roman cookbook. Now
                              my
                              > definition of a good Roman cookbook is this, will give you substitutes for
                              > things that you can't find in even a "fancy" grocery store. Also written
                              by
                              > someone that has reproduced these dishes and has applied modern cooking
                              > techniques and or terms. This one is a bonus but not really necessary,
                              > dates
                              > for when these dishes were common/created.
                              > >
                              > > Joshua Davis
                              > > aka
                              > > Marivs Minivs Donatvs
                              > > Optio Centvriae
                              > > Legio VI FFC, Cohors I
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >
                              >


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                              ------------------------------------

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                            • Freydis the Good
                              LOL!!! You are welcome, Freydis ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              Message 14 of 19 , Dec 3, 2009
                              • 0 Attachment
                                LOL!!!

                                You are welcome,
                                Freydis



                                On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 1:24 PM, Lucia Clark <luciaclark@...>wrote:

                                >
                                >
                                > Nice! You are my new best friend
                                > Thanks
                                > Lucia
                                >
                                >
                                > -----Original Message-----
                                > From: Apicius@yahoogroups.com <Apicius%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:
                                > Apicius@yahoogroups.com <Apicius%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of
                                > Freydis the Good
                                > Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 1:34 PM
                                > To: Apicius@yahoogroups.com <Apicius%40yahoogroups.com>
                                > Subject: Re: [Apicius] First Roman Cookbooks to Purchase?
                                >
                                > Oh, Oh, OH!!! I've got a source for Lovage and it is quite INEXPENSIVE!!!
                                >
                                > http://www.mountainroseherbs.com/
                                >
                                > A 1 POUND bag of dried lovage leaf today is $17 USD. 1 Pound of the root is
                                > $12 USD.
                                >
                                > SMILES!!
                                > Freydis
                                >
                                > On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 10:49 AM, Lucia Clark
                                > <luciaclark@... <luciaclark%40luciadentice.com>>wrote:
                                >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Oooooh.. Roman stores were also civilized.. In any case, any supermarket
                                > > has
                                > > most of the ingredients you need. As for spices, if you do not find them
                                > in
                                > > a well stocked supermarket you will find them in middle-eastern or Indian
                                > > specialty stores (also very civilized). Unusual grains like farro you can
                                > > find in Italian specialty stores. Let's not forget the internet, you can
                                > > order quite a few things online. A couple of spices you will have to grow
                                > > yourself, like rue and lovage, or find substitutions. A good substitution
                                > > for garum is anchovy paste. Or. Like Apicius himself said, just add or
                                > omit
                                > > according to your taste. Justinus will be able to pin point the exact
                                > quote
                                > > and give to you in Latin.
                                > >
                                > > Lucia
                                > >
                                > > _____
                                > >
                                > > From: Apicius@yahoogroups.com <Apicius%40yahoogroups.com> <Apicius%
                                > 40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:
                                > > Apicius@yahoogroups.com <Apicius%40yahoogroups.com> <Apicius%
                                > 40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of
                                > > goliathrix@... <goliathrix%40hotmail.com> <goliathrix%
                                > 40hotmail.com>
                                >
                                > > Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 12:15 PM
                                > > To: Apicius@yahoogroups.com <Apicius%40yahoogroups.com> <Apicius%
                                > 40yahoogroups.com>
                                >
                                > > Subject: Re: [Apicius] First Roman Cookbooks to Purchase?
                                > >
                                > > Thank you for the reply! I am looking for historical accuracy just a book
                                > > that is an easy read. The few Roman cookbooks that I have looked over
                                > some
                                > > of the ingredients have been things that you can't find in civilized
                                > > grocery
                                > > stores.
                                > >
                                > > Joshua
                                > >
                                > > Optio
                                > > Legio VI F
                                > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
                                > >
                                > > -----Original Message-----
                                > > From: "coivinix" <pncmcdermott@
                                > <mailto:pncmcdermott%40comcast.net <pncmcdermott%2540comcast.net>
                                > <pncmcdermott%2540comcast.net>
                                > > >
                                > > comcast.net>
                                > > Date: Thu, 03 Dec 2009 16:08:03
                                > > To: <Apicius@yahoogroups
                                > <mailto:Apicius%40yahoogroups.com <Apicius%2540yahoogroups.com><Apicius%
                                > 2540yahoogroups.com>>
                                > > .com>
                                > > Subject: [Apicius] First Roman Cookbooks to Purchase?
                                > >
                                > > COIVINIX DONATO SAL P D
                                > > Welcome! While the group seems a bit moribund at present, there's much in
                                > > the archives to keep you going until the chatter starts up again.
                                > >
                                > > I'm sure everyone will have their own favorites, but here are the
                                > > ones_I_would direct you to:
                                > >
                                > > First and foremost, the admirable "practical" end of our fellow-listmate
                                > > Sally Grainger's new translation of APICIVS (done with her husband,
                                > > Christopher Groocock) COOKING APICIVS:
