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Re: [Apicius] The Potato

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  • paul martinis
    MMMM parsnips! Tiberious Flavius Poulos,Centurio,LEGIIAVG ... From: Correus Subject: Re: [Apicius] The Potato To: Apicius@yahoogroups.com
    Message 1 of 21 , Aug 18, 2008
      MMMM parsnips!



      Tiberious Flavius Poulos,Centurio,LEGIIAVG

      --- On Mon, 8/18/08, Correus <correus@...> wrote:

      From: Correus <correus@...>
      Subject: Re: [Apicius] The Potato
      To: Apicius@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Monday, August 18, 2008, 2:25 PM






      I think you are correct....
       
      Let me ask you this.....
       
      One of my favorite dishes is roasted chicken with carrots and potatoes (in that clay pot boar).  In fact, my ALL TIME favorite food in the entire world is the simple roasted potato.
       
      What do you think the Roman cook would use in a roasting pot in lieu of potatoes?  I can see carrots and parsnips and even turnips.  What else do you think they would have used in a dish such as this?
       
      BTW - don't you just love these stupid little questions?!  LOL
       
      Vale -
      Correus

      --- On Mon, 8/18/08, Volker Bach <carlton_bach@ yahoo.de> wrote:

      From: Volker Bach <carlton_bach@ yahoo.de>
      Subject: Re: [Apicius] The Potato
      To: Apicius@yahoogroups .com
      Date: Monday, August 18, 2008, 1:36 PM

      --- Correus <correus@yahoo. com> schrieb am Mo, 18.8.2008:

      > All true...but what do you think the Romans used as much,
      > and as often, and as in many ways as we do the potato?

      Grain, mainly wheat. Potatoes and grains are starchy foods and by nature 'sitos' rather than 'opson'. Where we have potato chips and crisps, the Romans had cookie-oids and fritters. Where we have boiled potatoes, they had bread and tracta. Where we have mashed potatoes, they had grain porridge and polenta.

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    • Heather Rose Jones
      ... I wouldn t go so far as to call it a _stupid_ question, but I do think it may be a misguided one. Is it wise to assume that every cuisine has a functional
      Message 2 of 21 , Aug 18, 2008
        On Aug 18, 2008, at 2:25 PM, Correus wrote:

        > I think you are correct....
        >
        > Let me ask you this.....
        >
        > One of my favorite dishes is roasted chicken with carrots and
        > potatoes (in that clay pot boar). In fact, my ALL TIME favorite
        > food in the entire world is the simple roasted potato.
        >
        > What do you think the Roman cook would use in a roasting pot in
        > lieu of potatoes? I can see carrots and parsnips and even
        > turnips. What else do you think they would have used in a dish
        > such as this?
        >
        > BTW - don't you just love these stupid little questions?! LOL

        I wouldn't go so far as to call it a _stupid_ question, but I do
        think it may be a misguided one. Is it wise to assume that every
        cuisine has a functional slot in its repertoire that corresponds to
        our modern use of the potato? Cuisines tend to grow around the
        functional properties of the available resources (both in terms of
        foodstuffs and cooking methods). Beyond the biological requirements
        for certain nutrients and an adequate caloric intake, I'd hesitate to
        assume any culinary universals across time and space.

        I once got involved in a fascinating discussion sparked by the
        question, "What did Europeans drink as a hot breakfast beverage
        before the discovery of coffee, tea, and cocoa?" I tended to argue
        on the side of, "Why do we assume that 'hot breakfast beverage' is a
        natural and universal category?" Your question about potatoes
        strikes me as being a similar sort of question. It asks "what did
        they ...?" before answering the question "did they?"

        Heather
      • richard robinson
        i think the question did they has to be asked. my tiny mind was blown away when somebody stated that oyster bars were the roman equivalent of fish and chip
        Message 3 of 21 , Aug 19, 2008
          i think the question "did they" has to be asked.
          my tiny mind was blown away when somebody stated that oyster bars were the roman equivalent of fish and chip shops (oyster shell deposits are everywhere romans stopped...)
          and there you have an equivalent to potato chips, n'est-ce pas?
          regards
          miles minimus

          --- On Mon, 8/18/08, Heather Rose Jones <heather.jones@...> wrote:

          From: Heather Rose Jones <heather.jones@...>
          Subject: Re: [Apicius] The Potato
          To: Apicius@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Monday, August 18, 2008, 11:40 PM







