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Lovage leaf VEL Celery leaf; Lovage seed VEL Celery seed?

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  • Kevin McDermott
    Hello all--and particularly Sally, if she s around.... After a lengthy hiatus, back to Roman cooking; my priest is coming by on Tuesday, and to go along with
    Message 1 of 7 , Jul 15, 2007
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      Hello all--and particularly Sally, if she's around....
      After a lengthy hiatus, back to Roman cooking; my priest is coming by on
      Tuesday, and to go along with my newly designed and typset Eucharistic
      Liturgy from the DIDACHE TON DODEKA APOSTOLON (The Teaching of the
      Twelve Apostles)--which may very well date to AD 60-80, making it older than
      most, if not all, of the New Testament--I thought I'd lay on a simple Roman
      meal, of the kind members of the early Christian COLLEGIA brought for their
      non-sacramental eucharistic (thanksgiving) feasts and/or AGAPEs.

      I'll be making up some Cappadocian-style bread as PANIS QUADRATIS;
      these loaves suggested themselves to the early Christians because they
      already had a cross marked on them; they seem to have been smaller, and
      therefore were divided into only four portion-size farls. And wine, of course:
      these are the elements required by the liturgy. In addition, MORETVM, olives,
      OFFELAS OSTIENSES and for sweets ALITER DVLCIA [DOMESTICA]
      (Apicius 7.11.3); in other words, simple food that could be picked up at the
      local POPINA and brought to the communal meal.

      I'm following Sally's recipe for the OFELLAE in COOKING APICIUS, and ran
      into a problem that got me thinking:

      Well, we didn't plant lovage: it failed horribly last year, while the rue that went
      in at the same time thrived, overwintered, and is waist high now. And, at least
      in my neighborhood, lovage leaf is not to be had commercially.

      In THE CLASSICAL COOKBOOK, Sally suggests substituting celery leaf for
      lovage leaf if unavailable and comments that the flavor is amazingly similar.
      So, what about celery seed for lovage seed?

      As a practical matter: it's done: the pork is marinating as I write this, and the
      odor is very enticing. And yes, I know that substitution is the name of the
      game; as Lucia keeps saying, each cook undoubtedly had their own methods
      and preferences then as now. The question really is: if someone has had
      lovage seed, what do you think the taste difference is between it and celery
      seed?

      VALE
      COIVINIX
    • apollosfriend
      ... The question really is: if someone has had ... and celery ... Yes, there is some similarity. But there is yet a difference. If it is important to you,
      Message 2 of 7 , Jul 15, 2007
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        --- In Apicius@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin McDermott" <pncmcdermott@...>
        wrote:
        >
        The question really is: if someone has had
        > lovage seed, what do you think the taste difference is between it
        and celery
        > seed?

        Yes, there is some similarity. But there is yet a difference. If it
        is important to you, there are several more options. Lovage seeds do
        not taste hardly any different from the foliage and the roots. Both
        are easily available.

        The seeds are harder to come by but not that hard:

        http://www.richters.com/Web_store/web_store.cgi?product=X3780&cart_id=9733476.30880
        Product Listing

        Yes, these seeds are for planting, but Richters claims that all of
        their seeds are chemical free. Theirs are the seeds that I have been
        using.

        Jim Kollens, Apollo's friend
      • jdm314@aol.com
        I have no answer to Kevin s query, but it does remind me of a question I had wanted to ask, myself: I have some lovage seeds and bay berries I bought from
        Message 3 of 7 , Jul 15, 2007
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          I have no answer to Kevin's query, but it does remind me of a question I had wanted to ask, myself:

          I have some lovage seeds and bay berries I bought from Richters. Obviously Richters intends them for planting, not eating. Do you think they'd be safe to eat, though, or will they be glazed with a delicate frosting of delicious fungicides?

          JDM







          -----Original Message-----
          From: Kevin McDermott <pncmcdermott@...>
          To: Apicius@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 7:19 pm
          Subject: [Apicius] Lovage leaf VEL Celery leaf; Lovage seed VEL Celery seed?

























          Hello all--and particularly Sally, if she's around....

          After a lengthy hiatus, back to Roman cooking; my priest is coming by on

          Tuesday, and to go along with my newly designed and typset Eucharistic

          Liturgy from the DIDACHE TON DODEKA APOSTOLON (The Teaching of the

          Twelve Apostles)--which may very well date to AD 60-80, making it older than

          most, if not all, of the New Testament--I thought I'd lay on a simple Roman

          meal, of the kind members of the early Christian COLLEGIA brought for their

          non-sacramental eucharistic (thanksgiving) feasts and/or AGAPEs.



