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Re: [Apicius] Re: PANEM·ET·CIBVM·VERV·TRAN SFIXVM·VVLGO·bread and food on sticks....

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  • Linda Wills
    Don t forget your tunic, please. linda ... From: Correus To: Apicius@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2006 8:33:49 AM Subject: Re:
    Message 1 of 4 , Oct 29, 2006
      Don't forget your tunic, please.
      linda


      ----- Original Message ----
      From: Correus <correus@...>
      To: Apicius@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2006 8:33:49 AM
      Subject: Re: [Apicius] Re: PANEM�ET�CIBVM�VERV�TRANSFIXVM�VVLGO�bread and food on sticks....

      Hello everyone!!!!

      Thanks for the cites dealing with the military bread! Now I can go and try to get the books!!!!!!

      Didn't mean to sound curt the other day when I asked for them. Just was having a tough and hurried day.

      However, here is one for the thought process. What about fried mush type breads? Do you think the Romans, especially the legions, might have done this?

      BTW - The Pompeii exhibit is coming to the Mobile AL museum in Feb. there is a group of Roman re-enactors doing an event there for three days. one think they are planning is a Roman kitchen!!! I will packing up my spices and pans and going!!!!

      Larry a.k.a Correus

      Kevin McDermott <pncmcdermott@ comcast.net> wrote:
      SALVETE
      --- In Apicius@yahoogroups .com, "Kevin McDermott" <pncmcdermott@ ...>
      wrote:
      they may have used oboloi for baking bread. Poor
      > people may not even have baked their bread in an oven, but have simply
      > toasted the dough spitted on an obolos. The bread so prepared was called
      > obelias, and loaves of it, left on the spits, were carried in sacred processions
      > by obeliaphoroi. This method of preparing bread was used by soldiers in the
      > field. "

      Should anyone (particularly our living-history legionaries) wish to try their
      hand at making OBELIAS, here are some practical hints from the late 19th
      and early 20th centuries... "Nessmuks" recipe is probably closest to what we'd
      be dealing with historically. ..although the sugar is out, obviously. The
      "Jack-knife" recipe is chemically leavened--clearly a no-no--but the method of
      making dough in a bag--and the use of rendered pig-fat--is illuminating.

      If anyone tries this out--let us know how it works for you!

      From "Nessmuk" (George Washington Sears): Woodcraft and Camping, 1884
      I am afraid that I shall discount my credit on camp cooking when I admit
      that�if I must use fine flour�I prefer unleavened bread; whay my friend
      irreverently call "club bread"�it is baked on a veritable club, sassafras or
      black birch. This is how to make it: Cut a club two feet long and three inches
      thick at the broadest end; peel or shave off the bark smoothly, and sharpen
      the smaller end neatly. Then stick the sharpened end in the ground near the
      fire, leaning the broad end toward a bed of live coals, where it will get
      screeching hot. While it is heating, mix rather more than a half pint of best
      Minnesota flour with enough warm water to make a dough. Add a half
      teaspoonful of salt, and a teaspoonful of sugar, and mould and pull the dough
      until it becomes lively. Now, work it into a ribbon two inches wide and half an
      inch thick, wind the ribbon spirally around the broad end of the club, stick the
      latter in front of the fire so that the bread will bake evenly and quickly to a light
      brown, and turn frequently until done, which will be in about thirty minutes.
      When done take it from the fire, stand the club firmly upright, and pick the
      bread off in pieces as you want to eat. It will keep hot a long time, and one
      soon becomes fond of it.

      "Twisters" from Daniel Carter Beard: The Book of Camplore and Woodcraft,
      1920
      The twist is made of dough and rolled between the palms of the hands until it
      becomes a long thick rope. It is wrapped spirally around a dry stick, or one
      with bark on it. The coils should be close together but without touching each
      other. The stick is now rested in the forks of two uprights, or on two stones in
      front of the roasting fire, or over the hot colas of a pitfire. The long end of the
      stick on which the twist is coiled is used for a handle to turn the twist so that it
      may be nicely browned on all sides, or it may be set upright in front of the
      flames.