          On Aug 18, 2008, at 2:25 PM, Correus wrote:

          > I think you are correct....
          >
          > Let me ask you this.....
          >
          > One of my favorite dishes is roasted chicken with carrots and
          > potatoes (in that clay pot boar). In fact, my ALL TIME favorite
          > food in the entire world is the simple roasted potato.
          >
          > What do you think the Roman cook would use in a roasting pot in
          > lieu of potatoes? I can see carrots and parsnips and even
          > turnips. What else do you think they would have used in a dish
          > such as this?
          >
          > BTW - don't you just love these stupid little questions?! LOL

          I wouldn't go so far as to call it a _stupid_ question, but I do
          think it may be a misguided one. Is it wise to assume that every
          cuisine has a functional slot in its repertoire that corresponds to
          our modern use of the potato? Cuisines tend to grow around the
          functional properties of the available resources (both in terms of
          foodstuffs and cooking methods). Beyond the biological requirements
          for certain nutrients and an adequate caloric intake, I'd hesitate to
          assume any culinary universals across time and space.

          I once got involved in a fascinating discussion sparked by the
          question, "What did Europeans drink as a hot breakfast beverage
          before the discovery of coffee, tea, and cocoa?" I tended to argue
          on the side of, "Why do we assume that 'hot breakfast beverage' is a
          natural and universal category?" Your question about potatoes
          strikes me as being a similar sort of question. It asks "what did
          they ...?" before answering the question "did they?"

          Heather

















          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Alicia Roberts
          Ave, Agree with Heather that they do not appear to have such a thing as an alternative, as they didn t feel the lack of potato, they didn t need to find
          Message 4 of 21 , Aug 19, 2008
            Ave,

            Agree with Heather that they do not appear to have such a thing as an alternative, as they didn't feel the lack of potato, they didn't need to find one....it would appear they just used various veg and pulses to fulfill the same roles...

            However, the humble parsnip does much the same thing as a potato, can be boiled, mashed, stewed, deep fried (parsnips crisps/chips are gooorgeous) and of course roasted...what would christmas dinner in good old Blighty be without the roast parsnip.....?

            another alternative for crisps/chips is fresh pasta deep fried, we've been serving this in our Thermopolium for years and it's a very popular bar snack :O)



            To: apicius@yahoogroups.comFrom: correus@...: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 09:47:34 -0700Subject: [Apicius] The Potato




            Ave Group - The Potato. A tuber that is so ingrained in most cuisines around the world that is often taken for granted. It is so much a part of our various food cultures that it's hard to believe it did not start to gain widespread acceptance until around the 1780s!! Now try to imagine a world today without the potato... Try to imagine a week, or a handful of days where you did not eat a potato in some form. Hard to do isn't it. This has often led me to wonder what the Roman would have done if they'd of known about the potato. So, I must admit, there have been numerous times that I incorporated potatoes into Roman dishes. I have even substituted potatoes for other items at times with excellent results! With the knowledge that Romans knew nothing of the potato I am left with a question and I hope that this e-mail has peaked your curiosity enough to mull it over. What was the Roman world's 'Potato'? Vale,Correus [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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          • Alicia Roberts
            p.s. meant to add, the parsnip is indigenous to most of Europe and there is certainly evidence that the Romans cultivated them and grew them in their kitchen
            Message 5 of 21 , Aug 19, 2008
              p.s. meant to add, the parsnip is indigenous to most of Europe and there is certainly evidence that the Romans cultivated them and grew them in their kitchen gardens here in the UK.

              To: apicius@yahoogroups.comFrom: correus@...: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 09:47:34 -0700Subject: [Apicius] The Potato




              Ave Group - The Potato. A tuber that is so ingrained in most cuisines around the world that is often taken for granted. It is so much a part of our various food cultures that it's hard to believe it did not start to gain widespread acceptance until around the 1780s!! Now try to imagine a world today without the potato... Try to imagine a week, or a handful of days where you did not eat a potato in some form. Hard to do isn't it. This has often led me to wonder what the Roman would have done if they'd of known about the potato. So, I must admit, there have been numerous times that I incorporated potatoes into Roman dishes. I have even substituted potatoes for other items at times with excellent results! With the knowledge that Romans knew nothing of the potato I am left with a question and I hope that this e-mail has peaked your curiosity enough to mull it over. What was the Roman world's 'Potato'? Vale,Correus [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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            • Lucia Clark
              I cold be wrong, but my guess is bread in its many forms and made with its many grains. It was used to pick up soupy foods as well, and as a wrap for chunky
              Message 6 of 21 , Aug 19, 2008
                I cold be wrong, but my guess is bread in its many forms and made
                with its many grains. It was used to pick up soupy foods as well, and
                as a wrap for chunky foods in the "fast food" eateries.


