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Re: [Apicius] Re: Fresh Roman Cheese

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  • ranvaig@columbus.rr.com
    Both of them are quite bland. Yogurt cheese tastes like unsweetened yogurt. Vinegar cheese is a little sour because of the vinegar, but its not a big
    Message 1 of 30 , Sep 5, 2007
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      Both of them are quite bland. Yogurt cheese tastes like unsweetened yogurt. Vinegar cheese is a little sour because of the vinegar, but its not a big difference.

      >What about taste though?
    • Correus
      Hey, since we are on this subject.... I have a cheese cloth bad filled with yogurt in the fridge right now. The liquid is straining off okay, however, it has
      Message 2 of 30 , Sep 5, 2007
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        Hey, since we are on this subject....

        I have a cheese cloth bad filled with yogurt in the fridge right now. The liquid is straining off okay, however, it has been in there 24 hours and is not completely finished.

        The other times I have done this the weather was cooler and I could leave it in a cool cabinet to strain. With the heat and humidity I'm afraid to do it this time.

        How long do you think it will take for it to completely strain in the fridge? Should I try to force the liquid out? When I've left it in a cool cabinet it is done in less than 24 hours.

        Correus

        ranvaig@... wrote:
        Both of them are quite bland. Yogurt cheese tastes like unsweetened yogurt. Vinegar cheese is a little sour because of the vinegar, but its not a big difference.

        >What about taste though?





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Lucia Clark
        Columella lists fig milk as a rennet. It is the milky liquid that comes off unripe figs or fig leaves. Lucia ... [Non-text portions of this message have been
        Message 3 of 30 , Sep 5, 2007
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          Columella lists "fig milk" as a rennet. It is the milky liquid that
          comes off unripe figs or fig leaves.
          Lucia




          At 11:34 AM 9/5/2007, you wrote:

          > >How different would the cheese made from milk & vinegar be from
          > yogurt cheese?
          > >
          >Cheese from milk and vinegar is fairly solid. Like Indian paneer. Or
          >like Feta cheese, but without the salt. You can slice or crumble it.
          >It doesnt melt, and can be fried. Yogurt cheese is much softer, you spread it.
          >
          >Ranvaig
          >



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Correus
          Interesting....I know it isn t the same thing, but I have some fig vinegar. Correus Lucia Clark wrote: Columella lists fig milk
          Message 4 of 30 , Sep 5, 2007
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            Interesting....I know it isn't the same thing, but I have some fig vinegar.

            Correus

            Lucia Clark <luciaclark@...> wrote:
            Columella lists "fig milk" as a rennet. It is the milky liquid that
            comes off unripe figs or fig leaves.
            Lucia

            At 11:34 AM 9/5/2007, you wrote:

            > >How different would the cheese made from milk & vinegar be from
            > yogurt cheese?
            > >
            >Cheese from milk and vinegar is fairly solid. Like Indian paneer. Or
            >like Feta cheese, but without the salt. You can slice or crumble it.
            >It doesnt melt, and can be fried. Yogurt cheese is much softer, you spread it.
            >
            >Ranvaig
            >

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • mz_nite_gardener
            The A Taste of Ancient Rome author uses only clean, unbleached untreated Linen instead of cheese cloth when straining fresh cheeses. Cheese cloth has a tight
            Message 5 of 30 , Sep 5, 2007
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              The "A Taste of Ancient Rome" author uses only clean, unbleached
              untreated Linen instead of cheese cloth when straining fresh cheeses.
              Cheese cloth has a tight weave, wheras Linen has a looser weave
              allowing for quicker straining.

              Octavia

              --- In Apicius@yahoogroups.com, Correus <correus@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hey, since we are on this subject....
              >
              > I have a cheese cloth bad filled with yogurt in the fridge right
              now. The liquid is straining off okay, however, it has been in there
              24 hours and is not completely finished.
              >
              > The other times I have done this the weather was cooler and I
              could leave it in a cool cabinet to strain. With the heat and
              humidity I'm afraid to do it this time.
              >
              > How long do you think it will take for it to completely strain in
              the fridge? Should I try to force the liquid out? When I've left it
              in a cool cabinet it is done in less than 24 hours.
              >
              > Correus
              >
              > ranvaig@... wrote:
              > Both of them are quite bland. Yogurt cheese tastes like
              unsweetened yogurt. Vinegar cheese is a little sour because of the
              vinegar, but its not a big difference.
              >
              > >What about taste though?
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • ranvaig@columbus.rr.com
              ... I ve never left it longer than overnight. You could put a weight on it, I wouldn t do that until it was already partially drained. I put a clean bowl on
              Message 6 of 30 , Sep 5, 2007
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                >Hey, since we are on this subject....
                >
                > I have a cheese cloth bad filled with yogurt in the fridge right now. The liquid is straining off okay, however, it has been in there 24 hours and is not completely finished.
                >
                I've never left it longer than overnight. You could put a weight on it, I wouldn't do that until it was already partially drained. I put a clean bowl on top, and fill it with water for whatever weight I want. You can start with a little and add more.