      "Twisters" from James Austin Wilder: Jack-knife Cookery, 1929
      Ingredients:
      1. One heaping fistful of flour
      2. One five-finger pinch of Baking powder
      3. One four-finger pinch of sugar
      4. One three-finger pinch of salt
      5. One two-finger gob of grease (fat, butter, lard, etc.)
      6. One or two fistfuls of water.

      Now, with a wooden paddle, which you will carve, on the spot, out of a piece
      of soft wood, make a small imitation of the Plug-Hat Hole in your bag of flour.
      Into this little pit put your ingredients in the order named above. When you
      come to grease (No. 5) mix it all up, using your hands to do this rather messy
      job thoroughly. Add water slowly which whill, when stirred by your wooden
      paddle, absorb your fistful of flour and the other ingredients. The trick is to
      avoid lumps. Knead it well and quickly. Mix these, all dry, together at home
      before you start on your trip, carried in a small bank-bag or canvas bag, if you
      want to lose half the fun. If not, do it on the spot.
      Now roll out your dough in a longish string, the size of a banana, and roll it on
      a sweet, green wood twig the size of your third finger, and sharpened at both
      ends. Sweet wood is determined by tasting it. Willow, for example, makes
      Kabobs and Twisters taste like quinine. Pine wood makes them reek of
      turpentine. Sometimes one can roast out htis bitterness in the fire. Green
      wood stands the heat without burning. Jab one end in the ground so that the
      "twister" is about two inches from the coals. Watch it! Twist the stick round and
      round, until the flour puffs up and acquires a bit of crust. Then four or five
      inches from the fire is enough (maybe) until your twister turns a lovely dark
      brown. Now, screw out the stick. Split your twister, toast the inside, it it needs
      it, and there's your bread to eat with your kabob, which has cooked at the
      same fire along with your twister.

      VALETE
      COIV�DERVMOD�F� PIST

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Correus
      LOL I will try not to! Linda Wills wrote: Don t forget your tunic, please. linda ... From: Correus To: Apicius@yahoogroups.com Sent:
      Message 2 of 4 , Oct 29, 2006
        LOL I will try not to!

        Linda Wills <lindawills2@...> wrote: Don't forget your tunic, please.
        linda


        ----- Original Message ----
        From: Correus
        To: Apicius@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2006 8:33:49 AM
        Subject: Re: [Apicius] Re: PANEM·ET·CIBVM·VERV·TRANSFIXVM·VVLGO·bread and food on sticks....

        Hello everyone!!!!

        Thanks for the cites dealing with the military bread! Now I can go and try to get the books!!!!!!

        Didn't mean to sound curt the other day when I asked for them. Just was having a tough and hurried day.

        However, here is one for the thought process. What about fried mush type breads? Do you think the Romans, especially the legions, might have done this?

        BTW - The Pompeii exhibit is coming to the Mobile AL museum in Feb. there is a group of Roman re-enactors doing an event there for three days. one think they are planning is a Roman kitchen!!! I will packing up my spices and pans and going!!!!

        Larry a.k.a Correus

        Kevin McDermott
        wrote:
        SALVETE
        --- In Apicius@yahoogroups .com, "Kevin McDermott"

        wrote:
        they may have used oboloi for baking bread. Poor
        > people may not even have baked their bread in an oven, but have simply
        > toasted the dough spitted on an obolos. The bread so prepared was called
        > obelias, and loaves of it, left on the spits, were carried in sacred processions
        > by obeliaphoroi. This method of preparing bread was used by soldiers in the
        > field. "

        Should anyone (particularly our living-history legionaries) wish to try their
        hand at making OBELIAS, here are some practical hints from the late 19th
        and early 20th centuries... "Nessmuks" recipe is probably closest to what we'd
        be dealing with historically. ..although the sugar is out, obviously. The
        "Jack-knife" recipe is chemically leavened--clearly a no-no--but the method of
        making dough in a bag--and the use of rendered pig-fat--is illuminating.

        If anyone tries this out--let us know how it works for you!

