Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [Apicius] Frank's Steak

Expand Messages
  • jdm314@aol.com
    There is certainly nothing(!) with sugar and orange from the 5th century in Europe - perhaps from the 13th century or later. So it s better not to believe it
    Message 1 of 6 , Feb 8, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      There is certainly nothing(!) with sugar and orange from the 5th century in Europe - perhaps from the 13th century or later. So it's better not to believe it at all ;-)

      Oh, I somehow missed that an actual redaction is available at http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/28/dining/281mrex.html?ref=dining



      My assumption in any case was that this is some sort of traditional Venetian dish that legend connects to that historical incident. If that's even the case, it's at least possible the dish evolved from that source, but even so that's not much to go on!


      -----Original Message-----
      From: RM <apicius@...>
      To: Apicius@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 6:06 pm
      Subject: Re: [Apicius] Frank's Steak





























      There is certainly nothing(!) with sugar and orange from the 5th century in Europe - perhaps from the 13th century or later. So it's better not to believe it at all ;-)



      :-) RM



      ----- Original Message -----

      From: Heather Rose Jones

      To: Apicius@yahoogroups.com

      Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2009 6:52 PM

      Subject: Re: [Apicius] Frank's Steak



      On Feb 8, 2009, at 8:43 AM, jdm314@... wrote:



      > http://video.nytimes.com/video/2009/01/27/dining/1231546403635/franks-steak.html

      > http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/28/dining/28mini.html

      >

      >

      >

      >

      >

      > A recipe which, according to restaurateur Frank de Carlo, dates to

      > the fifth century.
      He says nothing about sources (my suspicion is

      > Venetian folk tradition), but inasmuch as it's meat marinated in

      > wine and spices it's plausible enough, even if the nutmeg is

      > anachronistic.



      The fact that he starts the description of the history with "legend

      has it" suggests to me that all bets are off. If you follow the

      description carefully, the implication is that only the marinating in

      wine is ascribed to the 5th century; and that the spices used in the

      modern recipe are ascribed to "1000 years ago". Even at that, the

      spicing is more reminiscent of 14-15th century cuisine than what

      little we know of earlier.



      If I had to bet money, it would be that the recipe is a modern

      invention, inspired to some extent by late medieval cuisine, and

      dressed up in a historic fiction to make it sound more interesting and

      in the expectation that nobody who matters will care about the

      details. That is, my money is on it being Frank de Carlo's steak, not

      the steak of the Frankish invaders of Italy.



      It does sound delicious.



      Heather



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]









































      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Crystal
      ... http://video.nytimes.com/video/2009/01/27/dining/1231546403635/franks- steak.html ... the fifth century. He says nothing about sources (my suspicion is
      Message 2 of 6 , Feb 9, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        --- In Apicius@yahoogroups.com, jdm314@... wrote:
        >
        >
        http://video.nytimes.com/video/2009/01/27/dining/1231546403635/franks-
        steak.html
        > http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/28/dining/28mini.html

        > A recipe which, according to restaurateur Frank de Carlo, dates to
        the fifth century. He says nothing about sources (my suspicion is
        Venetian folk tradition), but inasmuch as it's meat marinated in wine
        and spices it's plausible enough, even if the nutmeg is
        anachronistic. 
        >

        > Can anyone provide more information? Lucia, do you know anything
        about this recipe? The fact that he gives no official name, not even
        whatever they call it in Venice, makes it a little difficult to check.
        >

        People love to feel like they're getting part of history, right? Or
        that something sounds exotic. Reminds me of going to a Mario Batali
        restaurant in Vegas recently and on the menu they had some dish cooked
        with "Apician spices." When I asked what the spices happened to be,
        it turned out to be cinnamon, cardamom and nutmeg. Cinnamon was a
        medicine in ancient Rome, if I'm not mistaken, and nutmeg didn't
        appear until the Middle Ages. So maybe it was a substitution of some
        sort but really I think it's all about the marketing spin sometimes...
      • jdm314@aol.com
        Cinnamon was a medicine in ancient Rome, if I m not mistaken,  I don t know offhand if it shows up in food (if it does, it certainly isn t common), but I do
        Message 3 of 6 , Feb 9, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          Cinnamon was a medicine in ancient Rome, if I'm not mistaken, 
          I don't know offhand if it shows up in food (if it does, it certainly isn't common), but I do know that it shows up in at least one medical conditum. So, there's medical, and then there's medical. What I'm trying to say is that cinnamon may have been medical, but that doesn't mean it was as foreign to cuisine as, say, sugar.
          and nutmeg didn't appear until the Middle Ages.
          Agreed.

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Crystal <crystallyn@...>
          To: Apicius@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 2:28 pm
          Subject: [Apicius] Re: Frank's Steak





























          --- In Apicius@yahoogroups.com, jdm314@... wrote:

          >

          >

          http://video.nytimes.com/video/2009/01/27/dining/1231546403635/franks-

          steak.html

          > http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/28/dining/28mini.html



          > A recipe which, according to restaurateur Frank de Carlo, dates to

          the fifth century. He says nothing about sources (my suspicion is

          Venetian folk tradition), but inasmuch as it's meat marinated in wine

          and spices it's plausible enough, even if the nutmeg is

          anachronistic. 

          >



          > Can anyone provide more information? Lucia, do you know anything

          about this recipe? The fact that he gives no official name, not even

          whatever they call it in Venice, makes it a little difficult to check.

          >



          People love to feel like they're getting part of history, right? Or

          that something=2
          0sounds exotic. Reminds me of going to a Mario Batali

          restaurant in Vegas recently and on the menu they had some dish cooked

          with "Apician spices." When I asked what the spices happened to be,

          it turned out to be cinnamon, cardamom and nutmeg. Cinnamon was a

          medicine in ancient Rome, if I'm not mistaken, and nutmeg didn't

          appear until the Middle Ages. So maybe it was a substitution of some

          sort but really I think it's all about the marketing spin sometimes...







































          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.