                                > >
                                > > <http://www.amazon
                                > > <
                                > >
                                > http://www.amazon.com/Cooking-Apicius-Roman-Recipes-Today/dp/1903018447/ref
                                > > =sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1259856283&sr=1-1>
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                                > com/Cooking-Apicius-Roman-Recipes-Today/dp/1903018447/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=b
                                > > ooks&qid=1259856283&sr=1-1>
                                > >
                                > > This is excellent scholarship yoked to practical cookery and intelligent
                                > > supposition. You will not do better--the only problem is that it is SO
                                > > SHORT. But perhaps Sally will find time to enlarge :>)
                                > >
                                > > You can buy both books together at a special price from the importer
                                > here:
                                > >
                                > > <http://www.oxbowboo <http://www.oxbowbooks.com/bookinfo.cfm/ID/61510>
                                > > ks.com/bookinfo.cfm/ID/61510>
                                > >
                                > > An earlier effort (with another listmate, Andrew Dalby) is THE CLASSICAL
                                > > COOKBOOK:
                                > >
                                > > <http://www.amazon
                                > > <
                                > >
                                > http://www.amazon.com/Classical-Cookbook-Andrew-Dalby/dp/071412222X/ref=sr_
                                > > 1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1259856244&sr=1-1>
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                                > com/Classical-Cookbook-Andrew-Dalby/dp/071412222X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books
                                > > &qid=1259856244&sr=1-1>
                                > >
                                > > Although it's aging, there is still much to like in Ilaria Gozzini
                                > > Giacosa's
                                > > A TASTE OF ANCIENT ROME:
                                > >
                                > > <http://www.amazon
                                > > <
                                > >
                                > http://www.amazon.com/Taste-Ancient-Ilaria-Gozzini-Giacosa/dp/0226290328/re
                                > > f=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1259856141&sr=8-1>
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                                > com/Taste-Ancient-Ilaria-Gozzini-Giacosa/dp/0226290328/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=
                                > > books&qid=1259856141&sr=8-1>
                                > >
                                > > And then there's Mark Grant's ROMAN COOKERY; a strong point of this one
                                > is
                                > > that it concentrates on more "every-day" food; a somewhat weaker point is
                                > > that, while the author is a very serious scholar....the redactions he
                                > > provides are a bit idiosyncratic at times and (which is perhaps exactly
                                > > what
                                > > you are looking for?) slanted to modern ease, rather than historical
                                > > accuracy. But--read with care--there is much here that is not covered
                                > > elsewhere:
                                > >
                                > > <http://www.amazon
                                > > <
                                > >
                                > http://www.amazon.com/Roman-Cookery-Ancient-Recipes-Kitchens/dp/1897959605/
                                > > ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b>
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                                > com/Roman-Cookery-Ancient-Recipes-Kitchens/dp/1897959605/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > > Hopefully you'll find something here which will suit you exactly. In the
                                > > best of all worlds, you'll eventually have them all on your bookshelf.
                                > >
                                > > BONA FORTVNA
                                > >
                                > > COIVINIX
                                > >
                                > > --- In Apicius@yahoogroups
                                > <mailto:Apicius%40yahoogroups.com <Apicius%2540yahoogroups.com><Apicius%
                                > 2540yahoogroups.com>>
                                >
                                > > .com,
                                > > "jbd_29349" <goliathrix@...> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > Ave Citizens!
                                > > >
                                > > > I hope that I am not out of line by starting a topic to just introduce
                                > > myself. My name is Joshua Davis I live in Spartanburg, South Carolina. I
                                > am
                                > > a member and the Optio of Legio VI FFC based out of Charleston, South
                                > > Carolina.
                                > > >
                                > > > I found this site going through some websites I haven't been to in a
                                > > while
                                > > and I am glad I did. I have been biten by the cooking bug here recently
                                > and
                                > > being a Roman re-enactor I would like to try authentic Roman dishes.
                                > > >
                                > > > My first question is this: where can I find a good Roman cookbook. Now
                                > my
                                > > definition of a good Roman cookbook is this, will give you substitutes
                                > for
                                > > things that you can't find in even a "fancy" grocery store. Also written
                                > by
                                > > someone that has reproduced these dishes and has applied modern cooking
                                > > techniques and or terms. This one is a bonus but not really necessary,
                                > > dates
                                > > for when these dishes were common/created.
                                > > >
                                > > > Joshua Davis
                                > > > aka
                                > > > Marivs Minivs Donatvs
                                > > > Optio Centvriae
                                > > > Legio VI FFC, Cohors I
                                > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > >
                                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------
                                >
                                >
                                > Post message: Apicius@yahoogroups.com <Apicius%40yahoogroups.com>
                                > Unsubscribe: Apicius-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<Apicius-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com>
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                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • cstewrt
                                ..and Josh, Don t forget you can bounce questions off Michele. I m sure she d love to help. Chris Legio XI Atlanta, GA
                                Message 15 of 19 , Dec 3, 2009
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  ..and Josh,