        From "Nessmuk" (George Washington Sears): Woodcraft and Camping, 1884
        I am afraid that I shall discount my credit on camp cooking when I admit
        that—if I must use fine flour—I prefer unleavened bread; whay my friend
        irreverently call "club bread"…it is baked on a veritable club, sassafras or
        black birch. This is how to make it: Cut a club two feet long and three inches
        thick at the broadest end; peel or shave off the bark smoothly, and sharpen
        the smaller end neatly. Then stick the sharpened end in the ground near the
        fire, leaning the broad end toward a bed of live coals, where it will get
        screeching hot. While it is heating, mix rather more than a half pint of best
        Minnesota flour with enough warm water to make a dough. Add a half
        teaspoonful of salt, and a teaspoonful of sugar, and mould and pull the dough
        until it becomes lively. Now, work it into a ribbon two inches wide and half an
        inch thick, wind the ribbon spirally around the broad end of the club, stick the
        latter in front of the fire so that the bread will bake evenly and quickly to a light
        brown, and turn frequently until done, which will be in about thirty minutes.
        When done take it from the fire, stand the club firmly upright, and pick the
        bread off in pieces as you want to eat. It will keep hot a long time, and one
        soon becomes fond of it.

        "Twisters" from Daniel Carter Beard: The Book of Camplore and Woodcraft,
        1920
        The twist is made of dough and rolled between the palms of the hands until it
        becomes a long thick rope. It is wrapped spirally around a dry stick, or one
        with bark on it. The coils should be close together but without touching each
        other. The stick is now rested in the forks of two uprights, or on two stones in
        front of the roasting fire, or over the hot colas of a pitfire. The long end of the
        stick on which the twist is coiled is used for a handle to turn the twist so that it
        may be nicely browned on all sides, or it may be set upright in front of the
        flames.

        "Twisters" from James Austin Wilder: Jack-knife Cookery, 1929
        Ingredients:
        1. One heaping fistful of flour
        2. One five-finger pinch of Baking powder
        3. One four-finger pinch of sugar
        4. One three-finger pinch of salt
        5. One two-finger gob of grease (fat, butter, lard, etc.)
        6. One or two fistfuls of water.

        Now, with a wooden paddle, which you will carve, on the spot, out of a piece
        of soft wood, make a small imitation of the Plug-Hat Hole in your bag of flour.
        Into this little pit put your ingredients in the order named above. When you
        come to grease (No. 5) mix it all up, using your hands to do this rather messy
        job thoroughly. Add water slowly which whill, when stirred by your wooden
        paddle, absorb your fistful of flour and the other ingredients. The trick is to
        avoid lumps. Knead it well and quickly. Mix these, all dry, together at home
        before you start on your trip, carried in a small bank-bag or canvas bag, if you
        want to lose half the fun. If not, do it on the spot.
        Now roll out your dough in a longish string, the size of a banana, and roll it on
        a sweet, green wood twig the size of your third finger, and sharpened at both
        ends. Sweet wood is determined by tasting it. Willow, for example, makes
        Kabobs and Twisters taste like quinine. Pine wood makes them reek of
        turpentine. Sometimes one can roast out htis bitterness in the fire. Green
        wood stands the heat without burning. Jab one end in the ground so that the
        "twister" is about two inches from the coals. Watch it! Twist the stick round and
        round, until the flour puffs up and acquires a bit of crust. Then four or five
        inches from the fire is enough (maybe) until your twister turns a lovely dark
        brown. Now, screw out the stick. Split your twister, toast the inside, it it needs
        it, and there's your bread to eat with your kabob, which has cooked at the
        same fire along with your twister.

        VALETE
        COIV·DERVMOD·F· PIST

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



        Post message: Apicius@yahoogroups.com
        Unsubscribe: Apicius-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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      • Linda Wills
        With the force, do or not do...there is no try . linda ... From: Correus To: Apicius@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2006
        Message 3 of 4 , Oct 29, 2006
          With the force, do or not do...there is no "try".
          linda


          ----- Original Message ----
          From: Correus <correus@...>
          To: Apicius@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2006 2:19:31 PM
          Subject: Re: [Apicius] Re: PANEM�ET�CIBVM�VERV�TRANSFIXVM�VVLGO�bread and food on sticks....