                Ranvaig
              • J H
                Sorry folks! The author of A Taste of Ancient Rome recommened MUSLIN, not Linen when making fresh cheese. ... [Non-text portions of this message have been
                Message 7 of 30 , Sep 5, 2007
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                  Sorry folks! The author of A Taste of Ancient Rome recommened MUSLIN, not
                  Linen when making fresh cheese.
                  On 9/4/07, Correus <correus@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > SALVETE OMNES!
                  >
                  > I found the following on another group.
                  >
                  > << Fresh Roman cheese is really easy to make - we made some saturday for a
                  > banquet in the evening.
                  >
                  > Just heat up whole milk to warm & add vinegar to curdle it - it doesn't
                  > really affect the taste. Then scoop up the solids and drain them through
                  > cheese cloth or muslin, add chopped herbs or onion of any other flavouring
                  > and press for a couple of hours to remove the last of the liquid.
                  >
                  > Then it is ready to eat. >>
                  >
                  > Have any of you done this? Do you know what quantities to us and what
                  > type of vinegar?
                  >
                  > VALETE
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                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Correus
                  We have had a cool front move through, so I m going to leave it in a cool spot outside the fridge. Hopefully that will work. ranvaig@columbus.rr.com wrote:
                  Message 8 of 30 , Sep 5, 2007
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                    We have had a cool front move through, so I'm going to leave it in a cool spot outside the fridge. Hopefully that will work.

                    ranvaig@... wrote: >Hey, since we are on this subject....
                    >
                    > I have a cheese cloth bad filled with yogurt in the fridge right now. The liquid is straining off okay, however, it has been in there 24 hours and is not completely finished.
                    >
                    I've never left it longer than overnight. You could put a weight on it, I wouldn't do that until it was already partially drained. I put a clean bowl on top, and fill it with water for whatever weight I want. You can start with a little and add more.

                    Ranvaig





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Samantha
                    Salve Omnes, Rennet is the lining of the fourth stomach of suckling, grazing animals. It is rich in the enzyme, rennin, which causes milk to coagulate. Some
                    Message 9 of 30 , Sep 5, 2007
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                      Salve Omnes,

                      Rennet is the lining of the fourth stomach of suckling, grazing
                      animals. It is rich in the enzyme, rennin, which causes milk to
                      coagulate.

                      Some food historians speculate that cheese was initially discovered
                      when someone filled a bladder made from one of these organs with milk
                      and then went trekking; only to find the contents had clotted during
                      the journey.

                      In any event rennet, sold under that name, is readily available in
                      supermarkets, here in the south. It is also the active ingredient in
                      an old-fashioned pudding called Junket.

                      As for the cheese cloth, I make my own yogurt cheese and have found
                      that a fine mesh sieve lined with a coffee filter does a fine job of
                      separating the curds from the whey.

                      Samantha


                      --- In Apicius@yahoogroups.com, ranvaig@... wrote:
                      >
                      > >A quick search (in French) told me that curdling in modern cheese
                      is made
                      > >with part of Calves stomaches (Caillettes de veau in French).
                      > >
                      > >But it wasn't always so, and in fact calf rennet wasn't mainstream
                      until
                      > >last century.
                      > >
                      > >So for Roman cheese, we might probably want some vegetable rennet.
                      > >
                      >
                      > I think that might be saying that you could buy processed calf
                      rennet then, instead of having to soak a lamb's stomach and make it
                      yourself. Everything I have read says that cheese from animal rennet
                      is very ancient, long before Roman times.
                      >
                      > Ranvaig
                      >
                    • toast_y_toes
                      I ve heard of a tribe somewhere (can t for the life of me think where now) that traditionally hang a sheeps stomach with milk outside the door of their homes,
                      Message 10 of 30 , Sep 6, 2007
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                        I've heard of a tribe somewhere (can't for the life of me think
                        where now) that traditionally hang a sheeps stomach with milk
                        outside the door of their homes, and every family member or visitor
                        that goes in or out has to stir it as a blessing or welcome, until
                        it becomes cheese.....