                                  Don't forget you can bounce questions off Michele. I'm sure she'd love to help.

                                  Chris

                                  Legio XI
                                  Atlanta, GA



                                  --- In Apicius@yahoogroups.com, lilinah@... wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Joshua / Optio, where are you located in the modern world? Listees
                                  > here are on several continents and no doubt some can point you to
                                  > good sources for unusual ingredients.
                                  > --
                                  > Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
                                  > the persona formerly known as Anahita
                                  >
                                • goliathrix@hotmail.com
                                  I am in the United States of America, South Carolina, Spartanburg. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ... From: lilinah@earthlink.net Date: Thu, 3 Dec
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Dec 3, 2009
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    I am in the United States of America, South Carolina, Spartanburg.
                                    Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: lilinah@...
                                    Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 11:09:58
                                    To: <Apicius@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Subject: Re: [Apicius] First Roman Cookbooks to Purchase?

                                    Joshua / Optio, where are you located in the modern world? Listees
                                    here are on several continents and no doubt some can point you to
                                    good sources for unusual ingredients.
                                    --
                                    Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
                                    the persona formerly known as Anahita



                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Andrea WIllett
                                    ... I thought it was the lovage SEED that was used? Know anywhere I can get bay berries? Andrea Whose lovage plant is now about knee-high.
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Dec 3, 2009
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      > Oh, Oh, OH!!! I've got a source for Lovage and it is quite INEXPENSIVE!!!
                                      >
                                      > http://www.mountainroseherbs.com/
                                      >
                                      > A 1 POUND bag of dried lovage leaf today is $17 USD. 1 Pound of the root
                                      > is
                                      > $12 USD.

                                      I thought it was the lovage SEED that was used?

                                      Know anywhere I can get bay berries?

                                      Andrea
                                      Whose lovage plant is now about knee-high.
                                    • goliathrix@hotmail.com
                                      Ahhhhhhhh!!!!!! I can t believe I didn t think about Michelle! I am such an idiot. Joshua Optio Legio VI F Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ... From:
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Dec 4, 2009
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Ahhhhhhhh!!!!!!

                                        I can't believe I didn't think about Michelle! I am such an idiot.

                                        Joshua
                                        Optio
                                        Legio VI F
                                        Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: "cstewrt" <cacrispvs@...>
                                        Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2009 02:15:54
                                        To: <Apicius@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Subject: [Apicius] Re: First Roman Cookbooks to Purchase?

                                        ...and Josh,

                                        Don't forget you can bounce questions off Michele. I'm sure she'd love to help.

                                        Chris

                                        Legio XI
                                        Atlanta, GA



                                        --- In Apicius@yahoogroups.com, lilinah@... wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Joshua / Optio, where are you located in the modern world? Listees
                                        > here are on several continents and no doubt some can point you to
                                        > good sources for unusual ingredients.
                                        > --
                                        > Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
                                        > the persona formerly known as Anahita
                                        >





                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • lilinah@earthlink.net
                                        ... We ve discussed this and i suspect both seed and herb were used. You can find details of everyone s comments in this list s archive on Yahoo. What i d like
                                        Message 19 of 19 , Dec 4, 2009
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Freydis wrote:
                                          > Oh, Oh, OH!!! I've got a source for Lovage and it is quite INEXPENSIVE!!!
                                          > http://www.mountainroseherbs.com/
                                          >
                                          > A 1 POUND bag of dried lovage leaf today is $17 USD. 1 Pound of the root
                                          > is $12 USD.

                                          Andrea replied:
                                          > I thought it was the lovage SEED that was used?
                                          >
                                          > Know anywhere I can get bay berries?

                                          We've discussed this and i suspect both seed and herb were used. You
                                          can find details of everyone's comments in this list's archive on
                                          Yahoo.

                                          What i'd like to find are myrtle berries. Anyone know of a vendor in the US?
                                          --
                                          Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
                                          the persona formerly known as Anahita
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