          LOL I will try not to!

          Linda Wills <lindawills2@ yahoo.com> wrote: Don't forget your tunic, please.
          linda

          ----- Original Message ----
          From: Correus
          To: Apicius@yahoogroups .com
          Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2006 8:33:49 AM
          Subject: Re: [Apicius] Re: PANEM�ET�CIBVM� VERV�TRANSFIXVM� VVLGO�bread and food on sticks....

          Hello everyone!!!!

          Thanks for the cites dealing with the military bread! Now I can go and try to get the books!!!!!!

          Didn't mean to sound curt the other day when I asked for them. Just was having a tough and hurried day.

          However, here is one for the thought process. What about fried mush type breads? Do you think the Romans, especially the legions, might have done this?

          BTW - The Pompeii exhibit is coming to the Mobile AL museum in Feb. there is a group of Roman re-enactors doing an event there for three days. one think they are planning is a Roman kitchen!!! I will packing up my spices and pans and going!!!!

          Larry a.k.a Correus

          Kevin McDermott
          wrote:
          SALVETE
          --- In Apicius@yahoogroups .com, "Kevin McDermott"

          wrote:
          they may have used oboloi for baking bread. Poor
          > people may not even have baked their bread in an oven, but have simply
          > toasted the dough spitted on an obolos. The bread so prepared was called
          > obelias, and loaves of it, left on the spits, were carried in sacred processions
          > by obeliaphoroi. This method of preparing bread was used by soldiers in the
          > field. "

          Should anyone (particularly our living-history legionaries) wish to try their
          hand at making OBELIAS, here are some practical hints from the late 19th
          and early 20th centuries... "Nessmuks" recipe is probably closest to what we'd
          be dealing with historically. ..although the sugar is out, obviously. The
          "Jack-knife" recipe is chemically leavened--clearly a no-no--but the method of
          making dough in a bag--and the use of rendered pig-fat--is illuminating.

          If anyone tries this out--let us know how it works for you!

          From "Nessmuk" (George Washington Sears): Woodcraft and Camping, 1884
          I am afraid that I shall discount my credit on camp cooking when I admit
          that�if I must use fine flour�I prefer unleavened bread; whay my friend
          irreverently call "club bread"�it is baked on a veritable club, sassafras or
          black birch. This is how to make it: Cut a club two feet long and three inches
          thick at the broadest end; peel or shave off the bark smoothly, and sharpen
          the smaller end neatly. Then stick the sharpened end in the ground near the
          fire, leaning the broad end toward a bed of live coals, where it will get
          screeching hot. While it is heating, mix rather more than a half pint of best
          Minnesota flour with enough warm water to make a dough. Add a half
          teaspoonful of salt, and a teaspoonful of sugar, and mould and pull the dough
          until it becomes lively. Now, work it into a ribbon two inches wide and half an
          inch thick, wind the ribbon spirally around the broad end of the club, stick the
          latter in front of the fire so that the bread will bake evenly and quickly to a light
          brown, and turn frequently until done, which will be in about thirty minutes.
          When done take it from the fire, stand the club firmly upright, and pick the
          bread off in pieces as you want to eat. It will keep hot a long time, and one
          soon becomes fond of it.

          "Twisters" from Daniel Carter Beard: The Book of Camplore and Woodcraft,
          1920
          The twist is made of dough and rolled between the palms of the hands until it
          becomes a long thick rope. It is wrapped spirally around a dry stick, or one
          with bark on it. The coils should be close together but without touching each
          other. The stick is now rested in the forks of two uprights, or on two stones in
          front of the roasting fire, or over the hot colas of a pitfire. The long end of the
          stick on which the twist is coiled is used for a handle to turn the twist so that it
          may be nicely browned on all sides, or it may be set upright in front of the
          flames.

          "Twisters" from James Austin Wilder: Jack-knife Cookery, 1929
          Ingredients:
          1. One heaping fistful of flour
          2. One five-finger pinch of Baking powder
          3. One four-finger pinch of sugar
          4. One three-finger pinch of salt
          5. One two-finger gob of grease (fat, butter, lard, etc.)
          6. One or two fistfuls of water.