                        a practice that seems to have gone on forever. (for what it's worth)
                        lol.



                        --- In Apicius@yahoogroups.com, jdm314@... wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I think that might be saying that you could buy processed calf
                        rennet then, instead of having to soak a lamb's stomach and make it
                        yourself. Everything I have read says that cheese from animal
                        rennet is very ancient, long before Roman times.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > There's that locus classicus, I think in Pliny, where the
                        different ways to curdle cheese are listed. It includes both
                        vegetable and animal methods. Our own Andrew Dalby in his Food in
                        the Ancient World: A to Z lists as one of the perils of ancient
                        vegetarianism that it would be highly unlikely that one could find
                        out which cheeses used which rennets.
                        >
                        > I'm swamped in a paper that must be written at the moment,
                        otherwise I'd track it down and translate it for you all. However,
                        I'm sure there is a translation of it in one of our books. Try
                        Around the Roman Table maybe?
                        >
                        > JDM
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: ranvaig@...
                        > To: Apicius@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 10:31 am
                        > Subject: Re: [Apicius] Re: Fresh Roman Cheese
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                        > >A quick search (in French) told me that curdling in modern cheese
                        is made
                        >
                        > >with part of Calves stomaches (Caillettes de veau in French).
                        >
                        > >
                        >
                        > >But it wasn't always so, and in fact calf rennet wasn't
                        mainstream until
                        >
                        > >last century.
                        >
                        > >
                        >
                        > >So for Roman cheese, we might probably want some vegetable rennet.
                        >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I think that might be saying that you could buy processed calf
                        rennet then, instead of having to soak a lamb's stomach and make it
                        yourself. Everything I have read says that cheese from animal
                        rennet is very ancient, long before Roman times.
                        >
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                        > Ranvaig
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                      • Lilinah
                        ... Do you mean a cloth sold by cheese supply vendors? Because here in the US, cheese cloth sold in supermarkets is extremely loosely woven... and even the
                        Message 11 of 30 , Sep 6, 2007
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                          >The "A Taste of Ancient Rome" author uses only clean, unbleached
                          >untreated Linen instead of cheese cloth when straining fresh cheeses.
                          >Cheese cloth has a tight weave, wheras Linen has a looser weave
                          >allowing for quicker straining.
                          >
                          >Octavia

                          Do you mean a cloth sold by cheese supply vendors?

                          Because here in the US, cheese cloth sold in supermarkets is
                          extremely loosely woven... and even the wimpy "handkerchief" linen
                          sold in fabric stores is more tightly woven.

                          Or are you somewhere not in the US, where cheese cloth is something else?

                          Anahita
                        • Aurelia (Laura Sweet)
                          I m pretty sure it s a matter of preference. Both work equally well, in my experience. Now I just use cheesecloth from the gorcery store. A ... not
                          Message 12 of 30 , Sep 6, 2007
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                            I'm pretty sure it's a matter of preference. Both work equally well, in
                            my experience. Now I just use cheesecloth from the gorcery store.

                            A

                            --- In Apicius@yahoogroups.com, "J H" <research.cybrarian@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Sorry folks! The author of A Taste of Ancient Rome recommened MUSLIN,
                            not
                            > Linen when making fresh cheese.
                          • Samia al-Kaslaania
                            That s a Mongolian folk tradition. I don t believe there is evidence of it being practiced in period. And they re making fermented mare s milk in the process.
                            Message 13 of 30 , Sep 15, 2007
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                              That's a Mongolian folk tradition. I don't believe there is evidence of
                              it being practiced in period.

                              And they're making fermented mare's milk in the process. :)

                              Samia

                              toast_y_toes wrote:
                              > I've heard of a tribe somewhere (can't for the life of me think
                              > where now) that traditionally hang a sheeps stomach with milk
                              > outside the door of their homes, and every family member or visitor
                              > that goes in or out has to stir it as a blessing or welcome, until
                              > it becomes cheese.....
                              >
                              > a practice that seems to have gone on forever. (for what it's worth)
                              > lol.
                              >
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