                At 02:30 PM 8/18/2008, you wrote:

                >All true...but what do you think the Romans used as much, and as
                >often, and as in many ways as we do the potato?
                >
                >--- On Mon, 8/18/08, Lucia Clark
                ><<mailto:luciaclark%40luciadentice.com>luciaclark@...> wrote:
                >
                >From: Lucia Clark
                ><<mailto:luciaclark%40luciadentice.com>luciaclark@...>
                >Subject: Re: [Apicius] The Potato
                >To: <mailto:Apicius%40yahoogroups.com>Apicius@yahoogroups.com
                >Date: Monday, August 18, 2008, 1:16 PM
                >
                >My humble self thinks that it was the same general idea as for "food
                >processor". If the thing does not exist, the word does not exist.
                >However, there were plenty of mashed beans and grains. And some
                >edible bulbs like lilies and gladioli (Italian, a flower of which the
                >English word escapes me now). Not the same bulbs as what we have now,
                >so don't go digging them out of your flower bed!
                >Ciao
                >Lucia
                >
                >At 12:47 PM 8/18/2008, you wrote:
                >
                > >Ave Group -
                > >
                > >The Potato. A tuber that is so ingrained in most cuisines around
                > >the world that is often taken for granted. It is so much a part of
                > >our various food cultures that it's hard to believe it did not start
                > >to gain widespread acceptance until around the 1780s!!
                > >
                > >Now try to imagine a world today without the potato...
                > >
                > >Try to imagine a week, or a handful of days where you did not eat a
                > >potato in some form.
                > >
                > >Hard to do isn't it.
                > >
                > >This has often led me to wonder what the Roman would have done if
                > >they'd of known about the potato. So, I must admit, there have been
                > >numerous times that I incorporated potatoes into Roman dishes. I
                > >have even substituted potatoes for other items at times with
                > excellent results!
                > >
                > >With the knowledge that Romans knew nothing of the potato I am left
                > >with a question and I hope that this e-mail has peaked your
                > >curiosity enough to mull it over.
                > >
                > >What was the Roman world's 'Potato'?
                > >
                > >Vale,
                > >Correus
                > >
                > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > >
                >
                >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Lucia Clark
                Nicely put. I agree Lucia ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                Message 7 of 21 , Aug 19, 2008
                  Nicely put. I agree
                  Lucia


                  At 02:40 AM 8/19/2008, you wrote:


                  >On Aug 18, 2008, at 2:25 PM, Correus wrote:
                  >
                  > > I think you are correct....
                  > >
                  > > Let me ask you this.....
                  > >
                  > > One of my favorite dishes is roasted chicken with carrots and
                  > > potatoes (in that clay pot boar). In fact, my ALL TIME favorite
                  > > food in the entire world is the simple roasted potato.
                  > >
                  > > What do you think the Roman cook would use in a roasting pot in
                  > > lieu of potatoes? I can see carrots and parsnips and even
                  > > turnips. What else do you think they would have used in a dish
                  > > such as this?
                  > >
                  > > BTW - don't you just love these stupid little questions?! LOL
                  >
                  >I wouldn't go so far as to call it a _stupid_ question, but I do
                  >think it may be a misguided one. Is it wise to assume that every
                  >cuisine has a functional slot in its repertoire that corresponds to
                  >our modern use of the potato? Cuisines tend to grow around the
                  >functional properties of the available resources (both in terms of
                  >foodstuffs and cooking methods). Beyond the biological requirements
                  >for certain nutrients and an adequate caloric intake, I'd hesitate to
                  >assume any culinary universals across time and space.
                  >
                  >I once got involved in a fascinating discussion sparked by the
                  >question, "What did Europeans drink as a hot breakfast beverage
                  >before the discovery of coffee, tea, and cocoa?" I tended to argue
                  >on the side of, "Why do we assume that 'hot breakfast beverage' is a
                  >natural and universal category?" Your question about potatoes
                  >strikes me as being a similar sort of question. It asks "what did
                  >they ...?" before answering the question "did they?"
                  >
                  >Heather
                  >



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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