          Now, with a wooden paddle, which you will carve, on the spot, out of a piece
          of soft wood, make a small imitation of the Plug-Hat Hole in your bag of flour.
          Into this little pit put your ingredients in the order named above. When you
          come to grease (No. 5) mix it all up, using your hands to do this rather messy
          job thoroughly. Add water slowly which whill, when stirred by your wooden
          paddle, absorb your fistful of flour and the other ingredients. The trick is to
          avoid lumps. Knead it well and quickly. Mix these, all dry, together at home
          before you start on your trip, carried in a small bank-bag or canvas bag, if you
          want to lose half the fun. If not, do it on the spot.
          Now roll out your dough in a longish string, the size of a banana, and roll it on
          a sweet, green wood twig the size of your third finger, and sharpened at both
          ends. Sweet wood is determined by tasting it. Willow, for example, makes
          Kabobs and Twisters taste like quinine. Pine wood makes them reek of
          turpentine. Sometimes one can roast out htis bitterness in the fire. Green
          wood stands the heat without burning. Jab one end in the ground so that the
          "twister" is about two inches from the coals. Watch it! Twist the stick round and
          round, until the flour puffs up and acquires a bit of crust. Then four or five
          inches from the fire is enough (maybe) until your twister turns a lovely dark
          brown. Now, screw out the stick. Split your twister, toast the inside, it it needs
          it, and there's your bread to eat with your kabob, which has cooked at the
          same fire along with your twister.

          VALETE
          COIV�DERVMOD�F� PIST

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          Post message: Apicius@yahoogroups .com
          Unsubscribe: Apicius-unsubscribe @yahoogroups. com
          List owner: Apicius-owner@ yahoogroups. com

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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Correus
          LOL Linda Wills wrote: With the force, do or not do...there is no try . linda ... From: Correus To: Apicius@yahoogroups.com Sent:
          Message 4 of 4 , Oct 29, 2006
            LOL

            Linda Wills <lindawills2@...> wrote: With the force, do or not do...there is no "try".
            linda


            ----- Original Message ----
            From: Correus
            To: Apicius@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2006 2:19:31 PM
            Subject: Re: [Apicius] Re: PANEM·ET·CIBVM·VERV·TRANSFIXVM·VVLGO·bread and food on sticks....

            LOL I will try not to!

            Linda Wills
            wrote: Don't forget your tunic, please.
            linda

            ----- Original Message ----
            From: Correus
            To: Apicius@yahoogroups .com
            Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2006 8:33:49 AM
            Subject: Re: [Apicius] Re: PANEM·ET·CIBVM· VERV·TRANSFIXVM· VVLGO·bread and food on sticks....

            Hello everyone!!!!

            Thanks for the cites dealing with the military bread! Now I can go and try to get the books!!!!!!

            Didn't mean to sound curt the other day when I asked for them. Just was having a tough and hurried day.

            However, here is one for the thought process. What about fried mush type breads? Do you think the Romans, especially the legions, might have done this?

            BTW - The Pompeii exhibit is coming to the Mobile AL museum in Feb. there is a group of Roman re-enactors doing an event there for three days. one think they are planning is a Roman kitchen!!! I will packing up my spices and pans and going!!!!

            Larry a.k.a Correus

            Kevin McDermott
            wrote:
            SALVETE
            --- In Apicius@yahoogroups .com, "Kevin McDermott"

            wrote:
            they may have used oboloi for baking bread. Poor
            > people may not even have baked their bread in an oven, but have simply
            > toasted the dough spitted on an obolos. The bread so prepared was called
            > obelias, and loaves of it, left on the spits, were carried in sacred processions
            > by obeliaphoroi. This method of preparing bread was used by soldiers in the
            > field. "

            Should anyone (particularly our living-history legionaries) wish to try their
            hand at making OBELIAS, here are some practical hints from the late 19th
            and early 20th centuries... "Nessmuks" recipe is probably closest to what we'd
            be dealing with historically. ..although the sugar is out, obviously. The
            "Jack-knife" recipe is chemically leavened--clearly a no-no--but the method of
            making dough in a bag--and the use of rendered pig-fat--is illuminating.