          I'll be making up some Cappadocian-style bread as PANIS QUADRATIS;

          these loaves suggested themselves to the early Christians because they

          already had a cross marked on them; they seem to have been smaller, and

          therefore were divided into only four portion-size farls. And wine, of course:

          these are the elements required by the liturgy. In addition, MORETVM, olives,

          OFFELAS OSTIENSES and for sweets ALITER DVLCIA [DOMESTICA]

          (Apicius 7.11.3); in other words, simple food that could be picked up at the

          local POPINA and brought to the communal meal.



          I'm following Sally's recipe for the OFELLAE in COOKING APICIUS, and ran

          into a problem that got me thinking:



          Well, we didn't plant lovage: it failed horribly last year, while the rue that went

          in at the same time thrived, overwintered, and is waist high now. And, at least

          in my neighborhood, lovage leaf is not to be had commercially.



          In THE CLASSICAL COOKBOOK, Sally suggests substituting celery leaf for

          lovage leaf if unavailable and comments that the flavor is amazingly similar.

          So, what about celery seed for lovage seed?



          As a practical matter: it's done: the pork is marinating as I write this, and the

          odor is very enticing. And yes, I know that substitution is the name of the

          game; as Lucia keeps saying, each cook undoubtedly had their own methods

          and preferences then as now. The question really is: if someone has had

          lovage seed, what do you think the taste difference is between it and celery

          seed?



          VALE

          COIVINIX

















          ________________________________________________________________________
          AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • apollosfriend
          ... Obviously Richters intends them for planting, not eating. Do you think they d be safe to eat, though, or will they be glazed with a delicate frosting of
          Message 4 of 7 , Jul 15, 2007
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            --- In Apicius@yahoogroups.com, jdm314@... wrote:
            >
            >
            > I have some lovage seeds and bay berries I bought from Richters.
            Obviously Richters intends them for planting, not eating. Do you think
            they'd be safe to eat, though, or will they be glazed with a delicate
            frosting of delicious fungicides?

            As I stated in my previous post, Richters claims that their seeds are
            untreated.

            The laurel berries, on the other hand, are another matter. Have you
            looked at yours? Richters sends them in a germinated state - too late
            for eating! However, you can find edible ones here:

            http://www.pennherb.com/cgi-bin/herbstore.cgi/herb?;Laurel
            Penn Herb Company On-Line Herb Store Catalog

            Jim Kollens, Apollo's friend
          • jdm314@aol.com
            As I stated in my previous post, Richters claims that their seeds are untreated. Yeah, saw it, and was like Oh, well that answers that question. The laurel
            Message 5 of 7 , Jul 15, 2007
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              As I stated in my previous post, Richters claims that their seeds are

              untreated.


              Yeah, saw it, and was like "Oh, well that answers that question."




              The laurel berries, on the other hand, are another matter. Have you

              looked at yours? Richters sends them in a germinated state - too late

              for eating! However, you can find edible ones here:


              Ack! No I haven't!




              http://www.pennherb.com/cgi-bin/herbstore.cgi/herb?;Laurel


              Useful! Thanks.


              JDM

              -----Original Message-----
              From: apollosfriend <JimKollens@...>
              To: Apicius@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 7:40 pm
              Subject: [Apicius] Re: Lovage leaf VEL Celery leaf; Lovage seed VEL Celery seed?

























              --- In Apicius@yahoogroups.com, jdm314@... wrote:

              >

              >

              > I have some lovage seeds and bay berries I bought from Richters.

              Obviously Richters intends them for planting, not eating. Do you think

              they'd be safe to eat, though, or will they be glazed with a delicate

              frosting of delicious fungicides?



              As I stated in my previous post, Richters claims that their seeds are

              untreated.



              The laurel berries, on the other hand, are another matter. Have you

              looked at yours? Richters sends them in a germinated state - too late

              for eating! However, you can find edible ones here:



              http://www.pennherb.com/cgi-bin/herbstore.cgi/herb?;Laurel

              Penn Herb Company On-Line Herb Store Catalog



              Jim Kollens, Apollo's friend

















              ________________________________________________________________________
              AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Kevin McDermott
              ... Dear Jim, Thanks for the information, as well as the great sources. I ve already ordered from each. You re MY friend, too....: ) Kevin
              Message 6 of 7 , Jul 15, 2007
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                > Jim Kollens, Apollo's friend

                Dear Jim,
                Thanks for the information, as well as the great sources. I've already ordered
                from each.

                You're MY friend, too....:>)

                Kevin
              • Lucia Clark
                Will let you know shortly. My lovage went to seed this year and it is chin high (to me) Lucia ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                Message 7 of 7 , Jul 15, 2007
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                  Will let you know shortly. My lovage went to seed this year and it is
                  chin high (to me)
                  Lucia



                  >. The question really is: if someone has had
                  >lovage seed, what do you think the taste difference is between it and celery
                  >seed?
                  >
                  >VALE
                  >COIVINIX
                  >
                  >



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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