            If anyone tries this out--let us know how it works for you!

            From "Nessmuk" (George Washington Sears): Woodcraft and Camping, 1884
            I am afraid that I shall discount my credit on camp cooking when I admit
            that—if I must use fine flour—I prefer unleavened bread; whay my friend
            irreverently call "club bread"…it is baked on a veritable club, sassafras or
            black birch. This is how to make it: Cut a club two feet long and three inches
            thick at the broadest end; peel or shave off the bark smoothly, and sharpen
            the smaller end neatly. Then stick the sharpened end in the ground near the
            fire, leaning the broad end toward a bed of live coals, where it will get
            screeching hot. While it is heating, mix rather more than a half pint of best
            Minnesota flour with enough warm water to make a dough. Add a half
            teaspoonful of salt, and a teaspoonful of sugar, and mould and pull the dough
            until it becomes lively. Now, work it into a ribbon two inches wide and half an
            inch thick, wind the ribbon spirally around the broad end of the club, stick the
            latter in front of the fire so that the bread will bake evenly and quickly to a light
            brown, and turn frequently until done, which will be in about thirty minutes.
            When done take it from the fire, stand the club firmly upright, and pick the
            bread off in pieces as you want to eat. It will keep hot a long time, and one
            soon becomes fond of it.

            "Twisters" from Daniel Carter Beard: The Book of Camplore and Woodcraft,
            1920
            The twist is made of dough and rolled between the palms of the hands until it
            becomes a long thick rope. It is wrapped spirally around a dry stick, or one
            with bark on it. The coils should be close together but without touching each
            other. The stick is now rested in the forks of two uprights, or on two stones in
            front of the roasting fire, or over the hot colas of a pitfire. The long end of the
            stick on which the twist is coiled is used for a handle to turn the twist so that it
            may be nicely browned on all sides, or it may be set upright in front of the
            flames.

            "Twisters" from James Austin Wilder: Jack-knife Cookery, 1929
            Ingredients:
            1. One heaping fistful of flour
            2. One five-finger pinch of Baking powder
            3. One four-finger pinch of sugar
            4. One three-finger pinch of salt
            5. One two-finger gob of grease (fat, butter, lard, etc.)
            6. One or two fistfuls of water.

            Now, with a wooden paddle, which you will carve, on the spot, out of a piece
            of soft wood, make a small imitation of the Plug-Hat Hole in your bag of flour.
            Into this little pit put your ingredients in the order named above. When you
            come to grease (No. 5) mix it all up, using your hands to do this rather messy
            job thoroughly. Add water slowly which whill, when stirred by your wooden
            paddle, absorb your fistful of flour and the other ingredients. The trick is to
            avoid lumps. Knead it well and quickly. Mix these, all dry, together at home
            before you start on your trip, carried in a small bank-bag or canvas bag, if you
            want to lose half the fun. If not, do it on the spot.
            Now roll out your dough in a longish string, the size of a banana, and roll it on
            a sweet, green wood twig the size of your third finger, and sharpened at both
            ends. Sweet wood is determined by tasting it. Willow, for example, makes
            Kabobs and Twisters taste like quinine. Pine wood makes them reek of
            turpentine. Sometimes one can roast out htis bitterness in the fire. Green
            wood stands the heat without burning. Jab one end in the ground so that the
            "twister" is about two inches from the coals. Watch it! Twist the stick round and
            round, until the flour puffs up and acquires a bit of crust. Then four or five
            inches from the fire is enough (maybe) until your twister turns a lovely dark
            brown. Now, screw out the stick. Split your twister, toast the inside, it it needs
            it, and there's your bread to eat with your kabob, which has cooked at the
            same fire along with your twister.

            VALETE
            COIV·DERVMOD·F· PIST

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            Post message: Apicius@yahoogroups .com
            Unsubscribe: Apicius-unsubscribe @yahoogroups. com
            List owner: Apicius-owner@ yahoogroups. com

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